Trade Kiosk Prices Skyrocketing?
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Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »this system works for a certain kind of seller. but its awful for most buyers even with TTC (becasue you STILL have to hoof it all over the place, checking traders one by one -if you are lucky/don't mind paying higher price, it will be at the first trader you check, but more often then not - by the time you get there, the item is gone), its awful for anyone who is a sporadic seller or a sporadic player, the only thing this system is good for is gold sync.
and before someone says anything about me not understanding the system, I understand it fine. currently without selling tempers for that extra burst of gold I may want for luxury furnishings, I make 300k plus per week with my two non prime but decent nonetheless location guilds. not a power seller, but good enough to qualify for even a prime location guild without having to change anything about how I play.
I still. hate. this system. it sucks as a buyer (and I don't even want to contemplate how much more it sucks on console where awesome guild store doesn't exist). its a pain if you are not a regular seller. it NEEDS a rework.
@Linaleah
It's not clear in your comment "why it sucks" ......it's clear why you don't like parts of it but the feature as a whole, it's a very realistic experience.
Here's what I'm reading.....just picked your comment as an example to quote.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to have to go other places or search multiple times for items I want to buy. Instead I want to see any and everything in one place with one interaction.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to be limited to who my listed items for sale are seen by, instead I want everyone to see everything in one interaction.
For arguments sake, would you agree that you dislike the real worlds model of buying and selling goods today?
given that I do bulk of my shopping on amazon, occasionally supplemented by a few other online retailers, are you sure you want me to answer that question? you may not get the answer you are expecting.
the system as it is right now is a time sink. pointless time sink. plenty of MMO's on the market do NOT have this pointless time sink and do just fine in terms of their economies. I don't play a fantasy video game for a "realistic" experience anyways.
why the system sucks? my comment does mention it. it excludes anyone that is not a daily player/seller. it excludes people with limited playtime that don't have an hour to spend running around just to buy couple of items (the point of buying rather then farming btw, is to save that time you would have spent farming) UI is absolutely awful. and its far more exploitable than centralized trading whether its an auction with bids, or just straight up trading - is.
Yes, I'm asking cause its good conversation.
Lets use your comment about Amazon. and lets add in the possibilities that you can buy everything you want and need from Amazon exclusively. That doesn't eliminate other goods and services being purchased and sold by ....another website, multi level marketing concepts, another legitimate brick and motor building, as well as some lady or guy selling items at a tent or out the back of their cars/trucks legitimately.
I'll agree that using Amazon for you and some as well as having that experience in a game seems "best" but as we know, the rest of the world for reasons known and unknown use other legitimate ways to buy and sale goods and services.
The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.
Thoughts?
thoughts? simple.
1. small business are online as well. amazon is not the only marketplace there is (did you know that what amazon sells is not all amazon, there are tons of sellers that sell THROUGH amazon, but are not actualy part OF amazon). then there's e-bay, etsy, Walmart is nowadays a marketplace not unlike amazon and heck even individual websites that are still easily accessible and usable with a click of a button and ability to compare prices without leaving amazon etc websites, so that you
2. I have zero problem with existence of brick and mortar, I do occasionally shop in brick and mortar stores when opportune (I did say bulk, not all). but what YOU and people who agree with you push for is that scattered brick and mortar is the ONLY way to shop. no amazon or places LIKE amazon.
a compromise was suggested many a time. allow people to list without being in a guild - make the listing fee higher vs listing with a guild to keep being in the guild desirable for sellers who are more consistent rather just want to sell here and there sporadically. keep individual kiosks, but also make all of them searchable and purchasable from - at a central location. add a surcharge (shipping costs if you will) for shopping at a central location vs directly at a kiosk. if you must keep the system - FIX it so that its more accessible to MORE people and less of an exploitable mess. as an added bonus, it should normalize kiosk costs.
1. I'm aware that Amazon is a network of vendors and sellers which is why this example makes sense to utilize. Its comparable to the discussion where Amazon is the Guild Store and the vendors or sellers are each player. As I also wrote about other outlets in various forms.... Follow my suggestion which offers more vendors access to the Guild store from 5 per player up to 25, that's a increase of 20 stores at most per player. Its the equivalent of not having to ever leave a desired town with a guild store in addition to access to the guild traders in said town....in some examples that's over 35 or more with no need to travel.
They are easily accessible to YOU, don't apply yourself as the reality of EVERYONE ELSE. (I'm no yelling but caps are to draw attention to words I seek to highlight).
Its not correct to look at another idea only from YOUR point of view and conclude that EVERYONE would be one in the same in terms of desires, access and frequency of use or benefit.
2. Not sure where you drew the idea that other outlets are the only way to shop. its more accurate to interpret that other outlets are for SOME, the ONLY way to shop as I wrote a few times, nothing applies equally to EVERYONE. (Again not yelling just drawing attention to specific words).
Regarding the use of the word "Compromise"
-This is a request of you and others from ONLY YOUR point of view excluding EVERYONE ELSE therefore SOME may use YOUR idea while others may not as in todays design, the reality is Guild Stores are not the ONLY way to buy and sale.
-Your suggestions aren't addressing all sides.
Specifically many are happy as is
many want changes
many don't care
many don't use any of this
Just sharing perspectives
all right, lets see if I can adress it point by point.
1. no, network of sellers on amazon is NOT players within the guild, its trading guilds within the server. your suggestion doesn't fix the problem of people who are not selling regularly enough to be IN a trading guild. it also doesn't address that you STILL most likely will have to travel all over the place, just to find that one item you are looking for.
they are easily accessible to EVERYONE (not shouting, emphasizing the word) with internet connection. shipping directly to home is a variable, but given that I don't live inside a major city, so most of the time - have to pick up my packages from a post office - I get that. its STILL more convenient and faster then driving around from store to store to look for an item that may not even be there. unlike real life, I cannot just call a store ahead and ask them if its still available - in ESO, I have to physically get to the trader and check. heck there was this one time when i found an item on TTC and went to the location it was supposed to be listed... only to find that that guild lost their trader for a week, putting me back to square one. and that is WITH addons alleviating some of the issues on PC.
2. by rejecting centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores.
people who are no looking for a change - are not looking for a compromise to begin with. it also doesn't fix the system for the majority. my compromise (which wasn't even originally suggested by me - I just think its an awesome idea) addresses people who are willing to give a little, while still keeping the core of what they enjoy about the system - trader kiosks, trading guilds and looking for deals in far away locations.
people who don't care are irrelevant as they are not affected.
people who are not using any of this - you have to ask yourself a question. why? why aren't they using it? is it becasue they don't care? or because the system is convoluted and inaccessible for them?
I am also merely sharing perspective. the difference is - you don't think the change is needed. I do.
@Linaleah
Fair lets touch on this point by point that a good way to break down the discussion.
1. Amazon IS a company who provides services to others who seek a way to sale, or buy goods and services.
-Guild Store in a trading guild is a group of players who've come together in order to list items for others to buy and where players also may join for better access to buy. In some of these, resources are pooled to obtain a Guild Trader.
-Guild Store in a non-trade guild offers the same exact features and options subject to the members desires which may or may not resemble a trading guilds actions and intent.
-Guild Trader is an extension of the Guild store whereas the Guild Store is an additional opportunity made available to more players at a specific location per week.
Amazon is just as accessible in the game of ESO as a Guild trader in context to the games technology compared the worlds technology in 2017. So in the correct context of what we are discussing, I would argue Amazon is literally the accurate reference based on your analogy. Convenience and reasonable, as well as accessible and possible all matter in our discussion in context to this game.
ESO:
-We don't have the internet, or satellites, nor do we have fiber optic, DSL, Cable, Cell phones, or hard line phones.
-The game allows us humans technology means but our actual characters behave and interact in a dated environment where outside of magic.....instant access isn't possible at all. So the context of the Amazon example while its easy to understand, doesn't make a strong argument as to what ESO the game should offer if we are putting into context of ESO....the world not XYZ game on PC, Xbox and PlayStation.
2. You write, "Rejecting a centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores."
- This idea that everything should be instant and accessible anywhere....lacks a meaningful reality in the game.
- How is this magical search happening in context of ESO?
In the world we have the internet, satellite, cell and hard line phones, fiber optic, DSL, Cable, etc. that exists to allow such to occur. And with all of that, we still cant search all outlets from one place.
At this point I'm respectfully going to argue.....very simply put.....This suggestion has to make sense in context to what is going on and as its often expressed, it doesn't align. The system isn't broken, its just not what some others want.
At least come with lore based means with some deadric and cosmic powers that exist to suggest how someone is ......and BAM they all of a sudden should be able to see, grab, send, receive things magically in the game.
Looking at how transmutation is being added....its coming with context.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on if there's a better way, at least give credit to the game not being one where things added aren't literally pulled out of the blue like what other games do.
amazon provides "kiosks" if you will for companies large and small. that is why amazon is not a guild but rather a server itself. but unlike guild traders - the space amazon provides is virtually limitless, becasue unlike guild kiosks, amazon doesn't limit either number of stores its willing to host, or how many people are allowed to be a part of the company represented.
moreover whenever I search for an item on amazon? ALL the results show up regardless of who listed them.
ESO. we have magic, instant travel, instant communication via magic, moreover - we can acess our banked items and gold from every. single. banker in a game. no matter where they are located. with upcoming update? we will also be able to deliver our crafting writs to any. turn in. spot. in a game. regardless of who supposedly ordered those items via in game text. what we also have is near instant delivery of mail. ANY mail. doesn't matter where you were when you bought something - you could be in Auridon shopping your own guild's listings, and your guild kiosk is in Wrothgar - your get your purchase delivered right away. same goes for listing. I can list items at any banker and they immediately show up at the trader nowhere near where i listed them. like magic. heck our modern technology cannot do that, not with physical items like ESO can.
arguing against being able to search and buy more then your guild from central location give all of the above is a bit.. odd, no? in context of the game it makes PERFECT sense to be able to shop at a central location. because its already here. in game. with zero lore explanation. the restriction is arbitrary.
- We see Amazon the same in general 2017 world or real life. It seems we don’t agree on Amazons context if it were looked at in the world of ESO.
-In ESO the game world, a limitless and infinite listing and search that’s all encompassing....I understand why you want it but why and how does this become possible in the eso world.
Not on a ZOS server but more specific to ask....what in the eso world has occurred that our characters to get this new power that wasn’t possible?
We do have the ability to teleport, attack, heal and shield with magic as well as craft and soon change some properties of items but all of that is explained in lore.
Bank access is also logically explained and meaningful as it occurs with NPCs, and assistants with actual structures incorporated.
