Mater and Maelstrom weapon sets should have perfect and normal versions as well.

Nolic1 · September 2017

After testing the master and maelstrom weapon sets on the test server along with the asylum weapons I feel it should be changed to offer the same type of perfect and normal versions sense they all come from some of the harder content. I know many will say you can solo normal mode on Dragon Star Arena and that Maelstrom Arena is easy on normal but those types of builds that are used for that exceed what player have in gear unless they play trials at the harder difficulty anyways and with one weapon set offering a normal version and the others not it creates an imbalance to the game with these weapon sets.

If the Asylum weapon set only offered one version then I can see it as being more balanced but sense it does not the other 2 weapon sets stand out as being better options because they offer only a perfect version. This also would make Master and Maelstrom some thing to get the base versions of on normal to try and get them on vet for the better version much like we use gear from one content to earn gear on another. This also will offer players to learn the content on normal mode first before jumping in on vet for the better reward and they will feel they earned what they got if it drops in blue on normal and purple on vet.

I also know many will disagree with this in they worked hard to get the Master and Maelstrom versions that where removed and or changed but as stated above it does create more build diversity and also offers these players a way to work towards a better version of the weapon sets making the content played in both normal and vet modes more often for those that want them. I feel as a player that people should be rewarded with something on any mode of difficulty much like trials offer there sets in blue and purple and gold based on difficulty these other trials should do the same. This is just my opinion but I feel it might also draw more players to play the content to try to make for more build diversity and offer other ways to build out our characters till we get the better option.

theamazingx · September 2017

If they did, the imperfect versions would end up weak to the point that they're not even worth using. The only exceptions might be a maelstrom bow and a masters resto.

Vma in it's current state is a great place to introduce players to the level of gameplay and personal responsibility they'll find in later vet group content, and vdsa is a great place for strong 4man groups that don't like the trial environment; both perfect places to reward unique "endgame" weapons. Their only failing was the degree of the terrible grind, which transmutation nullifies. Normal malestrom, on the other hand, is easy to the point that I've leveled sub-50 toons in there when I had no skyreach partner by oneshotting everything with force shock, and I find nDSA easier to solo than most of the normal dlc dungeons. At least normal Asylum requires some level of group coordination to be rewarded.

Should also note, "build diversity" isn't really an issue within the crowd that can't clear vma/vdsa. Cookie cutter build copies only occur in min/maxing endgame, outside of that it's just a buzzword, a completely hollow argument.

SodanTok · September 2017

The difficulty of content to get them cant rly compare. You can solo vma with your eyes closed, you can solo DSA with fewer problems than VMA on the other hand pug-ing through normal trial is imo way above in difficulty than doing vma (tho you can get carried i guess)

The build diversity bit is also really not existent. Either these weapons will be too bad or too good. So people will not use them or everyone will use them. Like VMA bow, everyone than can do vma has it and uses it. There is actually far greater diversity in the mid tier of players, because many do not have it.

It would help diversity with master weapons based on current situation, because nobody wants to even do VDSA let alone with pug. That can change with this patch.

Btw those are all 'remarks' as unbiased as I can do them. I dont have for example master bow and if there was easier way to get it (even if little worse) I would jump on it

Nolic1 · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

If they did, the imperfect versions would end up weak to the point that they're not even worth using. The only exceptions might be a maelstrom bow and a masters resto.

Vma in it's current state is a great place to introduce players to the level of gameplay and personal responsibility they'll find in later vet group content, and vdsa is a great place for strong 4man groups that don't like the trial environment; both perfect places to reward unique "endgame" weapons. Their only failing was the degree of the terrible grind, which transmutation nullifies. Normal malestrom, on the other hand, is easy to the point that I've leveled sub-50 toons in there when I had no skyreach partner by oneshotting everything with force shock, and I find nDSA easier to solo than most of the normal dlc dungeons. At least normal Asylum requires some level of group coordination to be rewarded.

Should also note, "build diversity" isn't really an issue within the crowd that can't clear vma/vdsa. Cookie cutter build copies only occur in min/maxing endgame, outside of that it's just a buzzword, a completely hollow argument.

