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We Won't Get a New Class Every Year...

Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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I sincerely doubt they'll give us a new class with a Chapter each year. Maybe another class will come in 2019 or potentially 2020. A new class would be a lot of work, and my understanding is that the Warden was considered a potential class before release and the spells for the new Warden class came largely from that work and the shelved Spellcrafting development. Odds are good an absolutely new class would be a much more significant project.

So chances are, next year, ZOS will add something to the game akin to a vampire/werewolf skill line to justify dubbing the content a "chapter" instead of a DLC. They may also finally add jewelry crafting. Lots of other big "upgrades" to the game will do.

What I've been considering is something inspired by an idea I read on another post on a forum poll. Somebody talked extensively about a concept he called "prestige" or master class, which is unlocked at some point after a character has been thoroughly developed. A prestige or master class would be different than vampire & werewolf, which are available to a character at level of progression. It offers a better incentive to keep playing than Champion Points because it would mean opening up new spells and skills. And I thought it was a cool idea for that reason.

My understanding from the post I read was that new abilities would be created for this purpose. And that's certainly a possibility, albeit a tall order from a development standpoint.

However, I had something different in mind.

Let an existing character learn a Subclass Skill Line from another class.

Currently, we have five classes, each with three skill lines. What if the game was changed such that a sufficiently developed character (the criteria for which, I'm not sure about) could "learn" a new skill line from another class? In fact, that could be the qualifying criteria -- the character learning the skill line must be high level and the character from which it is learned must also have that skill line maxed-out.

Just an idea. It would be a cheap way for ZOS to add something interesting to the game without needing to create all new skills and abilities to achieve it.

It may lead to some balancing issues as certain class/subclass combinations rise to become the "new meta" or "best-in-show" builds. Or it may finally put character development into a realm in which there are too many possibilities to explore for that to happen too often.

As it stands, there are 10 races, 5 classes, and presumably only 2 viable builds, magic or stamina (I wish hybrid builds were better respected, but alas, that's a community decision). You can be a vampire, a werewolf, or none, so that's choice for which a player has 3 options. So that means, currently, there are 10 x 5 x 2 x 3, or 300 possible builds.

Consider how many potential builds there would be if any class could learn ONE skill line from the others. Five classes, each with three skill lines. A given character would have a chance to learn any one of the three skill lines from the other four classes, opening up 12 more opportunities to diversify that character's build.

The new formula would become 10 x 5 x 2 x 3 x 12, or 3600 possible builds.

Add another werewolf/vampire transformation after that (maybe in 2019), we have 10 x 5 x 2 x 4 x 12, or 4800 possible builds.

And if they add a sixth class after that (maybe in 2020), the formula becomes 10 x 6 x 2 x 4 x 15, or 7200 possible builds.

Expanding the number of viable builds from 300 to 3600 (or 7200) could go a long way to mitigating the rise of cancer builds. Allowing an existing character to learn a subclass would also satisfy some of the calls there have been for a "class change" token.

That's my idea. It would add more diversity and character progression potential that the Champion System failed to deliver. Sure, it felt good spending points on the new passives after the Champion System was introduced... ...for a while. But now I've hit the cap and far exceeded it. Allowing max-level characters to unlock a subclass skill line from one of the other four classes would, quite literally, give us something else to play with.

Someone could give the storm calling Sorcerer skill line to a Dragon Knight wielding a frost staff and role-play as The Avatar (Aang or Korra, your choice).

Someone could give the restoring light Templar skill line to a Warden and finally make them into respectable healers. ;-)

Consider the possibilities. It would add a lot to the game (and do so cheaply for the development team) and would be a significant enough change to justify doing it in a Chapter content release. It would certainly guarantee everyone buys that Chapter, regardless of whatever new zone, dungeons, or trials. It might even attract people back to the game who exceeded the CP cap, got bored, and drifted away from the game.

Just an idea.
  • idk
    idk
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    It is more likely a new weapon line or spell crafting would be used for the "added value" that warden brought to Morrowind. Much simpler for the complex balancing issues we already have in ESO.

