Second-rate citizens like me.

AlienatedGoat · October 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Free crown crates added a lot of special mounts to those that didn't buy them

A lot
Special

Pick one

No really, the drop rate on those things is less than 1% each.
Getting a mount from crates these days is an exception, not the rule.

Appleblade · October 2017

Don't feel bad. I bought both pony pets and their idle animations are bugged out.

Appleblade · October 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

Glad to help. Those bags are an eyesore to be sure, .

Depends. I leave the bags visible for my master crafter because role play.

ArchMikem · October 2017

If youre buying stuff then youre not a freeloader. Dude you even had to buy the game itself in the first place.

All this means is you have more self control than most, how is that not a compliment?

VaranisArano · October 2017

Appleblade wrote: »

Don't feel bad. I bought both pony pets and their idle animations are bugged out.

At least ZOS did say they were working on a fix in the bug reports forum.

srfrogg23 · October 2017

Vimora wrote: »

I feel like a second-rate citizen of Tamriel, because I don't sport any of the very fancy store-bought fluff virtually e v e r y b o d y in the game is having. Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins... you name it, people are full of this ***. I can't remember the last time I saw a guy riding a regular chestnut steed like mine. There is always something shiney, something flashy. Regular guys simply became extinct.

So... does my habit of just paying for actual playable content make me a freeloader? I buy all the DLCs and I play them, but I never buy anything else from the store. To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff that's in there is quite annoying, it's making the game look like an amusement park, which is what I really hated about other popular MMOs.

If they removed the store entirely and just sold actual DLCs and Chapters, would that keep the game running or is the ridiculous and annoying fluff really necessary to make it profitable?

Zenimax took the al a carte menu approach. Buy what you want. Ignore the rest. It’s a B2P game. Everyone that has a copy has supported the game to some extent.

LadyNalcarya · October 2017

Well you can get some fancy achievement skin, add Nordic towel and Cadwell's helmet and you will look super flashy.

And I dont think that not using cosmetics makes you a "second class" player. I buy a lot of cosmetics, but still use basic Imperial horse as my main's mount... Hey, it seems to be more rare than some of the flashy mounts.

P.S. Many people (mysef included) buy ESO+ instead of dlc packs... Crafting bag is just too good. And ESO+ comes with 1500 crowns per month and ability to dye costumes to look flashy. XD

Balamoor · October 2017

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Yeah, perhaps they will add some Scrolls of Protection from Shaming into scam crates, so that lucky whales could ride through mobs of second-rate citizens on their APEX mounts, unscathed by ridicule.

Or..... they can start account banning those who do it before some nut case takes it too far and a lawsuit happens. it sorta is in ZoS best interest, the harassment is a tactic to try and prevent people from buying their products so they will eliminate them, ZoS has an ethical duty to at least make an attempt to prevent harassment.

We have seen things like this blow up in developers faces before on the developer side, On the end user side the fallout will be much much worse. it's better to address it now instead of when your'e trying to clean up the mess, and everyone and their brother is piling onto the Class actions.

Rahotu · October 2017

Vimora wrote: »

I feel like a second-rate citizen of Tamriel, because I don't sport any of the very fancy store-bought fluff virtually e v e r y b o d y in the game is having. Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins... you name it, people are full of this ***. I can't remember the last time I saw a guy riding a regular chestnut steed like mine. There is always something shiney, something flashy. Regular guys simply became extinct.

So... does my habit of just paying for actual playable content make me a freeloader? I buy all the DLCs and I play them, but I never buy anything else from the store. To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff that's in there is quite annoying, it's making the game look like an amusement park, which is what I really hated about other popular MMOs.

If they removed the store entirely and just sold actual DLCs and Chapters, would that keep the game running or is the ridiculous and annoying fluff really necessary to make it profitable?

you're not 2nd rate your just a normal person,mmo's are full of normal people pretending they are special...respect for your ability to just remain yourself

Rahotu · October 2017

Gan Xing wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

I feel like a second-rate citizen of Tamriel, because I don't sport any of the very fancy store-bought fluff virtually e v e r y b o d y in the game is having. Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins... you name it, people are full of this ***. I can't remember the last time I saw a guy riding a regular chestnut steed like mine. There is always something shiney, something flashy. Regular guys simply became extinct.

So... does my habit of just paying for actual playable content make me a freeloader? I buy all the DLCs and I play them, but I never buy anything else from the store. To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff that's in there is quite annoying, it's making the game look like an amusement park, which is what I really hated about other popular MMOs.

If they removed the store entirely and just sold actual DLCs and Chapters, would that keep the game running or is the ridiculous and annoying fluff really necessary to make it profitable?

