Can something be done to Major Evasion?

ArchMikem · October 2017

I haven't bothered to PvP in the longest time, and for good reason. But one late night I saw one of the many "So and so took your Scroll" message on my empty Campaign, and thought "...wonder if I could gank them?" So I went in, caught up to the Scroll and of course it was a group of at least five, and I always have trouble in 1v1, let alone me against the world, so I backed off.

But to the point, I eventually got dug into a fight over it, and I swear EVERY single time I tried casting Incap it missed, regardless of if the guy rolled away or was just standing there, and I know Evasion was to blame cause nearly every single PvP build uses it. Sure you're gonna tell me that's what Evasion is for, to extend survivability by making some attacks not hit you. But then I keep remembering this experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKPuQ_2X9U

Maybe give some kind of special exemptions for Evasion? Make it so the 20% buff doesn't apply to Incoming Ultimates? Or that attacks can't be Dodged when you're standing still.

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

Don't worry, they're nerfing shuffle next patch. Only can be used with 5 medium.

And major evasion is 15% BTW

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

They are not nerfing shuffle, they are nerfing heavy armor builds using shuffle. Imao they forget Tava's favor set (a tank set that needs shuffle to work) and other ways to stam heavy armor to remove snares and roots. What makes me laugh is a nightblade that complains and whines about evasion percentage XD

Qbiken · October 2017

I´m going to say the guy you where attacking was lucky with 2 dodge-procs (that´s the way of RNG :P )

Destruent · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

They are not nerfing shuffle, they are nerfing heavy armor builds using shuffle. Imao they forget Tava's favor set (a tank set that needs shuffle to work) and other ways to stam heavy armor to remove snares and roots. What makes me laugh is a nightblade that complains and whines about evasion percentage XD

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

paulsimonps · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

They are not nerfing shuffle, they are nerfing heavy armor builds using shuffle. Imao they forget Tava's favor set (a tank set that needs shuffle to work) and other ways to stam heavy armor to remove snares and roots. What makes me laugh is a nightblade that complains and whines about evasion percentage XD

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

Destruent wrote: »

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

What gear are u talking about? werewolf is medium, blood spawn is perfect in combo with tava's, shalk is useless because of heroic slash (for a stamina tank)

Destruent · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

What gear are u talking about? werewolf is medium, blood spawn is perfect in combo with tava's, shalk is useless because of heroic slash (for a stamina tank)

you can use werwolf-hide with jewelry/weapons and pair it with akaviri dragonguard + bloodspawn, best ultireg-build atm imo.

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Well it's true, u can get evasion from blur if u are a nightblade and from gossamer (but the uptime is a little bit low imao too use it with tava's). And idk what to say if u are proposing a rolling tank build to proc tava's, worst idea ever probably

paulsimonps · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Well it's true, u can get evasion from blur if u are a nightblade and from gossamer (but the uptime is a little bit low imao too use it with tava's). And idk what to say if u are proposing a rolling tank build to proc tava's, worst idea ever probably

Never suggested it, just saying you technically don't require shuffle or Major Evasion to proc it.

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Never suggested it, just saying you technically don't require shuffle or Major Evasion to proc it.

technically u don't require shuffle, but c'mon mate tava's for tanking, if u cant use shuffle, is a useless set for most of classes

paulsimonps · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

What gear are u talking about? werewolf is medium, blood spawn is perfect in combo with tava's, shalk is useless because of heroic slash (for a stamina tank)

Well combining bloodspawn with Major Evasion, aka a Tava's build actually lowers proc chance of Bloodspawn... sooo think that what @Destruent was suggesting would be a better combo, or you could do lower cost with Dragon and Potentates. Ulti builds are better suited for off tanks and off tanks don't get his as often as main tanks anyway. And the fastest and most reliable way to get really high ultimate fast is Invigorating Drain. Invigorating Drain combined with low cost gets you ultimate really really fast, if that is what you are going for.

Destruent · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

What gear are u talking about? werewolf is medium, blood spawn is perfect in combo with tava's, shalk is useless because of heroic slash (for a stamina tank)

Well combining bloodspawn with Major Evasion, aka a Tava's build actually lowers proc chance of Bloodspawn... sooo think that what @Destruent was suggesting would be a better combo, or you could do lower cost with Dragon and Potentates. Ulti builds are better suited for off tanks and off tanks don't get his as often as main tanks anyway. And the fastest and most reliable way to get really high ultimate fast is Invigorating Drain. Invigorating Drain combined with low cost gets you ultimate really really fast, if that is what you are going for.

there's no way to unslot invigorating drain on a tank

edit: so it's there anyways ^^

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Well combining bloodspawn with Major Evasion, aka a Tava's build actually lowers proc chance of Bloodspawn... sooo think that what @Destruent was suggesting would be a better combo, or you could do lower cost with Dragon and Potentates. Ulti builds are better suited for off tanks and off tanks don't get his as often as main tanks anyway. And the fastest and most reliable way to get really high ultimate fast is Invigorating Drain. Invigorating Drain combined with low cost gets you ultimate really really fast, if that is what you are going for.

i totally agree with you for this, don't get me wrong. But the variety of ulti regen builds are reduced with this nerf this is the problem. Tava's was fine and not op, now (if the changes remain) it's a trash set

WillhelmBlack · October 2017

Destruent wrote: »

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

They are not nerfing shuffle, they are nerfing heavy armor builds using shuffle. Imao they forget Tava's favor set (a tank set that needs shuffle to work) and other ways to stam heavy armor to remove snares and roots. What makes me laugh is a nightblade that complains and whines about evasion percentage XD

No idea why everyone is going crazy bc of tavas...there are better sets to increase ulti-regen.

