Mighty Chudan (2 piece) vs 1 piece Pirate Skelly and 1 piece Chudan...

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2017

I am a strong supporter of the Mighty Chudan Monster Set; I think this Monster Set is one of the strongest in the game (especially as pertains to my very specific build)...

Well some here on the forums have suggested an interesting alternative to wearing my favored Monster Set; 1 piece Pirate Skelly + 1 piece Chudan while buffing up with Either Morph of Rune Focus; at first glance, it appears that their suggestion is the superior option as it would net you greater Resistances when buffed than 2 piece Mighty Chudan would...

But is their suggestion truly the superior option?

Well, lets theory test it and see...

I will evaluate the two options as pertains my Vampire Lord build https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4357395#Comment_4357395 (which, admittedly, is highly optimized to take advantage of the ability that I slot in place of Rune Focus; Structured Entropy)...

Thus, this comparison will be Mighty Chudan x2 + Structured Entropy vs 1 piece Pirate Skelly + 1 piece Chudan + Either Morph of Rune Focus...

Lets start with what each setup will give you at all times without you having to cast a single ability:

Mighty Chudan x2 + Structured Entropy:

8255 Spell/Physical Resist...
3205 Max Health (Structured Entropy gives me around 2000 extra Max Health)...
600 Max Magicka...

vs

1 piece Pirate Skelly + 1 piece Chudan + Either Morph of Rune Focus:

5950 Spell/Physical Resist only...

Conclusion: as pertains what each set up will give you that's in constant effect, Mighty Chudan x2/Structured Entropy far surpasses what the 1 piece Pirate Skelly/1 piece Chudan/Rune Focus build will give...

Now lets look at what each will bring to the table when buffed by Structured Entropy and either morph of Rune Focus respectively:

Mighty Chudan x2 + Structured Entropy:

8255 Spell/Physical Resist...
3205 Max Health...
600 Max Magicka...
Major Sorcery for 20 secs...
7000+ damage over time over the course of 14 secs...
Will Empower the next Spell Cast...
3 ticks of healing over the course of 14 secs...
Can Proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield (with my Spell Crit of 63%, it will Proc the Damage Shield roughly 2 out of 3 times on average for the duration of this ability [it will potentially Proc on seconds 1, 7, and 13] for a total of 16,390 points of damage negation)...

vs

1 piece Pirate Skelly + 1 piece Chudan + Either Morph of Rune Focus:

11230 Spell/Physical Resist for 16 total seconds; 8 seconds after you leave the circle...
Reduced Spell Cost and Extra Magicka Regen every .5 secs (I read somewhere that this equals about 400 extra Magicka Regen; not sure if that is correct though) for one morph of this ability OR extra healing received (+15% I think) for the other morph (please note that I haven't used either morph of this ability in a very long time and cant remember exactly what each gives, so please forgive me if the info pertaining to this ability is dated)...
Grants Minor Mending while in the circle for the duration of the ability...

Conclusion: even when buffed by each respective ability, Mighty Chudan x2/Structured Entropy beat the alternative by a very large degree as pertains to what each gives as a whole on average...

My Mighty Chudan x2/Structured Entropy build will give far greater survivability than the alternative due to the Combat Physician Damage Shield and the Max Health Bonus it gives, and will add very significantly to ones damage output as well...

The alternative isn't bad by any means, but as far as my highly optimized build is concerned, it is not as good as what I use now...

Thanks for reading...

Brutusmax1mus · September 2017

This isn't how you should compare these two armor set ups at all. Youre just choosing different scenarios and comparing those. Then you even start assessing it on terms of ores interaction with armor bonuses which you don't at all for the other set up. You're comparing builds, and in no way does that confirm superiority.

To compare, i would start with stating the stats given by each, then asses what it utility it provides. Not synergies with gear. Speaking about what it would open up, for instance a bar slot since full chudan provides a major buff many use a bar slot for. Even then you start comparing build vs build.

Other talking points would be the time it takes to cast the rune or spikes in every fight.

For me, with these two sets, it boils down to a bar spot vs higher resists. Personally, restoring focus vitality and protection is far more survivability than you give it credit for. This always has a spot on my bar.

You sure love your chudan huh

Minno · September 2017

As @Brutusmax1mus mentioned, restoring focus is a huge defensive buff. Depending on your build though, the mitigation from minor protection might be a 1-3% mitigation boost.

That's not the only reason a Templar picks that morph. You also get 8% extra healing received. This equates to the buff Heavy Armor users get for slotting 5pcs. This is how Templars are able to slot LA or MA and still be combat defensive.