Communication isn’t actually instant ....not trying to be weird but text chat or voice chat isn’t how our characters communicate it’s how the users communicate so thats not of the ESo world.
Mail is sent and while we don’t have mailboxes to check the mail in terms of items for arguments sake does occur in the game world of eso in an unexplained manner. So I’m with you here.
Problem is guild stores and kiosks work within the game exclusively absent of user based tools like mail.
I don’t want to put sway on this so I’m gonna go off on a magical tangent. Would the mail system change to this user based feature absent of eso game world logic to some 2017 Amazon-ish thing to offer what you’re asking for?
It’s odd to me that people want this game to be like another game they left. Specifically saying a feature not the whole game because the way features like this work, they effect everyone regardless ofif you do or don’t want it or use it. It’s a server world
I don’t think it’s odd for people not to want a all encompassing searchable without logic, reason or basis on the game you’re playing when it’s a role playing game. Regardless of if we are or aren’t into the role play aspect as we still are playing a character.
This stuff matters to me.
I feel like you are selectively ignoring in game things because.. reasons? if the bunk is explained WHY does it work one way for guilds you are in, but the other for guilds you are not in? where exactly is it explained in game that being a member of the guild changes how physical item mailing works?
instantaneous magical communication does exist in game. from scrying bowls to magic mirrors, communication in this game can work the same way as in real life. sometimes its snail mail. and sometimes its as instant as a mirror call.
moreover - you are changing the subject and trying to turn it into "I just want it to be like that other game I played" show me a single game that works the way the compromise that I offered does? if one exists, its not the game I have personaly played. what I want for this game is to have less pointless time sinks. this. specific. game. it doesn't have to be the same way as other games work, but it should stop being so backwards and exclusionary.
if people didn't want all encompassing searchable? TTC would not exist and would NOT be as popular as it is right now. for all that "we like the game as it is" a suspicious number of those same people take advantage of TTC. and master merchant.
Let me discuss a bit more if I may...
There’s a difference between the world of eso and the users experience of playing ZOS’ game.
I’m not selectively ignoring what the user experiences however I am particular to always seperate the user from the game world. There’s a story I had of role play long ago......in short I learned that when playing online in a shared space my human isn’t my character and it’s very important that the two are always understood as separate.
Maybe “bunk” is a typo and it should read bank?
The bank exists in the game world as an actual bank. Traveling to other towns and having access to your items is explained or possible due to the traveling NPCs, merchants, horse and carts and the occasional NPC dialogue or NPCs found in need or dead.
Guild banks and guild stores....why they work for ones you’re in and ones you’re not in. It’s explained in the NPC dialogue and backed up as the GM establishes the “account” with the NPC. It’s obviously seperate as it’s members only, it doesn’t need a further explanation as it’s guild permission based not automatic.
Mail in the world of TES exists by means of NPCs traveling to you with messages so while that’s not a literal NPC interaction in this game it does happen on some quests so it’s there.
Instant communication between unknown soulless and unknown heroes with souls....No sorry. I have to stop and clarify....regardless of your UI settings and platform no one knows anyone, their story, their intent or even if another exists. So let’s consiser if you’re playing with no zone text chat, no console chat, no nameplates, and use only /s absent of a player name.
That’s the game world....in context
Regarding me changing the conversation....
I’m not accusing you of trying to make this whole game exactly like another I’m simply pointing out as I wrote before, you are seeking for this game to add features you’ve experienced in other games. Take your pick...the feature you want as described exists in some other games. Maybe not exactly as you describe but it’s the same.
Also, it’s not a compromise that you’re describing it’s your hope to add a feature. It’s not a situation where anything needs or has to change so there’s no compromise. Also whose to say anyone who is in the position to allow or deny any request is even considering anything? Just pointing out it’s not a compromise, it’s just a desire you have or a feature request.
There’s nothing wrong with your desire to want to reduce time syncs but the results of such desires has a direct impact on everyone playing the game. I like how the game works in terms of what we are discussing. I’m open to some changes but the basis to me works just fine. I agree your ideas of change don’t have to be the same as other games but the features you’re asking for as very similar to some other games so that’s how the request is interpreted. See it’s not the specifics of the feature you’re asking for but the experience that’s similar.
Believe it or not some of us enjoy what you refer to as exclusionary or limiting. What I can tell you is there are far fewer people who are using add-ons and such or external websites than how your comment reads.
Simply knowing there are three platforms where two don’t allow add-ons is part of it. The other part is that people use different means of doing things. I’m not saying there aren’t many who do, and I’m not even saying that the many who do don’t put number those who don’t but I do know it’s far fewer than how your comment reads.
Thing is....this has been discussed from pre PC closed beta up until now and so will something be added, I’d argue yes but is that better .... many will argue yes, many will argue no and many will not say a thing.
I’m just sharing my point of view on it
yes its bank, my typing can be.. iffy at times. and I'm guessing you meant sink not sync as well.
honestly, I cannot possibly agree with you, to me your explanations feel pulled by the ears to excuse the faulty system. and if we are going to talk about features existing in other games... scaling exists in other games, existed in them before ESO. research in some form and crafting of gear exists in other games. action combat with limited abilities displayed and limited skillpoints, but a ton of abilities you can level up, you just need to chose which ones you use is almost giving me neverwinter dejavu... and that's just the game I played. dodging and rolling is something I have first experienced in GW2. as is weapon switching. dye system is incredibly similar to that of GW2 with the only difference being dye acquisition. I can keep going btw.
are we really going to reject features just becasue other games have something similar? there will always be similarities between MMO's, especially MMO rpg's. designing the game on a basis of "it must be different" is just... odd.
and honestly? if given an opportunity, do you honestly think that people would NOT use addons on consoles? the biggest recent thing for consoles was the addition of addons for consoles for Bethesda games. and btw? TTC does extend to consoles. master merchant doesn't and given how often we've been seeying posts from people about ever growing weekly fees on consoles? they would LOVE master merchant like functionality, just so that they can track the actual sales instead of setting membership fees.
lastly. we may have a different definition of a compromise, but as far as i'm aware, compromise is finding a solution that is agreeable to the largest number of people. wanting things to stay as IS is NOT a compromise, its clinging to status quo. compromise by nature requires some change. and yes.. what I'm offering is a compromise. becasue my personal preference? would be to do away with guild traders all together. its one of the very few features of ESO I actively dislike. features I like vastly outnumber the ones that I don't, but it doesn't negate the fact that not everything in game is to my liking. my compromise, YES compromise is to adjust a system - add options to it, if you will that keep all the things that people who like exploiting it - want to keep, while at the same time giving option to people who are currently excluded from anything but occasional selling in chat - better selling experience. not to mention - better buying experience for most.
P.S. there were a lot of things in this game that didn't exist in Beta and at launch, that were changed and added later. and for the better. there will be things changing with upcoming DLC. and a LOT of this changes are a direct response to player requests. just saying.Edited by Linaleah on September 20, 2017 5:13AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭The guild i was in PS4 The black hand council went under after two years because the prices for trader towns started to get too high. Also because of the "name" and selling opportunities the guild started little by little getting filled with literally the best players in the game of NA who obviously only pve'd for leaderboards and dueling pvpr's. Not the best players you want in your guild wen it comes to selling or trading. At most the guild was making only 3m from sells weekly. LOL. I honestly felt bad for the guild leader but after two years id say that was a pretty good run.Edited by Kalante on September 20, 2017 7:09AM0 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭
The current guild trader kiosk system is the only thing that keeps monopolies in check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.8 -
Aeorath✭✭✭CrazyCleatus wrote: »Don't know what everyone has against auction houses. I made a lot of money in WoW starting with absolutely nothing on two different servers, each with different economies. I would start by buying and reselling stacks of cotton, and eventually worked my way up to buying and reselling high priced items.
It was actually a really fun process. The trading system in this game is pretty bogus compared to it, especially being on console, which makes searches insanely clunky. I also hate having to travel everywhere to find good deals. I'd waaaaaay rather it all be in one convenient place.
This current system is also awful for new guilds who can't afford the ridiculous bidding prices. Everyone should have equal opportunity to sell their goods.
And for everyone yelling "monopoly, monopoly, monopoly," in my years of playing WoW, they never stopped me from making it rich.
Totally agree. That's all.2 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiosk prices are rising because large trading guilds bid on other locations with a Dummy Guild just in case they lose their regular location.
Personally I just want an inclusive trading system, rather than the band aid which is guild traders.10 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »this system works for a certain kind of seller. but its awful for most buyers even with TTC (becasue you STILL have to hoof it all over the place, checking traders one by one -if you are lucky/don't mind paying higher price, it will be at the first trader you check, but more often then not - by the time you get there, the item is gone), its awful for anyone who is a sporadic seller or a sporadic player, the only thing this system is good for is gold sync.
and before someone says anything about me not understanding the system, I understand it fine. currently without selling tempers for that extra burst of gold I may want for luxury furnishings, I make 300k plus per week with my two non prime but decent nonetheless location guilds. not a power seller, but good enough to qualify for even a prime location guild without having to change anything about how I play.
I still. hate. this system. it sucks as a buyer (and I don't even want to contemplate how much more it sucks on console where awesome guild store doesn't exist). its a pain if you are not a regular seller. it NEEDS a rework.
@Linaleah
It's not clear in your comment "why it sucks" ......it's clear why you don't like parts of it but the feature as a whole, it's a very realistic experience.
Here's what I'm reading.....just picked your comment as an example to quote.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to have to go other places or search multiple times for items I want to buy. Instead I want to see any and everything in one place with one interaction.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to be limited to who my listed items for sale are seen by, instead I want everyone to see everything in one interaction.
For arguments sake, would you agree that you dislike the real worlds model of buying and selling goods today?
given that I do bulk of my shopping on amazon, occasionally supplemented by a few other online retailers, are you sure you want me to answer that question? you may not get the answer you are expecting.
the system as it is right now is a time sink. pointless time sink. plenty of MMO's on the market do NOT have this pointless time sink and do just fine in terms of their economies. I don't play a fantasy video game for a "realistic" experience anyways.
why the system sucks? my comment does mention it. it excludes anyone that is not a daily player/seller. it excludes people with limited playtime that don't have an hour to spend running around just to buy couple of items (the point of buying rather then farming btw, is to save that time you would have spent farming) UI is absolutely awful. and its far more exploitable than centralized trading whether its an auction with bids, or just straight up trading - is.
Yes, I'm asking cause its good conversation.
Lets use your comment about Amazon. and lets add in the possibilities that you can buy everything you want and need from Amazon exclusively. That doesn't eliminate other goods and services being purchased and sold by ....another website, multi level marketing concepts, another legitimate brick and motor building, as well as some lady or guy selling items at a tent or out the back of their cars/trucks legitimately.
