I can't be the only one who frankly thinks that this way of combat balancing is poor.

ak_pvp · September 2017

This isn't even about specific notes classes/weapons/specs at all, I can live with that, its just the principle. In one thread I saw someone ask for similar, for the advice to be taken into account, what was said? Oh, well, test some more. As if we are clueless about how changes will affect the game that we play more than most devs do.

With PvE its fine, You can't get zerged down in PvE, mobs aren't running the latest meta builds, but it is seemingly all that ZOS cares about, and I am aware, they go for what makes them money but they are missing a fundamental issue, that if they make PvP good, then more players will come. PvP is meant to be a different battle every time, if people get board they can go play PvP for some unique comabt, but unfortunately, as many many people have mentioned, they are just met with lag and imbalance. What is done to fix that? Updates every 3 months, which cause issues in turn.

ZOS is part of a billion dollar+ company, yet it feels like it has 2 people working on combat and PvP. Look at facepunch, the company behind rust. That game has less players, and the company is much smaller, but there we get weekly updates, constant developer communication and more. They may not roll out brand new content every week, but they do implement new fixes. ZOS should really take a leaf out of that book and have experimental combat changes with. And you can bet your bottom dollar that everyone in BOTH PvE and PvP would rather a week of imbalance than 3 months of it.

We test things, give our feedback, pay for content and the like, and we are met with balance attempts that fix nothing and that no one asked for. Fengrush mentioned it in his latest rantview of the patch notes, YET AGAIN nothing for cyro. Its very nearly the same as it was 2 yr ago, just with some other class at the top of the wheel. Just take Templar for example, scaling bugs, and useless abilities leaving them at the bottom of the pile. The fix? Remove a stun and change useless abilities to slightly different still useless abilities that NO ONE ASKED FOR. Like I said above, this 3 month system only works for PvE, and not even fully there, warden is still underdog there by far. But not at all for PvP. Even fortnightly updates with small skill balances or changes would help, remember hulking draugr's 40 stam change. Doubt it took 3 month to think of that.

ToRelax · September 2017

Well I may not agree with many balance changes that ZOS introduces (although it has become somewhat better with that over the past year or so), but I think they still do a better job than most players would. Including you, from what I've seen.

ak_pvp · September 2017

ToRelax wrote: »

Well I may not agree with many balance changes that ZOS introduces (although it has become somewhat better with that over the past year or so), but I think they still do a better job than most players would. Including you, from what I've seen.

Flair.

Sorc.

Checks out

Gan Xing · September 2017

In terms of mechanics, I think Rust is simpler than ESO. They don't have a large range of magic abilities, or classes. It is just a player who can run around with clothes that gives basic armor, and a gun or melee weapon that deals flat damage when it hits the target (and critical damage when there is a headshot).

ESO is more complicated and while I think ZOS could definitely do a better job at balance, I understand that the majority of their staff isn't centered around combat and balance. They have staff working on new material, they have staff focused on fixing old non-combat material, and then they have staff focused on combat. @Wrobel is one of them, and he is accused of being a sorc lover (and from what i've seen this past 3 years, it certainly seems to suggest that this is the case). I obviously don't work there, but in general, coding and finding problems and figuring out how to fix them takes a ton of time.

I have my own critiques about combat in this game. Specifically animation cancelling (which they basically said, "It's a mechanic, L2P"), as well as *** balances, and a weak warden class (and I know they want this class to be focused on PvE/support, but sometimes that support means DPS, and Wardens have *** DPS (which is not burst... Wardens have good burst damage).

If they want to have combat be more diverse, I think they are going about it the wrong way. If they are encouraging hybrid gameplay (such is my playstyle, tragically), they have made it incredibly difficult.

Sure, they have said that they aren't so transparent so that they don't promise that they are looking at something and then decide to can it. But I think they should be a tad bit more transparent then they currently are.

Biro123 · September 2017

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

STEVIL · September 2017

Did you consult with the thread makers of the "changes too often" threads?

zyk · September 2017

Combat systems have to be designed with balance in mind from the ground up. There needs to be an underlying methodology that results in balance. I believe ZOS has already stated that was not the case for ESO.

When I think about balancing this game, I get a headache. I think the only way to do it would be to redesign the game from the ground up.

