Ban 'multi-role' characters from group finder

disintegr8

I would like to have ESO stop players from entering group finder if they have more than one role flagged on their character.

While I know in normal dungeons you can be a DPS who heals, a healer who can do DPS or a tank that can also deal decent damage, etc., but I entered a dungeon last night as a healer and got a whisper telling me to fight the NPC's. This was by a sorcerer 'tank' who felt it more important to whisper me help than fight a mob themselves.

So I stop to check the group and we have 3 templars and the sorc - a healer (me), a tank/dps (the sorc), a healer/dps and a straight dps. Now in a normal dungeon on my healers, I will try and stick to healing unless it is obvious the group doesn't need heals, or it looks like we are lacking DPS. In this case, the DPS was managing fine and I was sticking to my healing role, leaving the others to do what I figured they were there for. This is where lower level players get to learn the dungeons, their roles and practice their skills.

Now I sit and wait for the howls of protest and about how the group finder is broken or the queues are too long to queue as a DPS. If there aren't enough healers or tanks around, role one yourself instead of changing your role to get around it. How will newer players ever learn to do their role properly in vet dungeons or trials if every one else is also doing part of their job in normal dungeons?

rhapsodious

People being jerks doesn't mean there's a problem with the system. Instead of banning people from queueing for multiple roles - because for most vets, even I can heal on my magicka NB by slapping on a resto staff and swapping out a couple of skills - kick the people who arent even trying performing their role (like a bow/bow tank who insists on plinking adds instead of taunting them), or educate those who are trying but need practice.

Dantaria

Erm... You do realize that tanking normal dungeon is ez-pz for high-levels, right?

I don't want to waste my time in queue so I queue as tank for random normal. Hardened Ward + Inner Fire for the win.

For god's sake. I slot Crushing Shock when bosses require interruption (2nd boss in CoS, for example), I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle, spamming Harness Magicka.

High-lvl DDs queueing as tank with Inner Fire are not a problem. High-lvl DDs queueing as healers with Resto Staff aren't a problem.

The problem is - I, with my 17k hp, will in 80% tank better than actual tank in normals, because 'I should interrupt? What? How you do that?'.

The problem is that with Surge, Hardened Ward and Inner Fire slotted, I still in most cases do 60%+ of group damage. Because honest "DDs" think that Bow is a perfect damage weapon.

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

AlienatedGoat

Umm...lately there's been a bug that flags a group as role-incompatible, even when you have one tank, one healer, and two DPS. This has been happening a lot since the last patch (Another related bug: getting a message that says members of the group don't have the required DLC, when you're queuing for a random).

The only way I've been able to get around it is by having my groupmates tag as all 3. I usually try to run a full group of 4 to avoid the random xp bug.

Just sayin'. While I also get quite annoyed by the tanks that don't tank or the healers that don't heal, there are legitimate reasons for queuing as all 3. If you join my random normal group from queue and see us as all 3 roles, its because the myself and my two pals are more than capable of running without a tank or healer, and we just need a fourth person for the random.

AlienatedGoat

Dantaria wrote: »

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

Agreed. Normal dungeons are more of a chore for me with a tank than without. Running 3 DDs and heals or 4 DDs with self heals is best for me. Normal trash burns in seconds and normal bosses are easily done without a tank. Tank won't do damage and holding separate aggro isn't important when you have at least 3 high level DDs that can melt faces. Just look at my avatar.

letsdothedungeonslow

Group finder is so bad it should just be replaced with a lobby system where people can specify private or public, and what the requirements are.

If people lie about meeting the requirements, they can be booted

zaria

Dantaria wrote: »

Erm... You do realize that tanking normal dungeon is ez-pz for high-levels, right?

I don't want to waste my time in queue so I queue as tank for random normal. Hardened Ward + Inner Fire for the win.

For god's sake. I slot Crushing Shock when bosses require interruption (2nd boss in CoS, for example), I taint all 4 Shades of Lord Warden and just dance in the middle, spamming Harness Magicka.

High-lvl DDs queueing as tank with Inner Fire are not a problem. High-lvl DDs queueing as healers with Resto Staff aren't a problem.

The problem is - I, with my 17k hp, will in 80% tank better than actual tank in normals, because 'I should interrupt? What? How you do that?'.

The problem is that with Surge, Hardened Ward and Inner Fire slotted, I still in most cases do 60%+ of group damage. Because honest "DDs" think that Bow is a perfect damage weapon.

