Vampire and Werewolf need to be rebalanced

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

When did poison mist get changed to magic damage?! That was the one GD stamina morph!

max_only · August 2017

Just 8% passive stam regen out of transformation would at least make it relevant instead of completely without utility.

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2017

max_only wrote: »

Just 8% passive stam regen out of transformation would at least make it relevant instead of completely without utility.

Only if, like the vampire, you are prone to werewolf weaknesses at all times too, such as poison damage. Otherwise there is absolutely no downside. Vampires have slower health regen, look ugly, take more damage from fire and fighter's guild abilities for that extra 10%.

IlCanis_LupuslI · August 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I would like to see werewolfs healing ability scaling out of stamina, but still cost magicka. Might need to change the "Base-value" compared to what it is today to make it balanced but changing which resource the healing scales from would be a nice change.

Werewolf used to be one of those builds that actually needed high HP-regen to stay alive. But due to ppl QQ about "immortal tanks" that stacked HP regen 8and couldn´t kill anything), HP regen got nerfed (and WW got an indirect nerf because of that).

Biggest issue as a Werewolf in mo opinion is to stay alive. You´ll almost always be doing decent amount of damage as a Werewolf, but unless you´re in a group or facing 1-2 bad players you´ll get killed 11/10 times.

Nope, l2p issue, my heals crit for 12-13k and i have no problems keeping my magica up. You have to build around your heals beeing magica based but their good armor sets for that. Ive beaten good players in a 1vs1 or 2vs2 with Werwolf in PvP easilyy. Werwolf can be pretty evil if it wants to. but what i do agree to is making the heals USE MAGICA but SCALE OF MAX STAM/WD.

Feel free to mail me on the forums on how you do it, because I have no idea how to. Need tips on how to play WW anyway

@Qbiken
Send me a Email=marvinkuchenbecker@gmail.com

amir412 wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Right now, too many builds depend on vampirism. Flame damage and "ugliness" (subjective) is the only downside to being a vampire. One gets all the benefits without having to slot a single thing.
My
Werewolf is only beneficial when the ultimate is slotted or when transformed. The prevalence of poisons in the game decrease the effectiveness of being a werewolf.

I'm not an expert, I just feel like there isn't enough incentive to be a werewolf and too many builds use vampirism as a crutch. I don't want blanket nerfs to vampires to make them as useless as werewolves, I want some "equalization"

In my opinion, vampires should get a transformation ult that locks out regular skills but opens some vamp skills (like werewolf do) in addition to what they have. And Werewolf should get an "always on" passive without having to slot the ultimate (like vamp do) in addition to what they have. Make them "equally different". Vamp is useful for every single mag build, let werewolf be actually useful for stam builds.

I would use WW if this wasnt the current state :

* ULT cost is 300 points, its pretty too much in my opinion.
* Regardless the high cost ult, u cant even earn more ult in that state.

thats the only changes WW needs, its damn strong

Ever tried bloodspawn???? LMAO

I use this set for 2 years now... 300 ult is still too much with it

With me as a stamblade with blood spawn i charge up Ulti so fast i can literally use Werwolf im every major Engagement im PvP . No complaints here

IlCanis_LupuslI · August 2017

Countcalorie wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Ever tried bloodspawn???? LMAO

Ever tried Brain???? LMAO
its pretty terrible on werewolfs.

Yes its pretty awesome ob werewolves. With everyone poison Injection spamming me it procs on cool down and if a warden is nearby .... Boom 11k extra resistances putting me well above cap.

max_only · August 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Just 8% passive stam regen out of transformation would at least make it relevant instead of completely without utility.

Only if, like the vampire, you are prone to werewolf weaknesses at all times too, such as poison damage. Otherwise there is absolutely no downside. Vampires have slower health regen, look ugly, take more damage from fire and fighter's guild abilities for that extra 10%.

Half strength buff and half strength weakness would be fine. Right now it's nothing. Absolutely useless.

max_only · September 2017

Who honestly says to themselves, "werewolf is going to help my team out so much"
Nobody. Please consider making these two world lines equally useful.

