To all folks who say Mag Warden is terribad and awful

C0ndor · September 2017

A lot of warden are "easy" Kilil in pvp because nobody actually try to adapt a build to them but just copy paste the few builds that can find online and maybe are not good for other people gameplay. I did tons of testing and i came up with different builds for duels/solo pvp/Group of 2/5 people/ group of 6+ and based also on team composition. And all of them pretty effective

Integral1900 · September 2017

You pvp lot may love it and over in pve land we were so looking forward to it

We drooled at the sight of a haj mota ripping up the ground,

we swooned at the thought of an ice dps tearing through dungeons,

we longed for a monster healer throwing life magic around like a Hollywood cgi department on steroids.........

What we got..........

Well........ :'(

Three exploding thunder bugs, apparently because some whining git reckoned they couldn't see that huge beast coming!!!

An airborne turkey with all the urgency of 3 am takeaway...

Ice magic that while it may make a below par tank has all the teeth of a slightly sleepy hedgehog....

A rubber netch puppet with a neon rope that generates about as much juice as as a level 30 npc potion vendor...

A healer that can heal you... eventually... at some point in the future... ps you might want to slot that extra heal on your dps, you know just in case....

Tommy_The_Gun · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

That is exactly the problem of eso. In PvE Warden is underperforming... but in PvP it is just ridiculously broken and OP...
The stuff that warden can pull off in PvP is just insane.... And the best part is that ZOS almost always balances the game for PvP and not for PvE (because of PvP-ers complains ? Is there a reason to complain that a class is OP in PvE ? )

Anyway - we have a good example - Nightblade class. It was ok in PvE - but due to PvP-ers complains it is now only the shadow of its used to be.

Docmandu · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

...Step into Cyrodill

yes, anyone who thinks warden is weak seriously needs to step into PvP land, where they are OP.

As a PvP player, the last thing they need is a buff or a buff to their damage.

If that were actually true, Cyrodiil would be full of them.. because.. FOTM is what people play.

Not saying they're bad... but they're a weaker sorc basically.

Sorry just to correct you here it takes a lot of time to re roll a toon and a lot of people don't want to do that when they already have several at max level that they play. Contrast that to gear fotm which is much easier to obtain. So suffice to say I don't agree

Anyone with a max CP toon can level a new toon very fast... only thing that takes a bit of time is grabbing skyshards... suffice to say, I don't agree with you

Anyway only 2 ppl on this forum that have a serious issue with wardens... so I'd say that makes them a non-issue :-)

pieratsos · September 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

How does the class lacking in one aspect of the game means that the class is dead ?

Integral1900 · September 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

How does the class lacking in one aspect of the game means that the class is dead ?

Why make a class that only excels at a part of the game that started out as a small niche and remains that way?

Tryxus · September 2017

Let's see:

- PvP: Strong, but not OP (always lol when someone says that

)
- Healer: Slightly worse than Templar
- Tank: 2nd best in the game, behind DK
- Stam DPS: pretty good spot
- Mag DPS: uh-oh...

cpuScientist · September 2017

C0ndor wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

lol who complained about wardens being weak in pvp? 0, dont know why this thread was even created

Actually, it did make sense for this thread to be created because PvEers don't know this, and don't account for it in their arguments.

Not sure how you overlooked that apparent fact.

Just because you and a handful other mediocre players keep spamming the same wrong message doesn't make it "fact". Your way of debating makes me not only doubt your skills as a player but your level of education as well.

All I see is wrong info & vague strawmwns. None of you complainers has been able to objectively point out magWardens actual status quo somewhat legitimately by:

a) montioring all PvP scenarios individually (Duels, BGs, Cyro, IC; Zerg, Smallscale, Solo Roaming) and providing feedback on those compared to other classes
b) mathematically evaluating skill performance to equivalents of other classes while keeping the big picture in mind (stronger skills are offset by weaker skills, manual targeting more difficult than smart targeting)

I haven't met a good magWarden on PC EU ("good" means better than me in that case) and in my books PvP magWarden has:

1) less heals than a mTemplar
2) less and more predictable burst than a mSorc or mNB
3) less mobility than mSorc or mNB
3) less tankyness than a DK

It's a middle of the road class, it can a bit of everything, but doesn't excel in anything (except spamming birds which is completely not viable for any solo pvp scenario or BGs). It is not mobile at all, means every fight that is not won is lost (unlike playing sorc or NB). No escape.