Actually, if you are a healer, for normal do hope that your tank will be high-lvl "DD with Inner Fire". Because they will hold boss and you actually will finish the dungeon. In rational time.

If it works it works, but yes bring food, 12K hp fake tank in nWGT was not fun, however it actually worked well once he found some food or got it from the level 40, problem was one shots, require lots of healing no issue it just reduce my dps.
Tank is an role as in you control and hold boss, healer as in heal party and give buffs / debuffs, resources is an bonus in normal and often not needed.
Know high dps healing is an thing same with high dps tanks.

Still if you can tank or heal the dungeon why queue as DD at all?
You take up the slot of somebody else.
Then you queue, you get an tank slot and jump straight up in front of queue for an random normal.
Some refuse / is afk / bugs and you move in front of queue. Now if its also another tank or tank/DD in front of queue one of you get tank the other DD, you would get the next tank slot a second later while some poor DD has to wait for the next tank.

Nemesis7884

so after one messeage you got you want to change something potentially negatively for everyone else? I am in fact changing my pure tanks and making them more damage oriented because they were just way more tanky than they had to be which just slows down the group...if eso offers the variabilty to adapt why not make use of it? IMO the trinity is an outdated dumb system anyway but people seem to clinge to it as their live depended on it

Blairy087

Tank, Healer, Normal Dungeons?? Maybe one or 2 of them. Theres no fix for people who dont care or just wanna be (expletive expletives). Just leave and find another group or make a tank and tank yourself. If ur not new player and your worried about tank or healers in normal somethings wrong. 4 dps and Burn!!!

Oakmontowls_ESO

I always que as dps and heal because I can do either with some skill and gear swaps. And most of the time I end up doing most of the dps in the group even as the healer. The problem with group finder is that there is much more than 2 dps for every healer and tank which isn't something Zos can fix. What needs to happen is more information in game about what is expected of each of the roles and important skills and equipment that each role uses. If there was some sort of tutorial explaining all of this I think we would eliminate the people doing this because they do not know better.

thamightyboro

Your complainig be ause you got asked to actually contribute to dps as a healer, you should be anyway.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

disintegr8 wrote: »

I would like to have ESO stop players from entering group finder if they have more than one role flagged on their character.

While I know in normal dungeons you can be a DPS who heals, a healer who can do DPS or a tank that can also deal decent damage, etc., but I entered a dungeon last night as a healer and got a whisper telling me to fight the NPC's. This was by a sorcerer 'tank' who felt it more important to whisper me help than fight a mob themselves.

So I stop to check the group and we have 3 templars and the sorc - a healer (me), a tank/dps (the sorc), a healer/dps and a straight dps. Now in a normal dungeon on my healers, I will try and stick to healing unless it is obvious the group doesn't need heals, or it looks like we are lacking DPS. In this case, the DPS was managing fine and I was sticking to my healing role, leaving the others to do what I figured they were there for. This is where lower level players get to learn the dungeons, their roles and practice their skills.

Now I sit and wait for the howls of protest and about how the group finder is broken or the queues are too long to queue as a DPS. If there aren't enough healers or tanks around, role one yourself instead of changing your role to get around it. How will newer players ever learn to do their role properly in vet dungeons or trials if every one else is also doing part of their job in normal dungeons?

I solo normals in 5-10 mins as a nightblade. Tank, self heal and do 40-60k on almost all normal boss single target. I q up as tank, dps and healer and just run through giving who ever q's with me a free pass. Literally they just follow and light attack some times haha...

However if you are a bad player... dont q as multiple roles I agree.

Edit: of course some dungeons are longer in size and some like ICP I dont q with people so I can cloak past the middle part with all the ads etc though. Just get the levers with a mate lol.

SydneyGrey

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

I solo normals in 5-10 mins as a nightblade. Tank, self heal and do 40-60k on almost all normal boss single target. I q up as tank, dps and healer and just run through giving who ever q's with me a free pass. Literally they just follow and light attack some times haha...

Might want to ask at the beginning if everyone else in the group is ok with that, though. For some people, it's their first run-through and they want to do the quest and get that skill point. I've been in PUGs before where people ran ahead so fast that I wasn't able to do the quests in them. That really sucks.

Zypheran

I think roles are less significant in normal dungeons. If its normal, non-dlc and a '1' dungeon, then it positively doesnt matter.
In the OP's situation I think the issue was encountering one of those people who feels compelled to tell others what they should or shouldn't do.... you all know the type!

