THIS GAME IS HORRIBLE FOR NOOBS, better tutorials that ZOS should implement?

Hanzus · October 2017

oops...

Riejael · October 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

I completely agree that youtube and other players are far better tutorials, there is no doubt. On the other hand, there is no data on exactly how many people just do not have fun within their first 10 or 20 hours of the game and drop it entirely... There are many people who complain about them not figuring out the most basic of things until much later on in the game due to other players advice or youtube videos. The fact is there is no harm in making a better, more up to date, tutorial system... The argument of "you should have watched a youtube video on how to play" does not really fit logic in my opinion... The game should explain many basic things much better then it currently does...

Its been this way since the days of Everquest in 1999. Back then players assembled binders of pertinent info, since technology wasn't so great on the internet just yet and download speeds of 33kb/s were still common.

MMORPGs have always had an significant amount of information outside the game. Those players who play their first 10-20hrs and get fed up and leave are not MMORPG players. Nothing can be done to get them back, to keep them, or to adjust for them.

MMORPGs are for MMORPG players. Skyrim is for the more casual player who doesn't need outside info to enjoy the game. This isn't Elder Scrolls VI. Its ESO. The only similarity between it and other ES games is the franchise. Its like the difference between Everquest 2 and Champions of Norrath or World of Warcraft and Warcraft III, or even Final Fantasy XI/XIV and I-X, XII, XIII, and XV.

MMORPG players tend to like browsing outside the box to find the best tactic, best build, and crunching numbers to add their own take and methods. If you play inside harder content than quests and dolmens, 60% of that gameplay is spent planning, 30% acquiring, and 10% execution. We like it that way.

Slick_007 · October 2017

and yet all the noobs hear in zones is dolmen group repeatedly. by far the worst thing they can do.

Kamatsu · October 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

However, tutorials on the main part are the way forward. They need to be more precise and offer more than a 2H sword as a weapon when you start a new char which is all you are given currently. Should be a range from 1hs, 2h, bow, staff etc.

Morrowind tutorial area actually has all the weapons available to the player before any combat happens, as well as enough armor pieces to unlock all 3 armor lines. The problem is... if the player only follows the directions of the quest they will not come across these armor pieces and/or weapons.

The weapons and armor pieces are located down the stairs in the building where you get the armor uniform & sword, and the locked building that you do not have to enter. They are there, but assume the player will explore every building and area to find them... whereas a lot of people will only do what the quest tells them to do, so will miss all these items.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2017

I think I've seen this complaint on every MMO forum I've ever read. Most of the combat concepts/metaconcepts/tactics/etc are things the top players & theorycrafters discovered by time & experimentation (rotations, animation canceling, builds, whatever). Dev tutorials will never manage this stuff. Which is likely why most advice threads for MMO noobs are "go to <site> and do your homework".

(Which always annoys me, I play games for fun, not to 'do homework' and 'study'. Which is why I'll never be a good player. Not because I'm a 'stupid noob', but because I don't find that fun so I don't put the effort in. I'm aware of the concepts, but I just don't care enough to go beyond the basics. But don't worry, I also don't join pug/group content, because I know I'd drag the group down.

)

Motherball · October 2017

A lot of people hate or skip tutorials. The information is out there for people who desire it. Personally, I would prefer if development resources were allocated elsewhere.

Chronicburn · October 2017

They don't explain anything ... how you have to choose magika or stamina is a big one ... also how bout letting us know we need to get a mount and start leveling right away because it's gonna take 6 months or start research right away since that will take half a lifetime?
Also how about telling us what skill not to bother getting because there is a nerf planned in 6 months?

Also how about mentioning there is NO AUCTION HOUSE so a new player doesn't have to look for it half a day and then sign up for forums and post just to get the bad news here!

UnseenCat · October 2017

Truthfully, the developers can document the mechanics of a game, but traditionally the players' community tends to do a better job of exploring the game's limits and subtleties. The best guides and breakdowns for MMOs are usually community-based. It's not even limited to just MMOs -- it happens with singleplayer games too.

Shadzilla · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

I completely agree that youtube and other players are far better tutorials, there is no doubt. On the other hand, there is no data on exactly how many people just do not have fun within their first 10 or 20 hours of the game and drop it entirely... There are many people who complain about them not figuring out the most basic of things until much later on in the game due to other players advice or youtube videos. The fact is there is no harm in making a better, more up to date, tutorial system... The argument of "you should have watched a youtube video on how to play" does not really fit logic in my opinion... The game should explain many basic things much better then it currently does...

Its been this way since the days of Everquest in 1999. Back then players assembled binders of pertinent info, since technology wasn't so great on the internet just yet and download speeds of 33kb/s were still common.

MMORPGs have always had an significant amount of information outside the game. Those players who play their first 10-20hrs and get fed up and leave are not MMORPG players. Nothing can be done to get them back, to keep them, or to adjust for them.

MMORPGs are for MMORPG players. Skyrim is for the more casual player who doesn't need outside info to enjoy the game. This isn't Elder Scrolls VI. Its ESO. The only similarity between it and other ES games is the franchise. Its like the difference between Everquest 2 and Champions of Norrath or World of Warcraft and Warcraft III, or even Final Fantasy XI/XIV and I-X, XII, XIII, and XV.

MMORPG players tend to like browsing outside the box to find the best tactic, best build, and crunching numbers to add their own take and methods. If you play inside harder content than quests and dolmens, 60% of that gameplay is spent planning, 30% acquiring, and 10% execution. We like it that way.

