One possible issue with Transmutation

Malacthulhu · September 2017

I am curious if the designers have given thought to the farming of crystals in random dungeons in regards to their system. The issue is 3 friends que and pickup a random guy then at last boss boot him and let friend 4 in to collect on last boss. Either way regardless of reason for being kicked I can see this being an ongoing complaint. My suggestion would be to give a chance to drop on each boss. If that is already the case then my apologies for wasting everyones time.

lynog85 · September 2017

Why on earth would the 4th guy not just do the dungeon? Its not like any of them are hard. Sounds a bit *** to me.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

lynog85 wrote: »

Why on earth would the 4th guy not just do the dungeon? Its not like any of them are hard. Sounds a bit *** to me.

/votekick

idk · September 2017

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

idk wrote: »

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Agreed however, lets say the group composition is not full cp and newer players etc. Like I said it is a possible issue.

SquareSausage · September 2017

Well the 4th person won't have queued for a random then and wont get the crystal???

Malacthulhu · September 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

Well the 4th person won't have queued for a random then and wont get the crystal???

I understood it as a drop on final boss is this wrong?

Horowonnoe · September 2017

Malacthulhu wrote: »

I am curious if the designers have given thought to the farming of crystals in random dungeons in regards to their system. The issue is 3 friends que and pickup a random guy then at last boss boot him and let friend 4 in to collect on last boss. Either way regardless of reason for being kicked I can see this being an ongoing complaint. My suggestion would be to give a chance to drop on each boss. If that is already the case then my apologies for wasting everyones time.

I don't see why anyone would ever do this. Most people would just get 4 good dps premade groups and storm through. Why waste time with a random who may or may not be good.
#logic

Malacthulhu · September 2017

Horowonnoe wrote: »

Malacthulhu wrote: »

I am curious if the designers have given thought to the farming of crystals in random dungeons in regards to their system. The issue is 3 friends que and pickup a random guy then at last boss boot him and let friend 4 in to collect on last boss. Either way regardless of reason for being kicked I can see this being an ongoing complaint. My suggestion would be to give a chance to drop on each boss. If that is already the case then my apologies for wasting everyones time.

I don't see why anyone would ever do this. Most people would just get 4 good dps premade groups and storm through. Why waste time with a random who may or may not be good.
#logic

Its not about what you think most people do, it will happen lol.

#Muphys Law

Taleof2Cities · September 2017

There are other more valuable rewards than crystals on Live already ... such as monster helms, motif pages, and set jewelry.

This is a non-issue.

Danksta · September 2017

It's not even a guaranteed drop. I wouldn't come in on a last boss for a chance for a crystal.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There are other more valuable rewards than crystals on Live already ... such as monster helms, motif pages, and set jewelry.

This is a non-issue.

Which can be traded and have a decent drop rate. Some would argue that those things currently are simply not as valuable to them. Anyways, time will tell I guess.

SquareSausage · September 2017

This is from @ZOS_GinaBruno

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

Veteran Undaunted Pledge
Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
Trial Weekly Quests
Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
Veteran Maelstrom Arena
Veteran Dragonstar Arena

So if the group is doing a rando dungeo, the 4th guy would not get the crystal as he didnt select the rando!

Malacthulhu · September 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

This is from @ZOS_GinaBruno

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

Veteran Undaunted Pledge
Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
Trial Weekly Quests
Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
Veteran Maelstrom Arena
Veteran Dragonstar Arena

So if the group is doing a rando dungeo, the 4th guy would not get the crystal as he didnt select the rando!

Ah thank you.

PlagueSD · September 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

So if the group is doing a rando dungeo, the 4th guy would not get the crystal as he didnt select the rando!

I think you lost your 'm' and 'n' keys...

SquareSausage · September 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

So if the group is doing a rando dungeo, the 4th guy would not get the crystal as he didnt select the rando!

I think you lost your 'm' and 'n' keys...

I was feeling artsy.

Danksta · September 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

This is from @ZOS_GinaBruno

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:

Veteran Undaunted Pledge
Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day
Trial Weekly Quests
Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)
End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)
Veteran Maelstrom Arena
Veteran Dragonstar Arena

So if the group is doing a rando dungeo, the 4th guy would not get the crystal as he didnt select the rando!

They used the word occasionally in the patch notes... I'm skeptical.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

Sounds like a waste of time.
Its better to farm dungeon with a friend or guildie than invite a random that will probably be a light attack spammer or a pseudo-tank without a taunt.

idk · September 2017

Malacthulhu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Agreed however, lets say the group composition is not full cp and newer players etc. Like I said it is a possible issue.

If they kick the player and invite their friend in the friend will not be getting the crystals from the vet random unless he/she gets lucky to be put into the group.

I realize some have less patience and struggle more themselves. Myself, unless I have a time restraint I tend to spend time with those learning the game and dungeon. Not everyone has that outlook or interest even if someone else shows them the same courtesy. We see it often in the forums.

So, yes, some will kick another player even in the easier dungeons but it will not really help their 4th friend.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

idk wrote: »

Malacthulhu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Agreed however, lets say the group composition is not full cp and newer players etc. Like I said it is a possible issue.

