Feedback on Siphoner Passive

IAVITNI · October 2017

25% recovery reduction is insane. If this passive becomes meta, say goodbye to any build that isn't heavy or relying on sets like desert rose.

This change really only affects medium and light armor builds. Barring a few outliers that crutch on overturned synergies (looking at you Dark Deal + Amberplasm) overall sustain is in a good place at the moment.

Not too sure where ZoS is trying to go with this passive. The patch notes say that its to reduce TTK for builds that survive on heals and resource return. Isn't that every build in ESO? The only builds that can take a constant beating without LoS are heavy armor 1h/shield setups and most of those don't rely on high recovery.

I for one do not like this change.

Brutusmax1mus · October 2017

Terrible idea. They do this, but don't address permanently blocking builds, some of which are insanely offensive sets.

PathwayM · October 2017

This is the same thing people thought when it was first introduced. It sucked then, it'll still suck now. No one is going to invest 100 points into this passive for it to matter.

Soris · October 2017

Now it's worth it. 2000 recovery will be 1500 in combat. And have no cooldown.
With combination of poisons, it's broken af.

Minno · October 2017

PathwayM wrote: »

This is the same thing people thought when it was first introduced. It sucked then, it'll still suck now. No one is going to invest 100 points into this passive for it to matter.

25% off 1400 Regen is 350 Regen removed. But you'd have wasted 100 CP, effectively lost your ability to block/dodge roll cheaper.

Agreed, it might help a little, but this star should be removed. It would probably be better if it increased the cost of block on the target to be the counter to block (since they seem to keep letting Templars go without an unblockable cc...)

SodanTok · October 2017

Nobody is going to spend 1/3 or 1/2 of green CP to remove 400-500 regen from medium/light armor only instead of getting more break free reduction, dodge roll reduction, block reduction, resource recovery or heavy attack recovery.

Until it affects all resources (constituation, heavy attack restore, netch, ...) it wont be good and it wont be worth the points.

Juhasow · October 2017

First people would have to sacrifice CP's granting them recovery , more resources on heavy attacks or reduced costs of block/break free/roll dodge and I doubt someone will spend 100 CP into reducing someones else recovery and cut lot of his own recoverys in the procces.

Second thing is that people have to understand that Siphoner passive is not stacking between different players but is active from player who did last heavy attack on target so if You have 100 CP into Siphoner and someone have 1 CP into it and he attacks enemie with weapon attacks later then You then enemie will have recoverys reduced by that 1 CP not 100.

This change is maded because atm noone is using that CP's because it's weak and I doubt it'll be overpowered now. It MAY BE usefull but definietly not OP . Stop overreacting !

Xsorus · October 2017

It's still *** and will continue to be *** till it's moved to a different line.

BohnT · October 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno when you introduced CP trees like shattering blows or siphoner you said that it was to give you the opportunity to counter the other CP trees.

With the buff to Siphoner it's no longer a 1:1 ratio rather than a 5:3 ratio which makes the counter much stronger than the buff

IAVITNI · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

First people would have to sacrifice CP's granting them recovery , more resources on heavy attacks or reduced costs of block/break free/roll dodge and I doubt someone will spend 100 CP into reducing someones else recovery and cut lot of his own recoverys in the procces.

Second thing is that people have to understand that Siphoner passive is not stacking between different players but is active from player who did last heavy attack on target so if You have 100 CP into Siphoner and someone have 1 CP into it and he attacks enemie with weapon attacks later then You then enemie will have recoverys reduced by that 1 CP not 100.

This change is maded because atm noone is using that CP's because it's weak and I doubt it'll be overpowered now. It MAY BE usefull but definietly not OP . Stop overreacting !

I mean, i did say IF it becomes meta. IMO sustain is in a good place since morrowind so this passive isn't really needed. Ofc this is just my opinion. But I don't see it being a passive that supports healthy game play. Damage reduction cp makes sense in tandem with damage increasing passives as it only affects a players TTK. Recovery passives affect TTK indirectly but also the players ability to play. I'd much prefer to see it as a block reduction such as @Minno suggested.

I wouldn't call my post an over reaction. I'm really just confused with the point of the passive. If you don't want high sustain in PvP just add it to battle spirit. The only builds that take forever to kill won't be affected by this change.

In high end duels, yes they can go on forever, but thats more likely due to skill being too even than sustain being to high. I personally can 1vx majority of players in PvP and when I duel most good players, it does take forever. But whenever I run into someone who is simply that much better than me my TTK isn't different from a potato.