Even if that were to happen, I think there would be too much pushback and angst from the community who now have thoroughly biased views and most of us likely cannot see the forest from the trees. Myself included; I presume, for I cannot actually see it.

ZOS has addressed balancing by constantly increasing complexity. By adding new layers and new rules. That is a path that only makes the system more difficult to manage and grasp.

ak_pvp · September 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Did you consult with the thread makers of the "changes too often" threads?

The changes too often is in regard to sets. Most bis sets get nerfed. Bsw, Necro, black rose, procs, desert rose, trainee etc. In a way they are right.
The issue also stems from people using and grinding for these sets for 3/6months and getting nerfed out of knowhere. This wouldn't be a problem if they adjusted broken sets quicker. Cough cough 1yr procs.

SanTii.92 · September 2017

Could you be more specific with what you'd like to see changed? You've only mention templars being bottom of the pile, and wardens being underdogs. Both statements very wrong.

MehrunesFlagon · September 2017

Might as well add in the fact that they need to quit being stupid,and balance pve and pvp separately already.

ak_pvp · September 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Not the question. Morrowind and HOTR "balanced" things by lowering sustain and nerfing procs. Now, how long have procs been in the game, how long did it take to nerf.

Would you call the mess of TTK balance, or the uncounterable abilities, or random nerfs to templar?

DDuke · September 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Could that be because there's less & less build diversity every patch? (Just an observation)

When everyone plays the same cookie cutter meta build, of course the game is going to feel more "balanced" - this is an illusion however.

If you want to know how good the balance has gotten, try running around as a medium armor user - or visit a duel spot & see how many medium armor builds there are.

STEVIL · September 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Might as well add in the fact that they need to quit being stupid,and balance pve and pvp separately already.

ye gads i hope not, not ever.

that way lies madness.

Mervyn · September 2017

there are some fundamental isssues with this game, that simply cant be "fixed", bacause they are .. well .. fundamental

scaling of damage by resourcepools, the animation structure of skills and casts ect

but the main reason for lack of changes seems to me, that they simply cant do anything. if i look at the time it takes them to fix some bugs, it is clear to me that they dont have full control over theyr own systems. the devs that work at ZOS seems to have just inherited this game from the original designers. that becomes even more evident when even brian wheeler says at some ESO LIVE that they rather not change some things out of fear to break some systems.
so they tinker around a bit here and there with some skills, but i have never the impression there is some structure, plan or concept behind all of it.

STEVIL · September 2017

Mervyn wrote: »

there are some fundamental isssues with this game, that simply cant be "fixed", bacause they are .. well .. fundamental

scaling of damage by resourcepools, the animation structure of skills and casts ect

but the main reason for lack of changes seems to me, that they simply cant do anything. if i look at the time it takes them to fix some bugs, it is clear to me that they dont have full control over theyr own systems. the devs that work at ZOS seems to have just inherited this game from the original designers. that becomes even more evident when even brian wheeler says at some ESO LIVE that they rather not change some things out of fear to break some systems.
so they tinker around a bit here and there with some skills, but i have never the impression there is some structure, plan or concept behind all of it.

That is more of an issue of how interwoven some things are than an indicator that they dont know what they inherited well.

Anyone involved in l,ong-running complex coded systems knows that you easily end up with interwoven sub-systems of sweeping scope behind the scenes where touching them is only done when absolutely necessary ciuz it spawns a risk of so many changes.

Any developer who did not assess scope and potential consequences and reach decisions that things that are small problems are sometimes riskier to fix than to live with or workaround is not worth the salary.

Biro123 · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Could that be because there's less & less build diversity every patch? (Just an observation)

When everyone plays the same cookie cutter meta build, of course the game is going to feel more "balanced" - this is an illusion however.

If you want to know how good the balance has gotten, try running around as a medium armor user - or visit a duel spot & see how many medium armor builds there are.

Does everything you post come back to medium armour? And why do you always start by assuming everyone disagrees with you on it?

I actually think there is more diversity now. People are using a much bigger selection of traits and munduses, more sets are used (but there is still work do do here, as some are still obviously weaker than others).

I mean, I remember when nobody used hvy in PvP, all the stam classes used med. They addressed that by tweaking heavy, went too far, so pulled it back a bit. Still more work to be done, but its closer.

