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Histrionics on the forum....
Mureel
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One thing I can't help but notice is the level of histrionics here and I could utterly understand why so many questions go unanswered.
Whilst it's legit to have a complaint and want your issue to be handled, I feel that there is too much forest to see the trees.
I know that Gina and co are more professional than I am, given that this is not my job, but I personally immediately disregard posts with words and statements like punished, slap in the face, pay to win (in this game), gambling (the boxes are like not even 1% of this game and they're optional!), DEMANDS, and pity party posts.
I really think that if people cut that out then it would be easier to spot relevant and actual issues over entitlement, implied privilege and posts that do nothing but make drama by using statements like punished and slap in the face.
No one, I assure you, cares enough about you personally to punish you or slap you in the face.
This is a business whose public face, on the whole, is pretty good really. (You know it!)
I'm no white knight, but I know if seeing it all makes me LOL and think omg, next! Then I can only imagine how someone whose job it is may feel.
Clearly I can't speak for them and maybe I am just talking out my backside and they love histrionics day in and day out because you didn't get the mount you wanted, someone killed you or you can't complete X - but I know that if I am over it there might be a good chance that others are too and maybe if we try and explain our issue better, without using inflammatory text, we might get more attention.
I'm guilty of it myself to a small degree so pointing at myself here too - but yeah.
Just something that's been on my mind.
Maybe I should just get a blog
Whilst it's legit to have a complaint and want your issue to be handled, I feel that there is too much forest to see the trees.
I know that Gina and co are more professional than I am, given that this is not my job, but I personally immediately disregard posts with words and statements like punished, slap in the face, pay to win (in this game), gambling (the boxes are like not even 1% of this game and they're optional!), DEMANDS, and pity party posts.
I really think that if people cut that out then it would be easier to spot relevant and actual issues over entitlement, implied privilege and posts that do nothing but make drama by using statements like punished and slap in the face.
No one, I assure you, cares enough about you personally to punish you or slap you in the face.
This is a business whose public face, on the whole, is pretty good really. (You know it!)
I'm no white knight, but I know if seeing it all makes me LOL and think omg, next! Then I can only imagine how someone whose job it is may feel.
Clearly I can't speak for them and maybe I am just talking out my backside and they love histrionics day in and day out because you didn't get the mount you wanted, someone killed you or you can't complete X - but I know that if I am over it there might be a good chance that others are too and maybe if we try and explain our issue better, without using inflammatory text, we might get more attention.
I'm guilty of it myself to a small degree so pointing at myself here too - but yeah.
Just something that's been on my mind.
Maybe I should just get a blog
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"7 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
That's one way to look at it. I don't hold the same opinion. I don't think people here are pedantic simply because they misconstrue "context". That removes all notion of agenda-pushing. There are certainly those who argue in a pedantic way, simply because they have a desire to ostracize dissent from the forums. There are also those who argue in a pedantic way because they want to belong to every conversation, so they find things to argue about within a person's statement, rather than against a thread's major point.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.
Yeah definitely! Take one sentence entirely out of context, put it into an entirely different context then essentially argue with themselves since they actually made the sentence into their own context themselves. Y tho?0 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.
Amen. Yes, their job is to take in all sources of feedback, but.. it's like any service-oriented job. Treat the employee/person behind the keyboard like a human, and you get much better results.
There are tons of issues with this game, ranging from annoying to upsetting. But flipping out at the devs or the CMs isn't going to fix your problem any faster.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.
Yeah definitely! Take one sentence entirely out of context, put it into an entirely different context then essentially argue with themselves since they actually made the sentence into their own context themselves. Y tho?
You mean like your signature?
(The context here is a poster called Rich out - playfully - and was getting him to engage with the community on lighthearted topics related to the game for a few pages, until someone said something like "omg zos when r u gonna fix ur dam game". Then Rich replied with that.)2 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
That's one way to look at it. I don't hold the same opinion. I don't think people here are pedantic simply because they misconstrue "context". That removes all notion of agenda-pushing. There are certainly those who argue in a pedantic way, simply because they have a desire to ostracize dissent from the forums. There are also those who argue in a pedantic way because they want to belong to every conversation, so they find things to argue about within a person's statement, rather than against a thread's major point.
I think that often, people derail the point becoming hyper focused on one sentence or 2 which can mean something entirely different context dependent.
