Thinking about coming back or leaving for good.

Rellick1313 · August 2017

I'd like to start off by saying I've loved this game off and on for about a year. It's a very enjoyable game and I love creating characters, PVE, etc. this isn't a "bash ESO" thread but a "am I seeing this the right way" thread.

So I recently hit max level on the Xbox One and almost immediately quit playing because I saw that depending on what role you wanted to do it basically seemed you would choose a specific meta build, which for me kind of ruined the game. If I wanted to be stamina DPS I HAD to use a specific set and play style. Not choose between a few but a specific one, and if I didn't I was not at a slight disadvantage but a huge one. Coming from WoW and GW2 I wanted a bit more variety in my choice. This seems to be the case with all roles, there's one build that is drastically better than any other build (at least PVE wise).

I enjoyed being able to have such diversity in my build such as making a Witch Hunter type character or a warrior style heavy armor DPS, but at the end of the day these were unviable. With Horns of the Reach I was reading the patch notes and the changes seem like there may be diversity in builds again but I'm not sure.

Am I perceiving this correctly? I mean I know there will always be a superior build but usually it's only better than the next build by a small percentage not a huge gap. If ESO is going to force me into one option per role in terms of build then I'm good calling it quits.

apostate9 · August 2017

Those are the two choices? Let me know what you decide, I was thinking of following Katy Perry on tour...or smashing all her CDs and burning her poster in effigy. Not sure yet.

Rellick1313 · August 2017

I'll join you! Let me know! But yeah I don't want to put more time into the game if it's just 3 different play styles at the end of the day. It's a good game don't get me wrong but my favorite part was character building.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2017

Rellick1313 wrote: »

I'll join you! Let me know! But yeah I don't want to put more time into the game if it's just 3 different play styles at the end of the day. It's a good game don't get me wrong but my favorite part was character building.

Character building is fun. It would be a lot more fun if the attribute-scaling system was removed. We're so restricted. Most builds start with this binary: Stamina or Magicka?

So many excluded, diminished skills because of attribute-scaling system.

apostate9 · August 2017

There are more than 3. That's just what the Internet says. Ignore the Internet, do what you want.

Cadbury · August 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Those are the two choices? Let me know what you decide, I was thinking of following Katy Perry on tour...or smashing all her CDs and burning her poster in effigy. Not sure yet.

Follow Taylor Swift instead. Her new song is enough to blow your mind.

freespirit · August 2017

As you said there is always a build that is perceived to be "the one you have to have".

However unless you are aiming for top of the leader boards, hm vet trials etc. I find that having a build "you" made and "you" understand is perfectly adequate for most if not all in game activity.

I'm stubborn I refuse to go grind for every damn new BiS piece, mainly because that BiS piece will most likely soon be no longer considered useful.

I have a couple of sets of gold gear that I have been using for many, many months, they have served me well.

Rellick1313 · August 2017

There's really only 3. You CAN do what you want, but for the most part there will be a huge gap between you and someone who follows the meta. Not a small gap, a HUGE one.

And yeah the attribute scaling system was frustrating. I wonder how it's going to work now that DoTs or elemental damage scales off the higher stats....

DMuehlhausen · August 2017

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

apostate9 · August 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

Nestor · August 2017

Why are you limited by the sheeple meta? If you do the actual math in all the builds you will see that less than 5% separates most of then with a large number even closer.

Don't let the min maxers who fret over 1% do your thinking for you. I have never seen a death recap that indicates that if someone had 5% or even 10% more ommph they would have won.

theamazingx · August 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

gp1680 · August 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Those are the two choices? Let me know what you decide, I was thinking of following Katy Perry on tour...or smashing all her CDs and burning her poster in effigy. Not sure yet.

Smash and burn!!! Smash and burn!!!

Cadbury · August 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

To be fair, "endgame" for some is having the best in gear, race, and stat allocation. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

SirAndy · August 2017

Rellick1313 wrote: »

If I wanted to be stamina DPS I HAD to use a specific set and play style.

No, you don't.

I have a stamina DPS that does not follow any of the meta builds out there and i never had a problem running it with my guildies.

geonsocal · August 2017

sounds like you enjoy playing a variety of games...which is probably the best and healthiest strategy for any gamer...

been helping my godson finish the amazing spider-man 2, and, move along in a bunch of the Disney infinity play sets...lots of fun...

focusing too hard on one game can definitely lead to burnout...at that point you basically start looking for excuses to put the game down...

theamazingx · August 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

To be fair, "endgame" for some is having the best in gear, race, and stat allocation. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

That's not endgame. It's not a playstyle. It's a build choice. No team is going to check your stamdk for a tail or make sure your sorc is wearing ilambris, all they care about is performance. It takes absolutely no effort to cobble together a build than can hit the numbers you need for endgame content if you want to spend less time grinding and more time playing and learning.

