Which Two Sets for PvP Archer

thedude33 · September 2017

Spriggans, Hunding, Archers Mind ?

I have Spriggans and Hunding, was wondering if Archers Mind should replace one of those ?

Or any other suggestions

Thanks

Brrrofski · September 2017

Marksman gives you 8% damage with bow abilities against players. Not sure if that outweighs other 5 pieces or not.

Minno · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Marksman gives you 8% damage with bow abilities against players. Not sure if that outweighs other 5 pieces or not.

I'd say penetration is more important for PvP. You don't have the option to slot a mace that will reduce their armor by 20%. Sharpened+Lord mundas+CP+debuff should be enough to get. Spriggans doesn't help your healing, which you'll need Stam/wd to offset the lack of DMG from bow and crit DMG to make use of the crit passive from the bow line.

I've been eyeing a bow main bar pvp build but haven't had to time to test or finalize it.

thedude33 · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Marksman gives you 8% damage with bow abilities against players. Not sure if that outweighs other 5 pieces or not.

I have Marksman also. Just seems like a sustain set to me, not damage.

Sedare · September 2017

the 8% from marksman isn't enough to outweigh the raw weapon damage of hundings. I still like hundings, kena, bloodspawn (or veli), agility + master/maelstrom bow for bow build. Serpent mundus for regen. Or Forego hundings and do nightmothers (deshaan zone droppable set) for even more recovery and only slightly less damage than what hundings gives. You can also combine hundings/nightmothers/kena or bloodspawn as 5/5/1.

up to you and depends on what you're trying to do (super burst, sustain, are you an NB, etc).

Minno · September 2017

thedude33 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Marksman gives you 8% damage with bow abilities against players. Not sure if that outweighs other 5 pieces or not.

I have Marksman also. Just seems like a sustain set to me, not damage.

That cost reduction is not bad. But bone pirate with camo drink might give better sustain while also giving DMG.

He can also try senches bite. Have so that you give yourself the 5pc on the bow bar and activate another 5pc on the backbar. This way he can roll dodge, get major expedition, and get a huge DMG buff on his abilities. Would be cool; more of a skirmish spec.

thedude33 · September 2017

I am looking for more bow damage and less melee action. If someone gets on me in melee, I'm dead. Even if I was in full heavy.

The only armor I can acquire is crafted and/or Guild Trader. Dungeon stuff a no go.

Sedare · September 2017

thedude33 wrote: »

I am looking for more bow damage and less melee action. If someone gets on me in melee, I'm dead. Even if I was in full heavy.

The only armor I can acquire is crafted and/or Guild Trader. Dungeon stuff a no go.

Hundings/Nightmother it's craftable and bind on equip respectively and the boe is cheap to buy/farm. then rando 1 weapons. If you don't do undaunted dailies to get keys for should/helms the above will sort you out.

I play bow/2h almost exclusively. if you have questions hit me up in game. I don't claim to be good, great, or elite, but I do claim to be a pain in the arse to others.

What faction are you on as well?

SodanTok · September 2017

Would have to test if Marksman is really giving the 8% increase or with all the CP and other bonuses in it it is less (like happens to hawk eye or long shots), but if it is really really 8% and you lack any other source of penetration, it would be better than spriggan vs any enemies up to ~24k resistance. That is imho majority and the sustain is nice bonus.
If you already have some penetration, like 5280 from major fracture it would be better up to 30k.

But I dont really believe it is true 8%

Regarding Hunding, marksmen already has half of the WD of hunding and even without it the 8% (again if it is 8%) would be better than 300WD any day. You will heal for more with hunding, but IMO with the sustain and nearly half WD hunding has, you are better with marksmen

And archers mind is archers mind. It is 10%15% sneak crit damage, if you are ganking and want to kill targets in few shots which will nearly always be crits, then it is better than anything probably.