But we aren't here for restoring rune. Chudan is a great set, no doubt. If you have spells that require constantly upkeep on their casting, being able to remove a buff spell in favor of a combat one is a huge benefit for builds. But here's why I chose mixed over 2pc chudan:
- 2975 flat bonus. Never flashy, always there. Equates to 4.49% DMG mitigation before penetration.
- two of these stat bonuses equals 5950. This is about a 8.98% mitigation boost. This resistance value is also 500 resistance less than bloodspawn but requires no condition of being hit or waiting for a cooldown.
- compared to chudan, it's "always on" buff is significantly less. But it stacks more with the armor buff. 11230 extra resists is huge (16.96%). Chudan is only 8180 ( 12.35%). Two pc resistance + major buffs is 4% higher than 2pc chudan.
- now let's compare another benefit. Chudan forces you to use up two slots. What about builds wanting to use destro staff? 1pc pirate+ any set of your choosing will give you 8255 resistance with a major resist buff. That's 12.46% versus chudan's 12.35% mitigation. Now consider that if you don't need the extra slot for a set, you can slot kena for 129 SD (1290 mag equivalent). With minor/major sorcery stacks, Templars/sorcs can make better use of 1pc kena than other classes.

Conclusion:
If you want to save a skill slot+gain health, chudan is prefered. If but looking for max stats, 1pc pirate/1pc chudan + buffs will give you superior extra resists. If looking for combo defense/offensive stats, 1pc pirate+any item of your choosing gives you the flexibility you need to round out your build.

It comes down to your build and what's important to your playstyle. If you hate casting defensive skills, chudan is best. If you want flexibility, 1pc/mix is best. If you want high resist stacks, 1pc pirate/chudan.

paulsimonps · September 2017

Minno wrote: »

As @Brutusmax1mus mentioned, restoring focus is a huge defensive buff. Depending on your build though, the mitigation from minor protection might be a 1-3% mitigation boost.

That's not the only reason a Templar picks that morph. You also get 8% extra healing received. This equates to the buff Heavy Armor users get for slotting 5pcs. This is how Templars are able to slot LA or MA and still be combat defensive.

But we aren't here for restoring rune. Chudan is a great set, no doubt. If you have spells that require constantly upkeep on their casting, being able to remove a buff spell in favor of a combat one is a huge benefit for builds. But here's why I chose mixed over 2pc chudan:
- 2975 flat bonus. Never flashy, always there. Equates to 4.49% DMG mitigation before penetration.
- two of these stat bonuses equals 5950. This is about a 8.98% mitigation boost. This resistance value is also 500 resistance less than bloodspawn but requires no condition of being hit or waiting for a cooldown.
- compared to chudan, it's "always on" buff is significantly less. But it stacks more with the armor buff. 11230 extra resists is huge (16.96%). Chudan is only 8180 ( 12.35%). Two pc resistance + major buffs is 4% higher than 2pc chudan.
- now let's compare another benefit. Chudan forces you to use up two slots. What about builds wanting to use destro staff? 1pc pirate+ any set of your choosing will give you 8255 resistance with a major resist buff. That's 12.46% versus chudan's 12.35% mitigation. Now consider that if you don't need the extra slot for a set, you can slot kena for 129 SD (1290 mag equivalent). With minor/major sorcery stacks, Templars/sorcs can make better use of 1pc kena than other classes.

Conclusion:
If you want to save a skill slot+gain health, chudan is prefered. If but looking for max stats, 1pc pirate/1pc chudan + buffs will give you superior extra resists. If looking for combo defense/offensive stats, 1pc pirate+any item of your choosing gives you the flexibility you need to round out your build.

It comes down to your build and what's important to your playstyle. If you hate casting defensive skills, chudan is best. If you want flexibility, 1pc/mix is best. If you want high resist stacks, 1pc pirate/chudan.

Another way to resistance stack if you are in fights were you are not moving a lot, more for PvE then, is 2p Lord Warden. Its up time is almost at 100% for most tanks, its basically almost always up and together with its 1p, 2p and Major Ward and Resolve you land at 12125 Resistance or 18.3% mitigation(diminishing returns obviously applies if stacked with other sources of mitigation), where 3870 of that resistance goes to allies as well. So got 4 different types of play styles in this little discussion now and which set up you use depends on how you play.

Minno · September 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

As @Brutusmax1mus mentioned, restoring focus is a huge defensive buff. Depending on your build though, the mitigation from minor protection might be a 1-3% mitigation boost.

That's not the only reason a Templar picks that morph. You also get 8% extra healing received. This equates to the buff Heavy Armor users get for slotting 5pcs. This is how Templars are able to slot LA or MA and still be combat defensive.

