Ban 'multi-role' characters from group finder

disintegr8 · September 2017

None of the responses really surprise me, in fact I was expecting a lot more "get out of your ivory tower", or "get off your soap box" threads than I have read. My post clearly stated that I understand people can fulfill multiple roles, especially in a normal dungeon and I don't drink milk as it does not contain any alcohol.

None of the naysayers have answered my latter question of how new players are supposed to learn their role properly if we do it for them in normal dungeons?

I can solo normal dungeons on some of my characters, my friend and I (tank and heals) two man them faster than it takes with some pugs - but this is not the point of the discussion. I don't run dungeons for fun any more, only when leveling up newer characters, or helping friends level up, in the Undaunted skill line.

Does it really help a tank learn his role for later content of he comes in with 15k health, or a DPS comes in with 10k health and the healer uses most of his resources keeping one or two people alive?

Does it help newer players learn mechanics if a DPS doing 30k damage comes in and blows everything away before mechanics have any part to play?

Does it help a healer learn his role if nobody needs healing, or everything dies before anyone needs healing?

Unless these players know otherwise, they move on to vet dungeons or trials, thinking they know how to run group content and fall flat on their faces. There are lots of threads about normal dungeons not preparing players for vet dungeons or group content and some of you are only making that situation worse.

But then again, the naysayers would probably be the ones starting a vote to kick for a level 25 entering nWGT or a CP70 who gets pugged into vWGT. Easier to kick them from harder content than help them learn their roles in easier content.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

None of the responses really surprise me, in fact I was expecting a lot more "get out of your ivory tower", or "get off your soap box" threads than I have read. My post clearly stated that I understand people can fulfill multiple roles, especially in a normal dungeon and I don't drink milk as it does not contain any alcohol.

None of the naysayers have answered my latter question of how new players are supposed to learn their role properly if we do it for them in normal dungeons?

I can solo normal dungeons on some of my characters, my friend and I (tank and heals) two man them faster than it takes with some pugs - but this is not the point of the discussion. I don't run dungeons for fun any more, only when leveling up newer characters, or helping friends level up, in the Undaunted skill line.

Does it really help a tank learn his role for later content of he comes in with 15k health, or a DPS comes in with 10k health and the healer uses most of his resources keeping one or two people alive?

Does it help newer players learn mechanics if a DPS doing 30k damage comes in and blows everything away before mechanics have any part to play?

Does it help a healer learn his role if nobody needs healing, or everything dies before anyone needs healing?

Unless these players know otherwise, they move on to vet dungeons or trials, thinking they know how to run group content and fall flat on their faces. There are lots of threads about normal dungeons not preparing players for vet dungeons or group content and some of you are only making that situation worse.

But then again, the naysayers would probably be the ones starting a vote to kick for a level 25 entering nWGT or a CP70 who gets pugged into vWGT. Easier to kick them from harder content than help them learn their roles in easier content.

You proposed a solution to an entirely different problem, one which would not be solved by your solution. Like, at all. There is no teaching anyone by banning multiroles.

On the rest of the subject I agree with you. I think people should go out of their way to help newbs. Today's new can be tomorrow's Alcast or Deltia. Everyone starts somewhere and no one succeeds alone.

That said, I'm not convinced the best place to learn the game is in pugs, or I'd say effective dps is spamming bow light attacks! *Sarcasm*

And as for the last bit, I don't queue for random vets ever, and I would never kick someone who wasn't absolutely toxic as a human being. I never mind helping/carrying newbs. I do mind anyone, even someone pulling 50k st dps, who starts being unreasonable past any point of acceptance. We're talking calling people "runts" or "baguettes" kind of toxic.

Magdalina · September 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

Does it really help a tank learn his role for later content of he comes in with 15k health, or a DPS comes in with 10k health and the healer uses most of his resources keeping one or two people alive?

Does it help newer players learn mechanics if a DPS doing 30k damage comes in and blows everything away before mechanics have any part to play?