Brrrofski · September 2017

The thing about penetration is that it doesn't make any difference to shields. The set has a lot of sustain, which means you don't need to get it from another source. I imagine being bow/bow requires a lot of moving and kiting, so regen is probably not too useless. Shuffle spam to remove snares, dodge rolling etc etc

Never tried bow/bow, but it is definitely worth testing it out. Comes in jewellery and it pretty crappy to get.

gabriebe · September 2017

Marksman + Morag Tong works quite well for ganking, with 1x Krah for extra phys penetration. I'm running sharp on the bow, but I may switch to Nirnhorned once transmutation is available. Both sets are extremely newbie friendly as you can get the whole setup under 25k or with AP from the elite/Cyro town vendors.

Sedare · September 2017

also get your undaunted to 9. the passives are worth it, particularly the 2nd. do 1 heavy rest medium (medium benefits way outweigh putting on 1 light for more undaunted passive.

Brrrofski wrote: »

The thing about penetration is that it doesn't make any difference to shields. The set has a lot of sustain, which means you don't need to get it from another source. I imagine being bow/bow requires a lot of moving and kiting, so regen is probably not too useless. Shuffle spam to remove snares, dodge rolling etc etc

Never tried bow/bow, but it is definitely worth testing it out. Comes in jewellery and it pretty crappy to get.

you don't want to do bow/bow. you need a weap buff from either d/w or 2h (unless you have a self buff like sorc/dk. 2h is best for rally heal as well or momentum to get rid of snares. Your 2h can be a buff/cleanse bar or when you gotta get close up and you will get close up.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Sedare wrote: »

also get your undaunted to 9. the passives are worth it, particularly the 2nd. do 1 heavy rest medium (medium benefits way outweigh putting on 1 light for more undaunted passive.

Brrrofski wrote: »

The thing about penetration is that it doesn't make any difference to shields. The set has a lot of sustain, which means you don't need to get it from another source. I imagine being bow/bow requires a lot of moving and kiting, so regen is probably not too useless. Shuffle spam to remove snares, dodge rolling etc etc

Never tried bow/bow, but it is definitely worth testing it out. Comes in jewellery and it pretty crappy to get.

you don't want to do bow/bow. you need a weap buff from either d/w or 2h (unless you have a self buff like sorc/dk. 2h is best for rally heal as well or momentum to get rid of snares. Your 2h can be a buff/cleanse bar or when you gotta get close up and you will get close up.

I know that, I would never go bow bow. But op wants to. You can get brutality from pots(class skills too if sorc or DK) and snare removal from shuffle.

thedude33 · September 2017

I am bow/2H, for the 2H buffs.

Thanks for the replies. Will research some of the gear you suggested

Sedare · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Sedare wrote: »

also get your undaunted to 9. the passives are worth it, particularly the 2nd. do 1 heavy rest medium (medium benefits way outweigh putting on 1 light for more undaunted passive.

Brrrofski wrote: »

The thing about penetration is that it doesn't make any difference to shields. The set has a lot of sustain, which means you don't need to get it from another source. I imagine being bow/bow requires a lot of moving and kiting, so regen is probably not too useless. Shuffle spam to remove snares, dodge rolling etc etc

Never tried bow/bow, but it is definitely worth testing it out. Comes in jewellery and it pretty crappy to get.

you don't want to do bow/bow. you need a weap buff from either d/w or 2h (unless you have a self buff like sorc/dk. 2h is best for rally heal as well or momentum to get rid of snares. Your 2h can be a buff/cleanse bar or when you gotta get close up and you will get close up.

I know that, I would never go bow bow. But op wants to. You can get brutality from pots(class skills too if sorc or DK) and snare removal from shuffle.

True that. I just find using a pots at the front end for something like dmg is not bueno, but that's me. I use pots as escape/sustain sources.

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

Depends on class and goal. Sorc is by far the best setup for open pvp. NB offers the most ganking potential.