Huh? Like which ones?

WillhelmBlack · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Well combining bloodspawn with Major Evasion, aka a Tava's build actually lowers proc chance of Bloodspawn... sooo think that what @Destruent was suggesting would be a better combo, or you could do lower cost with Dragon and Potentates. Ulti builds are better suited for off tanks and off tanks don't get his as often as main tanks anyway. And the fastest and most reliable way to get really high ultimate fast is Invigorating Drain. Invigorating Drain combined with low cost gets you ultimate really really fast, if that is what you are going for.

i totally agree with you for this, don't get me wrong. But the variety of ulti regen builds are reduced with this nerf this is the problem. Tava's was fine and not op, now (if the changes remain) it's a trash set

...for a DK.

For NB it's still best for ult generation.

Biro123 · October 2017

Since the addition of shield-wall, lights champion and the warden healy-ulti-thingy... (and the general sustain nerfs with morrowind) I've always thought ulti-regen came too quick - especially when built for it.

Tonno_SenSei · October 2017

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

...for a DK.

For NB it's still best for ult generation.

also for templar and warden ( 5% evasion is a bit of a joke)

Biro123 wrote: »

Since the addition of shield-wall, lights champion and the warden healy-ulti-thingy... (and the general sustain nerfs with morrowind) I've always thought ulti-regen came too quick - especially when built for it.

Mate if you build for ulti regen is normal imao that you build ulti fast and you can spam low cost ulti, because it's the key of your build -.-

casparian · October 2017

Going forward, only medium armor builds will be able to run Shuffle for easy access to Major Evasion.

I'd be more than happy to give up Major Evasion in favor of some other defensive mechanic for medium armor builds. What replacement would you propose?

Illurian · October 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Well it's true, u can get evasion from blur if u are a nightblade and from gossamer (but the uptime is a little bit low imao too use it with tava's). And idk what to say if u are proposing a rolling tank build to proc tava's, worst idea ever probably

Never suggested it, just saying you technically don't require shuffle or Major Evasion to proc it.

I usually agree with your posts but this one is very pedantic and pointless.

You also technically don't require skills or weapons to do damage. Just left click with your fists. See what I'm getting at?

One other point about Tava's getting an indirect nerf is that it is craftable. Now if Jewelry crafting were released, one could run Hist Bark with Tava's Favour but sadly that isn't the case. Tava's was not considered BiS anyway, so why the nerf? It obviously wasn't thought through well enough.

Qbiken · October 2017

Illurian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Well it's true, u can get evasion from blur if u are a nightblade and from gossamer (but the uptime is a little bit low imao too use it with tava's). And idk what to say if u are proposing a rolling tank build to proc tava's, worst idea ever probably

Never suggested it, just saying you technically don't require shuffle or Major Evasion to proc it.

I usually agree with your posts but this one is very pedantic and pointless.

You also technically don't require skills or weapons to do damage. Just left click with your fists. See what I'm getting at?

One other point about Tava's getting an indirect nerf is that it is craftable. Now if Jewelry crafting were released, one could run Hist Bark with Tava's Favour but sadly that isn't the case. Tava's was not considered BiS anyway, so why the nerf? It obviously wasn't thought through well enough.

You could also run Specter´s eye (kappa) xD

paulsimonps · October 2017

Illurian wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

To be technical, it doesn't need Shuffle to work. Any source of Major Evasion will work, as well, dodge rolling will also work. So Shuffle is not required. Oh and Minor Evasion will work too of course.

Well it's true, u can get evasion from blur if u are a nightblade and from gossamer (but the uptime is a little bit low imao too use it with tava's). And idk what to say if u are proposing a rolling tank build to proc tava's, worst idea ever probably

Never suggested it, just saying you technically don't require shuffle or Major Evasion to proc it.

I usually agree with your posts but this one is very pedantic and pointless.

You also technically don't require skills or weapons to do damage. Just left click with your fists. See what I'm getting at?

One other point about Tava's getting an indirect nerf is that it is craftable. Now if Jewelry crafting were released, one could run Hist Bark with Tava's Favour but sadly that isn't the case. Tava's was not considered BiS anyway, so why the nerf? It obviously wasn't thought through well enough.

The change to Shuffle is very clearly not done cause of PvE Tanks running Heavy Tava's, and you can still run Tava's as a Tank just got to do it in Medium armor if you are not a NB. The change was done for PvP balance most likely, since a lot of people primarily used Heavy armor but used the medium armor skill.