I'm not sure whether it's intentional and just a way to argue or if they really weren't ever taught how to debate properly. There are actually correct ways to refute a statement - pulling words out of context and muddying the waters is not one of them. I'm not a philosophy professor nor a debate coach so I'll not take the time to lay those down here, but that way of discussing issues just leads nowhere.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Histronics, is that going to be the new "toxic" or "cancer" term? Lol
Idk because I'm not going to pepper every post I make with it nor use it as a bat to smack people with should they disagree with me ;-) I cannot really speak for anyone else though.
Shakes magic 8 ball: Do not want to answer.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rhapsodious wrote: »I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.
Amen. Yes, their job is to take in all sources of feedback, but.. it's like any service-oriented job. Treat the employee/person behind the keyboard like a human, and you get much better results.
There are tons of issues with this game, ranging from annoying to upsetting. But flipping out at the devs or the CMs isn't going to fix your problem any faster.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.
Yeah definitely! Take one sentence entirely out of context, put it into an entirely different context then essentially argue with themselves since they actually made the sentence into their own context themselves. Y tho?
You mean like your signature?
(The context here is a poster called Rich out - playfully - and was getting him to engage with the community on lighthearted topics related to the game for a few pages, until someone said something like "omg zos when r u gonna fix ur dam game". Then Rich replied with that.)
Yeah my signature is meant to be funny...not mean :-) So kinda just exactly 100% like my signature.
Also, how do you just infer that I was quoting him? ;-) I didn't annotate it or link anything...lol I've said several times to several people in my life 'You know you don't have to x, right?' Well before he ever jokingly wrote it.
It's also a fact too, that no one has to be here anyway...so you could take it that way, or any way you like.Edited by Mureel on September 14, 2017 5:57PM0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS ignores everyone equally . I've seen great video documentaries posted with cliff notes and well stated facts with no emotional outbursts in them . Completely ignored . On the other side I've seen rage threads get a dev response sometimes . I don't think there's any formula here . It just depends on the topic and weather or not ZoS feels like it needs a statement .1 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
That's one way to look at it. I don't hold the same opinion. I don't think people here are pedantic simply because they misconstrue "context". That removes all notion of agenda-pushing. There are certainly those who argue in a pedantic way, simply because they have a desire to ostracize dissent from the forums. There are also those who argue in a pedantic way because they want to belong to every conversation, so they find things to argue about within a person's statement, rather than against a thread's major point.
I think that often, people derail the point becoming hyper focused on one sentence or 2 which can mean something entirely different context dependent.
I'm not sure whether it's intentional and just a way to argue or if they really weren't ever taught how to debate properly. There are actually correct ways to refute a statement - pulling words out of context and muddying the waters is not one of them. I'm not a philosophy professor nor a debate coach so I'll not take the time to lay those down here, but that way of discussing issues just leads nowhere.
True. I think where my opinion differs from most is that I believe many users derail and become overly pedantic by "purposely" taking things out of context. I don't believe the majority become involved in these arguments because they "accidentally" missed the true context of what's being said. This, of course, is hard to prove. Personally, I've just noticed a trend arising everywhere (not just forums) of people overly concerning themselves with language, and actual words used to convey an argument, rather than the actual argument's point. It's part of this "policing language" movement that's become so buzzworthy.0 -
rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭rhapsodious wrote: »I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.
Amen. Yes, their job is to take in all sources of feedback, but.. it's like any service-oriented job. Treat the employee/person behind the keyboard like a human, and you get much better results.
There are tons of issues with this game, ranging from annoying to upsetting. But flipping out at the devs or the CMs isn't going to fix your problem any faster.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.
Yeah definitely! Take one sentence entirely out of context, put it into an entirely different context then essentially argue with themselves since they actually made the sentence into their own context themselves. Y tho?
You mean like your signature?
(The context here is a poster called Rich out - playfully - and was getting him to engage with the community on lighthearted topics related to the game for a few pages, until someone said something like "omg zos when r u gonna fix ur dam game". Then Rich replied with that.)
Yeah my signature is meant to be funny...not mean :-) So kinda just exactly 100% like my signature.
Also, how do you just infer that I was quoting him? ;-) I didn't annotate it or link anything...lol I've said several times to several people in my life 'You know you don't have to x, right?' Well before he ever jokingly wrote it.