But in terms of overall balance, it is better. Med may be weak at the mo, but no class has to use it. There are options. And at the minute, I think the classes, with decent builds, are the most balanced I've seen for a long time (probably ever) in most open-world situations.

FWIW, I dusted off my old stamblade that I've not played for about 2 years. And set up a med build. Still learning to play and missing a few key skills/morphs. Will let you know how it goes.

DDuke · September 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Could that be because there's less & less build diversity every patch? (Just an observation)

When everyone plays the same cookie cutter meta build, of course the game is going to feel more "balanced" - this is an illusion however.

If you want to know how good the balance has gotten, try running around as a medium armor user - or visit a duel spot & see how many medium armor builds there are.

Does everything you post come back to medium armour? And why do you always start by assuming everyone disagrees with you on it?

I actually think there is more diversity now. People are using a much bigger selection of traits and munduses, more sets are used (but there is still work do do here, as some are still obviously weaker than others).

I mean, I remember when nobody used hvy in PvP, all the stam classes used med. They addressed that by tweaking heavy, went too far, so pulled it back a bit. Still more work to be done, but its closer.

But in terms of overall balance, it is better. Med may be weak at the mo, but no class has to use it. There are options. And at the minute, I think the classes, with decent builds, are the most balanced I've seen for a long time (probably ever) in most open-world situations.

FWIW, I dusted off my old stamblade that I've not played for about 2 years. And set up a med build. Still learning to play and missing a few key skills/morphs. Will let you know how it goes.

I brought up medium because at the moment you have 1/3rd of the armor types in game largely unviable & unused - there simply can't be more diversity on that premise alone.

Heavy armor even before buffs wasn't unviable, it was actually BiS for many builds. Magicka DKs for example never used light armor back in the days, and I think I proved with my magplar back in 2016 that it could be meta on templar as well.

Here's how it's been for medium/stamina builds though:
2014-2015 Medium is fine, bow builds are viable, 2H builds are viable, DW builds are viable, S&B builds are viable
2015-2016 Medium is fine, bow builds are viable, 2H builds are viable, DW builds are viable, S&B builds are viable
2016-2017 Medium is fine, bow builds are viable, 2H builds are meta, DW builds are viable, S&B builds are meta
2017- Medium is fine, bow builds are viable, 2H builds are meta, DW builds are viable, S&B builds are meta

It's been going downhill for a while now...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · September 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

No they heavy nerf and over buff every patch so balance seems better and better cause well you don’t have many options. With 15 powers per class and three ultimate plus the weapon and guild skill lines you should be able to tell someone your role DPS, healer or tank and them guess your whole build.

That’s the problem here balance sucks and every patch a new build dies.

Xsorus · September 2017

Still having zero issue with medium in pvp, still wondering why people are crying.

Ocelot9x · September 2017

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

Xsorus · September 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

DDuke · September 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Xsorus · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

DDuke · September 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

I don't know, maybe so you don't have to run Impregnable or other defensive set just to get even with heavy armor in terms of mitigation?

Especially when those dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing these days.

Unless you've changed your build, I remember it also had extremely low weapon damage & stamina regen - meaning there's no real reason to even run medium.

Xsorus · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

I don't know, maybe so you don't have to run Impregnable or other defensive set just to get even with heavy armor in terms of mitigation?

Especially when those dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing these days.

Unless you've changed your build, I remember it also had extremely low weapon damage & stamina regen - meaning there's no real reason to even run medium.

You keep saying dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing but we both know that's not true. do you dodge everything? Nope.. but you can dodge quite a damn bit hence why it's far better then to sit there and take a beating to the face and hope I don't get overwhelmed by the Zerg.

*shrug* I don't know; maybe some people like dying and running back constantly. I prefer to be able to get away.

Nifty2g · September 2017

because currently and in the near future they are refusing to split pve and pvp up, they want it to be an easy transition between the two not to "confuse" players with different skills with different functionality.

Honestly this is where and will continue to cause majority of the issues with balance. Though their solution to that is to make the game as a whole more simplified.

DDuke · September 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

I don't know, maybe so you don't have to run Impregnable or other defensive set just to get even with heavy armor in terms of mitigation?

Especially when those dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing these days.

Unless you've changed your build, I remember it also had extremely low weapon damage & stamina regen - meaning there's no real reason to even run medium.