I am the same way you are. I do most of my researching and theorycrafting myself. That being said, I do think this game should have a bigger population... More information on the basics would achieve that. By basic, I mean very basic. Crafting set bonuses, why they are better than other gear and how to craft them... Stamina, magicka, or hybrid... Do not try a hybrid if you are new, pick a major resource... How to do damage, tank, heal, pvp, are all extremely hard to master but easy to give the basics on. Honestly I have come across some people that have never even heard of a rotation, 10 minutes explaining the basic concept of laying down dots and doing a spammable: triples their dps (not even taking into account animation cancelling or weaving). I am not saying they should be taught how to be experts, but the difference between not mentioning anything like that and explaining the sheer basics is astronomical to say the least.

disintegr8 · October 2017

I agree that there could be a great deal of improvement done in 'How to Play' tutorials but I would dispute where this needs to start. I am speaking from a console perspective.

Rotations, trading and advanced Cyrodiil guides (on getting Emp or how to attack/defend a keep, for example) are not the first priorities for me. More basic information about weapons, armour and skills, how to use text/voice chat, more insight about crafting, research, horse training, etc.

My first character stalled at level 49 (a Breton StamBlade using 2H and bow) because he was not strong enough to even reach Molag Bal. While I will never be a top level player, I refuse to take all of the blame.

I did not research any armour/weapons traits, level up any crafting skills or buy a horse, for at least the first 3 or 4 months I played the game. I did not know why I should research traits, only knew that collecting stuff clogged up my inventory without knowing why I might collect things, and until you go to Cyrodiil you really have no need for a horse (10k was a lot of gold).

I'll admit to being a Skyrim player and this was my first ever MMO, but having to use Google to figure out why I kept getting killed every time I left Daggerfall on my first character at level 5 (pre 1T) was not something I should have had to do. At least they now put you on your starter islands.

On my first trip into Cyrodiil, once I figured out how to get there (a challenge in itself), I picked up a scouting mission, ran (I did not own a horse) half the length of the map and got ganked. I started again and ran 3/4 of the length of the map to my mission objective and got killed by guards as soon as I stood up to complete the scouting report. I immediately left Cyrodiil with no great desire to go back in a hurry.

Some of you say that MMO players are used to using the internet and reading online guides, but the game needs to allow for the idea that not everyone has played them before. I think the game would have a larger population if there were better and more informative tutorials or in game guides you could read - some players who have quit in frustration might still be here.

Mondini · October 2017

The game went to *** when they removed vet ranks.
I had met very few V12/4/6 players that couldn't play

Shadzilla · October 2017

Mondini wrote: »

The game went to *** when they removed vet ranks.
I had met very few V12/4/6 players that couldn't play

Very informative and in depth... Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I am not sure what has happened to install your saltiness, but perhaps you may take your saltiness elsewhere?

danger-too-much-salt-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-health-hazard-written-heap-42230135.jpg

danger-too-much-salt-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-health-hazard-written-heap-42230135.jpg

Shadzilla · October 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

I agree that there could be a great deal of improvement done in 'How to Play' tutorials but I would dispute where this needs to start. I am speaking from a console perspective.

Rotations, trading and advanced Cyrodiil guides (on getting Emp or how to attack/defend a keep, for example) are not the first priorities for me. More basic information about weapons, armour and skills, how to use text/voice chat, more insight about crafting, research, horse training, etc.

My first character stalled at level 49 (a Breton StamBlade using 2H and bow) because he was not strong enough to even reach Molag Bal. While I will never be a top level player, I refuse to take all of the blame.

I did not research any armour/weapons traits, level up any crafting skills or buy a horse, for at least the first 3 or 4 months I played the game. I did not know why I should research traits, only knew that collecting stuff clogged up my inventory without knowing why I might collect things, and until you go to Cyrodiil you really have no need for a horse (10k was a lot of gold).

I'll admit to being a Skyrim player and this was my first ever MMO, but having to use Google to figure out why I kept getting killed every time I left Daggerfall on my first character at level 5 (pre 1T) was not something I should have had to do. At least they now put you on your starter islands.

On my first trip into Cyrodiil, once I figured out how to get there (a challenge in itself), I picked up a scouting mission, ran (I did not own a horse) half the length of the map and got ganked. I started again and ran 3/4 of the length of the map to my mission objective and got killed by guards as soon as I stood up to complete the scouting report. I immediately left Cyrodiil with no great desire to go back in a hurry.

Some of you say that MMO players are used to using the internet and reading online guides, but the game needs to allow for the idea that not everyone has played them before. I think the game would have a larger population if there were better and more informative tutorials or in game guides you could read - some players who have quit in frustration might still be here.

Very well said.

idk · October 2017

It is fine for Zos to show more about guilds and such, however, I take major issue with Zos actually teaching new players about a rotation.

Zos knows how they attempted to get the game to work, but lacks the experience and knowledge of solid rotations and how to choose skills. That is the norm with any MMO. So in the end, if Zos attempted such a tutorial we would have players who were truly interested stifled by some neutered combat example Zos provides them.

It could actually bring about more troubles for a new player than it solves.

I hope I do not come off negative to you proposing an idea. It is more that Zos does not have the capacity to teach anything outside of the most basic aspects of the game. It is guilds and true theorycrafters who test out different builds that are sources of real information.