PVE is too Easy

Zardayne · August 2017

After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?

idk · August 2017

No idea what was said in that unorganized single paragraph so your message will not be getting through.

I assume you are saying vMA is to easy and it does become easy once someone has it down and does it regularly.

I am assuming you are saying vMoL HM and vHoF HM is fairly easy and considering the top raid groups getting good scores do demonstrate they have done much to figure it out and can do it reliably due to running it enough and their high scores demonstrate that. A new trial is to be added before the end of the year. iirc.

If this is about open world, it is rare to find a game were that is challenging for a player who has been in the game for 3 years and it is a poor idea to ignore new players coming into the game at this point.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2017

PVE Content
Overland and questing is easy.
Vet Dungeon difficulty depends on your team.
VMA is just annoying/time consuming once you learn how to do it.
Haven't done enough trials to comment.
VDSA - also haven't done enough to comment.

theamazingx · August 2017

If you have no interest in raid content, you won't find much challenge in just about any current mmo. If do have interest in it, the raiding communities on all platforms are starving for new blood.

SASQUATCH0 · August 2017

^^^
Maybe you should try vma or vmol

seedubsrun · August 2017

Yeah agreed. I brought up this issue too in a couple threads. People either agree or say it's a waste of time/will hurt new players by changing it or will just say "there's raids and vet dungeons if you want a challenge". I suggested a more thorough tutorial or a proving grounds type area to teach players how to use their skills as well as how to perform in their chosen role (DD, healer, or Tank) would allow Zos to increase the difficulty without hurting anyone. I also suggested a vet difficulty toggle for overland and normal quest gameplay. My worry is as the game goes on, the CP cap raises, and new areas are added to the game, that overland/quest content wont even be worth doing aside from just enjoying the story aspects. Really if enemies just scaled to maybe 100 points below your CP rank starting at CP 300 that would help instead of getting to CP 160 and just staying there. I'm with ya. Give us something tougher!

Khenarthi · August 2017

It's all a matter of perspective.

Try levelling on a new account with no CP, and no crafter. I'm doing this now as a change of pace, and maybe it's just me being clumsy - maybe it's because I'm trying out a class and playstyle I have not tried before - but I cannot steamrol through public dungeons alone: my lowbie level 26 character in zone-dropped blue&green gear needs to pay attention, or he's dead. This has not been an issue on my main account in ages...

I got 1000+ CP on my main account and thought the game was becoming super easy too. But if it is too hard for new or casual players, ESO will be in a bad spot.

Zardayne · August 2017

Sorry @Giles.floydub17_ESO I'm at work and had to throw something together at break.

My main gripe is the overland and delve pve. It's just too easy. As I said in my monster paragraph I've made new characters and made sure I didnt allocate any CP and it was still too easy. About a month ago I tried to recruit my nephew into the game as he used to play Ultima online with me back in the day and he last a few days and quit logging in. When I finally got around to calling him and asking what the issue was he said man it's just too easy. So even a new player (only one I've asked) felt the same way.

During the leveling of one of my last characters I actually did a ton of my leveling in Cyrodiil just to add some fear and excitement. It gave me that old excitement of leveling on pvp servers back in the day.

Unfortunately I've never been one for timed trials. Honestly I haven't even tried one as it's not bag. Some of the vet dungeons are tough and I really enjoy that aspect but I can only run the same thing so many times before I feel like a hamster on a wheel.

As Khenarthi said, I'm sure if they made it too hard it would hurt the new player experience or for casual folks. I just wish there was some happy medium there.

dotme · August 2017

For PvE zones, ZOS could introduce a difficulty slider that drops the percentages of all gear and weapon traits, enchants and bonuses so you can make your own journey more challenging.

Or you could try this:

idk · August 2017

Step up your game, and get your friend to do the same. vMA, vDSA, trials I nHM, especially the newer ones are where the bigger challenges are.

You will not find a current decent MMO that has challenging overworld fights.

Zardayne · August 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I guess I'm going to have to try those because you're right, there are no current MMOs that offer challenging overworld fights and I hate seeing the MMO industry going that way. I hate seeing all of the challenges locked behind instances but that might be the only way so casual/new players can enjoy the core game too. I've been looking for another MMO to find that difficulty (without luck) but I'd rather stay here, with ESO. I've got a lot of time invested.

Occasionally I've died in GW2 during a spawned encounter and you know I actually enjoyed that lol! It doesnt happen much since it's normally pretty easy too but when it does it's exciting haha.

Jhalin · August 2017

Overland is way too easy I agree. It was better before the One Tamriel update, then it had the standard difficulty climb of a typical MMO. Pushing ahead to higher level zones let you flex your muscles but it was still fun.