    Further, homogenization of classes as suggested does not offer more choice, but less choice. There will be a specific skill line that one must have for a given class to be competitive in PvE and PvP and anyone who does not choose skill line might have fun with something else, but they would be underperforming. It also does nothing to prevent cancer builds. May actually add some.
  • ThePrinceOfBargains
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    That's fine as long as they give us our damn necromancy.
    Edited by ThePrinceOfBargains on August 31, 2017 5:13AM
  • Morgul667
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    There would be too many balance issues :/
  • Nemesis7884
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    I doubt we will see a new class ever...pro ably new skill lines, but the class addition kinda sounded final to me....like what they didnt get to do initially
  • Morgul667
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    I feel like world/ undaunted / alliance skills could be increased ^^
  • Jade1986
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    Only class left really to do would be necromancer.
  • Imza
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    As an idea - perhaps that high level could actually be the cap for CP and have completed all the mainline quests and Cadwell's Silver and Gold

    Edit: Perhaps something to do with achievements also?
    Edited by Imza on August 31, 2017 8:47AM
  • red_emu
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    We want spears! (no! not you Britney!)
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  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    laced wrote: »
    Only class left really to do would be necromancer.

    One class to rule them all
    PC EU
  • Tandor
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    It's a difficult balance for them to strike, because it needs to be something that is both worthwhile as an extra to the game to justify the Chapter tag and encourage people to buy it, yet not so fundamental to the game that people have no choice but to buy the Chapter.
  • starkerealm
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    TheMaster wrote: »
    That's fine as long as they give us our damn necromancy.

    Dude, what are you talking about? People are raising threads all the time. :p
  • FloppyTouch
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    Am I the only one that wants a giant class with a huge club
  • FusRoGa
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    i always think about the possibility of getting Dragonborn as a class in the future, using dragon shout instead of spells.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    It is more likely a new weapon line or spell crafting would be used for the "added value" that warden brought to Morrowind. Much simpler for the complex balancing issues we already have in ESO.

    @Giles.floydub17_ESO
    Could someone tell me how exactly spell crafting could not break balance/ variability even further? I mean, either you restrict it's potency as a whole - and it will become a letdown. Or you restrict it to PvE only and exclude a partion of the player base (which is also against their idea to don't segregate PvE/P). Or you allow people to make the most ridiculous skills that will totally *** up PvP and force a this-or-bust meta in PvE.
  • gepe87
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    Yeah. New race or weapon skill line (mag and stam) in the next chapter. Maybe transmog included in a Crafting DLC...
    Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General

    If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language
  • Vercingetorix
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    A new class each year wouldn't help the game anyway. The problem is the lack of stability in the game coupled with ZoS ignoring player feedback - this game has other, much more serious problems.
    “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
  • Unlikely_Ghostbuster
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    It is more likely a new weapon line or spell crafting would be used for the "added value" that warden brought to Morrowind. Much simpler for the complex balancing issues we already have in ESO.

    Further, homogenization of classes as suggested does not offer more choice, but less choice. There will be a specific skill line that one must have for a given class to be competitive in PvE and PvP and anyone who does not choose skill line might have fun with something else, but they would be underperforming. It also does nothing to prevent cancer builds. May actually add some.

    The same arguments were valid points against adding the Warden class. As I recall, there were dozens of threads declaring the addition of a fifth class to be the end-all of balance issues before Morrowind was released. The same arguments will be raised if/when they ever take Spellcrafting off the back-burner. In fact, by your own reasoning, Spellcrafting would be much less likely to be taken out of mothballs than adding a sixth class.

    Also, I agree, homogenization of classes would result in less choice, which is why I suggested learning a single skill line from another class, not multiple skill lines, which would be the only actual way to homogenize the classes. Adding another degree of freedom to build diversity is the opposite of homogenization. It could have been a legit concern if there was one skill line that all classes needed, or if we weren't limited to just five abilities per bar, but that's no longer the case since Wardens now also have healing and tanking skill lines.

    Really, it's the belief that there should be "best in show" builds and the over-emphasis on only three respected roles (tank, healer, and DPS) that shunt build diversity. Combining that sad fact with the predisposition of people to post their super-builds online, that's how we end up with fewer than a dozen "viable" builds the player community recognizes.

    As for the balance issues, they have existed since release. There will always be balance issues and cancer builds. Mostly, that occurs when something new is added, like the new Warden class, the new weapon ultimates, and new armor sets. Something that has not existed in the game before knocks things out of whack. What I'm suggesting is comparatively safer because the skill lines already exist -- the abilities and passives are already known quantities.