So your saying that they are not worth the time to get but turn around and say that some would be good nice contradiction. Then you say vMA is a good learning place and will teach them how to work in a group when its solo content again contradiction into its self. Yet you say DSA is for Strong 4 man groups but to easy to solo on normal if that was the case you could solo vet with ease. Then you say vMA is where you level toons but can not be done till you hit level 45 on vet. Now you say Asylum is hard group content but has been completed on normal where you get the Asylum weapons any way you complete it making it easy 12 man content to get the normal versions and trust me you just need a decent group to get it cause you do not need to do it where you fight all 4 bosses at once like you do to get perfect asylum. So not that hard to get a normal version.

As for the build diversity saying that its not an issue with those that can not clear vMA or DSA then you your self are saying that that content is difficult for them and they need cookie cutter builds to do it which means they need the best builds to complete it. Making build diversity only go down to a hand full of builds and not have as many as you are saying and yet another contradiction to what you are saying. And there for not a hollow argument or buzzword your using it as a scape goat to promote the game being diverse but yet you say "Cookie cutter build copies only occur in min/maxing endgame, outside of that it's just a buzzword, a completely hollow argument".

Qbiken · September 2017

I think Asylum weapons should only drop from vet, that would make it more consistant with how drops work in other trials (like vDSA and vMA).

Nolic1 · September 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

The difficulty of content to get them cant rly compare. You can solo vma with your eyes closed, you can solo DSA with fewer problems than VMA on the other hand pug-ing through normal trial is imo way above in difficulty than doing vma (tho you can get carried i guess)

The build diversity bit is also really not existent. Either these weapons will be too bad or too good. So people will not use them or everyone will use them. Like VMA bow, everyone than can do vma has it and uses it. There is actually far greater diversity in the mid tier of players, because many do not have it.

It would help diversity with master weapons based on current situation, because nobody wants to even do VDSA let alone with pug. That can change with this patch.

Btw those are all 'remarks' as unbiased as I can do them. I dont have for example master bow and if there was easier way to get it (even if little worse) I would jump on it

Thanks for your reply. Them adding Normal Master and Maelstrom weapon sets to normal will be no more difficult to get then asylum is to get because to get that you only have to complete normal mode not even at the harder difficulty with all 3 bosses just go through kill the first 2 bosses and then the final one which is quite easy to do and you get a normal asylum weapon. But if you want a Perfect one you have to play it by fighting all 3 bosses on vet making the challenge the hardest this has to offer much like DSA and Maelstrom do for there sets.

Dymence · September 2017

There's a simple rule of thumb for these weapons.

If you are unable to clear the content, then you don't need the weapons. Because you won't be able to get the proper use out of them anyways.

theamazingx · September 2017

Nolic1 wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

If they did, the imperfect versions would end up weak to the point that they're not even worth using. The only exceptions might be a maelstrom bow and a masters resto.

Vma in it's current state is a great place to introduce players to the level of gameplay and personal responsibility they'll find in later vet group content, and vdsa is a great place for strong 4man groups that don't like the trial environment; both perfect places to reward unique "endgame" weapons. Their only failing was the degree of the terrible grind, which transmutation nullifies. Normal malestrom, on the other hand, is easy to the point that I've leveled sub-50 toons in there when I had no skyreach partner by oneshotting everything with force shock, and I find nDSA easier to solo than most of the normal dlc dungeons. At least normal Asylum requires some level of group coordination to be rewarded.

Should also note, "build diversity" isn't really an issue within the crowd that can't clear vma/vdsa. Cookie cutter build copies only occur in min/maxing endgame, outside of that it's just a buzzword, a completely hollow argument.

So your saying that they are not worth the time to get but turn around and say that some would be good nice contradiction. Then you say vMA is a good learning place and will teach them how to work in a group when its solo content again contradiction into its self. Yet you say DSA is for Strong 4 man groups but to easy to solo on normal if that was the case you could solo vet with ease. Then you say vMA is where you level toons but can not be done till you hit level 45 on vet. Now you say Asylum is hard group content but has been completed on normal where you get the Asylum weapons any way you complete it making it easy 12 man content to get the normal versions and trust me you just need a decent group to get it cause you do not need to do it where you fight all 4 bosses at once like you do to get perfect asylum. So not that hard to get a normal version.

As for the build diversity saying that its not an issue with those that can not clear vMA or DSA then you your self are saying that that content is difficult for them and they need cookie cutter builds to do it which means they need the best builds to complete it. Making build diversity only go down to a hand full of builds and not have as many as you are saying and yet another contradiction to what you are saying. And there for not a hollow argument or buzzword your using it as a scape goat to promote the game being diverse but yet you say "Cookie cutter build copies only occur in min/maxing endgame, outside of that it's just a buzzword, a completely hollow argument".