I consider 90% of people in this game completely terrible at PvP, so I understand that if you (the typical forum bob) meet a really good player who mastered mWarden, it can look really strong. But so would any other class.

From what I've seen, mWarden is strongest inmidst of an allied zerg or against terrible players. Are you a terrible player?

I agree in almost evrething but warden are really strong also for small scale pvp for their utility/aoe burst. Got major defile aoe, you can wipe a small Group if you time your deep fissure with dawnbreaker and maybe an ally ulti. Permafrost in combo with an ally eye of flame is op. Not talking because i've encountered some of them i talk because i play one of them and i see the difference when i use other classes. Still
hard to play for duels or solo play if u encounter people Who actually can play their class and has a lot of experience. Stronger in no cp pvp, i use to melt a lot of people in bg. Ah was forgetting about the bear, is super bad exept for duels! Damn if Zeni fix it it would be super op in duels.

If your group got wiped by 1 warden with just fissure dawnbreaker.... Then just wow

cpuScientist · September 2017

I think those claiming magWarden OP have got to be newer.

They are good in groups for their tree. Honestly the whole entire class is only used because of that damned tree. People claim it's a good tank cause of the tree, claim they are good heals cause of the tree and claim they are op in PvP cause of the tree.

The tree is not gonna be used in trials so they are really only good heals/tank in 4 man's, and in a 4 man if rather the healer use resto ult as it gives a DPS bonus.

In PvP a magicka warden is basically a shotgun, has to load up that 3 second burst. Plenty of time to recover. I played mine extensively and they were crappier sorcs.

But seriously with stamDK, stamBlade, magSorc, heck even MagPlar and stamSorc... People are actually claiming magWarden to be OP over all of these listed a magWarden is the big shot... Just ****ing LOL.

Please bring back the button ZOS

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

It still sucks in PVE man.

Feanor · September 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

That is exactly the problem of eso. In PvE Warden is underperforming... but in PvP it is just ridiculously broken and OP...
The stuff that warden can pull off in PvP is just insane.... And the best part is that ZOS almost always balances the game for PvP and not for PvE (because of PvP-ers complains ? Is there a reason to complain that a class is OP in PvE ? )

Anyway - we have a good example - Nightblade class. It was ok in PvE - but due to PvP-ers complains it is now only the shadow of its used to be.

That's just not true. PvE complaints lead to nerfs just as much. The Sorc volatile familiar wasn't nerfed because of PvP for example. All the Morriwind changes to sustain were done with PvE on mind as well. StamNBs are pulling 60k+ single taget btw in PvE. Certainly not a shadow of itself.

FloppyTouch · September 2017

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

That is exactly the problem of eso. In PvE Warden is underperforming... but in PvP it is just ridiculously broken and OP...
The stuff that warden can pull off in PvP is just insane.... And the best part is that ZOS almost always balances the game for PvP and not for PvE (because of PvP-ers complains ? Is there a reason to complain that a class is OP in PvE ? )

Anyway - we have a good example - Nightblade class. It was ok in PvE - but due to PvP-ers complains it is now only the shadow of its used to be.

Yes there is a reason and nerfs happen to pvp bc of pve too. When a class is OP in pve no one plays anything else and nothing is wanted in trials or vet dungeons. Look at mdk when this game came out was the only class played for end game pve. Look at sorcs not to long ago whole trials dps was sorc. This makes playing any other class pointless. So yes balance in pve is very important as in pvp

Grabmoore · September 2017

I still don't want a warden in my PvE group, except for stam dps and maybe tank in a dungeon that requires no chains( can't think of one).

Warden needs help. He can do stuff, but so do others.

Also, wasn't the other thread OP created about hin getting vigor and caultrops? Nice expertise...

Betsararie · September 2017

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

...Step into Cyrodill

yes, anyone who thinks warden is weak seriously needs to step into PvP land, where they are OP.

As a PvP player, the last thing they need is a buff or a buff to their damage.

If that were actually true, Cyrodiil would be full of them.. because.. FOTM is what people play.

Not saying they're bad... but they're a weaker sorc basically.

Sorry just to correct you here it takes a lot of time to re roll a toon and a lot of people don't want to do that when they already have several at max level that they play. Contrast that to gear fotm which is much easier to obtain. So suffice to say I don't agree

Anyone with a max CP toon can level a new toon very fast... only thing that takes a bit of time is grabbing skyshards... suffice to say, I don't agree with you

Anyway only 2 ppl on this forum that have a serious issue with wardens... so I'd say that makes them a non-issue :-)

Again you're wrong

You tell me how long it takes to lvl undaunted?