It was a mistake to get rid of that system, the "port anywhere" is fine but level scaling should have stayed. Craglorn is the only semi-difficult overland PvE content we have now, and that's only if you solo everything.

I do recommend getting into a trials guild, if for no other reason than to experience something new.

Asardes · August 2017

Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior, Fa-Nuit-Hen?

Magdalina · August 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

It's all a matter of perspective.

Try levelling on a new account with no CP, and no crafter. I'm doing this now as a change of pace, and maybe it's just me being clumsy - maybe it's because I'm trying out a class and playstyle I have not tried before - but I cannot steamrol through public dungeons alone: my lowbie level 26 character in zone-dropped blue&green gear needs to pay attention, or he's dead. This has not been an issue on my main account in ages...

I got 1000+ CP on my main account and thought the game was becoming super easy too. But if it is too hard for new or casual players, ESO will be in a bad spot.

I did try leveling a fresh new char(different server) with no cp. Still felt faceroll

Could solo WB at level 30+ too, though admittedly it took forever and was not easy. I suppose I kinda cheated though - I asked in zchat for newbie armor and someone made one for me

I can't say I felt challenged even after outleveling it by 20 levels though. I suppose I did have the knowledge of the game to back me up but honestly...I couldn't even practice weaving because mobs would die after 2-3 weaves at most even in 20+ levels old gear.

Honestly I just view open world as a graphical novel now, wish they'd remove the mobs for good there because they're just ruining my immersion at this point - it's suffering when hearing "blah blah epic fight" talk from npc when "elite" quest boss dies before I even notice it was the boss

There's no real fighting nor excitement there anymore, only the annoying chore of clearing the way to next npc(I still enjoy actual storylines though).

DocFrost72 · August 2017

@Zardayne This is not meant personally, but overland isn't meant to be super challenging. It's meant for new players, not three year veterans like us. For us, there are vet trials, vet dlc dungeons, and of course maelstrom.

BUT

If you want to have fun and really have a good challenge in overworld, make a new character with no outside help. That means no CP, no set gear, and if you've got the fire in you, all white gear with no traits you make at a random crafting station.

While your run of the mill mob probably won't be too bad, when you get to bosses (doubly so with world bosses) like this, you're going to have to fight for your life.

spiiros · August 2017

Have you run a trial... ? lol

SydneyGrey · August 2017

Now start a new account on a new server, and start a character with zero gold, no champion points, no matched armor sets, and your riding skill at 1. Suddenly you won't find it so easy any more.
ZOS has to make it so new players can play too. OF COURSE you'll find the game easy when you've been playing for a few years and have maxed out CP, matching armor sets and have studied the game for a long time.

Khenarthi · August 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Now start a new account on a new server, and start a character with zero gold, no champion points, no matched armor sets, and your riding skill at 1. Suddenly you won't find it so easy any more.
ZOS has to make it so new players can play too. OF COURSE you'll find the game easy when you've been playing for a few years and have maxed out CP, matching armor sets and have studied the game for a long time.

That is what I'm doing. And for good measure, I'm wearing random dropped stuff and trying to find recipes for my own food.. and playing a class I have not touched in over 2 years (sorc) without looking at guides. It's refreshing. Yes I can still defeat mobs and quest bosses without dying, but the moment I step into slighly harder things (public dungeons, world bosses) the challenge is there.

Asardes · August 2017

They tried challenging overland content and it turned out to be a flop. Craglorn was thoroughly deserted for almost 2 years because most people who play couldn't even beat those damned wasps, the gear was outdated and the repeatable quests not actually worth repeating.

Karmanorway · August 2017

Zardayne wrote: »

After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?

Veteran halls of fabrication, solo farming imperial city district bosses, and skip the banking until your finished

zyk · August 2017

I can't speak to Trials because it's been more than a year since I last completed one, but I did not find the mechanics to be difficult.

But for everything below Trials, I find it too easy to be enjoyable. It's so tedious, it's actually painful. If I die it's because I'm so bored it's difficult to focus. I can't bring myself to PVE at all anymore.

It's not just that it's easy, it's also the fact we've been grinding most dungeon and trial content for 3 years -- or in some cases, more. Zzzz.

What turned me off trials are the repetitious rotations. This game has such potential for high action raids, but so much of it turns players into human macros.

SirAndy · August 2017

Zardayne wrote: »

PVE is too Easy

- Make a Naked Nord and play, well, naked
- If that doesn't make it hard enough for you, play with no CP
- If that doesn't make it hard enough for you, only use a level 1 broom as a weapon

Rouven · August 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

PVE is too Easy

- Make a Naked Nord and play, well, naked
- If that doesn't make it hard enough for you, play with no CP
- If that doesn't make it hard enough for you, only use a level 1 broom as a weapon

Broom is OP, wait a week until your fingernails grow!