    In the absence of a specific example of a class/subclass combination that would, indeed, be an indomitable omega-build that everyone would to use to be competitive, suggesting that the game will be worse-off is unsubstantiated. Certainly, getting to add a subclass skill line would do nothing to permanently eliminate cancer builds from the game -- nothing ever will. As long as there are players who take these types of games way too seriously, there will be people out there looking for the next flavor of the month that out-performs strangers on the internet (let's not probe that psychology too deeply). I don't think anything will ever prevent that. Increasing build diversity will add another layer of complexity to that search. So it's far more likely that cancer builds will become harder to find, not easier.

    If ESO were the type of game to restrict light armor to spell casters and heavy armor to tanks, then yes, I'd never have suggested the subclass idea. However, you can tank as as sorcerer. You can even heal as a sorcerer (sort of), if you are so inclined, thanks to restoration staves. I honestly doubt the developers will suddenly shy away from one of the game's core principles: you can do anything you want (and you should be able to do so).
  • Demolitionary
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    TBH people asking for a necromancer class, I doubt there will be a class for that, more of a skill line than a class.

    One handed scepter for example could provide necromancy runes to invoke the undead and bring them into Nirn, most will be also channeled by the looks of many necros in the story line.

    We can wish but never know what is really cooking in the Dev office.
  • idk
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    It is more likely a new weapon line or spell crafting would be used for the "added value" that warden brought to Morrowind. Much simpler for the complex balancing issues we already have in ESO.

    @Giles.floydub17_ESO
    Could someone tell me how exactly spell crafting could not break balance/ variability even further? I mean, either you restrict it's potency as a whole - and it will become a letdown. Or you restrict it to PvE only and exclude a partion of the player base (which is also against their idea to don't segregate PvE/P). Or you allow people to make the most ridiculous skills that will totally *** up PvP and force a this-or-bust meta in PvE.

    Anything added has a chance to screw up balance. Zos has set the expectation of something being added with chapters though.

    PvP is obvious that if something is OP it will be used but also players will complain about something even if it is not OP because they do not know how to deal with it or get attacked by 10 players, 1v10, and someone used spell X and kill them, like their death was due to the skill rather than the odds against them to begin with.

    PvE has and still is about finding the better rotations (some variation in magicka, less in stam) so I fail to see the difference.

    Besides, Zos would likely would make it slightly underwhelming like the Warden.
  • AverageJo3Gam3r
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    I don't think this would work in practice, because class skill lines are not balanced. In almost all cases the right decision would be to add storm calling. Pound for pound it is the best skill line in the game. You get:
    1. access to a third bar through overload
    2. an amazing execute for PvP and a decent one for PvE
    3. access to hurricane/boundless storm, the most efficient armor skills in the game
    4. access to one of the best AoE skills with a built in synergy for fueling alkosh
    5. access to the best passive heal in the game in surge
    6. access to streak, one of the best repositioning tools in the game
    7. access to amazing passives including more recovery, a passive execute, and TWO additional damage passives...whereas most other classes only get one additional damage passive

    No other class skill line gives you more raw power. Sure, some skill lines are better for tanking or healing, etc., and I can't deny that having radiant destruction on my mdk would be fun, but at the end of the day storm calling would all too often be the right (only?) choice.
  • Rajajshka
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    I only want more classes if they give us more character slots
  • Megabear
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    Subclasses = Massive balancing issue. ZOS will explode trying to get that balanced. Grimdawn devs can though.
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  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
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    gepe87 wrote: »
    Yeah. New race or weapon skill line (mag and stam) in the next chapter. Maybe transmog included in a Crafting DLC...

    Id agree with the transmog but I think transmog will have a crown store element in it. And I don't think they will want to limit the people who have access to it by locking it behind a chapter pay wall.

    But if it turns out to be free it will certainly be locked behind a chapter since it is something a lot of people want.
  • Mettaricana
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    I sincerely doubt they'll give us a new class with a Chapter each year. Maybe another class will come in 2019 or potentially 2020. A new class would be a lot of work, and my understanding is that the Warden was considered a potential class before release and the spells for the new Warden class came largely from that work and the shelved Spellcrafting development. Odds are good an absolutely new class would be a much more significant project.

    So chances are, next year, ZOS will add something to the game akin to a vampire/werewolf skill line to justify dubbing the content a "chapter" instead of a DLC. They may also finally add jewelry crafting. Lots of other big "upgrades" to the game will do.