Levelling every weapon skill line to 50 and all the skills to lvl IV takes an incredibly long time.

Mages Guild takes a very long time (even with the addon)

Mojmir · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

...Step into Cyrodill

yes, anyone who thinks warden is weak seriously needs to step into PvP land, where they are OP.

As a PvP player, the last thing they need is a buff or a buff to their damage.

If that were actually true, Cyrodiil would be full of them.. because.. FOTM is what people play.

Not saying they're bad... but they're a weaker sorc basically.

Sorry just to correct you here it takes a lot of time to re roll a toon and a lot of people don't want to do that when they already have several at max level that they play. Contrast that to gear fotm which is much easier to obtain. So suffice to say I don't agree

Anyone with a max CP toon can level a new toon very fast... only thing that takes a bit of time is grabbing skyshards... suffice to say, I don't agree with you

Anyway only 2 ppl on this forum that have a serious issue with wardens... so I'd say that makes them a non-issue :-)

Again you're wrong

You tell me how long it takes to lvl undaunted?

Levelling every weapon skill line to 50 and all the skills to lvl IV takes an incredibly long time.

Mages Guild takes a very long time (even with the addon)

Can all be done in a week, if your committed. And that Includes decent sleep. Undaunted not included

Betsararie · September 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

...Step into Cyrodill

yes, anyone who thinks warden is weak seriously needs to step into PvP land, where they are OP.

As a PvP player, the last thing they need is a buff or a buff to their damage.

If that were actually true, Cyrodiil would be full of them.. because.. FOTM is what people play.

Not saying they're bad... but they're a weaker sorc basically.

Sorry just to correct you here it takes a lot of time to re roll a toon and a lot of people don't want to do that when they already have several at max level that they play. Contrast that to gear fotm which is much easier to obtain. So suffice to say I don't agree

Anyone with a max CP toon can level a new toon very fast... only thing that takes a bit of time is grabbing skyshards... suffice to say, I don't agree with you

Anyway only 2 ppl on this forum that have a serious issue with wardens... so I'd say that makes them a non-issue :-)

Again you're wrong

You tell me how long it takes to lvl undaunted?

Levelling every weapon skill line to 50 and all the skills to lvl IV takes an incredibly long time.

Mages Guild takes a very long time (even with the addon)

Can all be done in a week, if your committed. And that Includes decent sleep. Undaunted not included

Ok, well you have to include it.

It contains one of the most useful passives in the game.

Even a week is a long time. In what world is that a short amount of time? And that's only if you're incredibly committed and only focus on levelling, which is not particularly fun.

Why would anyone raise that levelling a toon to a reasonably acceptable level (throughout all categories, skills, etc) does not take a long time? I likely won't agree with that person on much.

Asardes · September 2017

Warden is in the game for almost 4 months. Plenty of time to fully train at least one and learn to play it. Yet they are still few. They are probably less than 1/10 of campaign population at any given time. They are not stronger than other classes, otherwise there would have been a lot more of them.

Mojmir · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

vpy wrote: »

...Step into Cyrodill

yes, anyone who thinks warden is weak seriously needs to step into PvP land, where they are OP.

As a PvP player, the last thing they need is a buff or a buff to their damage.

If that were actually true, Cyrodiil would be full of them.. because.. FOTM is what people play.

Not saying they're bad... but they're a weaker sorc basically.

Sorry just to correct you here it takes a lot of time to re roll a toon and a lot of people don't want to do that when they already have several at max level that they play. Contrast that to gear fotm which is much easier to obtain. So suffice to say I don't agree

Anyone with a max CP toon can level a new toon very fast... only thing that takes a bit of time is grabbing skyshards... suffice to say, I don't agree with you

Anyway only 2 ppl on this forum that have a serious issue with wardens... so I'd say that makes them a non-issue :-)

Again you're wrong

You tell me how long it takes to lvl undaunted?

Levelling every weapon skill line to 50 and all the skills to lvl IV takes an incredibly long time.

Mages Guild takes a very long time (even with the addon)

Can all be done in a week, if your committed. And that Includes decent sleep. Undaunted not included

Ok, well you have to include it.

It contains one of the most useful passives in the game.

Even a week is a long time. In what world is that a short amount of time? And that's only if you're incredibly committed and only focus on levelling, which is not particularly fun.

