vMA and Master weapons are not used just because of the abilty modifiers.

Asardes · September 2017

Blockade is simply too easy to bypass since the area is narrow and clearly visible. Ice blockade can be useful for CC if your class lacks them. You can simply use Elegant and another 5p set an 1p Kens if you rely on heavy/light attacks them.

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

simeion wrote: »

Problem is you all are chasing 189 wd/sd. When a shock, poison, or flame enchant will give you more bang on the front bar and back bar a berserker enchant. You do have cooldowns to worry about. The whole idea on most pvp builds is built around setting up combos and burst. I would trade 189 wd/sd over a possibility of a 3k crit glyph hit. If you have been using a maelstrom weapons for the 189 sd/wd, i would have crafted a dead staff long ago.

Problem is you didn't read. If you don't use Blockade (in PvP you don't, most of the time), new vMA staff is as good as a non-set random crafted staff that you spent 30 seconds to make in the nearest crafting station. Guess what, you can also choose the style!

Olupajmibanan · September 2017

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Olupajmibanan · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Rather focus on the obligation to run PvE content as PvPer. It's gone and they are still not happy.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Rather focus on the obligation to run PvE content as PvPer. It's gone and they are still not happy.

I do both. In fact, PVPers who were forced to do it and is now useless is probably a lot worse for them. Some grinded a lot for that sharpened 2h

Masel · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Rather focus on the obligation to run PvE content as PvPer. It's gone and they are still not happy.

I do both. In fact, PVPers who were forced to do it and is now useless is probably a lot worse for them. Some grinded a lot for that sharpened 2h

The 2h is still useful. Why would it be any worse?

simeion · September 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

Problem is you all are chasing 189 wd/sd. When a shock, poison, or flame enchant will give you more bang on the front bar and back bar a berserker enchant. You do have cooldowns to worry about. The whole idea on most pvp builds is built around setting up combos and burst. I would trade 189 wd/sd over a possibility of a 3k crit glyph hit. If you have been using a maelstrom weapons for the 189 sd/wd, i would have crafted a dead staff long ago.

Problem is you didn't read. If you don't use Blockade (in PvP you don't, most of the time), new vMA staff is as good as a non-set random crafted staff that you spent 30 seconds to make in the nearest crafting station. Guess what, you can also choose the style!

I am not telling you to run blockade. What i am saying is the 189 damage is not worth fighting over compared to a damage glyph. I agree as of now it is no better than a crafted dead or set staff in PvP. In PvE specially infused staves this is going to be nice.

simeion · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Players make the choice of what they run in PvP and PvE. While yes there is Meta and ideal. I have seen plenty of weird successful builds in both. While i agree gap closers are not a normal PvE build it can be done.

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

1) If you think this is whining, you are delusional. It looks more like you are whining about people giving constructive feedback.
2) That's false. Master and Maelstrom weapons are not designed for PvE only. They are designed for both PvP and PvE, ask ZOS yourself if you don't believe it.
3) Because of the transmutation system, there's no point complaining about gear farming anymore.
4) vMA is great for PvPers because their skills from PvP translate very well into vMA environment.
5) People already grinded them for hundreds of hours.

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

simeion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

Problem is you all are chasing 189 wd/sd. When a shock, poison, or flame enchant will give you more bang on the front bar and back bar a berserker enchant. You do have cooldowns to worry about. The whole idea on most pvp builds is built around setting up combos and burst. I would trade 189 wd/sd over a possibility of a 3k crit glyph hit. If you have been using a maelstrom weapons for the 189 sd/wd, i would have crafted a dead staff long ago.

Problem is you didn't read. If you don't use Blockade (in PvP you don't, most of the time), new vMA staff is as good as a non-set random crafted staff that you spent 30 seconds to make in the nearest crafting station. Guess what, you can also choose the style!

I am not telling you to run blockade. What i am saying is the 189 damage is not worth fighting over compared to a damage glyph. I agree as of now it is no better than a crafted dead or set staff in PvP. In PvE specially infused staves this is going to be nice.

So you agree that there's no point in using vMA staves for PvP anymore.

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Rather focus on the obligation to run PvE content as PvPer. It's gone and they are still not happy.

I do both. In fact, PVPers who were forced to do it and is now useless is probably a lot worse for them. Some grinded a lot for that sharpened 2h

The 2h is still useful. Why would it be any worse?

It will be worse for stamblade.

Also the staves will be worse for all magicka PvP builds.

simeion · September 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

Problem is you all are chasing 189 wd/sd. When a shock, poison, or flame enchant will give you more bang on the front bar and back bar a berserker enchant. You do have cooldowns to worry about. The whole idea on most pvp builds is built around setting up combos and burst. I would trade 189 wd/sd over a possibility of a 3k crit glyph hit. If you have been using a maelstrom weapons for the 189 sd/wd, i would have crafted a dead staff long ago.