Also it's never pointless to be technical

ArchMikem · October 2017

Tonno_SenSei wrote: »

What makes me laugh is a nightblade that complains and whines about evasion percentage XD

You think everyone who has a Nightblade character plays exactly the same way. But you're the one who brought up "whining". I didn't bring up the OP just cause it's inconvenient for me. I brought it up cause I see it as a legit problem with the game itself, for everyone. You shouldn't be dodging attacks willy nilly by just standing in place.

Asardes · October 2017

You can switch to medium and still be tanky if you use a shield. 1/5/1 only has 6-7% less mitigation than 1/1/5 setup when not taking block into account. When blocking that's narrowed down to about 2%. So there's still no problem combining 1p Dragon body 3 Jewels 1 weapon/shield, wearing 1p light 3p medium 1 shield/weapon Tavas and 2p medium monster set and using shuffle.

Zbigb4life · October 2017

There is something wrong with shuffle, I had 4-5 attacks in a row with noting more than dodge dodge dodge dodge and dodge. The ability is supposed to give you an extra chance not provide you with the ability to dodge everything.

I like the idea it can only be used by medium armor, gone with all those heavy armor builds.

Asardes · October 2017

Zbigb4life wrote: »

There is something wrong with shuffle, I had 4-5 attacks in a row with noting more than dodge dodge dodge dodge and dodge. The ability is supposed to give you an extra chance not provide you with the ability to dodge everything.

I like the idea it can only be used by medium armor, gone with all those heavy armor builds.

Major evasion works more like a random buff with 15% chance. For each hit you have a chance to receive full dodge for all attacks for a short period. Once the buff is triggered, all attacks that would hit you miss instead until the buff expires. It's the same buff you receive when you roll dodge, but there the "proc" chance is 100. I don't know if there's a cooldown for it. That's why you see one person dodging more consecutive attacks over a short period instead of one attack from time to time.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · October 2017

I wish my major evasion dodged attacks hahaha. Bad RNG I guess.

SodanTok · October 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

There is something wrong with shuffle, I had 4-5 attacks in a row with noting more than dodge dodge dodge dodge and dodge. The ability is supposed to give you an extra chance not provide you with the ability to dodge everything.

I like the idea it can only be used by medium armor, gone with all those heavy armor builds.

Major evasion works more like a random buff with 15% chance. For each hit you have a chance to receive full dodge for all attacks for a short period. Once the buff is triggered, all attacks that would hit you miss instead until the buff expires. It's the same buff you receive when you roll dodge, but there the "proc" chance is 100. I don't know if there's a cooldown for it. That's why you see one person dodging more consecutive attacks over a short period instead of one attack from time to time.

I know people use to say this a lot but is there actual proof of it. I would be willing accept the existence of some dodge window if someone finally bothered to show exact proof. For simple me, If I go to dungeon with shuffle and aggro on myself 30 enemies I can see damage numbers popping up same time as dodge text. Like if there is some window where you are immune to everything it is so small it cant be noticed by human eye where the window after dodge roll is very noticeable even against very few enemies.

Would help if there was some addon that tracks your own dodges so I can see the exact time difference between first dodge proc and first attack after it.

danno8 · October 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I´m going to say the guy you where attacking was lucky with 2 dodge-procs (that´s the way of RNG :P )

It was 3 in a row if you watch closely.

Asardes wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

There is something wrong with shuffle, I had 4-5 attacks in a row with noting more than dodge dodge dodge dodge and dodge. The ability is supposed to give you an extra chance not provide you with the ability to dodge everything.

I like the idea it can only be used by medium armor, gone with all those heavy armor builds.

Major evasion works more like a random buff with 15% chance. For each hit you have a chance to receive full dodge for all attacks for a short period. Once the buff is triggered, all attacks that would hit you miss instead until the buff expires. It's the same buff you receive when you roll dodge, but there the "proc" chance is 100. I don't know if there's a cooldown for it. That's why you see one person dodging more consecutive attacks over a short period instead of one attack from time to time.

I tested this once. Pretty easy. Activated Shuffle and aggroed a whole bunch of mobs on my Templar while simply healing myself for minute or two.

If there is a "dodge window" with procced dodge events you would find that every dodge is generally followed by another dodge assuming you are getting hit enough for more than one attack to land in that "window". No matter how many hits I was taking I never saw any evidence of a "dodge window".

In fact I very often procced dodge and then received a hit within a fraction of a second after which would prove the opposite of a "dodge window".

ADarklore · October 2017

But doesn't this work only with ONE enemy's attack not a entire mob? So you would dodge one enemy's attack within a buff window, but could still be hit by other enemy attacks. Or perhaps it is a 15% chance 'per attacking enemy', therefore it would not proc against every enemy?

idk · October 2017

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Don't worry, they're nerfing shuffle next patch. Only can be used with 5 medium.

And major evasion is 15% BTW

Yes. Really a good idea to read the patch notes for the pts. Especially if something changes that affects you it's really to late once it goes live.