Magdalina

Erm...it takes 3 seconds to swap from one role to another if you use addon. A lot of players are more than capable of doing several roles. I usually queue as healer/dps and if I heal I wear SPC with Worm and use Drain, Lightning WoE, Combat Prayer and other good stuff. If I dps...my dps isn't actually very good right now but I'll definitely pull over 20k.

There is an issue with people queuing for roles they cannot do, but it's not really related to selecting multiple roles whatsoever. I'd definitely take someone with all 3 roles selected who knows how to do them than one of those pure dds with bow/bow and less than 3k dps(I'm genuinely curious how they manage that. I mean, doesn't even light attack spam give more than that?). Also in my experience the "fast queue" people just tend to select one role lately - tank/healer, then not bother slotting a taunt or heals or anything and expect to be carried.

Imo we need role checks/obligatory tutorials before doing (vet) dungeons but that's just elitist me.

iiYuki

It's difficult, the beauty of ESO compared with other big MMOs is that you can play any class and any role no matter what you pick, sure you get to a disadvantage with passives but really if you want perfect setups it's best to make private premade groups via a player guild or chat.

Aeladiir

disintegr8 wrote: »

I would like to have ESO stop players from entering group finder if they have more than one role flagged on their character.

While I know in normal dungeons you can be a DPS who heals, a healer who can do DPS or a tank that can also deal decent damage, etc., but I entered a dungeon last night as a healer and got a whisper telling me to fight the NPC's. This was by a sorcerer 'tank' who felt it more important to whisper me help than fight a mob themselves.

So I stop to check the group and we have 3 templars and the sorc - a healer (me), a tank/dps (the sorc), a healer/dps and a straight dps. Now in a normal dungeon on my healers, I will try and stick to healing unless it is obvious the group doesn't need heals, or it looks like we are lacking DPS. In this case, the DPS was managing fine and I was sticking to my healing role, leaving the others to do what I figured they were there for. This is where lower level players get to learn the dungeons, their roles and practice their skills.

Now I sit and wait for the howls of protest and about how the group finder is broken or the queues are too long to queue as a DPS. If there aren't enough healers or tanks around, role one yourself instead of changing your role to get around it. How will newer players ever learn to do their role properly in vet dungeons or trials if every one else is also doing part of their job in normal dungeons?

Oh, look. Another "I got in que with a jerk and now I am sad" post. Where do you live, pal? I'll buy some milk and bring it to you so that you can calm down.

Sunah

Even if they got rid of the multiple role selection, you are still going to have dps queue as tanks. EVERY game with a queue system is like this. This is why I do not do "harder" pledges without some friends because im going to sit in queue and when I finally get in im going to waste 30+ mins failing to stupid crap because the sorc wants to pretend to be a tank, no taunt or shield.

But the easier content you just need to get use to it. Most higher levels can easily manage like a veteran vaults of madness. 3dps and me healing, I end up throwing up inner fire and just tank the bosses.

madchuska83

You mean a Nightblade with 17k health can't be a dps and tank? If someone is double queued I usually wait until my timer ticks down to queue again. If they're doing good after that 14 minutes I'll stick around.

michalmack

I think the best way to solve the issue of people slotting as a tank or healer but going in as a dps is to make the choice semi permanent (only changeable once a month/ 150k gold if sooner). This would only affect vet dungeons. For normal i think group finder shouldn't even look at roles, just take 4 players at random and put them in the dungeon. If u get a tank and a healer... bonus.

FakeFox

And how is banning people from queing for multiple roles going to help? It will only make it worse. I currently mostly que for tank + DD, tank because it's the fastest and DD because it's my actual role. If I wouldn't be allowed to do that I would simply que for tank.

Also, if I que with my actual tank chances are high that I get a group that does like 10k DPS. I don't see why I should do that for dungeons I could run solo and the only reason why I don't being EXP, more loot and some mechanics that you can't do alone.

EvilCroc

In veteran dungeons, maybe. Normal is OK.

Tan9oSuccka

letsdothedungeonslow wrote: »

Group finder is so bad it should just be replaced with a lobby system where people can specify private or public, and what the requirements are.

If people lie about meeting the requirements, they can be booted

This is a good idea. Inspect player would be nice too. Boot the 18k health "tank" right from the start.

DocFrost72

Considering my sorc is flagged as all three, I'm going to throw my hat in.