Why would anyone raise that levelling a toon to a reasonably acceptable level (throughout all categories, skills, etc) does not take a long time? I likely won't agree with that person on much.

Only if you think about it, as for undaunted, meh I have 3 chars that don't even have the first passives unlocked and they all wear 7 PCs of one kind of armor. They're also doing fine in endgame content, seriously, I leveled warden up within the week morrowind came out, its not that hard when you know what to do. All training gear and a grinding partner, dolmena to lvl 10 than grind "places that shall not be named".

Skander · September 2017

Upgrade warden dps for pve= break the class for pvp.

So yeah..deal with it

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Skander wrote: »

Upgrade warden dps for pve= break the class for pvp.

So yeah..deal with it

I'd say, you deal with it.

PVP has had enough attention as a failed experiment.

C0ndor · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

C0ndor wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

lol who complained about wardens being weak in pvp? 0, dont know why this thread was even created

Actually, it did make sense for this thread to be created because PvEers don't know this, and don't account for it in their arguments.

Not sure how you overlooked that apparent fact.

Just because you and a handful other mediocre players keep spamming the same wrong message doesn't make it "fact". Your way of debating makes me not only doubt your skills as a player but your level of education as well.

All I see is wrong info & vague strawmwns. None of you complainers has been able to objectively point out magWardens actual status quo somewhat legitimately by:

a) montioring all PvP scenarios individually (Duels, BGs, Cyro, IC; Zerg, Smallscale, Solo Roaming) and providing feedback on those compared to other classes
b) mathematically evaluating skill performance to equivalents of other classes while keeping the big picture in mind (stronger skills are offset by weaker skills, manual targeting more difficult than smart targeting)

I haven't met a good magWarden on PC EU ("good" means better than me in that case) and in my books PvP magWarden has:

1) less heals than a mTemplar
2) less and more predictable burst than a mSorc or mNB
3) less mobility than mSorc or mNB
3) less tankyness than a DK

It's a middle of the road class, it can a bit of everything, but doesn't excel in anything (except spamming birds which is completely not viable for any solo pvp scenario or BGs). It is not mobile at all, means every fight that is not won is lost (unlike playing sorc or NB). No escape.

I consider 90% of people in this game completely terrible at PvP, so I understand that if you (the typical forum bob) meet a really good player who mastered mWarden, it can look really strong. But so would any other class.

From what I've seen, mWarden is strongest inmidst of an allied zerg or against terrible players. Are you a terrible player?

I agree in almost evrething but warden are really strong also for small scale pvp for their utility/aoe burst. Got major defile aoe, you can wipe a small Group if you time your deep fissure with dawnbreaker and maybe an ally ulti. Permafrost in combo with an ally eye of flame is op. Not talking because i've encountered some of them i talk because i play one of them and i see the difference when i use other classes. Still
hard to play for duels or solo play if u encounter people Who actually can play their class and has a lot of experience. Stronger in no cp pvp, i use to melt a lot of people in bg. Ah was forgetting about the bear, is super bad exept for duels! Damn if Zeni fix it it would be super op in duels.

If your group got wiped by 1 warden with just fissure dawnbreaker.... Then just wow

Plz read again

I'm the warden, not the group wiped and I said with another ally ulti.

C0ndor · September 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

I think those claiming magWarden OP have got to be newer.

They are good in groups for their tree. Honestly the whole entire class is only used because of that damned tree. People claim it's a good tank cause of the tree, claim they are good heals cause of the tree and claim they are op in PvP cause of the tree.

The tree is not gonna be used in trials so they are really only good heals/tank in 4 man's, and in a 4 man if rather the healer use resto ult as it gives a DPS bonus.

In PvP a magicka warden is basically a shotgun, has to load up that 3 second burst. Plenty of time to recover. I played mine extensively and they were crappier sorcs.

But seriously with stamDK, stamBlade, magSorc, heck even MagPlar and stamSorc... People are actually claiming magWarden to be OP over all of these listed a magWarden is the big shot... Just ****ing LOL.

Please bring back the button ZOS

Is not more op than others, but the shotgun in small scale can be used very well against bows and arrows

Warden needs a buff if u just look the solo play or the duels

Betsararie · September 2017

Skander wrote: »

Upgrade warden dps for pve= break the class for pvp.

So yeah..deal with it

But breaking the class for PvP is completely unacceptable.

Nobody is going to "deal with that".