You keep saying dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing but we both know that's not true. do you dodge everything? Nope.. but you can dodge quite a damn bit hence why it's far better then to sit there and take a beating to the face and hope I don't get overwhelmed by the Zerg.

*shrug* I don't know; maybe some people like dying and running back constantly. I prefer to be able to get away.

Well, I guess I can agree with that - medium armor is good at running away.

I'm looking at things more from 1v1/1vX perspective however.
As long as medium can't beat the meta Legion+Fury builds & Soul Assault heroes with 15k shields, I'm going to keep complaining. I'm not interested in running away unless I'm severely outnumbered.

I didn't say nothing btw, I said next to nothing, which is quite accurate. Dodgeable attacks ironically mostly come from other stamina builds (stamplar/stam warden being the exceptions).

Xsorus · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

I don't know, maybe so you don't have to run Impregnable or other defensive set just to get even with heavy armor in terms of mitigation?

Especially when those dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing these days.

Unless you've changed your build, I remember it also had extremely low weapon damage & stamina regen - meaning there's no real reason to even run medium.

You keep saying dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing but we both know that's not true. do you dodge everything? Nope.. but you can dodge quite a damn bit hence why it's far better then to sit there and take a beating to the face and hope I don't get overwhelmed by the Zerg.

*shrug* I don't know; maybe some people like dying and running back constantly. I prefer to be able to get away.

Well, I guess I can agree with that - medium armor is good at running away.

I'm looking at things more from 1v1/1vX perspective however.
As long as medium can't beat the meta Legion+Fury builds & Soul Assault heroes with 15k shields, I'm going to keep complaining. I'm not interested in running away unless I'm severely outnumbered.

I didn't say nothing btw, I said next to nothing, which is quite accurate. Dodgeable attacks ironically mostly come from other stamina builds (stamplar/stam warden being the exceptions).

I do fine right now against most targets, magicka sorcs give me trouble because I swapped from vipers to spriggans and I've not decided how I like that set yet. I'll get another bump in power next patch when I can use DSA daggers for the rend increase.

I don't look forward to farming that either *grin*

How is that bleed set from the new dungeons? One that applies the 10k bleed after 1 second. You try that out?

Marto · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Could that be because there's less & less build diversity every patch? (Just an observation)

Uh... what?

Cookie cutter builds are on their way out. Options have never been more plentiful than they are now.

Before HotR and Morrowind, the meta was Twin-Fang Snake + Vicious Ophidian for Stamina DPS. You had options, but all your options did the same, but were weaker (Like Spriggans instead of TFS)

Now, all you need to do to make an endgame build is reach 35k stamina, 17k health, 3500 weapon damage 10k penetration, and at least 1000 recovery.

You have many options to achieve those numbers.

Instead of getting penetration from TFS or Spriggans, you can get it from The Lover. Instead of getting recovery from Vicious Ophidian, you can create a heavy-attack-weave build. Or you can get penetration from your Champion Points in a far more efficient way, thanks to the Morrowind CP rebalance.

Want more stamina to boost templar skills? Try Hulkin Draugr or Pirate Skeleton. Want more weapon damage and crit? Try Hunding's Rage, one of the most buffed sets in HotR patch. You can also try Automaton if your build is based on physical damage.

If you have a good tank, feel free to ditch Sharpened in exchange for nirnhoned, infused or precise. If you have enough penetration from CP, you can return to sharpened and use two, non-penetration item sets.

2H has never been stronger and more viable, with a more situational moveset, but just as strong as DW.

There's still some negative aspects to the current balance, like the overnefing of Shadow/Thief, and the overbuffing of Warrior. Bow builds are still weak, and DoTs are clearly superior to direct damage...

But if you truly still believe that this game doesn't offer you build diversity, then simply put:

You do not know how to play this game.

DDuke · September 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Xsorus maybe because not everyone's a nighblade or some people don't like to run in a zerg,pick one.

Going back IT,I'm not sad about balancing,but how slow is the process. I'm not asking for a weekly tweak,but at least monthly,it's so painful to wait months to see something nerfed or buffed and then another 3 months of cheese abusing,rinse and repeat.
OP is right,its a big company and the game is alive but still we get a patch every 3 months like some empty indie game in perma alpha testing.
Despite that cheers to zenimax for having the best support team I've met so far.

I have a stamina nightblade I play in medium; but I was referring to my stamina sorc I play in medium.