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Would have to test if Marksman is really giving the 8% increase or with all the CP and other bonuses in it it is less (like happens to hawk eye or long shots), but if it is really really 8% and you lack any other source of penetration, it would be better than spriggan vs any enemies up to ~24k resistance. That is imho majority and the sustain is nice bonus.
If you already have some penetration, like 5280 from major fracture it would be better up to 30k.

But I dont really believe it is true 8%

Regarding Hunding, marksmen already has half of the WD of hunding and even without it the 8% (again if it is 8%) would be better than 300WD any day. You will heal for more with hunding, but IMO with the sustain and nearly half WD hunding has, you are better with marksmen

And archers mind is archers mind. It is 10%15% sneak crit damage, if you are ganking and want to kill targets in few shots which will nearly always be crits, then it is better than anything probably.

I haven't checked against another set in over a year. I would tend to agree given the bow passives that you wouldn't be getting the full 8%. However you would be getting close to that on the front end, it just diminishes with Hawkeye stacks.

I used to run Hundings, but Marksman was slightly more damage, but that was over a year ago when I tested it. The cost reduction itself is a big reason to run Marksman. I agree about the resistances. players massively overrate the penetration needed and the effect of it.

I find in CP shields are some of your biggest obstacles, where as in no CP armor mitigation is more significant.

SodanTok · September 2017

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Would have to test if Marksman is really giving the 8% increase or with all the CP and other bonuses in it it is less (like happens to hawk eye or long shots), but if it is really really 8% and you lack any other source of penetration, it would be better than spriggan vs any enemies up to ~24k resistance. That is imho majority and the sustain is nice bonus.
If you already have some penetration, like 5280 from major fracture it would be better up to 30k.

But I dont really believe it is true 8%

Regarding Hunding, marksmen already has half of the WD of hunding and even without it the 8% (again if it is 8%) would be better than 300WD any day. You will heal for more with hunding, but IMO with the sustain and nearly half WD hunding has, you are better with marksmen

And archers mind is archers mind. It is 10%15% sneak crit damage, if you are ganking and want to kill targets in few shots which will nearly always be crits, then it is better than anything probably.

I haven't checked against another set in over a year. I would tend to agree given the bow passives that you wouldn't be getting the full 8%. However you would be getting close to that on the front end, it just diminishes with Hawkeye stacks.

I used to run Hundings, but Marksman was slightly more damage, but that was over a year ago when I tested it. The cost reduction itself is a big reason to run Marksman. I agree about the resistances. players massively overrate the penetration needed and the effect of it.

I find in CP shields are some of your biggest obstacles, where as in no CP armor mitigation is more significant.

Yeah, it is additive with CP same as bow passives so it will totally be different for different setups.
If you use just one light attack (5% hawk eye), full range (12% long shot), 10% CP to mighty, 20% CP to direct attacks and no penetration marksman would be ~5.5%.
I probably use some bad math here, but if I consider the damage increase from penetration of spriggan. If you have no other source of penetration, maskman will be better than spriggan (damage wise) to any targets with less than 3500 resistance. Which is damage gain only against shields. Basically if enemy has resistance more than 3500 higher than your penetration, spriggan is better. With very common sources of penetration (fracture + 2-3k in CP) spriggan will perform better or as good as marksmen versus any healthpol, worse only versus shields.

pdebie64b16_ESO · September 2017

For the psychical damage approach Hundings, Automaton, Kena works best for me with over 4k weapon damage, bow/2h with the warrior mundus.

Marksman is nice for the sustain but not needed for a Sniper.

For the poison approach i use Marksman, Sheer Venom, Kena. Marksman can be changed for Morag Tong if you dont have sustain issues.

Nemeliom · September 2017

Careful. If you are planning going with snipe gank don't. Miat addon is being used by everyone.

Minno · September 2017

Nemeliom wrote: »

Careful. If you are planning going with snipe gank don't. Miat addon is being used by everyone.