Does it help a healer learn his role if nobody needs healing, or everything dies before anyone needs healing?

.

I'm confused. The original issue you brought up was multi-role players not doing their roles. Now we're talking about people either underperforming or overperforming in normal dungeons(?) which causes issues for new players learning. I mean uh...yes, I guess?.. Do you mean that cp players should be banned from normal dungeons or something so newbies can learn better? ..What's that got to do with the original topic again?

Beardimus · September 2017

People picking multi roles is not the problem, as many can.

People not doing the thing they said they would do, is the problem

But lastly. Healers don't just heal, some DPS is expected...

max_only · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Erm... You do realize that tanking normal dungeon is ez-pz for high-levels, right?

I don't want to waste my time in queue so I queue as tank for random normal. Hardened Ward + Inner Fire for the win.

For god's sake. I slot Crushing Shock when bosses require interruption (2nd boss in CoS, for example), I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle, spamming Harness Magicka.

High-lvl DDs queueing as tank with Inner Fire are not a problem. High-lvl DDs queueing as healers with Resto Staff aren't a problem.

The problem is - I, with my 17k hp, will in 80% tank better than actual tank in normals, because 'I should interrupt? What? How you do that?'.

The problem is that with Surge, Hardened Ward and Inner Fire slotted, I still in most cases do 60%+ of group damage. Because honest "DDs" think that Bow is a perfect damage weapon.

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

I read all this and it seemed like you typed "sorc is op" over and over again...

Dantaria · September 2017

max_only wrote: »

I read all this and it seemed like you typed "sorc is op" over and over again...

LOL. Everyone sees what they want to see.

FYI, I can do the same on my magDK. It's just not "Hardened Ward + Boundless Storm + Inner Fire", it's "Harness Magicka + Volatile Armor + Inner Fire". I also, in the beginning of my ESO career, was carried through ICP by magplar who essentially did the same. Harness Magicka + Inner Fire + If memory serves, he BoLed.

Now, I myself did not tank normals on stam chars, but I do know people who easily and succenfully did. AFAIK, it's the combination of 51 in Ironclad + Deadly Cloak + Boneshield.

Like, please. We're talking about normals. Normals. Normals can be tanked by any high-lvl char with taunt and some understanding of the game.

Masel · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Erm... You do realize that tanking normal dungeon is ez-pz for high-levels, right?

I don't want to waste my time in queue so I queue as tank for random normal. Hardened Ward + Inner Fire for the win.

For god's sake. I slot Crushing Shock when bosses require interruption (2nd boss in CoS, for example), I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle, spamming Harness Magicka.

High-lvl DDs queueing as tank with Inner Fire are not a problem. High-lvl DDs queueing as healers with Resto Staff aren't a problem.

The problem is - I, with my 17k hp, will in 80% tank better than actual tank in normals, because 'I should interrupt? What? How you do that?'.

The problem is that with Surge, Hardened Ward and Inner Fire slotted, I still in most cases do 60%+ of group damage. Because honest "DDs" think that Bow is a perfect damage weapon.

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

Bow is a perfectly fine damage weapon. You just have to do it right.

Mureel · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Erm... You do realize that tanking normal dungeon is ez-pz for high-levels, right?

I don't want to waste my time in queue so I queue as tank for random normal. Hardened Ward + Inner Fire for the win.

For god's sake. I slot Crushing Shock when bosses require interruption (2nd boss in CoS, for example), I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle, spamming Harness Magicka.

High-lvl DDs queueing as tank with Inner Fire are not a problem. High-lvl DDs queueing as healers with Resto Staff aren't a problem.

The problem is - I, with my 17k hp, will in 80% tank better than actual tank in normals, because 'I should interrupt? What? How you do that?'.

The problem is that with Surge, Hardened Ward and Inner Fire slotted, I still in most cases do 60%+ of group damage. Because honest "DDs" think that Bow is a perfect damage weapon.

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

Nerf Sporks.

Druid40 · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle,

I tickle the taints of all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle* I have fixed that for you. You are welcome.