If there is a market, why not utilize it? ESO has to stay relatively competative with all the other MMOs out there. Unfortunately that means they need to milk all the money they can in any angle they can. Crown store, subscription, and initial purchases are the easiest way to do that without P2W mechanics. (I know the Warden is behind a pay wall, but so is the Imperial race, and at the moment, both are not OP, so it isn't really P2W)

I was cruising through death valley the other day and saw rich lambert trying to hand-milk a rock,i wish i'd taken a photo to post but sadly he grabbed my phone and started pulling on that too....

Belyar · October 2017

Vimora wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Inferiority complex much OP ? hehe, who cares, just play your game the way you want, and let others play how they want.

lol Inferior to whom? The soft-witted brat who can't keep his pocket money for a mere 5 minutes before he rushes to buy anything and everything ZOS randomly throws into the store? Did you know when dark elves say s'wit, they mean soft-witted? I guess they are just a people with special insight.

Yep, definitely inferiority complex.

Enemoriana · October 2017

I don't understand what are you really against.

Crown store items, because "They have, and I can't"? It's just envy.
Crown store items, because "How can they spend money on this?!"? But it's their money, not yours, and it's their decision, what to buy to become a little happier - glowing mount in MMO, huge bucket of ice cream or pink plush unicorn.
Everything bright and animated? But it's not only items from store. You can be annoyingly bright and flashy without spending even single crown.

Have 8 not "golden" mounts, including dwarven bear, about 40 crown appearance items. Main character still use mainly black horse he bought in good old time when game was just released; costume colors are dark or calm, "realistic". Don't think it makes me better then those with glowing things.
Don't think it makes you, also.

Huyen · October 2017

If the crownstore means ESO wont be p2w, I can only hope it stays there for a long long time.

method__01 · October 2017

fancy costumes and mounts dont win battles

SBC · October 2017

method__01 wrote: »

fancy costumes and mounts dont win battles

But damn do I look good as I fall

method__01 · October 2017

jlmecub14a_ESO wrote: »

method__01 wrote: »

fancy costumes and mounts dont win battles

But damn do I look good as I fall

loll true

SisterGoat · October 2017

There's a lot of stuff we don't need that we buy, just cuz it's cool to look at. Look at it this way: people also buy expensive paintings for their house even though they don't need them because it's nice to look at compared to a blank wall.

Vimora · October 2017

Enemoriana wrote: »

I don't understand what are you really against.

Crown store items, because "They have, and I can't"? It's just envy.
Crown store items, because "How can they spend money on this?!"? But it's their money, not yours, and it's their decision, what to buy to become a little happier - glowing mount in MMO, huge bucket of ice cream or pink plush unicorn.
Everything bright and animated? But it's not only items from store. You can be annoyingly bright and flashy without spending even single crown.

Have 8 not "golden" mounts, including dwarven bear, about 40 crown appearance items. Main character still use mainly black horse he bought in good old time when game was just released; costume colors are dark or calm, "realistic". Don't think it makes me better then those with glowing things.
Don't think it makes you, also.

I am against obnoxious, distasteful things that don't fit the theme and lore of the game. There is so much they could do fluff-wise that would be perfect for the ES universe, but I'm afraid we are not going in that direction. I'm afraid it's not long before people run around with unbrellas for weapons and horse masks with laser eyes. I'm honestly not sure how I could be any clearer on what I'm really against.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2017

@Vimora , are you aware of the existence of single-player games, and coop-games ? Playing those instead of playing MMOs is a great way to avoid "other players" - who seem to be an endless source of dissatisfaction for you.

I have a couple of crown store mounts but I run most times with a standard, base-game horse. Simply because I think those horses look nice. It never crossed my mind that some people might think anything of it. And if they do, frankly, I don't care.

GreenhaloX · October 2017

Vimora wrote: »

I feel like a second-rate citizen of Tamriel, because I don't sport any of the very fancy store-bought fluff virtually e v e r y b o d y in the game is having. Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins... you name it, people are full of this ***. I can't remember the last time I saw a guy riding a regular chestnut steed like mine. There is always something shiney, something flashy. Regular guys simply became extinct.

So... does my habit of just paying for actual playable content make me a freeloader? I buy all the DLCs and I play them, but I never buy anything else from the store. To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff that's in there is quite annoying, it's making the game look like an amusement park, which is what I really hated about other popular MMOs.

If they removed the store entirely and just sold actual DLCs and Chapters, would that keep the game running or is the ridiculous and annoying fluff really necessary to make it profitable?

Ha ha.. second-rate citizen, nahh.. you shouldn't feel like that. Good for them; those peeps burning real money to get enough crowns to splurge on those crown store items and supporting Zen's money-making, profits enhancing venues. Going on two years now, and I am still galloping around with my nightmare mount which the crowns I got was from 2 months worth of ESO plus. Yeah, no shiny, glowing, skinish looking things for me, and I feel fine.