When he's a tank, he has 30k health, 35k magicka, and 16k stam. He is in 7 heavy with iceheart and 16k hardened wards. In that setup he has off tanked and main tanked nMoL.

When he's a healer, he has 20k health and 40k+ magicka, resto and lightning staff, SPC and seducer. In that setup he has healed through vDSA.

When he's a dps, he has 18k health and 43k+ magicka, dual destro, pulls 20k+ self buffed, and has completed vAA.

And the person queuing for your group as a tank is a DK altmer with greatsword and 22k health who hasn't learned how to tank in ESO yet. But he is only flagged one role.

Hawco10

I usually roll heals. And if I end up with a group that does not need a dedicated healer, I throw jabs on and join in the fun. Quite obvious after the first boss usually. That way, we blow through the dungeon and move on.

djdc1234

disintegr8 wrote: »

I would like to have ESO stop players from entering group finder if they have more than one role flagged on their character.

While I know in normal dungeons you can be a DPS who heals, a healer who can do DPS or a tank that can also deal decent damage, etc., but I entered a dungeon last night as a healer and got a whisper telling me to fight the NPC's. This was by a sorcerer 'tank' who felt it more important to whisper me help than fight a mob themselves.

So I stop to check the group and we have 3 templars and the sorc - a healer (me), a tank/dps (the sorc), a healer/dps and a straight dps. Now in a normal dungeon on my healers, I will try and stick to healing unless it is obvious the group doesn't need heals, or it looks like we are lacking DPS. In this case, the DPS was managing fine and I was sticking to my healing role, leaving the others to do what I figured they were there for. This is where lower level players get to learn the dungeons, their roles and practice their skills.

Now I sit and wait for the howls of protest and about how the group finder is broken or the queues are too long to queue as a DPS. If there aren't enough healers or tanks around, role one yourself instead of changing your role to get around it. How will newer players ever learn to do their role properly in vet dungeons or trials if every one else is also doing part of their job in normal dungeons?

yes plz ... it ruins groups . or get rid of the Q timer

ParaNostram

Nah brah

djdc1234

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

I always que as dps and heal because I can do either with some skill and gear swaps. And most of the time I end up doing most of the dps in the group even as the healer. The problem with group finder is that there is much more than 2 dps for every healer and tank which isn't something Zos can fix. What needs to happen is more information in game about what is expected of each of the roles and important skills and equipment that each role uses. If there was some sort of tutorial explaining all of this I think we would eliminate the people doing this because they do not know better.

and you are the person who ruins groups. ever wonder why so many people leave you or you get kicked... thats why

Tan9oSuccka

djdc1234 wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

I always que as dps and heal because I can do either with some skill and gear swaps. And most of the time I end up doing most of the dps in the group even as the healer. The problem with group finder is that there is much more than 2 dps for every healer and tank which isn't something Zos can fix. What needs to happen is more information in game about what is expected of each of the roles and important skills and equipment that each role uses. If there was some sort of tutorial explaining all of this I think we would eliminate the people doing this because they do not know better.

and you are the person who ruins groups. ever wonder why so many people leave you or you get kicked... thats why

A vast majority that multiqueues, throws on chokethorn and spams mutagen.

I'm a healer!! Derp derp derp

idk

rhapsodious wrote: »

People being jerks doesn't mean there's a problem with the system. Instead of banning people from queueing for multiple roles - because for most vets, even I can heal on my magicka NB by slapping on a resto staff and swapping out a couple of skills - kick the people who arent even trying performing their role (like a bow/bow tank who insists on plinking adds instead of taunting them), or educate those who are trying but need practice.

Exactly, I use GF to do a random for the heck of it. I really do not need hindrances like what OP suggests.

It would hurt GF further because players like myself that can truly play multiple roles on most characters will say screw it and ignore GF making the wait for queues to pop longer. To how the OPs suggestion is so wrong, I know people who can tank, heal and DPS on the same character in vet trials. If they can do that there is zero reason to restrict them in GF.

And yes, I have gotten pops where I was the healer and a dps was the tank using the undaunted taunt. On one occasion the dps tank did die, because of not avoiding the damage that should kill him. We still cleared and had no wipes. Not much different dps that stand in red.

central_scrutinizer

I am fully prepared to fulfill any role I select in any dungeon, and can swap on the fly with a few keystrokes, with multiple gear/skill profiles per role.

If you can not fathom how my multi role toons could fulfill the roles that they select, you do not know enough about the game to be worrying about what anybody else is doing.