But we aren't here for restoring rune. Chudan is a great set, no doubt. If you have spells that require constantly upkeep on their casting, being able to remove a buff spell in favor of a combat one is a huge benefit for builds. But here's why I chose mixed over 2pc chudan:
- 2975 flat bonus. Never flashy, always there. Equates to 4.49% DMG mitigation before penetration.
- two of these stat bonuses equals 5950. This is about a 8.98% mitigation boost. This resistance value is also 500 resistance less than bloodspawn but requires no condition of being hit or waiting for a cooldown.
- compared to chudan, it's "always on" buff is significantly less. But it stacks more with the armor buff. 11230 extra resists is huge (16.96%). Chudan is only 8180 ( 12.35%). Two pc resistance + major buffs is 4% higher than 2pc chudan.
- now let's compare another benefit. Chudan forces you to use up two slots. What about builds wanting to use destro staff? 1pc pirate+ any set of your choosing will give you 8255 resistance with a major resist buff. That's 12.46% versus chudan's 12.35% mitigation. Now consider that if you don't need the extra slot for a set, you can slot kena for 129 SD (1290 mag equivalent). With minor/major sorcery stacks, Templars/sorcs can make better use of 1pc kena than other classes.

Conclusion:
If you want to save a skill slot+gain health, chudan is prefered. If but looking for max stats, 1pc pirate/1pc chudan + buffs will give you superior extra resists. If looking for combo defense/offensive stats, 1pc pirate+any item of your choosing gives you the flexibility you need to round out your build.

It comes down to your build and what's important to your playstyle. If you hate casting defensive skills, chudan is best. If you want flexibility, 1pc/mix is best. If you want high resist stacks, 1pc pirate/chudan.

Another way to resistance stack if you are in fights were you are not moving a lot, more for PvE then, is 2p Lord Warden. Its up time is almost at 100% for most tanks, its basically almost always up and together with its 1p, 2p and Major Ward and Resolve you land at 12125 Resistance or 18.3% mitigation(diminishing returns obviously applies if stacked with other sources of mitigation), where 3870 of that resistance goes to allies as well. So got 4 different types of play styles in this little discussion now and which set up you use depends on how you play.

Yes!!!! Totally forgot about warden and it's benefits for group synergy/stationary builds.

Now if you want to discuss how easy these pieces are obtainable:
- undaunted chests gives you higher chance per hour spent playing to achieve a pirate/chudan shoulder than full chudan or full warden.
- pirate helm is easier to achieve than chudan (unless they made that dlc dungeon easier this patch.).
- warden helm is definitely easier than chudan.

But this is based on my own time spent joining random groups to farm pieces and the fact some people can't sit in a que all night to get a chance at warning a training trait item; especially when they want to quickly join pve or especially PvP before "spouse/parent agro".

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

This isn't how you should compare these two armor set ups at all.

And why not?

I have to look at it as each applies to my build; I have to compare my current setup to what the setup would be with the suggestion, so IMHO this is exactly how I should compare them...

Youre just choosing different scenarios and comparing those.

I am comparing them as pertains how they both would perform in actual gameplay conditions...

I am look at them as my character would be with both setups. Thus the 1st comparison is made with both completely unbuffed (when a bombblade appears in the middle of your group or when someone is attempting to gank you is the gameplay condition this applies to)...

I have to look specifically at what they would give me in gameplay conditions when buffed; the 2nd scenario...

Then you even start assessing it on terms of ores interaction with armor bonuses which you don't at all for the other set up.

Once again, I have to look at it as pertains to my character and my build, as a result I absolutely have to look at each setup and see what the end result with my gear will be...

And yes, I don't mention a power interaction with Rune Focus as there is none with my armor; to further that point, I don't know of any gear set that will Proc off of Rune Focus...

But as I have indicated, Structured Entropy (which occupies the slot that Rune Focus would take) does have synergy with the Combat Physician Armor Set (which I champion), so it has to be mentioned and considered when comparing the two...

You're comparing builds, and in no way does that confirm superiority.

It confirms superiority as pertains to my specific build...

To further that, it potentially applies to other builds; especially if the ability that you'd slot in place of Rune Focus has better synergy with the rest of your build...

To compare, i would start with stating the stats given by each, then asses what it utility it provides.

I don't think that would give you accurate results as you have to look at the entire picture (gear, stats, synergies, ect) before deciding which would be superior...

Not synergies with gear.

Once again, you have to look at the gear; you have to gauge how well any ability synergizes which the gear you wear...

For me, with these two sets, it boils down to a bar spot vs higher resists.

Its more than that as how a given ability that you will slot instead of Rune Focus synergizes with the rest of your build is highly important...