Ertthewolf · September 2017

max_only wrote: »

Who honestly says to themselves, "werewolf is going to help my team out so much"
Nobody. Please consider making these two world lines equally useful.

Well, built right werewolf can be really good. I got flawless in vMA after only a few tries with wolf. One transformation from stage 1-9. I have done all vet dungeons as a werewolf as well. No issues. Even saving the group from wipes by soloing bosses...Due to the tankiness and great self heal we have. Trials I have done all normal....Hard to convince a group to allow a few werewolves into the dps lol. So no experience there. You do have to build around the skill to make it shine. Plus you need at least two wolves for good dps and fun play. Otherwise you waste so much time feeding.

kessik221 · September 2017

i think they are right where they need to be. Werewolves make great burst characters\brawlers. They are super powerful for a a minute or two, then they get penalized. I'm running spriggans\ravager and bloodspawn on a stam dk, im hitting people for 10k on average with the spammable stun. That's *** op. Theres always a caveat though, I don't deal much damage outside of werewolf form and focus on ultimate generation.

Vampires? they probably need buffed. I have to laugh at anyone who uses mistform in small scale pvp, one, you are pretty easy to catch, two, mistform takes a lot of magicka per use, and you can't do anything but run. Plus you take more damage from fire and health recovery sucks? yea...GG.

If you look at the classes with limited mobility they usually have skills that make up for that fact, like dragon knights.

lucky_Sage · September 2017

yeah but a lot of macicka build need vampire as a clutch like dks they arnt viable without it it puts you a a big disadvantage.
with the lack of magdks or atleast on ps4 there isn't a downside to being a vampire cuase most people don't deal much firdmg at all

Jeremy · September 2017

kessik221 wrote: »

i think they are right where they need to be. Werewolves make great burst characters\brawlers. They are super powerful for a a minute or two, then they get penalized. I'm running spriggans\ravager and bloodspawn on a stam dk, im hitting people for 10k on average with the spammable stun. That's *** op. Theres always a caveat though, I don't deal much damage outside of werewolf form and focus on ultimate generation.

Vampires? they probably need buffed. I have to laugh at anyone who uses mistform in small scale pvp, one, you are pretty easy to catch, two, mistform takes a lot of magicka per use, and you can't do anything but run. Plus you take more damage from fire and health recovery sucks? yea...GG.

If you look at the classes with limited mobility they usually have skills that make up for that fact, like dragon knights.

Agreed.

The only time Mist Form is useful is during large scale PvP when there is a front line available to take cover behind. So it's good at escaping across short distances into safety - but as a stand alone escape move it leaves a lot to be desired for the reasons you mention.

LadyLavina · September 2017

I know I'm digging up some old s**t when i say this, but if they start messing with ww/vamp in a serious way,

the ww ult needs to be a toggle, and the vampire line needs a transformation with toggle as well.

-sits in bucket of water waiting for the flames to pass overhead-

letsdothedungeonslow · September 2017

No issue could demonstrate the need for a divorce between PvP and PvE more spectacularly than vamp and werewolf.

In PvP both can be so OP that a small group of them can disintegrate a much larger force.

In PvE only one is truly useful and the other is just flavorsome.

Are there any solutions?

Well...things that could be considered: -

- allow transformed werewolves to have 2 bars, one with there wolf stuff and one with SOME (but not all) of their other abilities. ZOS could easily look at every ability that exists and decide whether it would be broken in werewolf form or not.
- make more negative vamp passives so that its not an auto-pick for DPS but a toss-up. And before you tell me that thats what the fire damage already does, please dont make me laugh. If it burns you, you should already be dodging out of it. Being a vamp just makes it more important.
- truly examine the interplay between undead damage glyphs and make more out of the vamp. vs. werewolf idea. Perhaps enhance what happens when a WW devours an undead enemy?

ccfeeling · September 2017

Dont wasting time to beg zos buff ww
They never respect ww

Jusey1 · September 2017

My main character is a werewolf and I do agree, it needs some buffs but nothing too major. However, I am not an expert on this game so I have no idea on where to begin with. My only suggestion is make the Werewolf Leap ability count as a charge. This will technically be a buff mostly to the Tormentor set and tank specific werewolves, than anything else... I'll be happy with that.