Zardayne · August 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@Zardayne This is not meant personally, but overland isn't meant to be super challenging. It's meant for new players, not three year veterans like us. For us, there are vet trials, vet dlc dungeons, and of course maelstrom.

BUT

If you want to have fun and really have a good challenge in overworld, make a new character with no outside help. That means no CP, no set gear, and if you've got the fire in you, all white gear with no traits you make at a random crafting station.

While your run of the mill mob probably won't be too bad, when you get to bosses (doubly so with world bosses) like this, you're going to have to fight for your life.

I don't know why overland shouldn't be meant to be challenging. Not all of it of course. They need to inject some danger though throughout zones and delves. Perhaps some wandering champion mobs with it's defenders. You see that quite abit in Guild Wars 2. Maybe spawned groups of npc with some elites thrown in to invade random towns and villages in a zone such as Rift has. A huge zone boss that spawns randomly once a day or week to keep you on your feet that takes 5+ players to bring down (such as a giant I encountered in GW2 once that took a lot of us to drop with multiple deaths).

In delves right now you can look on the map and know exactly where the boss is. Stengthen them and have that dude walk the halls (like they do the bad boy elites in the Imperial city) randomly on occassion. Nothing increases the danger and fear more than making a pull of mobs and then here comes the champ around the corner. That gets people backpeddling. Add traps to the delves that can actually kill you..slow the game down a tad and make a player think. I mean hell you die and you instantly spawn back up. Pride might be bruised a bit but after a few of those it'll toughen a player up. Other than that death's painless in the game. This isn't Asheron's Call where you when you died in the Lugian Citadel at 2 am in the morning and you lost you breastplate and best axe, you had to wade back in there just to get your gear back. I miss those days..the days of high adventure.

If we only had PVP servers like the old days..then you add some danger and excitement to PVE without even touching the mobs. Like i said I've got to the point I try to level PVEing in Cyrodiil.

These are all ideas that would make Overland and delve PVE fun and somewhat challenging. Trials and such shouldn't be the only challenges in the game.

Castagere · August 2017

Karmanorway wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?

Veteran halls of fabrication, solo farming imperial city district bosses, and skip the banking until your finished

Yeah i bet the OP has done non of this. So sick of these post where someone complaining that questing is to easy.

DocFrost72 · August 2017

Zardayne wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@Zardayne This is not meant personally, but overland isn't meant to be super challenging. It's meant for new players, not three year veterans like us. For us, there are vet trials, vet dlc dungeons, and of course maelstrom.

BUT

If you want to have fun and really have a good challenge in overworld, make a new character with no outside help. That means no CP, no set gear, and if you've got the fire in you, all white gear with no traits you make at a random crafting station.

While your run of the mill mob probably won't be too bad, when you get to bosses (doubly so with world bosses) like this, you're going to have to fight for your life.

I don't know why overland shouldn't be meant to be challenging. Not all of it of course. They need to inject some danger though throughout zones and delves. Perhaps some wandering champion mobs with it's defenders. You see that quite abit in Guild Wars 2. Maybe spawned groups of npc with some elites thrown in to invade random towns and villages in a zone such as Rift has. A huge zone boss that spawns randomly once a day or week to keep you on your feet that takes 5+ players to bring down (such as a giant I encountered in GW2 once that took a lot of us to drop with multiple deaths).

In delves right now you can look on the map and know exactly where the boss is. Stengthen them and have that dude walk the halls (like they do the bad boy elites in the Imperial city) randomly on occassion. Nothing increases the danger and fear more than making a pull of mobs and then here comes the champ around the corner. That gets people backpeddling. Add traps to the delves that can actually kill you..slow the game down a tad and make a player think. I mean hell you die and you instantly spawn back up. Pride might be bruised a bit but after a few of those it'll toughen a player up. Other than that death's painless in the game. This isn't Asheron's Call where you when you died in the Lugian Citadel at 2 am in the morning and you lost you breastplate and best axe, you had to wade back in there just to get your gear back. I miss those days..the days of high adventure.

If we only had PVP servers like the old days..then you add some danger and excitement to PVE without even touching the mobs. Like i said I've got to the point I try to level PVEing in Cyrodiil.

These are all ideas that would make Overland and delve PVE fun and somewhat challenging. Trials and such shouldn't be the only challenges in the game.

Overland content is not meant for end game players. It is meant for casuals and new players to experience a story. And as I said, you have the capacity to make it night and day just by dropping sets and traits and CP.