Oh and for reference, the population of PvP imo

80% are potatoes
10% are good
9% are amazing
1% are just ridiculous

NBrookus · October 2017

Siphoner: now with 10% more Xv1 potential.

I'll just keep stacking proc regen which is untouched by Siphoner.

Minno · October 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

It's still *** and will continue to be *** till it's moved to a different line.

It actually can't. Players won't be giving up the blue DMG stars and the mitigation values from the red tree.

The only logical solution is to give 1-5% tied to a CP passive that's unlocked, and turn siphoner into a star that does one of the following:
- reduces block cost on target
- reduce the duration of negative effects like snares/immobilzes/debuffs/poisons(my favorite one since everyone wants snare removal a way to get rid of those everything cost reduction poisons but the there's no way to reduce them. Even if it's a 14% max star, 5% wouldn't be terrible to get or use and it would force players to actually choose between block and break free or block and negative effect reduction. )
- increase cost of target's Ultimate (similar to the poison but help builds combat blood spawn and other ulti gain).

IAVITNI · October 2017

Minno wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

It's still *** and will continue to be *** till it's moved to a different line.

It actually can't. Players won't be giving up the blue DMG stars and the mitigation values from the red tree.

The only logical solution is to give 1-5% tied to a CP passive that's unlocked, and turn siphoner into a star that does one of the following:
- reduces block cost on target
- reduce the duration of negative effects like snares/immobilzes/debuffs/poisons(my favorite one since everyone wants snare removal a way to get rid of those everything cost reduction poisons but the there's no way to reduce them. Even if it's a 14% max star, 5% wouldn't be terrible to get or use and it would force players to actually choose between block and break free or block and negative effect reduction. )
- increase cost of target's Ultimate (similar to the poison but help builds combat blood spawn and other ulti gain).

Love the idea of transferring it to a passive and implementing a snare/immobilize reduction. I don't think debuffs/poisons should be included as it would be doing too much.

That said, I think the accessibility to debuffs should be limited. I'm fine with poisons atm, none that I find are game breaking with the increased proc cooldown. But having something like Major Defile on Lethal Arrow is ridiculous. You're doing massive damage to your opponent while applying a Major debuff, all while behind a zerg. Reverb Bash is "fine" imo. At least it requires you to be in your face and the damage is a bonus.

Zer0oo · October 2017

same dev team = same decisions to make it harder with every patch when you are outnummbered

Lexxypwns · October 2017

Befoul is always stronger than siphoner if you have access to major defile

Joy_Division · October 2017

I never did like this CP star in the first place.

Not that I'm a fan of the CP system, but at least with most stars, they effect everyone equally and don't just hand an advantage to the side with greater numbers. In an Xv1 scenario, the 1 is guaranteed to get hit with this debuff, whereas most of the X will not.

DeadlyRecluse · October 2017

It's a pretty bad CP star that shouldn't exist, but it's worth pointing out that most people who do use it will probably not invest all the way (and probably aren't now). I'd bet that it's effectiveness, for people who do invest in it, will be changing from 12 percent to 20 percent (56 points invested in the star).

Still terrible and needless, but not quite a sky-is-falling level buff.

Anazasi · October 2017

Live test for Siphoner

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DH3RFfNGBDk&t=5s

While I agree with everyone this is a particular wasteful tree. It only becomes useful when you are fighting a player with incredibly high regen. 25% of 1000 is 250 while 25% of 5000 is 1225. The numbers are exponential on the extreme builds and not really noticeable on the average builds. The value of pt expense based on priority of other benefits is the weight by which you the player decides.

Vaoh · October 2017

I don't like this CP passive at all. It's almost specifically designed to punish Light Armor/Medium Armor/solo play and promote Heavy Armor.

At 15% it wasn't too bad. 25% is a massive debuff. Add poison and rip your sustain.

Cinbri · October 2017

Amazing change. Make me feel that this *** CP system next update won't be completely broken ***.

Xsorus · October 2017

Anazasi wrote: »

Live test for Siphoner

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DH3RFfNGBDk&t=5s

While I agree with everyone this is a particular wasteful tree. It only becomes useful when you are fighting a player with incredibly high regen. 25% of 1000 is 250 while 25% of 5000 is 1225. The numbers are exponential on the extreme builds and not really noticeable on the average builds. The value of pt expense based on priority of other benefits is the weight by which you the player decides.

