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Seducer, Alteration Mastery
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important questionEU | PC | AD8 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Isn't it applied at separate instances?
Ex 1. 1000 cost 2x 10% reductions =800 cost after reductions
Ex 2. 1000 cost 2x 10% reductions applied separately = 810 cost.
I think it works like ex 2. So its not going to be 14% like you would assume.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on October 4, 2017 2:08PM1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Isn't it applied at separate instances?
Ex 1. 1000 cost 2x 10% reductions =800 cost after reductions
Ex 2. 1000 cost 2x 10% reductions applied separately = 810 cost.
I think it works like ex 2. So its not going to be 14% like you would assume.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/
Spell Cost
The Base Cost of a spell is the tooltip cost value, without any equipment or skills that provide either a percentage or flat cost reduction. Flat Cost Reduction is typically in the form of enchantments on jewellery and % Cost Reduction comes from skills and passives. Note that the 2 piece Molag Kena is a 33% cost increase when activated.1 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important question
It's not really "no damage". With two reduction sets you can run a damage mundus and three spell damage glyphs and use tri stat food. You could even run two molag kena on top of all that. And sustain it. In heavy.
I know because I've done it before, and it works.
Edited by Akinos on October 5, 2017 2:45AMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp4 -
Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important question
As a pvp healer wearing heavy and stacking spellpower instead of regen on jewelery.. i can tell you that the combination of those 2 sets can work miracles for certain builds/roles :PFeralclaw - EU - AD
Khajit Warden - Werewolf Warden
Also own:
lvl 50 Templar PvP Healer (Dunmer)
2 lvl 50 Magicka Staff / Stamina / Healer Nightblade's (Khajit/Dunmer)
lvl 50 Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer)1 -
Methariorn✭✭✭The main problem in alteration mastery is the lack of a magicka stack: 3 spell power glyph on jewelery and apprendice mundus are enough spell power even for dps build but the magicka pool is gonna be a bit too low.Methariorn sorc EU server AD
Acciughina NB EU server AD
Aiacos Templar EU server AD
Sevoltan DK EU server AD1 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭Timeraider wrote: »Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important question
As a pvp healer wearing heavy and stacking spellpower instead of regen on jewelery.. i can tell you that the combination of those 2 sets can work miracles for certain builds/roles :P
I'd drop the spell power and put block cost reduction glyphs. I hit 10k BOL crits wearing 5 seducer and 5 alteration mastery in Cyrodiil. Heals scale off so many factors that provide + healing % that spell power really isn't necessary to get big heals. Don't need mass BOL heals if you are keeping up all your HoTs (I drop the 5 piece Seducer since I don't have alteration mastery weapons currently and wear 2 body and 3 jewelry). Very effective set up in CP and BGs.Edited by Zvorgin on October 5, 2017 12:24PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Timeraider wrote: »Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important question
As a pvp healer wearing heavy and stacking spellpower instead of regen on jewelery.. i can tell you that the combination of those 2 sets can work miracles for certain builds/roles :P
My personal opinion on that is that it's certainly workable yet sub-optimal.
Healers' main function is support, it's the same in PvE and PvP. So one of Spell Power Cure or Worm Cult would be preferable along side Seducer. Probably SPC, since you also get the benefit of the Spell Damage buff yourself and it doesn't scream "Healer" from two miles away.
Edited by Maulkin on October 5, 2017 1:09PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Alright so in theory id i wanted to run this on a magplar thats heavy armor with decent dmg to be able to run solo what would i need?
Here is what i came up with:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=287210 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Braedon998 wrote: »Alright so in theory id i wanted to run this on a magplar thats heavy armor with decent dmg to be able to run solo what would i need?
Here is what i came up with:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=28721
Try this one instead: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=28871
It's almost the same build, just adjusted some things, all things that are generally easy to obtain. I also adjusted the CP since it was all over the place and added some important passives you were missing xD. Should work much better IMO. Also I'd swap out grothdar for valkyn if you can and swap out the powered alteration sword for precise or sharpened.
Here's a video in which I was using a similar build:
https://youtu.be/eo1vfp_Hnvw Edited by Akinos on October 5, 2017 2:44PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Braedon998 wrote: »Does the 5 piece reduction of seducer stack with alteration mastery's 5 piece?