If they kick the player and invite their friend in the friend will not be getting the crystals from the vet random unless he/she gets lucky to be put into the group.

I realize some have less patience and struggle more themselves. Myself, unless I have a time restraint I tend to spend time with those learning the game and dungeon. Not everyone has that outlook or interest even if someone else shows them the same courtesy. We see it often in the forums.

So, yes, some will kick another player even in the easier dungeons but it will not really help their 4th friend.

The issue is cleared further up. It will only add to the trial issue with pugs which is already an issue or use to be with ocassional posts.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

I think that is a stretch in terms of potential problems. I actually hope that this has a positive effect and gets more skilled players into the group finder.

Integral1900 · September 2017

Why can't we trade the blasted things?

Malacthulhu · September 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Why can't we trade the blasted things?

no

Magdalina · September 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Why can't we trade the blasted things?

Because they're trying to incentive people running dungeons?

This might actually be fun. To OP's worry - inviting player #4 on last boss will put him in the same instance but it will not be a random dungeon for him unless he actually queues for a random through groupfinder and lucks out on that very group(which given he'd be queuing for ANY dungeon seems pretty slim), therefore he would not get the gem in the scenario you described

Edit: at least this is how I assume it'll work, they explicitly stated it to be a random dungeon and being invited into someone else's random currently doesn't make it a random for you - you won't get the random dungeon reward mail nor xp. To do it together you gotta queue for it together.

iiYuki · September 2017

lynog85 wrote: »

Why on earth would the 4th guy not just do the dungeon? Its not like any of them are hard. Sounds a bit *** to me.

This, seems like unnecessary work, might as well fetch them through. You get random matched with one or more sub lv50 players 90% of the time anyway, if you're hoping to leech a high level player you're going to be playing roulette.

idk · September 2017

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

Malacthulhu wrote: »

I am curious if the designers have given thought to the farming of crystals in random dungeons in regards to their system. The issue is 3 friends que and pickup a random guy then at last boss boot him and let friend 4 in to collect on last boss. Either way regardless of reason for being kicked I can see this being an ongoing complaint. My suggestion would be to give a chance to drop on each boss. If that is already the case then my apologies for wasting everyones time.

I don't see why anyone would ever do this. Most people would just get 4 good dps premade groups and storm through. Why waste time with a random who may or may not be good.
#logic

Its not about what you think most people do, it will happen lol.

#Muphys Law

LOL, I was tanking a rando vet. Right when I loaded in had the option to vote to kick a player. He was CP 110. When the vote to kick failed the healer quit. Myself, a DPS that was 100 CP below cap and the CP 110 cleared the vet trial without an issue. The lowbie died once on the final boss fight. That was it. We 3 manned it. BTW, my tank was built as a tank, not one that could dish out dps.

Basically the point is that those that are kicking lower level players are ones that need stronger players to help carry them. The new system will not change that. The forums often have threads created by those players. Those I run with, if we queue for a 4th we could care less about their CP.

Edit: what is even funnier is my guess some of the many players who have moved from console to PC were kicked from groups on PC when they were low level CP even though they were superior players to those that kick them. PC has received some of the top console players in the past year.

Drummerx04 · September 2017

I mean I guess it's possible that people will be that petty, but honestly, most farm groups would just run the dungeon again with their 4th friend for another drop chance.

zaria · September 2017

idk wrote: »

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Its one guarantee for crystal on first daily vet random on character, its an chance on crystal on last boss.
So if you you invite the friend will not get the guarantee one, just the chance as he is not random.

This will be an buff if you do an random vet dungeon and enter on last boss, you will now get the guarantee crystal if group kill boss, you also have the chance one.

Not much of an issue I think.
More serious in that players who should stayed in normal dungeons will now start running random veteran and pledges.
This also includes the ones who should L2P before doing normal dungeons.
This will be an nerf if you pug.
Buying up soulgems and repari kits sounds smart

Mureel · September 2017

In my raid and merchant guilds there's already talk of which v dungeons are fastest, etc. Due to the nature of the talk across all my guilds, I think the OPs concern would mainly factor among people who are already petty and/or have a hard time pugging/completing themselves.

I've seen zero talk of this until this post.

Mureel · September 2017

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it's only one crystal on the last boss.

Also, most that will kick because of absurd reasons will kick early. However, it's still a good point. What is see more is those average players that kick others because they don't think someone has enough CP will QQ even more since I think it's only the random vet that grants the crystals.

Its one guarantee for crystal on first daily vet random on character, its an chance on crystal on last boss.
So if you you invite the friend will not get the guarantee one, just the chance as he is not random.

This will be an buff if you do an random vet dungeon and enter on last boss, you will now get the guarantee crystal if group kill boss, you also have the chance one.

Not much of an issue I think.
More serious in that players who should stayed in normal dungeons will now start running random veteran and pledges.
This also includes the ones who should L2P before doing normal dungeons.
This will be an nerf if you pug.
Buying up soulgems and repari kits sounds smart

Has now several thousand of each (a maxed char + mount bank full) because later they will be expensive!

NewBlacksmurf · September 2017

This is a people problem not a design issue.
Hopefully these people are on other people’s block lists. Eventually ending up ona report ticket on the way to ban

Hopefully