I'll agree that using Amazon for you and some as well as having that experience in a game seems "best" but as we know, the rest of the world for reasons known and unknown use other legitimate ways to buy and sale goods and services.
The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.
Thoughts?
thoughts? simple.
1. small business are online as well. amazon is not the only marketplace there is (did you know that what amazon sells is not all amazon, there are tons of sellers that sell THROUGH amazon, but are not actualy part OF amazon). then there's e-bay, etsy, Walmart is nowadays a marketplace not unlike amazon and heck even individual websites that are still easily accessible and usable with a click of a button and ability to compare prices without leaving amazon etc websites, so that you
2. I have zero problem with existence of brick and mortar, I do occasionally shop in brick and mortar stores when opportune (I did say bulk, not all). but what YOU and people who agree with you push for is that scattered brick and mortar is the ONLY way to shop. no amazon or places LIKE amazon.
a compromise was suggested many a time. allow people to list without being in a guild - make the listing fee higher vs listing with a guild to keep being in the guild desirable for sellers who are more consistent rather just want to sell here and there sporadically. keep individual kiosks, but also make all of them searchable and purchasable from - at a central location. add a surcharge (shipping costs if you will) for shopping at a central location vs directly at a kiosk. if you must keep the system - FIX it so that its more accessible to MORE people and less of an exploitable mess. as an added bonus, it should normalize kiosk costs.
1. I'm aware that Amazon is a network of vendors and sellers which is why this example makes sense to utilize. Its comparable to the discussion where Amazon is the Guild Store and the vendors or sellers are each player. As I also wrote about other outlets in various forms.... Follow my suggestion which offers more vendors access to the Guild store from 5 per player up to 25, that's a increase of 20 stores at most per player. Its the equivalent of not having to ever leave a desired town with a guild store in addition to access to the guild traders in said town....in some examples that's over 35 or more with no need to travel.
They are easily accessible to YOU, don't apply yourself as the reality of EVERYONE ELSE. (I'm no yelling but caps are to draw attention to words I seek to highlight).
Its not correct to look at another idea only from YOUR point of view and conclude that EVERYONE would be one in the same in terms of desires, access and frequency of use or benefit.
2. Not sure where you drew the idea that other outlets are the only way to shop. its more accurate to interpret that other outlets are for SOME, the ONLY way to shop as I wrote a few times, nothing applies equally to EVERYONE. (Again not yelling just drawing attention to specific words).
Regarding the use of the word "Compromise"
-This is a request of you and others from ONLY YOUR point of view excluding EVERYONE ELSE therefore SOME may use YOUR idea while others may not as in todays design, the reality is Guild Stores are not the ONLY way to buy and sale.
-Your suggestions aren't addressing all sides.
Specifically many are happy as is
many want changes
many don't care
many don't use any of this
Just sharing perspectives
all right, lets see if I can adress it point by point.
1. no, network of sellers on amazon is NOT players within the guild, its trading guilds within the server. your suggestion doesn't fix the problem of people who are not selling regularly enough to be IN a trading guild. it also doesn't address that you STILL most likely will have to travel all over the place, just to find that one item you are looking for.
they are easily accessible to EVERYONE (not shouting, emphasizing the word) with internet connection. shipping directly to home is a variable, but given that I don't live inside a major city, so most of the time - have to pick up my packages from a post office - I get that. its STILL more convenient and faster then driving around from store to store to look for an item that may not even be there. unlike real life, I cannot just call a store ahead and ask them if its still available - in ESO, I have to physically get to the trader and check. heck there was this one time when i found an item on TTC and went to the location it was supposed to be listed... only to find that that guild lost their trader for a week, putting me back to square one. and that is WITH addons alleviating some of the issues on PC.
2. by rejecting centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores.
people who are no looking for a change - are not looking for a compromise to begin with. it also doesn't fix the system for the majority. my compromise (which wasn't even originally suggested by me - I just think its an awesome idea) addresses people who are willing to give a little, while still keeping the core of what they enjoy about the system - trader kiosks, trading guilds and looking for deals in far away locations.
people who don't care are irrelevant as they are not affected.
people who are not using any of this - you have to ask yourself a question. why? why aren't they using it? is it becasue they don't care? or because the system is convoluted and inaccessible for them?
I am also merely sharing perspective. the difference is - you don't think the change is needed. I do.
@Linaleah
Fair lets touch on this point by point that a good way to break down the discussion.
1. Amazon IS a company who provides services to others who seek a way to sale, or buy goods and services.
-Guild Store in a trading guild is a group of players who've come together in order to list items for others to buy and where players also may join for better access to buy. In some of these, resources are pooled to obtain a Guild Trader.
-Guild Store in a non-trade guild offers the same exact features and options subject to the members desires which may or may not resemble a trading guilds actions and intent.
-Guild Trader is an extension of the Guild store whereas the Guild Store is an additional opportunity made available to more players at a specific location per week.
Amazon is just as accessible in the game of ESO as a Guild trader in context to the games technology compared the worlds technology in 2017. So in the correct context of what we are discussing, I would argue Amazon is literally the accurate reference based on your analogy. Convenience and reasonable, as well as accessible and possible all matter in our discussion in context to this game.
ESO:
-We don't have the internet, or satellites, nor do we have fiber optic, DSL, Cable, Cell phones, or hard line phones.
-The game allows us humans technology means but our actual characters behave and interact in a dated environment where outside of magic.....instant access isn't possible at all. So the context of the Amazon example while its easy to understand, doesn't make a strong argument as to what ESO the game should offer if we are putting into context of ESO....the world not XYZ game on PC, Xbox and PlayStation.
2. You write, "Rejecting a centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores."
- This idea that everything should be instant and accessible anywhere....lacks a meaningful reality in the game.
- How is this magical search happening in context of ESO?
In the world we have the internet, satellite, cell and hard line phones, fiber optic, DSL, Cable, etc. that exists to allow such to occur. And with all of that, we still cant search all outlets from one place.
At this point I'm respectfully going to argue.....very simply put.....This suggestion has to make sense in context to what is going on and as its often expressed, it doesn't align. The system isn't broken, its just not what some others want.
At least come with lore based means with some deadric and cosmic powers that exist to suggest how someone is ......and BAM they all of a sudden should be able to see, grab, send, receive things magically in the game.
Looking at how transmutation is being added....its coming with context.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on if there's a better way, at least give credit to the game not being one where things added aren't literally pulled out of the blue like what other games do.
amazon provides "kiosks" if you will for companies large and small. that is why amazon is not a guild but rather a server itself. but unlike guild traders - the space amazon provides is virtually limitless, becasue unlike guild kiosks, amazon doesn't limit either number of stores its willing to host, or how many people are allowed to be a part of the company represented.
moreover whenever I search for an item on amazon? ALL the results show up regardless of who listed them.
ESO. we have magic, instant travel, instant communication via magic, moreover - we can acess our banked items and gold from every. single. banker in a game. no matter where they are located. with upcoming update? we will also be able to deliver our crafting writs to any. turn in. spot. in a game. regardless of who supposedly ordered those items via in game text. what we also have is near instant delivery of mail. ANY mail. doesn't matter where you were when you bought something - you could be in Auridon shopping your own guild's listings, and your guild kiosk is in Wrothgar - your get your purchase delivered right away. same goes for listing. I can list items at any banker and they immediately show up at the trader nowhere near where i listed them. like magic. heck our modern technology cannot do that, not with physical items like ESO can.
arguing against being able to search and buy more then your guild from central location give all of the above is a bit.. odd, no? in context of the game it makes PERFECT sense to be able to shop at a central location. because its already here. in game. with zero lore explanation. the restriction is arbitrary.
- We see Amazon the same in general 2017 world or real life. It seems we don’t agree on Amazons context if it were looked at in the world of ESO.
-In ESO the game world, a limitless and infinite listing and search that’s all encompassing....I understand why you want it but why and how does this become possible in the eso world.
Not on a ZOS server but more specific to ask....what in the eso world has occurred that our characters to get this new power that wasn’t possible?
We do have the ability to teleport, attack, heal and shield with magic as well as craft and soon change some properties of items but all of that is explained in lore.
Bank access is also logically explained and meaningful as it occurs with NPCs, and assistants with actual structures incorporated.
Communication isn’t actually instant ....not trying to be weird but text chat or voice chat isn’t how our characters communicate it’s how the users communicate so thats not of the ESo world.
Mail is sent and while we don’t have mailboxes to check the mail in terms of items for arguments sake does occur in the game world of eso in an unexplained manner. So I’m with you here.
Problem is guild stores and kiosks work within the game exclusively absent of user based tools like mail.
I don’t want to put sway on this so I’m gonna go off on a magical tangent. Would the mail system change to this user based feature absent of eso game world logic to some 2017 Amazon-ish thing to offer what you’re asking for?
It’s odd to me that people want this game to be like another game they left. Specifically saying a feature not the whole game because the way features like this work, they effect everyone regardless ofif you do or don’t want it or use it. It’s a server world
I don’t think it’s odd for people not to want a all encompassing searchable without logic, reason or basis on the game you’re playing when it’s a role playing game. Regardless of if we are or aren’t into the role play aspect as we still are playing a character.
This stuff matters to me.
I feel like you are selectively ignoring in game things because.. reasons? if the bunk is explained WHY does it work one way for guilds you are in, but the other for guilds you are not in? where exactly is it explained in game that being a member of the guild changes how physical item mailing works?
instantaneous magical communication does exist in game. from scrying bowls to magic mirrors, communication in this game can work the same way as in real life. sometimes its snail mail. and sometimes its as instant as a mirror call.
moreover - you are changing the subject and trying to turn it into "I just want it to be like that other game I played" show me a single game that works the way the compromise that I offered does? if one exists, its not the game I have personaly played. what I want for this game is to have less pointless time sinks. this. specific. game. it doesn't have to be the same way as other games work, but it should stop being so backwards and exclusionary.
if people didn't want all encompassing searchable? TTC would not exist and would NOT be as popular as it is right now. for all that "we like the game as it is" a suspicious number of those same people take advantage of TTC. and master merchant.
Let me discuss a bit more if I may...
There’s a difference between the world of eso and the users experience of playing ZOS’ game.
I’m not selectively ignoring what the user experiences however I am particular to always seperate the user from the game world. There’s a story I had of role play long ago......in short I learned that when playing online in a shared space my human isn’t my character and it’s very important that the two are always understood as separate.
Maybe “bunk” is a typo and it should read bank?