Obviously it would depend on how weak the imperfect versions are. Asylum weapons aren't even consistent in that respect so there's no way to estimate. I started with this to explain why, even from a selfish perspective, this wouldn't really be a helpful thing for anyone. The rest was why it wouldn't be sensible for the game as a whole.

I didn't say that vMA is a good way to prep for group content, I said that it prepares for the personal responsibility and difficulty of harder group content.

The gap between vDSA/vMA and their "normal" counterparts is massive, and that's my point. I don't know why you think that means vDSA is as easy to solo as nDSA.

I didn't say vMA is where I level toons, I said nMA is. That's just you not reading my post.

I didn't say normal AS was hard, just that it took more effort than easily soloable content like nMA and nDSA. I actually don't like that they made that decision, but it doesn't matter much since the weapons in their current state are mostly trash.

Finally, I didn't say you need cookie cutter builds to clear that content. I said that the "lack of diversity" problem only exists well beyond that content.

Read a post before responding, don't just skim it.

theamazingx · September 2017

Dymence wrote: »

There's a simple rule of thumb for these weapons.

If you are unable to clear the content, then you don't need the weapons. Because you won't be able to get the proper use out of them anyways.

I think this is the major point that just goes over some people's heads. By all means, demand the unique motif be made available, demand an easier version to experience the same content, that's all dandy. But what makes someone that can't clear vma think that the next sensible step in their progression is a vma weapon?

Nolic1 · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

There's a simple rule of thumb for these weapons.

If you are unable to clear the content, then you don't need the weapons. Because you won't be able to get the proper use out of them anyways.

I think this is the major point that just goes over some people's heads. By all means, demand the unique motif be made available, demand an easier version to experience the same content, that's all dandy. But what makes someone that can't clear vma think that the next sensible step in their progression is a vma weapon?

Then why have a vet mode at all if its not to improve the gear we get in normal. These items where changed to a set making them as viable as running a monster set. This has been proven by Gilliam the rogue and Alcast both and yet I have seen groups run the new content on normal for the Asylum gear and do the whole trial in under 30 mins and get the normal versions of these items with little effort much like normal content is now. But if you want a Maelstrom or Master set you have to run them on vet only to get them making the Asylum set unique to the others but as easy or easier to get and with that you could get to the point where your taking on all 3 bosses in normal making vet easier to do when you get there them making that the easiest weapon set in the game to get versus the other 2 for new and old player alike meaning the other items with not be used when these are as good as them.

Now I am not saying the item sets are better just that they show good when used the right way in a build and trust me there will be builds using all these just like we had when master and maelstrom added to the game then in time the will get weeded down to only like 3 or 4 options being best and thats when will see many just using those for that purpose or build.

Nolic1 · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Obviously it would depend on how weak the imperfect versions are. Asylum weapons aren't even consistent in that respect so there's no way to estimate. I started with this to explain why, even from a selfish perspective, this wouldn't really be a helpful thing for anyone. The rest was why it wouldn't be sensible for the game as a whole.

I didn't say that vMA is a good way to prep for group content, I said that it prepares for the personal responsibility and difficulty of harder group content.

The gap between vDSA/vMA and their "normal" counterparts is massive, and that's my point. I don't know why you think that means vDSA is as easy to solo as nDSA.

I didn't say vMA is where I level toons, I said nMA is. That's just you not reading my post.

I didn't say normal AS was hard, just that it took more effort than easily soloable content like nMA and nDSA. I actually don't like that they made that decision, but it doesn't matter much since the weapons in their current state are mostly trash.

Finally, I didn't say you need cookie cutter builds to clear that content. I said that the "lack of diversity" problem only exists well beyond that content.

Read a post before responding, don't just skim it.

I did read your post but you where not as clear as your are this time and do have to say sorry was not trying to sound like and ass. So I am sorry I did what I did it was wrong.

The new trial has 2 ways to play it one where you can take the bosses on by them selves and one where you fight all 3 at one time. Now fighting all 3 at one time is not easy its a challenge but to get the normal version you only have to kill the 3 by them selves to get it making this as easy as normal DSA and Maelstrom. There for there is no reason why they should not add a normal version of those weapon sets to them this allows the player to get the base or normal version and then play through on vet cause they have had time to learn the content and master the use of there new weapons plus then they can use these normal versions to help get the perfect versions of them.