Console still read the forums too.

jaws343 · September 2017

Bow/Bow DK has potential to be fairly powerful with poisons and the ability to switch to class skills when combat gets close quarters.

I would run Shieldbreaker back bar, Hawk Eye front bar and Molag Kena.

Jade1986 · September 2017

gabriebe wrote: »

Marksman + Morag Tong works quite well for ganking, with 1x Krah for extra phys penetration. I'm running sharp on the bow, but I may switch to Nirnhorned once transmutation is available. Both sets are extremely newbie friendly as you can get the whole setup under 25k or with AP from the elite/Cyro town vendors.

I got that for less than 2,500 gold in the guild stores. Buy the greens, upgrade them yourself. The only thing Im having a problem finding is a sharpened bow

Minno · September 2017

gabriebe wrote: »

Marksman + Morag Tong works quite well for ganking, with 1x Krah for extra phys penetration. I'm running sharp on the bow, but I may switch to Nirnhorned once transmutation is available. Both sets are extremely newbie friendly as you can get the whole setup under 25k or with AP from the elite/Cyro town vendors.

I forgot about kra'g set. If you combo kra'g with kena you can do the following for the rest of your penetration:
- sharp
- lover mundas
- 2980 into CP

This will give you 10k penetration. But you'll need to find major fracture too make really good use of this penetration; which means nightblade lol. As NB you'll get 80% crit DMG+ a 15280 total pen debuff (which rivals mag using ele drain).

You can then use DMG enchants, flawless db + cripple grasp for unblock cc while having DB for the extra 5% DMG. I used senche for burst WD gain + barksin backbar for extra heal+ 50% reduction on snares+immobilze. Only problem is the ranged spamable, but combo of venom arrow for the silence cc + silver leaches might provide LA weave friendly sustain + burst from relentless focus.

I might run this build if I can get money to redo stats on my NB.

Nemeliom · September 2017

Minno wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Careful. If you are planning going with snipe gank don't. Miat addon is being used by everyone.

Console still read the forums too.

You are right. Sry.

DDuke · September 2017

Depends on what you're looking for.

To maximize Lethal Arrow tooltip, I'd go with 5x Marksman & 5x Morag Tong & either use vMA/Master Bow or 1x Veli/Kena for extra weapon dmg.

I wouldn't recommend playing bow currently though, borderline unplayable with Miat's addon letting people know when you're casting Snipe on them and light/heavy builds largely capable of mitigating/absorbing anything bow can dish out, while medium just dodges your snipes (thanks to Miat's & visual/audio cues).

Hopefully next patch will be more interesting for bow users.

Jade1986 · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Depends on what you're looking for.

To maximize Lethal Arrow tooltip, I'd go with 5x Marksman & 5x Morag Tong & either use vMA/Master Bow or 1x Veli/Kena for extra weapon dmg.

I wouldn't recommend playing bow currently though, borderline unplayable with Miat's addon letting people know when you're casting Snipe on them and light/heavy builds largely capable of mitigating/absorbing anything bow can dish out, while medium just dodges your snipes (thanks to Miat's & visual/audio cues).

Hopefully next patch will be more interesting for bow users.

I hate that addon. I put SO much time into my archer main and then that nonsense happens..... ugh......

But I was also thinking of morag tong, does the poison bonus work really well?

thedude33 · September 2017

Minno wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Marksman + Morag Tong works quite well for ganking, with 1x Krah for extra phys penetration. I'm running sharp on the bow, but I may switch to Nirnhorned once transmutation is available. Both sets are extremely newbie friendly as you can get the whole setup under 25k or with AP from the elite/Cyro town vendors.

I forgot about kra'g set. If you combo kra'g with kena you can do the following for the rest of your penetration:
- sharp
- lover mundas
- 2980 into CP

This will give you 10k penetration. But you'll need to find major fracture too make really good use of this penetration; which means nightblade lol. As NB you'll get 80% crit DMG+ a 15280 total pen debuff (which rivals mag using ele drain).

