Also Know that there wouldn't be such hate for this "SKILL" if people didn't boot people from groups in PVE because they don't do it as good.

So...not so much trying to have a meaningfull discussion. Just shouting from your soapbox?

The fact is simply that it's a way to get more dps. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant. If people get kicked from groups for not doing it, it's because the group is trying to get a competitive score, which means it's members have to do everything other competing teams are doing that gets them more dps and a faster completion time.

Let's take your complaints that it's a broken element of poor animation coding that the devs just gave up on as given. This doesn't change the situation at all for the people playing the game. You don't get consolation points for refusing to do it. Either do it and compete, or don't and don't compete.

Do you expect the devs to listen to you calling them incompetent and say "Hey, he's got a point. Let's actually knuckle down and fix this."?

...or did you just feel like venting? I guess it can be thereputic, so....there there.

You don't have to like it, but it isn't going anywhere. And if you arent animation canceling buffs and attacks in a heated PvP fight you are going to lose to someone who is.

Thats the facts. No point in posting a thread complaining about it.

Manami wrote: »

Know that it is a cheap and broken tactic to use.

Know that it is only "Okay" by the Developers because they failed and cannot fix it. (Which any competent team could -coughFFXIV)

Know defending it only makes you look like a child defending their toy from someone who would take away their only way to win in PVP.

Know that replying to this is only gonna make you look like a fool and give me entertainment as you prove my above statement.

Only thing u need to know is =
Ani cancel = Isolate noobs and Top tier since 2014.

My biggest issue with Ani canceling is that is not fair/ballanced across all skills/classes/builds. If this unintended feature is going to be a part of the game then they need to balance the DPS / HPS with AC in mind.

Certain skills have have high dps but even more DPS can be squeezed out if the skill can be Ani Canceled. So lets say Skill Z can be used 5 times in 10 seconds for X dps but because the skill can be Ani Canceled you can actually use skill X 9 times in 10 seconds... Where as a Templars Jabs cannot be Ani Canceled to speed up the DPS (you will always only be able to use Jabs an X amount of times in 10 seconds and not X plus AC). I honestly don't think Zos takes AC into consideration when they try to balance the game.... But they should if they are not going to fix AC.

I am basically a noob and may be wrong with my thinking so educate me if I am wrong.

How exactly is this supposed to be fixed? The problem here is that if you make it so that every animation has to play out that you couldn't for example dodge or block at the right time because your spell is still going. They would have to redo the entire combat system to have a game where this would work. Light attacks would have to go entirely, and most skills be changed to channeled attacks, enemies would need longer attack animations so you could react in time etc. I think that's just too much work.

Hammy01 wrote: »

My biggest issue with Ani canceling is that is not fair/ballanced across all skills/classes/builds. If this unintended feature is going to be a part of the game then they need to balance the DPS / HPS with AC in mind.

Certain skills have have high dps but even more DPS can be squeezed out if the skill can be Ani Canceled. So lets say Skill Z can be used 5 times in 10 seconds for X dps but because the skill can be Ani Canceled you can actually use skill X 9 times in 10 seconds... Where as a Templars Jabs cannot be Ani Canceled to speed up the DPS (you will always only be able to use Jabs an X amount of times in 10 seconds and not X plus AC). I honestly don't think Zos takes AC into consideration when they try to balance the game.... But they should if they are not going to fix AC.

I am basically a noob and may be wrong with my thinking so educate me if I am wrong.

U r right and wrong

The time and dps u gain by ac is far lower, than ppl who cant do it want u to believe. Average its maybe 1 more cast over 100 secs.
The important thing about it is more or less playstyle. To know what animation to cancel how (blockcancel, la-cancel, ha-clipping, barswap) In your example, jabs cant be canceled, true, but jabs can clip heavy attacks. Thats imo the "easiest" ac u can do: Keep left mouse button pressed -> press jabs button everytime u hear impact sound. heavys charge up while u r still jabsing and will clip a tiny microsecond of the animation. U aint much faster than when u would go heavy attack -> jabs -> heavy attack -> jabs, it is superiour to jabs->jabs->jabs tho, because among other things u regain resources (works the same for flurry). (That goes for long fights in pve tho, no expert for pvp, tho i'd say for burst its much better to spam jabs and hope your target runs out of hp before u run out of stam.)
Similar -> la-canceling on your bowbar -> u build up hawkeye(?) stacks. U r better off going la -> skill -> la -> skill ... than just skill -> skill -> skill, alot actually as u also proc weaponenchants.
Under the line: use light attacks between your skills.Use heavy attacks during "channelled" abilities. Use sth u can swapcancel before barswap (e.g. caltrops/hail and the likes). -> try to go thru it faster, the canceling will happen on its own.
For the pure dmg part, your dps might go up for 5, maybe 10%. Offering better sustain and better rotation by better uptimes will do slightly more. But it is far from magically increasing your dps from 10k to 50k.