The bank exists in the game world as an actual bank. Traveling to other towns and having access to your items is explained or possible due to the traveling NPCs, merchants, horse and carts and the occasional NPC dialogue or NPCs found in need or dead.
Guild banks and guild stores....why they work for ones you’re in and ones you’re not in. It’s explained in the NPC dialogue and backed up as the GM establishes the “account” with the NPC. It’s obviously seperate as it’s members only, it doesn’t need a further explanation as it’s guild permission based not automatic.
Mail in the world of TES exists by means of NPCs traveling to you with messages so while that’s not a literal NPC interaction in this game it does happen on some quests so it’s there.
Instant communication between unknown soulless and unknown heroes with souls....No sorry. I have to stop and clarify....regardless of your UI settings and platform no one knows anyone, their story, their intent or even if another exists. So let’s consiser if you’re playing with no zone text chat, no console chat, no nameplates, and use only /s absent of a player name.
That’s the game world....in context
Regarding me changing the conversation....
I’m not accusing you of trying to make this whole game exactly like another I’m simply pointing out as I wrote before, you are seeking for this game to add features you’ve experienced in other games. Take your pick...the feature you want as described exists in some other games. Maybe not exactly as you describe but it’s the same.
Also, it’s not a compromise that you’re describing it’s your hope to add a feature. It’s not a situation where anything needs or has to change so there’s no compromise. Also whose to say anyone who is in the position to allow or deny any request is even considering anything? Just pointing out it’s not a compromise, it’s just a desire you have or a feature request.
There’s nothing wrong with your desire to want to reduce time syncs but the results of such desires has a direct impact on everyone playing the game. I like how the game works in terms of what we are discussing. I’m open to some changes but the basis to me works just fine. I agree your ideas of change don’t have to be the same as other games but the features you’re asking for as very similar to some other games so that’s how the request is interpreted. See it’s not the specifics of the feature you’re asking for but the experience that’s similar.
Believe it or not some of us enjoy what you refer to as exclusionary or limiting. What I can tell you is there are far fewer people who are using add-ons and such or external websites than how your comment reads.
Simply knowing there are three platforms where two don’t allow add-ons is part of it. The other part is that people use different means of doing things. I’m not saying there aren’t many who do, and I’m not even saying that the many who do don’t put number those who don’t but I do know it’s far fewer than how your comment reads.
Thing is....this has been discussed from pre PC closed beta up until now and so will something be added, I’d argue yes but is that better .... many will argue yes, many will argue no and many will not say a thing.
I’m just sharing my point of view on it
yes its bank, my typing can be.. iffy at times. and I'm guessing you meant sink not sync as well.
honestly, I cannot possibly agree with you, to me your explanations feel pulled by the ears to excuse the faulty system. and if we are going to talk about features existing in other games... scaling exists in other games, existed in them before ESO. research in some form and crafting of gear exists in other games. action combat with limited abilities displayed and limited skillpoints, but a ton of abilities you can level up, you just need to chose which ones you use is almost giving me neverwinter dejavu... and that's just the game I played. dodging and rolling is something I have first experienced in GW2. as is weapon switching. dye system is incredibly similar to that of GW2 with the only difference being dye acquisition. I can keep going btw.
are we really going to reject features just becasue other games have something similar? there will always be similarities between MMO's, especially MMO rpg's. designing the game on a basis of "it must be different" is just... odd.
and honestly? if given an opportunity, do you honestly think that people would NOT use addons on consoles? the biggest recent thing for consoles was the addition of addons for consoles for Bethesda games. and btw? TTC does extend to consoles. master merchant doesn't and given how often we've been seeying posts from people about ever growing weekly fees on consoles? they would LOVE master merchant like functionality, just so that they can track the actual sales instead of setting membership fees.
lastly. we may have a different definition of a compromise, but as far as i'm aware, compromise is finding a solution that is agreeable to the largest number of people. wanting things to stay as IS is NOT a compromise, its clinging to status quo. compromise by nature requires some change. and yes.. what I'm offering is a compromise. becasue my personal preference? would be to do away with guild traders all together. its one of the very few features of ESO I actively dislike. features I like vastly outnumber the ones that I don't, but it doesn't negate the fact that not everything in game is to my liking. my compromise, YES compromise is to adjust a system - add options to it, if you will that keep all the things that people who like exploiting it - want to keep, while at the same time giving option to people who are currently excluded from anything but occasional selling in chat - better selling experience. not to mention - better buying experience for most.
P.S. there were a lot of things in this game that didn't exist in Beta and at launch, that were changed and added later. and for the better. there will be things changing with upcoming DLC. and a LOT of this changes are a direct response to player requests. just saying.
Definately a typo again on my part. Nice catch. Freaking iPhone typing can be ....scary at best.
I won’t go as far as to suggest we should ignore a feature because it exists in another game BUT I do feel that just because a feature is possible due to experiences from another game, that shouldn’t be a reason why to add said feature to this game.
Whether add-ons were on console or not, I know that everyone wouldn’t use them because on console, using mods disable achievements so if the console folks consider add-ons a mod...which they are, then the use or view on what makes the experience better becomes very different and brings about other requests. There isn’t a literal example to use so as is I have to rely on non server based games that offer mods.
A compromise requires in this case the developers saying we want to change X and ....two or more sides express differences and all sides give up parts or some of their ideas to work together but that isn’t what’s going on here.
Let’s pretend that ZOS is making a change and both you and I ar expressing our views and opinions as well as desires to them. In this, if they say what about some of this and some of that and both of us agree to give up on some parts of both of our ideas ....then it becomes a compromise but as is.....I don’t believe either of our suggestions or ideas involve any part of the other so that’s not the right word. Saying you’d rather have none of what exists but you’ll compromise isn’t what you’re saying by word use.
I am saying the above just not as you wrote so it’s a different thought process. Also it’s fine that we don’t agree but it’s been a good discussion and I appreciate you listen and responding to me. Hope I’ve done the same to you.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on September 20, 2017 11:51AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »this system works for a certain kind of seller. but its awful for most buyers even with TTC (becasue you STILL have to hoof it all over the place, checking traders one by one -if you are lucky/don't mind paying higher price, it will be at the first trader you check, but more often then not - by the time you get there, the item is gone), its awful for anyone who is a sporadic seller or a sporadic player, the only thing this system is good for is gold sync.
and before someone says anything about me not understanding the system, I understand it fine. currently without selling tempers for that extra burst of gold I may want for luxury furnishings, I make 300k plus per week with my two non prime but decent nonetheless location guilds. not a power seller, but good enough to qualify for even a prime location guild without having to change anything about how I play.
I still. hate. this system. it sucks as a buyer (and I don't even want to contemplate how much more it sucks on console where awesome guild store doesn't exist). its a pain if you are not a regular seller. it NEEDS a rework.
@Linaleah
It's not clear in your comment "why it sucks" ......it's clear why you don't like parts of it but the feature as a whole, it's a very realistic experience.
Here's what I'm reading.....just picked your comment as an example to quote.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to have to go other places or search multiple times for items I want to buy. Instead I want to see any and everything in one place with one interaction.
-In a video game which uses multiple players on an massive online server in a role playing game, I don't want to be limited to who my listed items for sale are seen by, instead I want everyone to see everything in one interaction.
For arguments sake, would you agree that you dislike the real worlds model of buying and selling goods today?
given that I do bulk of my shopping on amazon, occasionally supplemented by a few other online retailers, are you sure you want me to answer that question? you may not get the answer you are expecting.
the system as it is right now is a time sink. pointless time sink. plenty of MMO's on the market do NOT have this pointless time sink and do just fine in terms of their economies. I don't play a fantasy video game for a "realistic" experience anyways.
why the system sucks? my comment does mention it. it excludes anyone that is not a daily player/seller. it excludes people with limited playtime that don't have an hour to spend running around just to buy couple of items (the point of buying rather then farming btw, is to save that time you would have spent farming) UI is absolutely awful. and its far more exploitable than centralized trading whether its an auction with bids, or just straight up trading - is.
Yes, I'm asking cause its good conversation.
Lets use your comment about Amazon. and lets add in the possibilities that you can buy everything you want and need from Amazon exclusively. That doesn't eliminate other goods and services being purchased and sold by ....another website, multi level marketing concepts, another legitimate brick and motor building, as well as some lady or guy selling items at a tent or out the back of their cars/trucks legitimately.
I'll agree that using Amazon for you and some as well as having that experience in a game seems "best" but as we know, the rest of the world for reasons known and unknown use other legitimate ways to buy and sale goods and services.
The world as a whole isn't pushing that everything and everyone move to one option so my observations are asking ZOS to change the game in order to push everyone towards one way would be friction causing just as if this occurred in real life. That's just one side...the customer side....there is still the business or sellers side of this and it would seem to follow a similar friction if implemented.
Thoughts?
thoughts? simple.
1. small business are online as well. amazon is not the only marketplace there is (did you know that what amazon sells is not all amazon, there are tons of sellers that sell THROUGH amazon, but are not actualy part OF amazon). then there's e-bay, etsy, Walmart is nowadays a marketplace not unlike amazon and heck even individual websites that are still easily accessible and usable with a click of a button and ability to compare prices without leaving amazon etc websites, so that you
2. I have zero problem with existence of brick and mortar, I do occasionally shop in brick and mortar stores when opportune (I did say bulk, not all). but what YOU and people who agree with you push for is that scattered brick and mortar is the ONLY way to shop. no amazon or places LIKE amazon.
a compromise was suggested many a time. allow people to list without being in a guild - make the listing fee higher vs listing with a guild to keep being in the guild desirable for sellers who are more consistent rather just want to sell here and there sporadically. keep individual kiosks, but also make all of them searchable and purchasable from - at a central location. add a surcharge (shipping costs if you will) for shopping at a central location vs directly at a kiosk. if you must keep the system - FIX it so that its more accessible to MORE people and less of an exploitable mess. as an added bonus, it should normalize kiosk costs.
1. I'm aware that Amazon is a network of vendors and sellers which is why this example makes sense to utilize. Its comparable to the discussion where Amazon is the Guild Store and the vendors or sellers are each player. As I also wrote about other outlets in various forms.... Follow my suggestion which offers more vendors access to the Guild store from 5 per player up to 25, that's a increase of 20 stores at most per player. Its the equivalent of not having to ever leave a desired town with a guild store in addition to access to the guild traders in said town....in some examples that's over 35 or more with no need to travel.
They are easily accessible to YOU, don't apply yourself as the reality of EVERYONE ELSE. (I'm no yelling but caps are to draw attention to words I seek to highlight).
Its not correct to look at another idea only from YOUR point of view and conclude that EVERYONE would be one in the same in terms of desires, access and frequency of use or benefit.