TelvanniWizard · October 2017

You know, when I see somebody whose apparel-mount-cosmetics arrangement isn´t even a little bit lore friendly:

Then I just ignore them, and continue my travels. But, oh my!, the things I´ve seen...

VaranisArano · October 2017

Vimora wrote: »

I am against obnoxious, distasteful things that don't fit the theme and lore of the game. There is so much they could do fluff-wise that would be perfect for the ES universe, but I'm afraid we are not going in that direction. I'm afraid it's not long before people run around with unbrellas for weapons and horse masks with laser eyes. I'm honestly not sure how I could be any clearer on what I'm really against.

For all the Skyrim was a nice, staid, grungy medieval norse-like land, the Elder Scrolls universe is not without its own obnoxious, distateful, flashy items.

Start with Morrowind, where the Dunmer wear robes with bugs on them! And there are all sorts of costumes that are ridiculously flashy and make you wonder about that vaunted Dunmer fashion sense. This is also the game that ends with you

destroying the heart of a god that was powering a giant robot.

Oblivion had ballet dancing spriggans. Man, I loved those ballet dancing spriggans. Also, anyone complaining about armor colors forgets the bright poison-green glass armor in Oblivion. I modded myself about 6 different recolors of glass armor because I loved the style but hated the original color.

So is the crown store filled with flashy stuff? Yeah, but by and large all of it is stuff that exists in game and is not out of line with what you would expect a skilled mage to be able to create. Maybe that makes me an apologist for ZOS. The more likely explanation is that I've seen so many Skyrim mods that I see a clear difference between flashy and not-lore-friendly.

DPShiro · October 2017

MissBizz wrote: »

"Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins..."

You know you can get pets and skins in game too right?

This^

Doctordarkspawn · October 2017

Gan Xing wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

I feel like a second-rate citizen of Tamriel, because I don't sport any of the very fancy store-bought fluff virtually e v e r y b o d y in the game is having. Glowing mounts, special pets, ridiculous skins... you name it, people are full of this ***. I can't remember the last time I saw a guy riding a regular chestnut steed like mine. There is always something shiney, something flashy. Regular guys simply became extinct.

So... does my habit of just paying for actual playable content make me a freeloader? I buy all the DLCs and I play them, but I never buy anything else from the store. To be perfectly honest, a lot of the stuff that's in there is quite annoying, it's making the game look like an amusement park, which is what I really hated about other popular MMOs.

If they removed the store entirely and just sold actual DLCs and Chapters, would that keep the game running or is the ridiculous and annoying fluff really necessary to make it profitable?

If there is a market, why not utilize it? ESO has to stay relatively competative with all the other MMOs out there. Unfortunately that means they need to milk all the money they can in any angle they can. Crown store, subscription, and initial purchases are the easiest way to do that without P2W mechanics. (I know the Warden is behind a pay wall, but so is the Imperial race, and at the moment, both are not OP, so it isn't really P2W)

"Have" to? No.

Wanted to? Probably.

There is no problem with ZOS tapping a market. How they choose to do it (IE, Scam crates, Artificial limit of supply, ect) is what is what I have a problem with.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

This thread also highlights a very real problem that I have been discussing with the mods and Devs for months.

Shaming for buying crown crates and spending extra on items the company provides, I have had friends literally bullied out of the game and followed into the real world for the high crime of riding a APEX mount. The way it is currently being handled is ignoring the issue, I hope that enough people will actually speak to the Mods and Devs so they will have to listen.

@Zos: Don't provide your customers with a service they pay you extra for then let them walk a gauntlet of Harassers just for further supporting the game.

Iv'e spoken to @Gina and I hope to Speak to @Matt at the next PAX should he show up.

To preface: I am not going to condone harassment. It's horrible.

That said. @Balamoor you raise a good point when you define ZOS's default response: Complete and total radio silence.

This is on more than just this. But it's a problem. I'd like to hear the thought process behind the artificial limited supply act, I'd like to understand much. But, they wont. Why? Opening a diologue inclines that they are open to change, they are not.

So. I do not expect them to open a any sort of dialogue. ZOS is not willing to discuss these practices, you accept them as is, or you do not participate. The problem, with trying to expect protection from ZOS over this, is what you feel was never the concern. You bought the product. That is the bottom line and the priority.

You and I have had our disagreements in the past, and you've made it very clear you think I am part of an organized conspiracy, so feel free to take this however the hell you like. But the fact you're friends have been harassed over how they choose to spend they're money is horrible. And that can be taken on it's own. I may disagree with it, vehemently and publicly, but repeated harassment? It sickens me.