If you already have multiple classes filling DPS roles in PvE content, why do you, so badly need more? There's no variety in the content.

If you roll a dps char of each current well-performing class, you will have a great deal of different dps toons.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Skander wrote: »

Upgrade warden dps for pve= break the class for pvp.

So yeah..deal with it

Increase warden pve dps =/= breaking the class for PvE. You're just worried it will. But maybe you're right, I mean we all know sorcs are strong in PvP and weak in Pv-

Oh.

Serjustin19 · September 2017

:'( I was going delete my Magicka Warden Yesterday. Sting Like A Butterfly. I just don't like the class, no offense. Sure I'm tanky at level 26. Even while not wearing, waist, shoulders and chest; to boot!

But then a thought came to mind. "Am I that ****. It’s the only character that I have with that class." So now he just going to sit unused, probably forever. Or I could try get used to my character by playing more of it. I honestly just don't like the class.

Waffennacht · September 2017

It plays SO DIFFERENTLY than any other class.

The reason you see so few is because of how most players haven't taken the time to learn it's style

The bear - in duels mainly - can be devastating

Trees is huge obv

It can reliably run SnB over Resto (think about the set access this provides)

I'd run my Warden over my Sorc any day.

Edit: PvP, in PvE you can literally feel the less dps

Betsararie · September 2017

I actually have great respect for Wardens in PvP, because even though I haven't rolled it, it doesn't look like all that easy of a class to play.

This is evidenced by the discrepancy of effectiveness between good and bad wardens. The bad ones are terribad, but the good ones are very potent- a real threat.

The only real skill-less element to the warden is the tree ulti, which is stupid. The cost is waayy too low, 100 ultimate at a minimum would be appropriate.

But if you add in the tree with their burst, healing and regen that is why people are saying they are borderline OP. Then they can take advantage of things like necro and SnB like the above poster mentioned.

pieratsos · September 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

How does being good in cyro help pve dps?

How does the class lacking in one aspect of the game means that the class is dead ?

Why make a class that only excels at a part of the game that started out as a small niche and remains that way?

I didnt say it shouldnt be buffed for PVE DPS. I just said the class isnt dead. They are not just good at a part of the game. They are good at a huge part of the game. They are good tanks, healers and PVP. The only thing they are not good at is PVE DPS. And when i say bad, it doesnt mean they cant complete the content. They are just not competitive for leaderboards.

cpuScientist · September 2017

C0ndor wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

I think those claiming magWarden OP have got to be newer.

They are good in groups for their tree. Honestly the whole entire class is only used because of that damned tree. People claim it's a good tank cause of the tree, claim they are good heals cause of the tree and claim they are op in PvP cause of the tree.

The tree is not gonna be used in trials so they are really only good heals/tank in 4 man's, and in a 4 man if rather the healer use resto ult as it gives a DPS bonus.

In PvP a magicka warden is basically a shotgun, has to load up that 3 second burst. Plenty of time to recover. I played mine extensively and they were crappier sorcs.

But seriously with stamDK, stamBlade, magSorc, heck even MagPlar and stamSorc... People are actually claiming magWarden to be OP over all of these listed a magWarden is the big shot... Just ****ing LOL.

Please bring back the button ZOS

Is not more op than others, but the shotgun in small scale can be used very well against bows and arrows
Warden needs a buff if u just look the solo play or the duels

So it's good against bow users? Medium users? And timed ulti bombs with a friend can do the same with any 2 classes. Magblades have been doing it by themselves for ages no help needed.

They are fine, I've used mine to great success. But while they have a shotgun. Other classes have bazooka's and ak47's.

cpuScientist · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

It plays SO DIFFERENTLY than any other class.

The reason you see so few is because of how most players haven't taken the time to learn it's style

The bear - in duels mainly - can be devastating

Trees is huge obv

It can reliably run SnB over Resto (think about the set access this provides)

I'd run my Warden over my Sorc any day.

Edit: PvP, in PvE you can literally feel the less dps

MagDK, MagPlar, Melee Magblade all run without resto easily. Even duels the bear is crap very easy to kill and has to chase you around alot, as it is very slow, and that's duels the bear is only remotely useful in inflating parses and duels aka the parts of the game that mean absolutely nothing. Tree is all they have and the resto staff ulti is better gives an offensive and defensive buff in addition to the heal. Tree is just good for not dying at that moment, and they need it as they have no escape.

Again good class but they are just easier to use less powerful Sorcs