Yes. Though why in gods name someone would want so much sustain and no damage is a more important question
works great for a tank in PUGS,i can tell you that1 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭oopsEdited by Akinos on October 5, 2017 2:44PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.EU | PC | AD0 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
I think it's the exact opposite.
When it first came out with IC it used to say "Reduce all costs by 8%", which included dodge roll and block. But then some time after that (don't remember when) they changed it to "Reduces the cost of all abilities by 6%".
Tests done since then prove conclusively that it does not reduce the cost of block...
I've not seen any tests about the cost of dodge roll though.
EDIT: In other words it's taken a massive nerf hammer to the head and now it's less useful than Seducer in my opinion.
Edited by Maulkin on October 5, 2017 3:04PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.EU | PC | AD0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
hmm not cool0 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well then, it's useful for ulty reduction and worm cult might be a better alternative overall for group play and battlegrounds. In fact, someone needs to test if worm cult can be stacked between 4 players in BGs, just had the thought cross my mind.
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
hmm not cool
Well the timestamp of the video is from February. I don't know what the current status of the set is. You might be right, it could have changed since. I haven't tested recently.
But the change in the wording certainly indicates that they meant only abilities. Look at the old wording...
... and compare it to the current wording.
Edited by Maulkin on October 5, 2017 3:39PMEU | PC | AD0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭I have to say, I was 100% on board with you @Maulkin but then I did some digging and this is from the PTS patch 3.0.0 patch notes:Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3999568#Comment_3999568
These are from April after the before mentioned testing video.
Also, it went live as well in patch 3.0.5 as confirmed in these patch notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest
So yes, Alteration Mastery does reduce Sprint, Bash and Block costs per Zos. Don't trust the tool tips!2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have to say, I was 100% on board with you @Maulkin but then I did some digging and this is from the PTS patch 3.0.0 patch notes:Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3999568#Comment_3999568
These are from April after the before mentioned testing video.
Also, it went live as well in patch 3.0.5 as confirmed in these patch notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest
So yes, Alteration Mastery does reduce Sprint, Bash and Block costs per Zos. Don't trust the tool tips!
Ah cool. Well at least that clarifies things. They need to change the tooltip though cause it's [snip] confusing.
[Edited to remove profanity masking]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 7:27PMEU | PC | AD1 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
You linked out of date evidence to the contrary. Alteration Mastery was fixed with Morrowind and once again reduces the cost of block, sprint, etc.
From morrowind patch notes (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest): "Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block."
Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
You linked out of date evidence to the contrary. Alteration Mastery was fixed with Morrowind and once again reduces the cost of block, sprint, etc.
From morrowind patch notes (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest): "Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block."
Yep, fair enough.EU | PC | AD1 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭So the only question now would be if Seducer works the same way as alteration mastery or not.0
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
You linked out of date evidence to the contrary. Alteration Mastery was fixed with Morrowind and once again reduces the cost of block, sprint, etc.
From morrowind patch notes (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest): "Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block."
Yep, fair enough.
Ha, I missed where someone else already posted that link. Now I just look like an ass.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Alteration mastery shouldn't just be used for sustain, but also for the ulty cost reduction benefit, as well as dodge roll and all those other little details. Although, if you want more group sustain, don't forget worm cult. You can combine that with seducer and help your BG members a lot, plus it has a spell damage bonus so it's decent.
Does it still reduce the cost of dodge roll? I though that got fixed along with reducing the cost of block.
As far as I know it's supposed to reduce everything, but in the past it didn't (bug). You think it's not supposed to?
it does, block/dodge/skills are all affected
I've linked evidence to the contrary.
You linked out of date evidence to the contrary. Alteration Mastery was fixed with Morrowind and once again reduces the cost of block, sprint, etc.
From morrowind patch notes (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest): "Robes of Alteration Mastery: Fixed an issue where this item set was not reducing the cost of Sprint, Bash, or Block."
Yep, fair enough.
Ha, I missed where someone else already posted that link. Now I just look like an ass.
Not more than the one who linked out of date info though EU | PC | AD0
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FYATBJ8WK4s