It's also a fact too, that no one has to be here anyway...so you could take it that way, or any way you like.
Hehe, fair point. I just see that one taken out of context so often.1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
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To be pedantic - how can you know if someone who is lurking is being pedantic?
And the reason people get so grumpy is because there can be huge game breaking issues, cheating or bugs going on for days and we'll hear nothing from anyone at ZOS... so tempers get frayed. However periodically someone like Gina or Jessica makes an effort to keep us updated on an issue and then gets her face chewed off for doing so because people have stocked up so much salt... I would think that makes them less keen to engage the next time... so the negative cycle feeds itself on both sides...1 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well...
It depends on whether you see the forums as a place where only legitimate concerns can be raised...
Or as a place to have some ESO-related fun while the servers are down for "maintenance"
Either way, the best way to react to people ranting on the forum is to rant on your own post about people ranting on posts
(This post is hardly raising a game-related concern to the ZoS team)2 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »ZOS ignores everyone equally . I've seen great video documentaries posted with cliff notes and well stated facts with no emotional outbursts in them . Completely ignored . On the other side I've seen rage threads get a dev response sometimes . I don't think there's any formula here . It just depends on the topic and weather or not ZoS feels like it needs a statement .
ZOS does not 'Ignore Everybody' equally or otherwise, and unless I misunderstand you, your last part of your post literally invalidates your first part.
I'm not trying to nitpick at all and I do understand what you mean, but using blanket statements like that which are literally false is perhaps part of the issue.
Is it fair? Definitely not, but it is true.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rhapsodious wrote: »rhapsodious wrote: »I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.
Amen. Yes, their job is to take in all sources of feedback, but.. it's like any service-oriented job. Treat the employee/person behind the keyboard like a human, and you get much better results.
There are tons of issues with this game, ranging from annoying to upsetting. But flipping out at the devs or the CMs isn't going to fix your problem any faster.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
The pedanticism I'd blame on people constantly taking things out of context.
You see the same thing in legal stature, legal print, it becomes so drawn out because nobody wants to leave a loophole. Combine that with forum dwellers becoming almost as good at it as lawyers? And yeeeeah, it has that effect.
Yeah definitely! Take one sentence entirely out of context, put it into an entirely different context then essentially argue with themselves since they actually made the sentence into their own context themselves. Y tho?
You mean like your signature?
(The context here is a poster called Rich out - playfully - and was getting him to engage with the community on lighthearted topics related to the game for a few pages, until someone said something like "omg zos when r u gonna fix ur dam game". Then Rich replied with that.)
Yeah my signature is meant to be funny...not mean :-) So kinda just exactly 100% like my signature.
Also, how do you just infer that I was quoting him? ;-) I didn't annotate it or link anything...lol I've said several times to several people in my life 'You know you don't have to x, right?' Well before he ever jokingly wrote it.
It's also a fact too, that no one has to be here anyway...so you could take it that way, or any way you like.
Hehe, fair point. I just see that one taken out of context so often.
Yeah I take your point and it IS fair, but I don't mean it in a snark way.1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »ZOS ignores everyone equally . I've seen great video documentaries posted with cliff notes and well stated facts with no emotional outbursts in them . Completely ignored . On the other side I've seen rage threads get a dev response sometimes . I don't think there's any formula here . It just depends on the topic and weather or not ZoS feels like it needs a statement .
ZOS does not 'Ignore Everybody' equally or otherwise, and unless I misunderstand you, your last part of your post literally invalidates your first part.
I'm not trying to nitpick at all and I do understand what you mean, but using blanket statements like that which are literally false is perhaps part of the issue.
Is it fair? Definitely not, but it is true.
I am saying the way a post is written does not determine a dev response , the topic does . Polite posts and rage posts can both go without any response from ZoS if they don't feel a need to comment on that topic .1 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tavore1138 wrote: »
To be pedantic - how can you know if someone who is lurking is being pedantic?
Pedanticism isn't a motive or feeling. It's a method of arguing you can see it directly in a person's response.
For example:
Person A: "Geez, these forums have really become a negative place lately."
Person B: "Forums by their nature are a microcosm of society, both negative and positive. Since their inception, they've been a hub for anonymous users to spew forth bile and filth, that a person wouldn't normally dare say in public outside of the internet....etc...etc."