Turelus wrote: »

I have no issues with animation cancelling but, the game should NEVER be balanced around it.

All the games content should be achievable and playable by people who don't cancel, with those who do getting the advantage of leaderboards and fast clears. I shouldn't have to be a member of top x% of players to complete veteran trials or get speed run achievements.

For PvP it's clearly harder as players can't be balanced as easy as NPC's.

Now I don't agree with that. I'm no PVE-er - and have never even attempted a trial (and I'm ok with that because I don't have the skillset for it so shouldn't be able to), but to get speed-run achievements in veteran trials.., well isn't that one of the hardest achievements to get?

Surely is *should* only be possible for the most accomplished players - otherwise, what is there to aspire to? Now if it was a case of excluding content based on skill-level (as opposed to achievements), I'd be more sympathetic - but not much, to be honest.
I'm an old-school gamer, where completing a game was never expected, and getting to the end was always based on skill, dedication and a bit of luck - not everybody did it - not by a long way.
Plus from a developer perspective - if its too easy to get to the end (and by too easy, I mean available for everyone regardless of skill) - then the devs will NEVER be able to keep up with the demand for new content.

I mean, I've started developing my own games - and I'd be devastated if the game I just spend the last 3 months working on was finished by my son in 5 minutes. To me, that game would be a failure.

I've always thought the best, most engaging games were those which have depth in their mechanics, take time to learn and even longer to master. You definitely get more out of them in the long-run. And we all want to enjoy the game for a long time, don't we?

Biro123 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I have no issues with animation cancelling but, the game should NEVER be balanced around it.

All the games content should be achievable and playable by people who don't cancel, with those who do getting the advantage of leaderboards and fast clears. I shouldn't have to be a member of top x% of players to complete veteran trials or get speed run achievements.

For PvP it's clearly harder as players can't be balanced as easy as NPC's.

Now I don't agree with that. I'm no PVE-er - and have never even attempted a trial (and I'm ok with that because I don't have the skillset for it so shouldn't be able to), but to get speed-run achievements in veteran trials.., well isn't that one of the hardest achievements to get?

Surely is *should* only be possible for the most accomplished players - otherwise, what is there to aspire to? Now if it was a case of excluding content based on skill-level (as opposed to achievements), I'd be more sympathetic - but not much, to be honest.
?

The problem is if you're saying only people who can animation cancel can be accomplished players you're saying that it's a core mechanic of the game.

In which case it needs to have mechanics explained by ZOS and everything has to be balanced around it. This also instantly pushes out anyone with physical disabilities.

The most accomplished players have leaderboards (which grant additional rewards), world first and plenty more to show they're the best.

dpencil1 wrote: »

So...not so much trying to have a meaningfull discussion. Just shouting from your soapbox?

The fact is simply that it's a way to get more dps. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant. If people get kicked from groups for not doing it, it's because the group is trying to get a competitive score, which means it's members have to do everything other competing teams are doing that gets them more dps and a faster completion time.

Let's take your complaints that it's a broken element of poor animation coding that the devs just gave up on as given. This doesn't change the situation at all for the people playing the game. You don't get consolation points for refusing to do it. Either do it and compete, or don't and don't compete.

Do you expect the devs to listen to you calling them incompetent and say "Hey, he's got a point. Let's actually knuckle down and fix this."?

...or did you just feel like venting? I guess it can be thereputic, so....there there.

It is a fact some skills cannot be AC'd while other can. So it is something that is not intended and therefore something that should be fixed. Imagine all the 'pro' players that only can do the damage of the 'regular' players, I think it would be fun to watch and listen to

Manami wrote: »

Also Know that there wouldn't be such hate for this "SKILL" if people didn't boot people from groups in PVE because they don't do it as good.