Yeah, you play a S&B tank build. In medium.

You could do that in heavy armor, drop Impregnable or whatever defensive set you're running now & equip an offensive set that actually allows you to kill players with heals/shields on their bar - all without really losing any mitigation.

Why would I give up multiple dodge rolls and layered defense for heavy armor that wouldn't improve my durability and would limit my mobility in pvp?

I don't know, maybe so you don't have to run Impregnable or other defensive set just to get even with heavy armor in terms of mitigation?

Especially when those dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing these days.

Unless you've changed your build, I remember it also had extremely low weapon damage & stamina regen - meaning there's no real reason to even run medium.

You keep saying dodge rolls accomplish next to nothing but we both know that's not true. do you dodge everything? Nope.. but you can dodge quite a damn bit hence why it's far better then to sit there and take a beating to the face and hope I don't get overwhelmed by the Zerg.

*shrug* I don't know; maybe some people like dying and running back constantly. I prefer to be able to get away.

Well, I guess I can agree with that - medium armor is good at running away.

I'm looking at things more from 1v1/1vX perspective however.
As long as medium can't beat the meta Legion+Fury builds & Soul Assault heroes with 15k shields, I'm going to keep complaining. I'm not interested in running away unless I'm severely outnumbered.

I didn't say nothing btw, I said next to nothing, which is quite accurate. Dodgeable attacks ironically mostly come from other stamina builds (stamplar/stam warden being the exceptions).

I do fine right now against most targets, magicka sorcs give me trouble because I swapped from vipers to spriggans and I've not decided how I like that set yet. I'll get another bump in power next patch when I can use DSA daggers for the rend increase.

I don't look forward to farming that either *grin*

How is that bleed set from the new dungeons? One that applies the 10k bleed after 1 second. You try that out?

It's not very good - you get similar DoT with Sheer Venom much more reliably & swap one crit bonus for weapon dmg. I guess if you run without a bow it's an option, but keep in mind that it's tied to a proc chance and the proc itself is on a delay and dodgeable (or you can just walk out of it).

You say you do fine vs most targets - but I seriously doubt you have enough damage with that setup to deal with the Legion Fury meta builds or big shields. It's often tough even with 5k weapon dmg burst lined up with Selene proc to get through these setups (assuming I live long enough to combo and it isn't dodged/blocked).

You simply give up too much damage if you try to play tanky on medium armor (where as you wouldn't have to give up virtually any dmg in heavy).

DDuke · September 2017

Marto wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Every patch people complain about the changes, accuse the devs of being clueless etc.

Yet every patch, overall balance magically gets better and better.

Just an observation.

Could that be because there's less & less build diversity every patch? (Just an observation)

Uh... what?

Cookie cutter builds are on their way out. Options have never been more plentiful than they are now.

Before HotR and Morrowind, the meta was Twin-Fang Snake + Vicious Ophidian for Stamina DPS. You had options, but all your options did the same, but were weaker (Like Spriggans instead of TFS)

Now, all you need to do to make an endgame build is reach 35k stamina, 17k health, 3500 weapon damage 10k penetration, and at least 1000 recovery.

You have many options to achieve those numbers.

Instead of getting penetration from TFS or Spriggans, you can get it from The Lover. Instead of getting recovery from Vicious Ophidian, you can create a heavy-attack-weave build. Or you can get penetration from your Champion Points in a far more efficient way, thanks to the Morrowind CP rebalance.

Want more stamina to boost templar skills? Try Hulkin Draugr or Pirate Skeleton. Want more weapon damage and crit? Try Hunding's Rage, one of the most buffed sets in HotR patch. You can also try Automaton if your build is based on physical damage.

If you have a good tank, feel free to ditch Sharpened in exchange for nirnhoned, infused or precise. If you have enough penetration from CP, you can return to sharpened and use two, non-penetration item sets.

2H has never been stronger and more viable, with a more situational moveset, but just as strong as DW.

There's still some negative aspects to the current balance, like the overnefing of Shadow/Thief, and the overbuffing of Warrior. Bow builds are still weak, and DoTs are clearly superior to direct damage...

But if you truly still believe that this game doesn't offer you build diversity, then simply put:

You do not know how to play this game.

I was obviously referring to PvP, not PvE.

You do not know how to think before writing essays.