Its only useful against secondary resource stat....you knock off 1225 off a 5000 value person and they won't notice it, because at 5000 Stamina or Magicka REcovery, you're already as the extremes of resource recovery..even knocking off 750 off 3k won't be noticed most of the time.

Minno · October 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Live test for Siphoner

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DH3RFfNGBDk&t=5s

While I agree with everyone this is a particular wasteful tree. It only becomes useful when you are fighting a player with incredibly high regen. 25% of 1000 is 250 while 25% of 5000 is 1225. The numbers are exponential on the extreme builds and not really noticeable on the average builds. The value of pt expense based on priority of other benefits is the weight by which you the player decides.

Its only useful against secondary resource stat....you knock off 1225 off a 5000 value person and they won't notice it, because at 5000 Stamina or Magicka REcovery, you're already as the extremes of resource recovery..even knocking off 750 off 3k won't be noticed most of the time.

How many does 31 points give you on pts?
On the build editor, 31 points is what you can squeeze out after taking 10% into block/dodge roll/break free and 120 pts into the lover tree.

SodanTok · October 2017

Minno wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Live test for Siphoner

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DH3RFfNGBDk&t=5s

While I agree with everyone this is a particular wasteful tree. It only becomes useful when you are fighting a player with incredibly high regen. 25% of 1000 is 250 while 25% of 5000 is 1225. The numbers are exponential on the extreme builds and not really noticeable on the average builds. The value of pt expense based on priority of other benefits is the weight by which you the player decides.

Its only useful against secondary resource stat....you knock off 1225 off a 5000 value person and they won't notice it, because at 5000 Stamina or Magicka REcovery, you're already as the extremes of resource recovery..even knocking off 750 off 3k won't be noticed most of the time.

How many does 31 points give you on pts?
On the build editor, 31 points is what you can squeeze out after taking 10% into block/dodge roll/break free and 120 pts into the lover tree.

31 would be 13%. And the only reason you would find points for that is that you either do not care about blocking or dodging or just little about both and obv do not care at all about befoul, sprinting or bashing. Personally it would be for majority of people at most 6th best CP to put points into. That wont change. It has potential to some abuse in duels of zergs, but overall that star will never be interesting unless it affects every resource gain and/or we have higher CP cap.

So tt will be cancer next year. After 4 more CP increases. When everybody will have nothing to lose to shutdown 20% of regen of every medium/light build.

GreenSoup2HoT · October 2017

Punishes the regen builds that already have low healing nice. How about increasing block cost because its block casting heavy low regen builds that are an issue imo.

ssewallb14_ESO · October 2017

This literally nerfs everything except for what they were trying to nerf. lol.

Waffennacht · October 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Punishes the regen builds that already have low healing nice. How about increasing block cost because its block casting heavy low regen builds that are an issue imo.

That's actually a brilliant idea. A block cost increase CP

Minno · October 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Live test for Siphoner

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DH3RFfNGBDk&t=5s

While I agree with everyone this is a particular wasteful tree. It only becomes useful when you are fighting a player with incredibly high regen. 25% of 1000 is 250 while 25% of 5000 is 1225. The numbers are exponential on the extreme builds and not really noticeable on the average builds. The value of pt expense based on priority of other benefits is the weight by which you the player decides.

Its only useful against secondary resource stat....you knock off 1225 off a 5000 value person and they won't notice it, because at 5000 Stamina or Magicka REcovery, you're already as the extremes of resource recovery..even knocking off 750 off 3k won't be noticed most of the time.

How many does 31 points give you on pts?
On the build editor, 31 points is what you can squeeze out after taking 10% into block/dodge roll/break free and 120 pts into the lover tree.

31 would be 13%. And the only reason you would find points for that is that you either do not care about blocking or dodging or just little about both and obv do not care at all about befoul, sprinting or bashing. Personally it would be for majority of people at most 6th best CP to put points into. That wont change. It has potential to some abuse in duels of zergs, but overall that star will never be interesting unless it affects every resource gain and/or we have higher CP cap.

So tt will be cancer next year. After 4 more CP increases. When everybody will have nothing to lose to shutdown 20% of regen of every medium/light build.

Well the reason I was asking is because I already partitioned the points to give 10% in the Trinity of Stam cost reductions (block, dodge roll, break free). On live 31 points gives you 7% for siphoner. That means everyone can get 10% reduction for 23 points?

That's not terrible; but nothing to build "for".