Think of it this way; if we made overland very, very difficult scaled to a cp660+ with bis gear and 3 years of working knowledge, how would any new players enter the game? It would stagnate, more than likely. You need the little roller coasters and the big scary one, both.

Wandering champions the strength of world bosses: heck yes!

Wandering delve bosses: might make it harder to track them all, but still heck yes!

Gear drop on death: Sorry, not my cup of tea. I would cancel my sub and stop playing.

Open world PvP: Sorry, not my cup of tea. I would cancel my sub and stop playing.

The two latter points however, I'd be fine with if they were a server option and not a mandatory game wide thing. Ie, if zos made an NA and EU "legendary" server for all platforms, giving people a fresh start and making you KOS in enemy alliances. I just don't see a lot of developing time going into that, cool though it may be.

Zardayne · August 2017

Castagere wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

After 3+ years of playing ESO I find myself slowly losing interest in the game. I found myself after 2 years beginning to take short breaks and then return temporarily refrshed only to fall back into the slump again. At almost 20 years of playing MMOs I thought maybe I was facing MMO burnout. I read a lot on the forums at MMORPG.com and a lot of the old MMO gamers seem to go through it along with the feeling the MMOs nowadays just aren't cutting it. Truth is, ESO has some very good qualities, from the amount of area to explore, the soundtrack, RVR style PVP, etc. Of course it also has it's negative issues as well, at least for me, but none that I can't adapt and still enjoy playing. So I kept asking myself, why am I feeling this way. I'm an MMO player for all of these years, hell it's what I do. My conclusion to what's causing this feeling is the simplicity of the PVE in this game. Overland mobs are really a joke. There is no fear of death. This includes delves.I know this topic has come up in the past as I'm a professional lurker of these forums since day 1 but damn something needs to be done. I thought maybe it was CP putting it over the tip but if you create a new character and don't allocate CP it's still faceroll easy. I know some of the vet dungeons are tough (thank god) but I can only run those so long until I'm blue in the face and swearing because that last piece I need hasn't dropped..We spend a lot of time in Overland and delve pve, I just wish there was some challenge, some fear, a feeling I can easily get over my head just farming mats in the wrong areas. Add some random champion mobs, increase the health of the ones we have, make them hit harder, anything at this point. Give me a reason to drag a friend around fighting mobs. Sorry I just had to rant. I'm getting tired of this easy mode a lot of these games are pushing nowadays and even though I'm a vet MMO gamer, I'm not the best player there is, not by a long shot, and I'm crying for some difficulty. Anyone else?

Veteran halls of fabrication, solo farming imperial city district bosses, and skip the banking until your finished

Yeah i bet the OP has done non of this. So sick of these post where someone complaining that questing is to easy.

Actually Castagere I have farmed imperial city. Fortunately though I do bank my stones. I've also ran dungeons dungeons repeatedly. Don't assume you know me...Have you not realized everyone in this thread has posted worthwhile responses except for yours? Number one, I'm a paying damn customer, I have every right to voice my issues and concerns with the game. Number 2, unlike complaining I've also offered solutions to the issues I initially posted about.

Believe me, if I didn't give a damn about this game I would have left a long time ago and left you to your dungeon gear hamster wheel.

PrayingSeraph · August 2017

Increasing Overland and Delve diffiiculty would hurt the game, as it would make things fustrating to most new and casual players. I would hate to see this game turn into Everquest where soloing is extremely difficult, just because some highly experienced players find overland and delve too easy.

Rainraven · August 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Now start a new account on a new server, and start a character with zero gold, no champion points, no matched armor sets, and your riding skill at 1. Suddenly you won't find it so easy any more.
ZOS has to make it so new players can play too. OF COURSE you'll find the game easy when you've been playing for a few years and have maxed out CP, matching armor sets and have studied the game for a long time.

That is what I'm doing. And for good measure, I'm wearing random dropped stuff and trying to find recipes for my own food.. and playing a class I have not touched in over 2 years (sorc) without looking at guides. It's refreshing. Yes I can still defeat mobs and quest bosses without dying, but the moment I step into slighly harder things (public dungeons, world bosses) the challenge is there.

This is the most impressive thing in this thread. Not kidding.

It's isn't just the specifics of what you're doing, it's that you took the initiative and made your own challenge rather than moan or ask that the entire game be changed to your preference.

Kudos, good sir or madam.

Bombashaman · August 2017

For OP there should be a difficulty toggle. Ramp it up and keep on going. There is no reason to make anyone elses game harder.

Cadbury · August 2017

Clearly, our sustain needs to be nerfed again