Personally, restoring focus vitality and protection is far more survivability than you give it credit for. This always has a spot on my bar.

No, I fully recognize the value of them; they are very good, but not as good as all I get with Structured Entropy (especially when you factor in its synergy with the Combat Physician Gear Set)...

You sure love your chudan huh

Yes I do!

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2017

Minno wrote: »

As @Brutusmax1mus mentioned, restoring focus is a huge defensive buff. Depending on your build though, the mitigation from minor protection might be a 1-3% mitigation boost.

I 100% agree; the buff is very nice, but is it as good as what the totality of what 2 piece Chudan/Structured Entropy gives?

We are comparing this:

8255 Spell/Physical Resist (in constant effect)...
3205 Max Health (in constant effect)...
600 Max Magicka (in constant effect)...
Major Sorcery for 20 secs...
7000+ damage over time over the course of 14 secs...
Will Empower the next Spell Cast...
3 ticks of healing over the course of 14 secs...
Can Proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield (with my Spell Crit of 63%, it will Proc the Damage Shield roughly 2 out of 3 times on average for the duration of this ability [it will potentially Proc on seconds 1, 7, and 13] for a total of 16,390 points of damage negation)...
1100 Magicka Cost...

Against this:

11230 Spell/Physical Resist for 16 secs; 8 secs after you leave the circle...
Minor Vitality for 16 secs; 8 secs after you leave the circle...
Minor Protection for 16 secs; 8 secs after you leave the circle...
Minor Mending for 16 secs while inside the circle...
2000+ Magicka Cost (if memory serves me correctly)...

IMHO, it appears that Chudanx2/Structured Entropy is a bit better; now I do fully admit that if you take the armor synergy out of the equation that its a lot closer...

If you take the synergy out of the equation you could reasonably argue that the 1 piece Chudan/Pirate Skelly/Rune Focus set up is stronger...

The determining factor on which setup is best is ultimately dependent on how well the ability you slot in place of Rune Focus synergizes with the rest of your build...

IMHO of course...

That's not the only reason a Templar picks that morph. You also get 8% extra healing received. This equates to the buff Heavy Armor users get for slotting 5pcs. This is how Templars are able to slot LA or MA and still be combat defensive.

No question, it is strong and is very valuable...

- 2975 flat bonus. Never flashy, always there. Equates to 4.49% DMG mitigation before penetration.
- two of these stat bonuses equals 5950. This is about a 8.98% mitigation boost. This resistance value is also 500 resistance less than bloodspawn but requires no condition of being hit or waiting for a cooldown.
- compared to chudan, it's "always on" buff is significantly less. But it stacks more with the armor buff. 11230 extra resists is huge (16.96%). Chudan is only 8180 ( 12.35%). Two pc resistance + major buffs is 4% higher than 2pc chudan.
- now let's compare another benefit. Chudan forces you to use up two slots. What about builds wanting to use destro staff? 1pc pirate+ any set of your choosing will give you 8255 resistance with a major resist buff. That's 12.46% versus chudan's 12.35% mitigation. Now consider that if you don't need the extra slot for a set, you can slot kena for 129 SD (1290 mag equivalent). With minor/major sorcery stacks, Templars/sorcs can make better use of 1pc kena than other classes.

I do agree with you here; 1 piece Pirate/1 Piece Chudan/Rune Focus will absolutely net you more resistance that 2 piece Chudan would...

Like I said, the critical factor on how effective your idea is versus the Chudan x2 build is how well the ability you slot instead of Rune Focus synergizes with the rest of your build...

If you want to save a skill slot+gain health, chudan is prefered. If but looking for max stats, 1pc pirate/1pc chudan + buffs will give you superior extra resists.

I agree with you to an extent; Chudan x2 will open up a slot, but as to which offers superior stats is highly dependant on what you do with that free slot...

Are the raw stats offered by 1 piece Pirates/1 piece Chudan/Rune Focus (11230 Spell/Physical Resist when buffed; 5950 Spell/Physical Resist when unbuffed) really superior to what Chudan x2/Structured Entropy (8255 Spell/Physical Resist, 3205 Max Health, 600 Max Magicka all in constant effect) offers?

It comes down to your build and what's important to your playstyle.

On this point we both are in full agreement...

Brutusmax1mus · September 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

This isn't how you should compare these two armor set ups at all.

And why not?

I have to look at it as each applies to my build; I have to compare my current setup to what the setup would be with the suggestion, so IMHO this is exactly how I should compare them...

Youre just choosing different scenarios and comparing those.

I am comparing them as pertains how they both with perform in actual gameplay conditions...