Problem is you didn't read. If you don't use Blockade (in PvP you don't, most of the time), new vMA staff is as good as a non-set random crafted staff that you spent 30 seconds to make in the nearest crafting station. Guess what, you can also choose the style!

I am not telling you to run blockade. What i am saying is the 189 damage is not worth fighting over compared to a damage glyph. I agree as of now it is no better than a crafted dead or set staff in PvP. In PvE specially infused staves this is going to be nice.

So you agree that there's no point in using vMA staves for PvP anymore.

I would, but it really comes down to play style, desired effect and what works for people. A dead or set staff will achieve your desired effect.

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

simeion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

simeion wrote: »

Problem is you all are chasing 189 wd/sd. When a shock, poison, or flame enchant will give you more bang on the front bar and back bar a berserker enchant. You do have cooldowns to worry about. The whole idea on most pvp builds is built around setting up combos and burst. I would trade 189 wd/sd over a possibility of a 3k crit glyph hit. If you have been using a maelstrom weapons for the 189 sd/wd, i would have crafted a dead staff long ago.

Problem is you didn't read. If you don't use Blockade (in PvP you don't, most of the time), new vMA staff is as good as a non-set random crafted staff that you spent 30 seconds to make in the nearest crafting station. Guess what, you can also choose the style!

I am not telling you to run blockade. What i am saying is the 189 damage is not worth fighting over compared to a damage glyph. I agree as of now it is no better than a crafted dead or set staff in PvP. In PvE specially infused staves this is going to be nice.

So you agree that there's no point in using vMA staves for PvP anymore.

I would, but it really comes down to play style, desired effect and what works for people. A dead or set staff will achieve your desired effect.

So yes, you agree that there's no point in using vMA staves in PvP anymore.

nCats · September 2017

If the devs are so intent on nerfing the weapons' damage bonus, at least change it to 129 instead of 189.

I have never had devotion to do VMA or even MA but I do think people should be able to keep their hard earned 2h, especially in pvp.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

PvPers were whining about the obligation to do PvE content just to get the needed gear.
Now when they don't have to, they are whining again.

Master/Maelstrom were designed for PvE and PvP use was unintended.

So unintended that the 2h buffs a gap closer...

Rather focus on the obligation to run PvE content as PvPer. It's gone and they are still not happy.

I do both. In fact, PVPers who were forced to do it and is now useless is probably a lot worse for them. Some grinded a lot for that sharpened 2h

The 2h is still useful. Why would it be any worse?

I meant worse as in they had to grind Pve and now it's all for nothing.

Could be a bitter pill to swallow.

NyassaV · September 2017

I seriously think they messed up on this. They were not even SUPER better in PvP anyways, I've killed people with vMA weapons on a basic set up before.

It's just a nice placeholder

Brrrofski · September 2017

Hollery wrote: »

I seriously think they messed up on this. They were not even SUPER better in PvP anyways, I've killed people with vMA weapons on a basic set up before.

It's just a nice placeholder

It was build diversity. You had to drop another 5 piece or monster set.

Why would you now. Just use a 2h in a set and get a wd enchant. Or buy the new dlc to get good versions. Coincidence? Doubt it.

They are useless in PvP now. VMA 2h is useless point blank.

Master bow got buffed though. Will be strong in PvP.

Feanor · September 2017

It's a buff if you didn't have vMA weapons before.

Vaoh · September 2017

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

Masel · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

Exactly man. But we should know better by now, people complain WITHOUT EVEN TESTING! test, provide results and then complain.

SodanTok · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

PVP. PVP exists. ZoS forgot that like you did. Not that it is wrong on your part. It is wrong on their part.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

Explain why you think it's a buff.

It's a nerf because I could use a spell damage enchant on my back bar, proc it, swap to front, maintain that damage and get 189 from my VMA staff.

The new way means I lose that 189 damage. Yes, I gain an enchant on my front bar, but on a cooldown and doesn't stack with back bar. It's a nerf.

Masel · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

Use shock/fire/poison, whatever enchant on front bar. different cooldown = buff

Dymence · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Master bow got buffed though. Will be strong in PvP.

It didn't.

Vaoh · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

Explain why you think it's a buff.

It's a nerf because I could use a spell damage enchant on my back bar, proc it, swap to front, maintain that damage and get 189 from my VMA staff.

The new way means I lose that 189 damage. Yes, I gain an enchant on my front bar, but on a cooldown and doesn't stack with back bar. It's a nerf.