What I am saying is if they have one set that is easy to get but the other ones not to easy which will many go for instead of the others the ones with the least head ache to get. And this will only add to many of the problems we see today with people complaining about rng cause they can change the trait but do you want to change the trait on the normal one or the perfect one. This creates alot more then build diversity this adds alot of new people want to learn the content for these items because they might want to use them other then a monster set which these have been showing the same on parses as having 2 5 pieces and a monster set or running these instead. I know with the normal versus the perfect asylum its like running a purple monster set versus a gold monster set so it should feel the same as running the normal maelstrom and master as it does for asylum.

static_recharge · September 2017

I like the idea of having an "imperfect" weapon drop from nMA and nDSA. At least then the content is worth more on normal and people can try out the Master / Maelstrom weapons before committing to vet. These versions would of course be weaker than the "perfect" ones. I even think the difference between imperfect and perfect Asylum weapons needs to be increased so that there is a noticable power gain for the perfect ones. The proposed imperfect and perfect Master / Maelstrom weapons should also have large stat differences so that it is worth it on veteran.

DPShiro · September 2017

Oh my Auri-El.....it's starting again.
Thanks ZoS, this time it's on you for handing out participation Asylum weapons on normal.

Nolic1 · September 2017

DPShiro wrote: »

Oh my Auri-El.....it's starting again.
Thanks ZoS, this time it's on you for handing out participation Asylum weapons on normal.

Honestly I think there should be just one version this having 2 is what made me create this post in the first place I see no reason why the other ones should be left to having one version when the newest set has 2. This creates an imbalance to the other 2 sets when we can get the new set easier then the old ones what do you think people will go after?

DeHei · September 2017

For what we need 2 kind of same weapon? For these few guys, who want to have a bigger P-e-n-i-s??
All should have access to best weapons and there shouldnt be 2 versions of weapons like they want to implementate with next update...
Just skill should make the difference in success and not the gear...

FoolishHuman · September 2017

Dymence wrote: »

There's a simple rule of thumb for these weapons.

If you are unable to clear the content, then you don't need the weapons. Because you won't be able to get the proper use out of them anyways.

Isn't it the other way around? If you can do the most difficult content without the weapon, what do you need it for?

AlMcFly · September 2017

Nolic1 wrote: »

I feel it should be changed to offer the same type of perfect and normal versions sense they all come from some of the harder content.

If the Asylum weapon set only offered one version then I can see it as being more balanced but sense it does not the other 2 weapon sets stand out as being better options because they offer only a perfect version.

*Since

Also, yes, I agree. There should be perfect and normal versions of these weapons, so that those who have conquered Vet have tangible, usable recognition for the accomplishment. Offering the same item in Normal is spitting in their faces. Titles as reward are junk.

I don't need the weapon, but as of CWC, there is zero incentive to do Vet. This is how you kill content.

idk · September 2017

What is different between the two levels of the asylum weapons doesn't correlate to MA and Master weapons.

Asylum weapons older a benefit that is time based and the shorter time for the not so perfect weapon doesn't really correlate to a weaker set bonus in the other special weapon sets.

Further, and most important, vDSA and vMA compare better to clearing the new trial on vet. Merely clearing the new trial on vet grants the regular Asylum weapon.

Also, ans unfortunately. Zos made the nDSA far to easy with the changes last year. Really sad.

Dymence · September 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

There's a simple rule of thumb for these weapons.

If you are unable to clear the content, then you don't need the weapons. Because you won't be able to get the proper use out of them anyways.

Isn't it the other way around? If you can do the most difficult content without the weapon, what do you need it for?

To go beyond? To have a never ending cycle of improving your own play?

Tannus15 · September 2017

I agree in principle.
I like things to be consistent.

My initial impulse is to reject the idea because of the effort I've gone to to get my maelstrom weapons, but when I think about it, what do I care if everyone is running around with an imperfect maelstrom bow or inferno staff?
If you're only getting 15k dps an imperfect bow isn't going to magically fix your rotation for you. So what if more healers are using master resto staffs? Is this somehow a bad thing?

yeah, I can get behind this proposal. People will still do vMA for titles or "perfect" versions.

I would like the imperfect to look different. maybe perfect weapons are gold and imperfect silver, but apart from that, go right ahead. No skin off my back.