Person A just wanted to talk about the recent unrest occurring in this particular forum. Person B saw this as an opportunity to pedantically wax intellectual about the internet, anonymity, and forums in general.
Another common example of pedanticism would be arguing against certain words being used, trying to "invalidate" arguments because of those words, and avoiding the overall point trying to be made.
Edited by AlMcFly on September 14, 2017 6:16PM0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »
To be pedantic - how can you know if someone who is lurking is being pedantic?
Pedanticism isn't a motive or feeling. It's a method of arguing you can see it directly in a person's response.
For example:
Person A: "Geez, these forums have really become a negative place lately."
Person B: "Forums by their nature are a microcosm of society, both negative and positive. Since their inception, they've been a hub for anonymous users to spew forth bile and filth, that a person wouldn't normally dare say in public outside of the internet....etc...etc."
Person A just wanted to talk about the recent unrest occurring in this particular forum. Person B saw this as an opportunity to pedantically wax intellectual about the internet, anonymity, and forums in general.
Another common example of pedanticism would be arguing against certain words being used, trying to "invalidate" arguments because of those words, and avoiding the overall point trying to be made.
Just to continue this to the point of absurdity and potential thread derailment - my point was more that lurkers are lurking not posting so you cannot tell what they are thinking. Your person B is not a lurker, they are a poster who, like me right now, is being pedantic.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »
To be pedantic - how can you know if someone who is lurking is being pedantic?
Pedanticism isn't a motive or feeling. It's a method of arguing you can see it directly in a person's response.
For example:
Person A: "Geez, these forums have really become a negative place lately."
Person B: "Forums by their nature are a microcosm of society, both negative and positive. Since their inception, they've been a hub for anonymous users to spew forth bile and filth, that a person wouldn't normally dare say in public outside of the internet....etc...etc."
Person A just wanted to talk about the recent unrest occurring in this particular forum. Person B saw this as an opportunity to pedantically wax intellectual about the internet, anonymity, and forums in general.
Another common example of pedanticism would be arguing against certain words being used, trying to "invalidate" arguments because of those words, and avoiding the overall point trying to be made.
Person A was asking for it, lol0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭For what it's worth, this forum is a video game forum utopia in comparison to many others. Have you ever tried the 2k forums? The EA forums? Essentially every post is pure insanity.
I remember checking out the Clash of Clans forum the day the 2nd village update came and ... wow ... just wow ... total lunacy.
We got it good kids. Real good. Enjoy what we have because this forum could be 10,000 times worse.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on September 14, 2017 6:25PM1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »For what it's worth, this forum is a video game forum utopia in comparison to many others. Have you ever tried the 2k forums? The EA forums? Essentially every post is pure insanity.
I remember checking out the Clash of Clans forum the day the 2nd village update came and ... wow ... just wow ... total lunacy.
We got it good kids. Real good. Enjoy what we have because this forum could be 10,000 times worse.
Agreed0 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tavore1138 wrote: »
Just to continue this to the point of absurdity and potential thread derailment - my point was more that lurkers are lurking not posting so you cannot tell what they are thinking. Your person B is not a lurker, they are a poster who, like me right now, is being pedantic.
AH, well in this case, you and I were simply differing in our usage of the word "lurker". I just used it more as a verb: that these people were "lurking" around looking for new arguments. You took "lurker" in the form of its slang forum usage, to mean someone who lurks around and never ever comments. I was not using the slang form of lurker, and I understand your confusion.
See. Pendaticism in action. ;P
Edited by AlMcFly on September 14, 2017 6:33PM0 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Histrionics doesn't roll off my tongue.
Rage monkey on the other hand, potential!
I'm not sure if they get all the attention though. Maybe a cage full of them.
Rage cage.
Rage monkey cage.
I try to be lighthearted about it. Very few people make it on to my ignore list, just the ones who (in my view) spew very asinine comments in every thread. Every family has the uncle with the foul language or short temper, we'll work it out.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hear you, I feel you.
I have been on gaming forums since the last millennia, either as a poster or a moderator or a capacity much like I am in now.
We have two basic types of people, those who raise concerns in a reasonable manner, perhaps offering a solution, but maybe just asking for help or something. Then we have the Rage Monkeys who pound out diatribes against the machine.
In all this time, it has never changed. Guess which posts get attention paid to them by the people who can do something? I think you know the answer.
True. And occasionally we get a well thought out post to start a thread.0