Well most of these buffs will weaken your character because you simply build incorrectly. Sorry lol

As an example:
- A BiS Magicka Pet Sorc DPS setup tends to use 1x Kena, 5x Julianos (frontbar staff), 5x Necropotence, 1x vMA staff backbar
- The frontbar enchant is always Shock Damage since is provides higher DPS and concusses enemies often in HotR. You shouldn't be using the Beserk enchant in the first place if you are going for DPS

With this Clockwork City change, you won't get 189 Spell Damage on your backbar.... instead you'll get 348 Spell damage after 1 light attack which carries over onto your frontbar. If using Infused (BiS trait), it will provide even more Spell Damage and proc with a high uptime especially when needed.

For PvE there is no debate to be had whatsoever about this - ZOS buffed Master and Maelstrom weapons (especially Master weapons). I'm glad about this as well.

Vaoh · September 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

PVP. PVP exists. ZoS forgot that like you did. Not that it is wrong on your part. It is wrong on their part.

How does this nerf PvP? You lost 189 Spell Damage, but you gained an enchantment which can easily be used for Beserk (almost 2x as powerful as the base Maelstrom enchant) if you really care for that bonus Spell Damage.

This buff will only need something like 50%-60% uptime (easy) to be as strong as the current 189 Spell Damage. In PvP everything is about burst damage btw, so gaining higher Spell Damage though not with 100% uptime is actually better. Also you can apply a poison to your Maelstrom/Master staff and keep the special enchantment which is great for PvP.

To me is sounds like a buff that makes these weapons more versatile in PvP.
...maybe for the staff it could be viewed as a minor nerf depending on your build. Imo it's great though. For DW it's going to be amazing.

IAVITNI · September 2017

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

a possible fix would be to make the bonus stats still an enchantment but keep the change with the ability altering part being a set bonus. this way people that would rather use a normal enchant can but for pvp and other situations where you would rather the flat stat bonuses you can.

Just do this and there's literally no issue. For everyone complaining;

Those who say it's a buff since a weapon damage glyph gives more anyways have nothing to lose since your build is theoretically higher.

Those who say its a nerf since a weapon damage glyph gives less damage have nothing to lose since your build is theoretically higher.

Or maybe this makes too much sense?

Also, literally everyone here should click agree to @Oakmontowls_ESO comment...

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

It's not the point whether this is a buff or a nerf. The point is, if you don't use the modified ability there's no point using vMA and Master weapons anymore.

Example, you are a Magicka PvPer. You don't use Blockade.

Non-set random inferno staff:
- Take 30 seconds to craft.
- Offer the same amount of damage as a new vMA inferno staff.
- Can choose the style you want.
- Can choose the glyph you want.
- Can choose the poison you want.

New vMA inferno staff
- Took you hundreds of hours to farm it.
- Offer the same amount of damage as a non-set random inferno staff.
- Can't choose the style you want.
- Can choose the glyph you want.
- Can choose the poison you want.

New vMA inferno staff offers ZERO benefit compared to a non-set random crafted inferno staff in PvP because you don't use blockade.

If you are a Stamblade, no point using vMA weapons anymore, because apparently you don't use crit charge.

You will probably say "then don't use those weapons if you don't use those specific abilities". Yes exactly, a lot of people will stop using them because they don't use those specific abilities, you are going to see fewer interesting and unique vMA weapon builds, so it hurts build crafting a lot. Question is, why does it have to be that way? The popularity of vMA weapons are already going down, why should we make them even more irrelevant and hurt build diversity? What's the downside of keeping the extra stat (nerf it if you want) for the sake of build diversity?

hmsdragonfly · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

I don't understand the complaining..... this sounds like a buff to these weapons, especially if Infused....

PVP. PVP exists. ZoS forgot that like you did. Not that it is wrong on your part. It is wrong on their part.

How does this nerf PvP? You lost 189 Spell Damage, but you gained an enchantment which can easily be used for Beserk (almost 2x as powerful as the base Maelstrom enchant) if you really care for that bonus Spell Damage.

This buff will only need something like 50%-60% uptime (easy) to be as strong as the current 189 Spell Damage. In PvP everything is about burst damage btw, so gaining higher Spell Damage though not with 100% uptime is actually better. Also you can apply a poison to your Maelstrom/Master staff and keep the special enchantment which is great for PvP.

To me is sounds like a buff that makes these weapons more versatile in PvP.
...maybe for the staff it could be viewed as a minor nerf depending on your build. Imo it's great though. For DW it's going to be amazing.

Actually not, you are a Magicka PvPer. You don't use Blockade.

Non-set random inferno staff:
- Take 30 seconds to craft.
- Offer the same amount of damage as a new vMA inferno staff.
- Can choose the style you want.
- Can choose the glyph you want.
- Can choose the poison you want.

New vMA inferno staff
- Took you hundreds of hours to farm it.
- Offer the same amount of damage as a non-set random inferno staff.
- Can't choose the style you want.
- Can choose the glyph you want.
- Can choose the poison you want.

New vMA inferno staff offers ZERO benefit compared to a non-set random crafted inferno staff in PvP because you don't use blockade. Why use vMA weapon?