However, beyond that, I really don't know. Like I said, not an expert on this. I'm more of an Elder Scrolls nerd who is loving the game for exploration and questing, than someone who gets real hardcore into the MMORPG elements of it.

Malacthulhu · September 2017

Why does vanpire and werewolf have to be balanced against eachother? They are 2 different skill lines altogether. Werewolf is more like overload where vamp is more like a subrace with an ultimate and fancier passives.

Wreuntzylla · September 2017

max_only wrote: »

Right now, too many builds depend on vampirism. Flame damage and "ugliness" (subjective) is the only downside to being a vampire. One gets all the benefits without having to slot a single thing.

Werewolf is only beneficial when the ultimate is slotted or when transformed. The prevalence of poisons in the game decrease the effectiveness of being a werewolf.

I'm not an expert, I just feel like there isn't enough incentive to be a werewolf and too many builds use vampirism as a crutch. I don't want blanket nerfs to vampires to make them as useless as werewolves, I want some "equalization"

In my opinion, vampires should get a transformation ult that locks out regular skills but opens some vamp skills (like werewolf do) in addition to what they have. And Werewolf should get an "always on" passive without having to slot the ultimate (like vamp do) in addition to what they have. Make them "equally different". Vamp is useful for every single mag build, let werewolf be actually useful for stam builds.

Werewolves are borderline OP when built right and in a group of werewolves.

Scratch that, it's OP. My guild does it to support some DC role players that make us laugh. Our first time out in BGs we mostly ignored objectives and still won every game.

Vamp could use some sprucing. I'm willing to bet that almost all vamps use it for stealth speed or damage reduction. I would have added health return but they nerfed the living youknowwhat out of health builds.

Riejael · September 2017

I'm going to say the same thing I said a while back. They do need to do 'something' with the two lines.

WW is pretty damn fun to play. When the ultimate sparks up and you transform, you feel like you're on a bloody rampage. The feel is right. Its alot of fun to play. However.. its a 20 skill point ultimate that locks out all of your other abilities.

Vamps don't really have much 'coolness' about them. They have no fangs. Their ultimate is lackluster in appearance. I mean you can only tell its going off by the bats screeching, can't really see them. And the whole feeding dynamic is clunky and without being a Nightblade, you cannot use it in dungeons. Passives are great, one skill is good, and the ultimate.. I guess is fine until you get meteor or ele storm.

Here's some things to consider.

For WW:

Hircine's Bounty is a percentage of either max health or missing health instead of based off magicka.

Pursuit affects you while out of WW form but at 50% of the value (25%/50%).

Devour gives you ultimate when out of WW form whenever you kill something.

Blood Rage increases ultimate when you take damage (x amount but only every y seconds)

Savage Strength affects you outside WW form, but at a third of the value (3%/6%)

Call of the Pack gives you a substantial amount of ultimate outside of WW when a party member transforms. But only if transform is currently slotted (and the active ultimate when the event occurs).

Poison damage suppresses these bonuses for x amount of seconds.

Customization for WW form. Fur color, facial expressions, body type. We all look the same, shouldn't be like that.

For Vamps:

Allow feeding in combat. Feeding in combat doesn't change vampirism level. It gives a bonus to the next spell attack performed within x amount of seconds as well as some health restored. Still requires you to be behind the target. Also is no longer channeled and doesn't stun when used this way.

Drain Essence is replaced by something more useful. Like a CC or a summon temporary pet or something.

Fangs, vamps need fangs.

Customization options, the ability to show any stage of vampirism at any time.

max_only · September 2017

Malacthulhu wrote: »

Why does vanpire and werewolf have to be balanced against eachother? They are 2 different skill lines altogether. Werewolf is more like overload where vamp is more like a subrace with an ultimate and fancier passives.

Werewolf would be like Overload if it was a toggle. I accept.