2. Not sure where you drew the idea that other outlets are the only way to shop. its more accurate to interpret that other outlets are for SOME, the ONLY way to shop as I wrote a few times, nothing applies equally to EVERYONE. (Again not yelling just drawing attention to specific words).
Regarding the use of the word "Compromise"
-This is a request of you and others from ONLY YOUR point of view excluding EVERYONE ELSE therefore SOME may use YOUR idea while others may not as in todays design, the reality is Guild Stores are not the ONLY way to buy and sale.
-Your suggestions aren't addressing all sides.
Specifically many are happy as is
many want changes
many don't care
many don't use any of this
Just sharing perspectives
all right, lets see if I can adress it point by point.
1. no, network of sellers on amazon is NOT players within the guild, its trading guilds within the server. your suggestion doesn't fix the problem of people who are not selling regularly enough to be IN a trading guild. it also doesn't address that you STILL most likely will have to travel all over the place, just to find that one item you are looking for.
they are easily accessible to EVERYONE (not shouting, emphasizing the word) with internet connection. shipping directly to home is a variable, but given that I don't live inside a major city, so most of the time - have to pick up my packages from a post office - I get that. its STILL more convenient and faster then driving around from store to store to look for an item that may not even be there. unlike real life, I cannot just call a store ahead and ask them if its still available - in ESO, I have to physically get to the trader and check. heck there was this one time when i found an item on TTC and went to the location it was supposed to be listed... only to find that that guild lost their trader for a week, putting me back to square one. and that is WITH addons alleviating some of the issues on PC.
2. by rejecting centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores.
people who are no looking for a change - are not looking for a compromise to begin with. it also doesn't fix the system for the majority. my compromise (which wasn't even originally suggested by me - I just think its an awesome idea) addresses people who are willing to give a little, while still keeping the core of what they enjoy about the system - trader kiosks, trading guilds and looking for deals in far away locations.
people who don't care are irrelevant as they are not affected.
people who are not using any of this - you have to ask yourself a question. why? why aren't they using it? is it becasue they don't care? or because the system is convoluted and inaccessible for them?
I am also merely sharing perspective. the difference is - you don't think the change is needed. I do.
@Linaleah
Fair lets touch on this point by point that a good way to break down the discussion.
1. Amazon IS a company who provides services to others who seek a way to sale, or buy goods and services.
-Guild Store in a trading guild is a group of players who've come together in order to list items for others to buy and where players also may join for better access to buy. In some of these, resources are pooled to obtain a Guild Trader.
-Guild Store in a non-trade guild offers the same exact features and options subject to the members desires which may or may not resemble a trading guilds actions and intent.
-Guild Trader is an extension of the Guild store whereas the Guild Store is an additional opportunity made available to more players at a specific location per week.
Amazon is just as accessible in the game of ESO as a Guild trader in context to the games technology compared the worlds technology in 2017. So in the correct context of what we are discussing, I would argue Amazon is literally the accurate reference based on your analogy. Convenience and reasonable, as well as accessible and possible all matter in our discussion in context to this game.
ESO:
-We don't have the internet, or satellites, nor do we have fiber optic, DSL, Cable, Cell phones, or hard line phones.
-The game allows us humans technology means but our actual characters behave and interact in a dated environment where outside of magic.....instant access isn't possible at all. So the context of the Amazon example while its easy to understand, doesn't make a strong argument as to what ESO the game should offer if we are putting into context of ESO....the world not XYZ game on PC, Xbox and PlayStation.
2. You write, "Rejecting a centralized search and shopping from a single location in favor of scattered kiosks, you ARE in fact suggesting that we don't have an outlet like amazon, ONLY scattered stores."
- This idea that everything should be instant and accessible anywhere....lacks a meaningful reality in the game.
- How is this magical search happening in context of ESO?
In the world we have the internet, satellite, cell and hard line phones, fiber optic, DSL, Cable, etc. that exists to allow such to occur. And with all of that, we still cant search all outlets from one place.
At this point I'm respectfully going to argue.....very simply put.....This suggestion has to make sense in context to what is going on and as its often expressed, it doesn't align. The system isn't broken, its just not what some others want.
At least come with lore based means with some deadric and cosmic powers that exist to suggest how someone is ......and BAM they all of a sudden should be able to see, grab, send, receive things magically in the game.
Looking at how transmutation is being added....its coming with context.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on if there's a better way, at least give credit to the game not being one where things added aren't literally pulled out of the blue like what other games do.
amazon provides "kiosks" if you will for companies large and small. that is why amazon is not a guild but rather a server itself. but unlike guild traders - the space amazon provides is virtually limitless, becasue unlike guild kiosks, amazon doesn't limit either number of stores its willing to host, or how many people are allowed to be a part of the company represented.
moreover whenever I search for an item on amazon? ALL the results show up regardless of who listed them.
ESO. we have magic, instant travel, instant communication via magic, moreover - we can acess our banked items and gold from every. single. banker in a game. no matter where they are located. with upcoming update? we will also be able to deliver our crafting writs to any. turn in. spot. in a game. regardless of who supposedly ordered those items via in game text. what we also have is near instant delivery of mail. ANY mail. doesn't matter where you were when you bought something - you could be in Auridon shopping your own guild's listings, and your guild kiosk is in Wrothgar - your get your purchase delivered right away. same goes for listing. I can list items at any banker and they immediately show up at the trader nowhere near where i listed them. like magic. heck our modern technology cannot do that, not with physical items like ESO can.
arguing against being able to search and buy more then your guild from central location give all of the above is a bit.. odd, no? in context of the game it makes PERFECT sense to be able to shop at a central location. because its already here. in game. with zero lore explanation. the restriction is arbitrary.
- We see Amazon the same in general 2017 world or real life. It seems we don’t agree on Amazons context if it were looked at in the world of ESO.
-In ESO the game world, a limitless and infinite listing and search that’s all encompassing....I understand why you want it but why and how does this become possible in the eso world.
Not on a ZOS server but more specific to ask....what in the eso world has occurred that our characters to get this new power that wasn’t possible?
We do have the ability to teleport, attack, heal and shield with magic as well as craft and soon change some properties of items but all of that is explained in lore.
Bank access is also logically explained and meaningful as it occurs with NPCs, and assistants with actual structures incorporated.
Communication isn’t actually instant ....not trying to be weird but text chat or voice chat isn’t how our characters communicate it’s how the users communicate so thats not of the ESo world.
Mail is sent and while we don’t have mailboxes to check the mail in terms of items for arguments sake does occur in the game world of eso in an unexplained manner. So I’m with you here.
Problem is guild stores and kiosks work within the game exclusively absent of user based tools like mail.
I don’t want to put sway on this so I’m gonna go off on a magical tangent. Would the mail system change to this user based feature absent of eso game world logic to some 2017 Amazon-ish thing to offer what you’re asking for?
It’s odd to me that people want this game to be like another game they left. Specifically saying a feature not the whole game because the way features like this work, they effect everyone regardless ofif you do or don’t want it or use it. It’s a server world
I don’t think it’s odd for people not to want a all encompassing searchable without logic, reason or basis on the game you’re playing when it’s a role playing game. Regardless of if we are or aren’t into the role play aspect as we still are playing a character.
This stuff matters to me.
I feel like you are selectively ignoring in game things because.. reasons? if the bunk is explained WHY does it work one way for guilds you are in, but the other for guilds you are not in? where exactly is it explained in game that being a member of the guild changes how physical item mailing works?
instantaneous magical communication does exist in game. from scrying bowls to magic mirrors, communication in this game can work the same way as in real life. sometimes its snail mail. and sometimes its as instant as a mirror call.
moreover - you are changing the subject and trying to turn it into "I just want it to be like that other game I played" show me a single game that works the way the compromise that I offered does? if one exists, its not the game I have personaly played. what I want for this game is to have less pointless time sinks. this. specific. game. it doesn't have to be the same way as other games work, but it should stop being so backwards and exclusionary.
if people didn't want all encompassing searchable? TTC would not exist and would NOT be as popular as it is right now. for all that "we like the game as it is" a suspicious number of those same people take advantage of TTC. and master merchant.
Let me discuss a bit more if I may...
There’s a difference between the world of eso and the users experience of playing ZOS’ game.
I’m not selectively ignoring what the user experiences however I am particular to always seperate the user from the game world. There’s a story I had of role play long ago......in short I learned that when playing online in a shared space my human isn’t my character and it’s very important that the two are always understood as separate.
Maybe “bunk” is a typo and it should read bank?
The bank exists in the game world as an actual bank. Traveling to other towns and having access to your items is explained or possible due to the traveling NPCs, merchants, horse and carts and the occasional NPC dialogue or NPCs found in need or dead.
Guild banks and guild stores....why they work for ones you’re in and ones you’re not in. It’s explained in the NPC dialogue and backed up as the GM establishes the “account” with the NPC. It’s obviously seperate as it’s members only, it doesn’t need a further explanation as it’s guild permission based not automatic.
Mail in the world of TES exists by means of NPCs traveling to you with messages so while that’s not a literal NPC interaction in this game it does happen on some quests so it’s there.
Instant communication between unknown soulless and unknown heroes with souls....No sorry. I have to stop and clarify....regardless of your UI settings and platform no one knows anyone, their story, their intent or even if another exists. So let’s consiser if you’re playing with no zone text chat, no console chat, no nameplates, and use only /s absent of a player name.
That’s the game world....in context
Regarding me changing the conversation....
I’m not accusing you of trying to make this whole game exactly like another I’m simply pointing out as I wrote before, you are seeking for this game to add features you’ve experienced in other games. Take your pick...the feature you want as described exists in some other games. Maybe not exactly as you describe but it’s the same.
Also, it’s not a compromise that you’re describing it’s your hope to add a feature. It’s not a situation where anything needs or has to change so there’s no compromise. Also whose to say anyone who is in the position to allow or deny any request is even considering anything? Just pointing out it’s not a compromise, it’s just a desire you have or a feature request.
There’s nothing wrong with your desire to want to reduce time syncs but the results of such desires has a direct impact on everyone playing the game. I like how the game works in terms of what we are discussing. I’m open to some changes but the basis to me works just fine. I agree your ideas of change don’t have to be the same as other games but the features you’re asking for as very similar to some other games so that’s how the request is interpreted. See it’s not the specifics of the feature you’re asking for but the experience that’s similar.
Believe it or not some of us enjoy what you refer to as exclusionary or limiting. What I can tell you is there are far fewer people who are using add-ons and such or external websites than how your comment reads.