    What I've been considering is something inspired by an idea I read on another post on a forum poll. Somebody talked extensively about a concept he called "prestige" or master class, which is unlocked at some point after a character has been thoroughly developed. A prestige or master class would be different than vampire & werewolf, which are available to a character at level of progression. It offers a better incentive to keep playing than Champion Points because it would mean opening up new spells and skills. And I thought it was a cool idea for that reason.

    My understanding from the post I read was that new abilities would be created for this purpose. And that's certainly a possibility, albeit a tall order from a development standpoint.

    However, I had something different in mind.

    Let an existing character learn a Subclass Skill Line from another class.

    Currently, we have five classes, each with three skill lines. What if the game was changed such that a sufficiently developed character (the criteria for which, I'm not sure about) could "learn" a new skill line from another class? In fact, that could be the qualifying criteria -- the character learning the skill line must be high level and the character from which it is learned must also have that skill line maxed-out.

    Just an idea. It would be a cheap way for ZOS to add something interesting to the game without needing to create all new skills and abilities to achieve it.

    It may lead to some balancing issues as certain class/subclass combinations rise to become the "new meta" or "best-in-show" builds. Or it may finally put character development into a realm in which there are too many possibilities to explore for that to happen too often.

    As it stands, there are 10 races, 5 classes, and presumably only 2 viable builds, magic or stamina (I wish hybrid builds were better respected, but alas, that's a community decision). You can be a vampire, a werewolf, or none, so that's choice for which a player has 3 options. So that means, currently, there are 10 x 5 x 2 x 3, or 300 possible builds.

    Consider how many potential builds there would be if any class could learn ONE skill line from the others. Five classes, each with three skill lines. A given character would have a chance to learn any one of the three skill lines from the other four classes, opening up 12 more opportunities to diversify that character's build.

    The new formula would become 10 x 5 x 2 x 3 x 12, or 3600 possible builds.

    Add another werewolf/vampire transformation after that (maybe in 2019), we have 10 x 5 x 2 x 4 x 12, or 4800 possible builds.

    And if they add a sixth class after that (maybe in 2020), the formula becomes 10 x 6 x 2 x 4 x 15, or 7200 possible builds.

    Expanding the number of viable builds from 300 to 3600 (or 7200) could go a long way to mitigating the rise of cancer builds. Allowing an existing character to learn a subclass would also satisfy some of the calls there have been for a "class change" token.

    That's my idea. It would add more diversity and character progression potential that the Champion System failed to deliver. Sure, it felt good spending points on the new passives after the Champion System was introduced... ...for a while. But now I've hit the cap and far exceeded it. Allowing max-level characters to unlock a subclass skill line from one of the other four classes would, quite literally, give us something else to play with.

    Someone could give the storm calling Sorcerer skill line to a Dragon Knight wielding a frost staff and role-play as The Avatar (Aang or Korra, your choice).

    Someone could give the restoring light Templar skill line to a Warden and finally make them into respectable healers. ;-)

    Consider the possibilities. It would add a lot to the game (and do so cheaply for the development team) and would be a significant enough change to justify doing it in a Chapter content release. It would certainly guarantee everyone buys that Chapter, regardless of whatever new zone, dungeons, or trials. It might even attract people back to the game who exceeded the CP cap, got bored, and drifted away from the game.

    Just an idea.

    You mentioned reading a post about new skill or advanced classes or whatever can i get a lik?
  • Nemesis7884
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    laced wrote: »
    Only class left really to do would be necromancer.

    nightblade is already kinda a dark mage...so i think a necro skill line might make more sense so every class has access to pets...

    a class i think could fit well would be for example a bard... with a dd, buff and debuff skill line...
  • Tasear
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    ...but necromancers....
  • Maikon
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    .
    Edited by Maikon on August 31, 2017 6:36PM
  • Akrasjel
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    I don't want more classes prefer if the use te time on more content/story and new game systems
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  • Ashagin
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    I do like the idea of subclasses. They should be more restricted on what extra skills you could get though since it could be game breaking. Or they should be set subclasses for classes you can choose from with one New skill line. Necromancy for example could be a sub class for sorcerer with one necro based skill line.
    Edited by Ashagin on August 31, 2017 7:38PM
  • DocFrost72
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    laced wrote: »
    Only class left really to do would be necromancer.

    You spelled monk wrong.
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