TLDR: Do not expect to get anything from ZOS. They wont weigh in, because it'd either A, make them responsible for something they cannot/will not regulate, or B, open them up to a discussion on certain buisness practices they do not wish to have. Horrible, but there it is.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Have" to? No.
Wanted to? Probably.

Unfortunately they HAVE TO. It's not an option.
They're not independent and they rely heavily on investors' good will. Investors are also a market and they must be competitive on that market.
If you're an independant studio you can declare yourself happy with, say, 10% profit margin. But if you're on the investors' market and all other companies there offer 12% ROI (return on investment) then you have to increase your margin, else you won't get any investors.
Companies aren't that free to do what they want...

Doctordarkspawn · October 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Have" to? No.
Wanted to? Probably.

Unfortunately they HAVE TO. It's not an option.
They're not independent and they rely heavily on investors' good will. Investors are also a market and they must be competitive on that market.
If you're an independant studio you can declare yourself happy with, say, 10% profit margin. But if you're on the investors' market and all other companies there offer 12% ROI (return on investment) then you have to increase your margin, else you won't get any investors.
Companies aren't that free to do what they want...

This is likely true. But without access to they're books, and knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, I dont know and cannot make a statement more then I allready have. But I stand by the above quote, because I dont think they -have- to do this. There's better ways to make profit. Some of them even more stable than you'd think.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Have" to? No.
Wanted to? Probably.

Unfortunately they HAVE TO. It's not an option.
They're not independent and they rely heavily on investors' good will. Investors are also a market and they must be competitive on that market.
If you're an independant studio you can declare yourself happy with, say, 10% profit margin. But if you're on the investors' market and all other companies there offer 12% ROI (return on investment) then you have to increase your margin, else you won't get any investors.
Companies aren't that free to do what they want...

This is likely true. But without access to they're books, and knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, I dont know and cannot make a statement more then I allready have. But I stand by the above quote, because I dont think they -have- to do this. There's better ways to make profit. Some of them even more stable than you'd think.

Sure. My point was only about the fact that they're not free to decide what an "OK" profit is, they're bound to optimize every bit they can (what we here call "milking"). As to *how* they do this, that's another topic and debate...

But... putting things in perspective... a friend of mine lured me into trying The Secret World Legend. It's an MMO that was re-launched as a F2P game earlier this year. It truly is an amazing game. BUT... 90% of the loot crates you get... you need a key to open ! Keys only available for real cash... and while it is true that you *can* progress in the game without spending a dime, it will take you 3 to 6 times MORE time to do so as if you did spend some bucks on it.

So yeah... as compared to that, ZOS is behaving quite ethically, imho. The crown store is being kept strictly separate from the game itself, and it's fairly easy to just ignore crown crates, special offer, time limited offers and whatever else, and just go on your merry way...

Doctordarkspawn · October 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

"Have" to? No.
Wanted to? Probably.

Unfortunately they HAVE TO. It's not an option.
They're not independent and they rely heavily on investors' good will. Investors are also a market and they must be competitive on that market.
If you're an independant studio you can declare yourself happy with, say, 10% profit margin. But if you're on the investors' market and all other companies there offer 12% ROI (return on investment) then you have to increase your margin, else you won't get any investors.
Companies aren't that free to do what they want...

This is likely true. But without access to they're books, and knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, I dont know and cannot make a statement more then I allready have. But I stand by the above quote, because I dont think they -have- to do this. There's better ways to make profit. Some of them even more stable than you'd think.

Sure. My point was only about the fact that they're not free to decide what an "OK" profit is, they're bound to optimize every bit they can (what we here call "milking"). As to *how* they do this, that's another topic and debate...

But... putting things in perspective... a friend of mine lured me into trying The Secret World Legend. It's an MMO that was re-launched as a F2P game earlier this year. It truly is an amazing game. BUT... 90% of the loot crates you get... you need a key to open ! Keys only available for real cash... and while it is true that you *can* progress in the game without spending a dime, it will take you 3 to 6 times MORE time to do so as if you did spend some bucks on it.

So yeah... as compared to that, ZOS is behaving quite ethically, imho. The crown store is being kept strictly separate from the game itself, and it's fairly easy to just ignore crown crates, special offer, time limited offers and whatever else, and just go on your merry way...

Meanwhile, development on the content takes a backseat.

We'll just have to disagree on this one, I cannot believe it does not impact on the game more than your leting on.

kyle.wilson · October 2017

Ulo wrote: »

The bags that appear on the side of the default mount as you level your carrying capacity skill always bothered me. Strange that they don't show on crown store mounts but I do prefer it much more.

There is a option in the settings to turn the individual horse upgrade apperance changes.
Ive usually got it turned on for the bags, and if using the camel the armor.