Simply knowing there are three platforms where two don’t allow add-ons is part of it. The other part is that people use different means of doing things. I’m not saying there aren’t many who do, and I’m not even saying that the many who do don’t put number those who don’t but I do know it’s far fewer than how your comment reads.
Thing is....this has been discussed from pre PC closed beta up until now and so will something be added, I’d argue yes but is that better .... many will argue yes, many will argue no and many will not say a thing.
I’m just sharing my point of view on it
yes its bank, my typing can be.. iffy at times. and I'm guessing you meant sink not sync as well.
honestly, I cannot possibly agree with you, to me your explanations feel pulled by the ears to excuse the faulty system. and if we are going to talk about features existing in other games... scaling exists in other games, existed in them before ESO. research in some form and crafting of gear exists in other games. action combat with limited abilities displayed and limited skillpoints, but a ton of abilities you can level up, you just need to chose which ones you use is almost giving me neverwinter dejavu... and that's just the game I played. dodging and rolling is something I have first experienced in GW2. as is weapon switching. dye system is incredibly similar to that of GW2 with the only difference being dye acquisition. I can keep going btw.
are we really going to reject features just becasue other games have something similar? there will always be similarities between MMO's, especially MMO rpg's. designing the game on a basis of "it must be different" is just... odd.
and honestly? if given an opportunity, do you honestly think that people would NOT use addons on consoles? the biggest recent thing for consoles was the addition of addons for consoles for Bethesda games. and btw? TTC does extend to consoles. master merchant doesn't and given how often we've been seeying posts from people about ever growing weekly fees on consoles? they would LOVE master merchant like functionality, just so that they can track the actual sales instead of setting membership fees.
lastly. we may have a different definition of a compromise, but as far as i'm aware, compromise is finding a solution that is agreeable to the largest number of people. wanting things to stay as IS is NOT a compromise, its clinging to status quo. compromise by nature requires some change. and yes.. what I'm offering is a compromise. becasue my personal preference? would be to do away with guild traders all together. its one of the very few features of ESO I actively dislike. features I like vastly outnumber the ones that I don't, but it doesn't negate the fact that not everything in game is to my liking. my compromise, YES compromise is to adjust a system - add options to it, if you will that keep all the things that people who like exploiting it - want to keep, while at the same time giving option to people who are currently excluded from anything but occasional selling in chat - better selling experience. not to mention - better buying experience for most.
P.S. there were a lot of things in this game that didn't exist in Beta and at launch, that were changed and added later. and for the better. there will be things changing with upcoming DLC. and a LOT of this changes are a direct response to player requests. just saying.
Definately a typo again on my part. Nice catch. Freaking iPhone typing can be ....scary at best.
I won’t go as far as to suggest we should ignore a feature because it exists in another game BUT I do feel that just because a feature is possible due to experiences from another game, that shouldn’t be a reason why to add said feature to this game.
Whether add-ons were on console or not, I know that everyone wouldn’t use them because on console, using mods disable achievements so if the console folks consider add-ons a mod...which they are, then the use or view on what makes the experience better becomes very different and brings about other requests. There isn’t a literal example to use so as is I have to rely on non server based games that offer mods.
A compromise requires in this case the developers saying we want to change X and ....two or more sides express differences and all sides give up parts or some of their ideas to work together but that isn’t what’s going on here.
Let’s pretend that ZOS is making a change and both you and I ar expressing our views and opinions as well as desires to them. In this, if they say what about some of this and some of that and both of us agree to give up on some parts of both of our ideas ....then it becomes a compromise but as is.....I don’t believe either of our suggestions or ideas involve any part of the other so that’s not the right word. Saying you’d rather have none of what exists but you’ll compromise isn’t what you’re saying by word use.
I am saying the above just not as you wrote so it’s a different thought process. Also it’s fine that we don’t agree but it’s been a good discussion and I appreciate you listen and responding to me. Hope I’ve done the same to you.
I do appreciate the conversation as well. something to clarify. you keep insisting that me and others that want the system change - want it becasue other games do it a certain way, no. no . no. no. that's NOT why we want it changed. we want it changed here in this game, so that we could enjoy trading more. in this game. this is not a case of " I want this game to be more like that other game" its a case of - i want this game to be more enjoyable, period.
while yes, achievements on console get disabled - this is an MMO. as in the game you play even after you get your platinum (or whatever x-box equivalent is, sorry, I don't have xbox, only ps4, so not sure what meta achievement is called there) at the point where you got your platinum... does it really matter if you disable your achievements? quality of life improvements that addons provide at that point far outweigh disabling of achievement gain that you have already acquired. not to mention - plenty of people just plain don't care about achievements in a first place. Bethesda and Sony/Microsoft wouldn't be adding addon support to consoles if it was not a highly requested feature.
as for compromises... given that my suggestion literally keeps current system and merely adds extra functionality to it... I'm not sure how it doesn't work as a compromise or contains no ideas from the other's point of view. saying that I would rather have the system scrapped, but becasue there are people who enjoy it for whatever reasons - lets keep it and simply make it more accessible to more people by adding more options, while keeping incentives to trade as you do now (higher fees to trade outside of the guild so staying in guild is still preferable if you are looking for higher profits, extra surcharges for buying from central location - none directly at the trader - making items at the kiosk cost less, so it makes sense to travel to kiosk to buy them still if you would rather save gold, vs time) is EXACTLY how compromises work.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Stormahawk✭✭✭✭So many conspiracy theories about guild traders flying around. I co-GM one of the largest NA trading guilds and we actually are almost never full at 500. I will recruit in zone occasionally and then send out a couple of invites that way. It's pretty easy to get into a large trading guild. All you have to do is ask to join. Even asking zone chat for a trading guild invite will likely get you one.
I don't know how it is for console or European servers, but the few guilds that do have fees are in capital cities and those fees can be avoided by reaching a certain sales number.
The bids are high in capital cities simply because everyone wants to be there, but generally only the most active guilds with leadership willing to put in the time and effort will be able to hold a stall. Think of the stalls in capital cities like leaderboards. The best and most active guilds at the top will be in the best stalls. Complaining about a small guild not being able to afford a Rawl bid is like complaining about not being at the top of the leaderboard for game content you don't play much.2 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »Kiosk prices are rising because large trading guilds bid on other locations with a Dummy Guild just in case they lose their regular location.
Personally I just want an inclusive trading system, rather than the band aid which is guild traders.
This. The large guilds all hiked their dues at the same time.
Coincidence? Maybe, but doubtful.
Unfortunately, I recall four of them using the same verbiage in the guild notes regarding the increase...verbatim.
0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Linaleah
Wanted to comment on the achievement part
-It does matter as each dlc update adds more achievements to the game it’s not a situation where we could’ve done every achievement in the past so due to how updates in this game continue to add more console achievements IF add-ons were allowed and they turned off achievements, essentially it becomes all or nothing.
We either never use any add-on or we always use them because once used once, that save is forever changed.
This game has just one save file on the console rather than each character being it’s own save....odd but that’s how it was explained when the console transfer from PC to Xbox and PS4 were explained by ZOS.
I now understand that you and others don’t want a feature added because another game has it. I do still feel that as a result of other game experiences, it created the desire for this in you all as the context and experience of something has influence. Maybe my thoughts are wrong tho.
Lastly...your desire and suggestion are a request not a compromise. Sorry to be weird but it’s just the wrong word but I understand what you’re saying.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »Kiosk prices are rising because large trading guilds bid on other locations with a Dummy Guild just in case they lose their regular location.
Personally I just want an inclusive trading system, rather than the band aid which is guild traders.
This. The large guilds all hiked their dues at the same time.
Coincidence? Maybe, but doubtful.
Unfortunately, I recall four of them using the same verbiage in the guild notes regarding the increase...verbatim.
Something to keep in mind is that a lot of the top sellers share guilds. 30 spots isn't enough to make mad bank. And if you want to be a top seller 4-5 of your guilds are trade guilds. So even if they aren't technically working together, when it starts happening in one guild it quickly gets passed around to the others.1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Cherryblossom wrote: »Kiosk prices are rising because large trading guilds bid on other locations with a Dummy Guild just in case they lose their regular location.
Personally I just want an inclusive trading system, rather than the band aid which is guild traders.
This. The large guilds all hiked their dues at the same time.
Coincidence? Maybe, but doubtful.
Unfortunately, I recall four of them using the same verbiage in the guild notes regarding the increase...verbatim.
Something to keep in mind is that a lot of the top sellers share guilds. 30 spots isn't enough to make mad bank. And if you want to be a top seller 4-5 of your guilds are trade guilds. So even if they aren't technically working together, when it starts happening in one guild it quickly gets passed around to the others.
While I agree there's nothing wrong with being in other top guilds, it highlights the underlying argument against a central auction house.
Dues are out of control. Why is the economy jacked up on PS4? I grow tired of "it is what it is".
People are worried about people cornering the market. I would argue it's already happening and to a larger scale and with more items.
Large conglomerates are generally bad for the consumer.3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭C. Keeps at least of 75% players off the active trading.
But yes its a great system in which no matter how many players are on and how many trading guilds there are the limit on kiosks is the same. Isnt that wonderful?
While I don't have a definitive opinion on auction house - I'm pretty neutral about it - that's always seemed a weird argument for me. I get where you're coming from but in my experience this is NOT the case. What puts 75%(or whatever random % number you wanna throw in there - but yes, there're people put off trading in this game) of playerbase off trading is the players themselves, who feel overwhelmed, confused, then see threads like this and decide to settle on this being a cruel world in which they will never be able to trade rather than bother with some research or something of the sort. It would actually be nice if there was some very basic "here's how this works" guild traders tutorial because I can totally see how it can be confusing to a newcomer.
The reality is, yes there're not enough traders for every single guild in the game to have, but at the same time I don't know ANYONE who'd actually actively want to trade and be unable to get into a guild with a trader. You get 5 guildslots, it's not unreasonable to leave one of them for trading. Trade guilds are recruiting all the time. Ask your friends. Look at active hubs' zchat. When I decided I needed a trader I asked some of my friends and 5 hours later I was in a trade guild with consistent trader in Mournhold(who don't even have any fees nor op sales quota). They do kicking of inactive/not actively trading members weekly so are recruiting weekly as well. I see advertisements of trade guilds with traders in zchat all the time - might not always be a top trading spot trader offered but it's there, you just gotta pay a little bit of attention. It's most certainly not a l33t little circle where no outsiders can ever get that some people are making it out to be.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Linaleah
Wanted to comment on the achievement part
-It does matter as each dlc update adds more achievements to the game it’s not a situation where we could’ve done every achievement in the past so due to how updates in this game continue to add more console achievements IF add-ons were allowed and they turned off achievements, essentially it becomes all or nothing.