I am look at them as my character would be with both setups. Thus the 1st comparison is made with both completely unbuffed (when a bombblade appears in the middle of your group or when someone is attempting to gank you is the gameplay condition this applies to)...

I have to look specifically at what they would give me in gameplay conditions when buffed; the 2nd scenario...

Then you even start assessing it on terms of ores interaction with armor bonuses which you don't at all for the other set up.

Once again, I have to look at it as pertains to my character and my build, as a result I absolutely have to look at each setup and see what the end result with my gear will be...

And yes, I don't mention a power interaction with Rune Focus as there is none with my armor; to further that point, I don't know of any gear set that will Proc off of Rune Focus...

But as I have indicated, Structured Entropy (which occupies the slot that Rune Focus would take) does have synergy with the Combat Physician Armor Set (which I champion), so it has to be mentioned and considered when comparing the two...

You're comparing builds, and in no way does that confirm superiority.

It confirms superiority as pertains to my specific build...

To further that, it potentially applies to other builds; especially if the ability that you'd slot in place of Rune Focus has better synergy with the rest of your build...

To compare, i would start with stating the stats given by each, then asses what it utility it provides.

I don't think that would give you accurate results as you have to look at the entire picture (gear, stats, synergies, ect) before deciding which would be superior...

Not synergies with gear.

Once again, you have to look at the gear; you have to gauge how well any ability synergizes which the gear you wear...

For me, with these two sets, it boils down to a bar spot vs higher resists.

Its more than that as how a given ability that you will slot instead of Rune Focus synergizes with the rest of your build is highly important...

Personally, restoring focus vitality and protection is far more survivability than you give it credit for. This always has a spot on my bar.

No, I fully recognize the value of them; they are very good, but not as good as all I get with Structured Entropy (especially when you factor in its synergy with the Combat Physician Gear Set)...

You sure love your chudan huh

Yes I do!

Sorry, i thought you meant which is better generally. Didnt know you meant for a specific build. Would help too share the build if you're gonna do that.

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

This isn't how you should compare these two armor set ups at all.

And why not?

I have to look at it as each applies to my build; I have to compare my current setup to what the setup would be with the suggestion, so IMHO this is exactly how I should compare them...

Youre just choosing different scenarios and comparing those.

I am comparing them as pertains how they both with perform in actual gameplay conditions...

I am look at them as my character would be with both setups. Thus the 1st comparison is made with both completely unbuffed (when a bombblade appears in the middle of your group or when someone is attempting to gank you is the gameplay condition this applies to)...

I have to look specifically at what they would give me in gameplay conditions when buffed; the 2nd scenario...

Then you even start assessing it on terms of ores interaction with armor bonuses which you don't at all for the other set up.

Once again, I have to look at it as pertains to my character and my build, as a result I absolutely have to look at each setup and see what the end result with my gear will be...

And yes, I don't mention a power interaction with Rune Focus as there is none with my armor; to further that point, I don't know of any gear set that will Proc off of Rune Focus...

But as I have indicated, Structured Entropy (which occupies the slot that Rune Focus would take) does have synergy with the Combat Physician Armor Set (which I champion), so it has to be mentioned and considered when comparing the two...

You're comparing builds, and in no way does that confirm superiority.

It confirms superiority as pertains to my specific build...

To further that, it potentially applies to other builds; especially if the ability that you'd slot in place of Rune Focus has better synergy with the rest of your build...

To compare, i would start with stating the stats given by each, then asses what it utility it provides.

I don't think that would give you accurate results as you have to look at the entire picture (gear, stats, synergies, ect) before deciding which would be superior...

Not synergies with gear.

Once again, you have to look at the gear; you have to gauge how well any ability synergizes which the gear you wear...

For me, with these two sets, it boils down to a bar spot vs higher resists.

Its more than that as how a given ability that you will slot instead of Rune Focus synergizes with the rest of your build is highly important...

Personally, restoring focus vitality and protection is far more survivability than you give it credit for. This always has a spot on my bar.

No, I fully recognize the value of them; they are very good, but not as good as all I get with Structured Entropy (especially when you factor in its synergy with the Combat Physician Gear Set)...

You sure love your chudan huh

Yes I do!

Sorry, i thought you meant which is better generally. Didnt know you meant for a specific build. Would help too share the build if you're gonna do that.

Its mentioned in the OP...

Its also mentioned in my sig...

SquareSausage · September 2017

i use 2pc Chudan on my pvp stam dk for resists and it allows me to remove spiked armour off my bar and I can slot green dragon blood which while active gives 20% stam and health recovery and last 20s!!! This also procs Burning Heart passive giving 12% healing recieved which your spiked armour would have given.