You can then use DMG enchants, flawless db + cripple grasp for unblock cc while having DB for the extra 5% DMG. I used senche for burst WD gain + barksin backbar for extra heal+ 50% reduction on snares+immobilze. Only problem is the ranged spamable, but combo of venom arrow for the silence cc + silver leaches might provide LA weave friendly sustain + burst from relentless focus.

I might run this build if I can get money to redo stats on my NB.

Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with all the abbreviations though

Minno · September 2017

thedude33 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

gabriebe wrote: »

Marksman + Morag Tong works quite well for ganking, with 1x Krah for extra phys penetration. I'm running sharp on the bow, but I may switch to Nirnhorned once transmutation is available. Both sets are extremely newbie friendly as you can get the whole setup under 25k or with AP from the elite/Cyro town vendors.

I forgot about kra'g set. If you combo kra'g with kena you can do the following for the rest of your penetration:
- sharp
- lover mundas
- 2980 into CP

This will give you 10k penetration. But you'll need to find major fracture too make really good use of this penetration; which means nightblade lol. As NB you'll get 80% crit DMG+ a 15280 total pen debuff (which rivals mag using ele drain).

You can then use DMG enchants, flawless db + cripple grasp for unblock cc while having DB for the extra 5% DMG. I used senche for burst WD gain + barksin backbar for extra heal+ 50% reduction on snares+immobilze. Only problem is the ranged spamable, but combo of venom arrow for the silence cc + silver leaches might provide LA weave friendly sustain + burst from relentless focus.

I might run this build if I can get money to redo stats on my NB.

Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with all the abbreviations though

Combo = two different monster helm/shoulder pieces to use the bonuses.

NB = Nightblade.

DB = Dawnbreaker

DMG = damage

WD = weapon damage

LA = light attack. Technically LA should mean light armor, but some people can guess that I meant light attack because I said "weave"

Weave = adding light attacks in between casting of spells.

Mag = Magicka or Magicka builds.

CP = champion points.

And here's a link to the build I was trying to describe:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=24975

DDuke · September 2017

laced wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Depends on what you're looking for.

To maximize Lethal Arrow tooltip, I'd go with 5x Marksman & 5x Morag Tong & either use vMA/Master Bow or 1x Veli/Kena for extra weapon dmg.

I wouldn't recommend playing bow currently though, borderline unplayable with Miat's addon letting people know when you're casting Snipe on them and light/heavy builds largely capable of mitigating/absorbing anything bow can dish out, while medium just dodges your snipes (thanks to Miat's & visual/audio cues).

Hopefully next patch will be more interesting for bow users.

I hate that addon. I put SO much time into my archer main and then that nonsense happens..... ugh......

But I was also thinking of morag tong, does the poison bonus work really well?

Oh yes.

It actually puts a debuff on target that makes it take +10% poison damage. This means it buffs your already buffed up damage by 10% (not your base damage like other % modifiers).

Jade1986 · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

laced wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Depends on what you're looking for.

To maximize Lethal Arrow tooltip, I'd go with 5x Marksman & 5x Morag Tong & either use vMA/Master Bow or 1x Veli/Kena for extra weapon dmg.

I wouldn't recommend playing bow currently though, borderline unplayable with Miat's addon letting people know when you're casting Snipe on them and light/heavy builds largely capable of mitigating/absorbing anything bow can dish out, while medium just dodges your snipes (thanks to Miat's & visual/audio cues).

Hopefully next patch will be more interesting for bow users.

I hate that addon. I put SO much time into my archer main and then that nonsense happens..... ugh......

But I was also thinking of morag tong, does the poison bonus work really well?

Oh yes.

It actually puts a debuff on target that makes it take +10% poison damage. This means it buffs your already buffed up damage by 10% (not your base damage like other % modifiers).

O.O Def switching out nightmothers for that then!