We either never use any add-on or we always use them because once used once, that save is forever changed.
This game has just one save file on the console rather than each character being it’s own save....odd but that’s how it was explained when the console transfer from PC to Xbox and PS4 were explained by ZOS.
I now understand that you and others don’t want a feature added because another game has it. I do still feel that as a result of other game experiences, it created the desire for this in you all as the context and experience of something has influence. Maybe my thoughts are wrong tho.
Lastly...your desire and suggestion are a request not a compromise. Sorry to be weird but it’s just the wrong word but I understand what you’re saying.
I feel like maybe there is a language barrier or something? becasue i'm genuinely confused as to what you think a compromise is. becasue definition that I'm aware of is "trying to find middle ground"
(as far as wanting improvement to trading, maybe playing other games had some influence, but I would wager.. realizing that you have one hour in the evening to play and you can either quest OR shop becasue shopping is so time consuming, NOT both.. has something to do with it as well)Edited by Linaleah on September 20, 2017 4:12PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Linaleah
Wanted to comment on the achievement part
-It does matter as each dlc update adds more achievements to the game it’s not a situation where we could’ve done every achievement in the past so due to how updates in this game continue to add more console achievements IF add-ons were allowed and they turned off achievements, essentially it becomes all or nothing.
We either never use any add-on or we always use them because once used once, that save is forever changed.
This game has just one save file on the console rather than each character being it’s own save....odd but that’s how it was explained when the console transfer from PC to Xbox and PS4 were explained by ZOS.
I now understand that you and others don’t want a feature added because another game has it. I do still feel that as a result of other game experiences, it created the desire for this in you all as the context and experience of something has influence. Maybe my thoughts are wrong tho.
Lastly...your desire and suggestion are a request not a compromise. Sorry to be weird but it’s just the wrong word but I understand what you’re saying.
I feel like maybe there is a language barrier or something? becasue i'm genuinely confused as to what you think a compromise is. becasue definition that I'm aware of is "trying to find middle ground"
(as far as wanting improvement to trading, maybe playing other games had some influence, but I would wager.. realizing that you have one hour in the evening to play and you can either quest OR shop becasue shopping is so time consuming, NOT both.. has something to do with it as well)
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
It’s not a middle ground.....usually it’s two or more seperate ideas or desires that result in each independent idea stripping away parts.
Regarding the comment about influence and/or playtime....
I see your comment as suggesting you feel limited because you want to do this, that and the other in whatever time you have or don’t have. O K I get that but everyone doesn’t go about it that way.
I’m going to speak for myself and my real life friend who plays TES, ESO and other RP games.
We get on to play as it’s the desire to play the game. It’s not a focus on how many things can I do in this amount of time it’s the intent to go into a world for experiences. Some new and some to repeat but with online games it becomes a focus to experience something new and repeat with different people or roles.
For me and this guy, it’s not a focus to see how much stuff I can find to sale or how much stuff I can find to buy ever.
I’m a crafter so I run into situations where I need this and that, but I’m a casual player so there’s never a rush. For us this isn’t a job or a race but he unlike me is a completionist so we play together and split off.
I don’t think the way you go about playing or others is necessarily bad but it’s a very different focus. That difference can lead you and others to wanting other features but those desires are often times referenced or understood from other examples from other games. When the desire is described using the description x or y game utilized to describe a feature it’s interpreted that you’re asking for that.
So when people write things like AH, auction house, traders, trade market, etc. it’s interpreted as such because that’s a real thing. From your comments it helps to comprehend variances from the interpretation but when you follow those thoughts with the use of words like “compromise” this can cause the contextual understanding to revert back to the origin of the feature your describing from x or y game.
There’s not a language barrier in our case at least....maybe typing from me is miscommuniting to you so my bad.Edited by NewBlacksmurf on September 20, 2017 4:31PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »
The current guild trader kiosk system is the only thing that keeps monopolies in check.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o
Really, you haven't noticed the huge guilds buying fake dummy locations to resell to the highest bidder, or to block out competition0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Linaleah
Wanted to comment on the achievement part
-It does matter as each dlc update adds more achievements to the game it’s not a situation where we could’ve done every achievement in the past so due to how updates in this game continue to add more console achievements IF add-ons were allowed and they turned off achievements, essentially it becomes all or nothing.
We either never use any add-on or we always use them because once used once, that save is forever changed.
This game has just one save file on the console rather than each character being it’s own save....odd but that’s how it was explained when the console transfer from PC to Xbox and PS4 were explained by ZOS.
I now understand that you and others don’t want a feature added because another game has it. I do still feel that as a result of other game experiences, it created the desire for this in you all as the context and experience of something has influence. Maybe my thoughts are wrong tho.
Lastly...your desire and suggestion are a request not a compromise. Sorry to be weird but it’s just the wrong word but I understand what you’re saying.
I feel like maybe there is a language barrier or something? becasue i'm genuinely confused as to what you think a compromise is. becasue definition that I'm aware of is "trying to find middle ground"
(as far as wanting improvement to trading, maybe playing other games had some influence, but I would wager.. realizing that you have one hour in the evening to play and you can either quest OR shop becasue shopping is so time consuming, NOT both.. has something to do with it as well)
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
It’s not a middle ground.....usually it’s two or more seperate ideas or desires that result in each independent idea stripping away parts.
Regarding the comment about influence and/or playtime....
I see your comment as suggesting you feel limited because you want to do this, that and the other in whatever time you have or don’t have. O K I get that but everyone doesn’t go about it that way.
I’m going to speak for myself and my real life friend who plays TES, ESO and other RP games.
We get on to play as it’s the desire to play the game. It’s not a focus on how many things can I do in this amount of time it’s the intent to go into a world for experiences. Some new and some to repeat but with online games it becomes a focus to experience something new and repeat with different people or roles.
For me and this guy, it’s not a focus to see how much stuff I can find to sale or how much stuff I can find to buy ever.
I’m a crafter so I run into situations where I need this and that, but I’m a casual player so there’s never a rush. For us this isn’t a job or a race but he unlike me is a completionist so we play together and split off.
I don’t think the way you go about playing or others is necessarily bad but it’s a very different focus. That difference can lead you and others to wanting other features but those desires are often times referenced or understood from other examples from other games. When the desire is described using the description x or y game utilized to describe a feature it’s interpreted that you’re asking for that.
So when people write things like AH, auction house, traders, trade market, etc. it’s interpreted as such because that’s a real thing. From your comments it helps to comprehend variances from the interpretation but when you follow those thoughts with the use of words like “compromise” this can cause the contextual understanding to revert back to the origin of the feature your describing from x or y game.
There’s not a language barrier in our case at least....maybe typing from me is miscommuniting to you so my bad.
I really do feel like there is a language barrier here. becasue lets take my example of amended trading system. I make a concession to keep the system in place. fans of the current system make a concession to add ability to trade from central location and without needing to be in a guild. both sides get at least partly what they want. how is this NOT a compromise? you don't have to give up completely and come up with something different. finding a middle ground between 2 desires IS finding a compromise. (sort of aside - I've had this theory for a while, why so many people have trouble in relationships. becasue instead of finding a solution that pleases/works for both, they go for solution that pleases neither of them and consider THAT a compromise. and since neither of them is even remotely happy, the "compromise" is a failure all around. aside over)
you keep talking about other games. and I'm talking about THIS game. all the ways current system in THIS game can adversely affect a chunk of its population. what other games do or don;t do is not the point here. the point is to make THIS game more inclusive for the players of THIS game. because so much of this game relies on trading - crafting research, recipes, motifs, materials, gear - since no single player can be an island here. shouldn't trading be more accessible? as weird as it sounds - casual players, the kind that have no time or inclination to post on the forums, the kinda that trade occasionally rather then regularly (among other things) tend to also make up a bulk of any MMO community. and even though system was already changed since launch. in case you didn't know, you used to only be able to trade within your guild - both buy and sell, kiosks weren't added until well after launch, and the change was added because trading being this unaccesible wasn't working. adding kiosks was a compromise. why is adding one central kiosk then is such a no no?
people are using existing terminology btw becasue its easier. not because they want this game to be a copy of some other game. should we stop using terms like dps, tank, healer - just becasue other games use it too? used it first?
last but not least. I know that everyone plays differently. some people even play this game exclusively for trading. which is why my suggestion for a COMPROMISE keeps current system rather then replace it. with a few additional options, but the current system of guilds and kiosks would STILL exist and STILL be viable. the question is.. why are those people the only ones whose option apparently matters? those people are, after all also likely the reason why fewer and fewer guilds can afford to win trader bids week after week and have to raise their minimums, push their player base into investing more into trading (or leave). these people are why original post exists. why do their desires matter more then everyone else's?
P.S. I give you main page of TTC. https://tamrieltradecentre.com/ notice that ALL 3 PLATFORMS ARE REPRESENTED. even despite all the addon limitations on consoles, people are STILL using centralized listings. on consoles.Edited by Linaleah on September 20, 2017 5:38PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »@Linaleah
Wanted to comment on the achievement part
-It does matter as each dlc update adds more achievements to the game it’s not a situation where we could’ve done every achievement in the past so due to how updates in this game continue to add more console achievements IF add-ons were allowed and they turned off achievements, essentially it becomes all or nothing.
We either never use any add-on or we always use them because once used once, that save is forever changed.
This game has just one save file on the console rather than each character being it’s own save....odd but that’s how it was explained when the console transfer from PC to Xbox and PS4 were explained by ZOS.
I now understand that you and others don’t want a feature added because another game has it. I do still feel that as a result of other game experiences, it created the desire for this in you all as the context and experience of something has influence. Maybe my thoughts are wrong tho.
Lastly...your desire and suggestion are a request not a compromise. Sorry to be weird but it’s just the wrong word but I understand what you’re saying.
I feel like maybe there is a language barrier or something? becasue i'm genuinely confused as to what you think a compromise is. becasue definition that I'm aware of is "trying to find middle ground"
(as far as wanting improvement to trading, maybe playing other games had some influence, but I would wager.. realizing that you have one hour in the evening to play and you can either quest OR shop becasue shopping is so time consuming, NOT both.. has something to do with it as well)
noun
1.
an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
It’s not a middle ground.....usually it’s two or more seperate ideas or desires that result in each independent idea stripping away parts.
Regarding the comment about influence and/or playtime....
I see your comment as suggesting you feel limited because you want to do this, that and the other in whatever time you have or don’t have. O K I get that but everyone doesn’t go about it that way.
I’m going to speak for myself and my real life friend who plays TES, ESO and other RP games.
We get on to play as it’s the desire to play the game. It’s not a focus on how many things can I do in this amount of time it’s the intent to go into a world for experiences. Some new and some to repeat but with online games it becomes a focus to experience something new and repeat with different people or roles.
For me and this guy, it’s not a focus to see how much stuff I can find to sale or how much stuff I can find to buy ever.
I’m a crafter so I run into situations where I need this and that, but I’m a casual player so there’s never a rush. For us this isn’t a job or a race but he unlike me is a completionist so we play together and split off.
I don’t think the way you go about playing or others is necessarily bad but it’s a very different focus. That difference can lead you and others to wanting other features but those desires are often times referenced or understood from other examples from other games. When the desire is described using the description x or y game utilized to describe a feature it’s interpreted that you’re asking for that.
So when people write things like AH, auction house, traders, trade market, etc. it’s interpreted as such because that’s a real thing. From your comments it helps to comprehend variances from the interpretation but when you follow those thoughts with the use of words like “compromise” this can cause the contextual understanding to revert back to the origin of the feature your describing from x or y game.
There’s not a language barrier in our case at least....maybe typing from me is miscommuniting to you so my bad.
I really do feel like there is a language barrier here. becasue lets take my example of amended trading system. I make a concession to keep the system in place. fans of the current system make a concession to add ability to trade from central location and without needing to be in a guild. both sides get at least partly what they want. how is this NOT a compromise? you don't have to give up completely and come up with something different. finding a middle ground between 2 desires IS finding a compromise. (sort of aside - I've had this theory for a while, why so many people have trouble in relationships. becasue instead of finding a solution that pleases/works for both, they go for solution that pleases neither of them and consider THAT a compromise. and since neither of them is even remotely happy, the "compromise" is a failure all around. aside over)
you keep talking about other games. and I'm talking about THIS game. all the ways current system in THIS game can adversely affect a chunk of its population. what other games do or don;t do is not the point here. the point is to make THIS game more inclusive for the players of THIS game. because so much of this game relies on trading - crafting research, recipes, motifs, materials, gear - since no single player can be an island here. shouldn't trading be more accessible? as weird as it sounds - casual players, the kind that have no time or inclination to post on the forums, the kinda that trade occasionally rather then regularly (among other things) tend to also make up a bulk of any MMO community. and even though system was already changed since launch. in case you didn't know, you used to only be able to trade within your guild - both buy and sell, kiosks weren't added until well after launch, and the change was added because trading being this unaccesible wasn't working. adding kiosks was a compromise. why is adding one central kiosk then is such a no no?
people are using existing terminology btw becasue its easier. not because they want this game to be a copy of some other game. should we stop using terms like dps, tank, healer - just becasue other games use it too? used it first?
last but not least. I know that everyone plays differently. some people even play this game exclusively for trading. which is why my suggestion for a COMPROMISE keeps current system rather then replace it. with a few additional options, but the current system of guilds and kiosks would STILL exist and STILL be viable. the question is.. why are those people the only ones whose option apparently matters? those people are, after all also likely the reason why fewer and fewer guilds can afford to win trader bids week after week and have to raise their minimums, push their player base into investing more into trading (or leave). these people are why original post exists. why do their desires matter more then everyone else's?
P.S. I give you main page of TTC. https://tamrieltradecentre.com/ notice that ALL 3 PLATFORMS ARE REPRESENTED. even despite all the addon limitations on consoles, people are STILL using centralized listings. on consoles.
FYI I own this on PC and Xbox one. Been around since PC closed beta. I’m familiar with the add-ons and website you posted.
In short it’s not a compromise it’s a collaboration of different requests from different people. It’s never been a situation where it’s simple as ppl for traders, ppl for guild stores and ppl for new features being a collective group of the same desires. No One from ZOS is entertaining any part of for or against anyone’s desires so no one is giving up or getting anything.....you’re using the wrong term.
If it helps to discuss in terms of those groups, understand there are small to drastic differences of opinions within each. But again....no one is getting or giving up anything, it’s just discussions and expressions of opinions and desires.
If anything ZOS would be who is compromising if we want to use that term but this isn’t at the point of any consideration.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on September 20, 2017 6:10PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭All these people collaborated and created websites and addons because there is an overwhelming interest/desire in having the information readily available.
Yet if one asks to have it build into the game it's like as if one tries to invoke molag bal hisself.
Might be interesting to know what kind of traffic the tamriel trade centre website has.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
Thrymbauld✭✭✭The arguments against an "auction house" are just plain silly.
It won't cause monopolies and price fixing. It's outright foolish to think that the current system keeps that in check, and a person need only make a cursory glance at who owns the booths to prove it. Short of a few outliers, the booths are steady, with the same ownership for long periods of time. Indeed, when I quit way back when the veteran ranks where introduced, some of the very same guilds have booths in the same locations that have them now! The monopolies on commerce already exist, and the problem is actually much, MUCH worse because a smaller group of people even get the opportunities due to this system. If everyone had the same access, these prices would have to be "fixed" by far more people and far more supply than currently does so.
It won't hurt price flexibility. Today I had to buy a couple resources and they where much higher than last time. I can shop around, to be certain, and.....they're all the same. At best, there are trivial undercuts here and there, but virtually all prices have gone up. There aren't less nodes, there isn't a particular thing causing it, it's essentially the same price fixing you see in the real world on gasoline. Those with access to sales chose a price, chose to make it higher, and as a group it followed suit. In fact, the problem is actually corrected if we all get in on the action.
The idea that people should simply shout in town if they aren't in a trade guild is....bad. Just plain bad. To suggest that people should have to stand around and look for buyers for their wares if they are not involved in this system shows an arrogance that defies belief because it is a direct suggestion that their time is not worth as much as those who monopolize the booths.
Truth is, I buy from the same places over and over again. No surprise, these are some of the highest volume booths in the game. Why do I do this? Convenient location, steady inventory supply, steadiest pricing in the game---this is one of the highest, if not THE highest volume trade hubs in the game. The exact things an auction house would also provide are what I get from this location, except on a global scale without choosing to deliberately exclude anyone not in this half dozen guilds.
A non-stupid UI and textual search certainly would be nothing but a boon to every one of us, and that has nothing to do with the current clunky guild system versus an auction house. Nearly everything can be text searched, except the Elder Scrolls Online trading system......seriously? Is there an immersion factor in load screens and hitting your search button at fifty locations to skim the textual listings? The lack of usability adds nothing to the game except frustration.1 -
SGT_Wolfe101st✭✭✭✭✭Ladies and gentlemen:
Why is it that now even many secondary and tertiary locations in ESO are going for millions of gold each week? And what does that say about the primary trade hub locations?
This is unsustainable. Something has got to give. Bid prices are insane, and there's no way sales are covering those bids. And when some guilds are now charging 15,000 to 20,000 gold a week in membership fees, you know those GMs are feeling the heat, too.
Maybe it's time for an auction house. Yeah, I know, those dreaded words: an auction house. It'll probably never happen, but short of that, what can Zeni do to put some sanity back into bid pricing and, on a larger scale, the ESO economy as a whole?
Not only this but it would be great in one of the updates if consoles could get a better idea of the value of items. Nothing worse than having to stop at every trader to ensure the price asked or paid is appropriate, and a search function while we are at it would also be very welcome.PS4 -NA ADWood Elf - StamNB - DPSNord - MagDK - TankHigh Elf - MagSorc - DPSDark Elf - Mag Warden- Healer1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »
The current guild trader kiosk system is the only thing that keeps monopolies in check.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o
Really, you haven't noticed the huge guilds buying fake dummy locations to resell to the highest bidder, or to block out competition
I don't think you read that right. He is laughing at something someone said on page 1. I had exactly the same reaction.
If someone could describe which antitrust practices are stopped by the ESO function, I'd love to hear it. I belong to a trade guild and if anything it's worse in the current system. Same issues, but I have to waste time traveling...
Edit: I should point out I am not a repricer.Edited by Wreuntzylla on September 20, 2017 7:12PM0 -
SquareSausage✭✭✭✭✭The trading guild I belong to lost our Mournhold trader with a bid of 7 mil.
Breakfast KingPS4 EU0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SquareSausage wrote: »The trading guild I belong to lost our Mournhold trader with a bid of 7 mil.
Not tagging just using the comment as an example.
Doesn’t this mean the system is working. There’s more guilds who want slots than what slot exist. There are a couple of different folks seemingly not all from the same guild based on their comments who either lost their slot or are members of multiple guilds who lost multiple slots.
That’s good cause this means other guilds have slots which confirms that either the new guild who won the slot either lost a prior and is forced to move around or gained a slot where last week they didn’t have one at all.
More comments communicate when this happens, it’s causes players to shuffle to either leave a guild and find another or work together to make sure they get one next time.
Aside from those who are saying they dislike traders all together, this confirms the system is still working.
As far as finding items....well sounds like that’s a result of people winning traders but not listing enough wanted items per some people’s desires but that shouldn’t be concluded that everyone has that experience.
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Ardan147✭✭✭✭It is not at all difficult to get and stay in a guild in a prime trading location (i.e., Rawl'kha or Mournhold). I made a list of the guilds that had traders in those locations, then looked to see which of them were recruiting, and expressed interest in joining. I actually ended up getting invites far more quickly than I had been expecting.
The guild trader system also constitutes a dynamic, self-adjusting gold sink that stabilizes the economy in a way that an auction house never could. If there is too much gold, that would otherwise cause inflation, then guild trader bids go up and so remove that excess gold from the economy. If there is too little gold then guilds won't have as much to bid on traders and so less gold will get removed.
Speaking of gold sinks, one of the things that caused my to quit Diablo III was the utterly punitive costs for repairing armor of the highest level, and that dying - which happened A LOT at the highest difficulty level - caused your equipped items (ALL of them, if I remember correctly, not just one) to take considerable damage. It became like a hamster running on a wheel and getting absolutely nowhere, because whatever gold I got from monsters just got eaten up by repair costs. It was no longer at all fun, so I quit. It also at one point had an auction house, that ultimately was a major failure that was later eliminated.
The item durability damage and repair system doesn't really function as much of a gold sink, as repair kits are very readily available and do the job for far less than paying a merchant to do it. If they were to nerf the drop rates on repair kits to drive up the price to be comparable to paying merchants then there would likely be a loud outcry, and rightfully so, as high repair costs tend to just make players feel like a hamster on a wheel.
Housing is also a major gold sink, but unlike having to spend gold on armor repairs, it's actually fun (and also completely voluntary, as opposed to repairing damaged armor which is mandatory if you want said armor to have any effect at all).This creature called a songbird. What a devious creation! This winged nuisance erodes sanity with its incessant chirping. What a brilliant form of torture!1