Megabear · August 2017

Who cares? Do what you gotta do. It's not a big choice.

Cadbury · August 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

To be fair, "endgame" for some is having the best in gear, race, and stat allocation. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

That's not endgame. It's not a playstyle. It's a build choice. No team is going to check your stamdk for a tail or make sure your sorc is wearing ilambris, all they care about is performance. It takes absolutely no effort to cobble together a build than can hit the numbers you need for endgame content if you want to spend less time grinding and more time playing and learning.

You're preaching to the choir, but not everyone does.

IcyDeadPeople · August 2017

Rellick1313 wrote: »

I'd like to start off by saying I've loved this game off and on for about a year. It's a very enjoyable game and I love creating characters, PVE, etc. this isn't a "bash ESO" thread but a "am I seeing this the right way" thread.

So I recently hit max level on the Xbox One and almost immediately quit playing because I saw that depending on what role you wanted to do it basically seemed you would choose a specific meta build, which for me kind of ruined the game. If I wanted to be stamina DPS I HAD to use a specific set and play style. Not choose between a few but a specific one, and if I didn't I was not at a slight disadvantage but a huge one. Coming from WoW and GW2 I wanted a bit more variety in my choice. This seems to be the case with all roles, there's one build that is drastically better than any other build (at least PVE wise).

I enjoyed being able to have such diversity in my build such as making a Witch Hunter type character or a warrior style heavy armor DPS, but at the end of the day these were unviable. With Horns of the Reach I was reading the patch notes and the changes seem like there may be diversity in builds again but I'm not sure.

Am I perceiving this correctly? I mean I know there will always be a superior build but usually it's only better than the next build by a small percentage not a huge gap. If ESO is going to force me into one option per role in terms of build then I'm good calling it quits.

For overland PVE and quests, your build really does not matter at all. You have tremendous flexibility and you can use almost any gear, any kind of skills.

For PVP, you have again a lot of flexibility to come up with original build ideas, even something nobody else ever tried before. Sustained dps is not important compared to burst dps, managing your resources, self heals, mitigating incoming damage and stunning enemies etc. If you want to perfect a build like this, you need to spend a lot of time practicing and testing.

For normal 4-man dungeons you have to figure out a slightly more optimized build. For dps role you want to strive for a certain level of sustained dps, say 10k-15k or so, but there is still a great deal of flexibility.

For normal trials and veteran 4-man dungeons dps role your options become a bit more restricted, because you need to achieve minimum sustained 20k dps for example, and the content is harder but there is still flexibility and you certainly don't have to choose a cookie cutter meta build.

For veteran 4-man dungeons DLC and for veteran trials the content is more difficult. You can still come up with original build ideas, but for it to be effective, you really have to know what you are doing and understand the mechanics and underlying math to pull off something crazy like a hybrid dps build for example. In this case it's a lot more common to use the popular meta builds.

Maelstrom solo arena is also difficult, but you are not looking only for sustained dps build. You need survivability and there is a bit more wider range of builds that can work in VMA compared to specific dps role in group dungeon/trial.

Then if you want to compete on PVE leaderboards, speed runs etc, you really need an extremely optimized min/max build.

apostate9 · August 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

I played the endgame PVE in ESO, that's what led be to believe it. I've been watching y'all do it for years. Slaying the same robots you've already slayed, beating mechanics you memorized in 2015. The mobs aren't getting better you know, you're measuring yourself against the same idiot AIs that you killed last time. You are not progressing through it, you're repeating it...and preaching to others while you do it.

Doing the same dungeon in 1.4 fewer seconds than last time isn't progressing. Unless you feel it is, then-- good on you I suppose. But let's not act like people with experimental builds or "non standard" builds are blocking your progress, you're on a hamster wheel.

If you want to progress through the hardest content in the game, go to Cyrodiil. That's where the enemies learn and adapt, and nobody will sniff your shorts to make sure you have all gold SPC, because ain't nobody got time for that. In Cyrodiil, we respect fighters, not preachers.

Slack · August 2017

Yea I understand you got to use the one and only good Stamina set to be decent.
Just tell me which of these it actually is:

night mothers gaze,
Spriggan,
Hundings rage,
Twice born,
Draugr,
Bone pirate,
Twice fangen serpent,
Vicious ophidian
Strength of the automaton
Or maybe torugs, which is also decent as your weapon skills will proc enchants, in case, you are not into weaving

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2017

Rellick1313 wrote: »

Am I perceiving this correctly? I mean I know there will always be a superior build but usually it's only better than the next build by a small percentage not a huge gap. If ESO is going to force me into one option per role in terms of build then I'm good calling it quits.

Wow, you had an option of 2 builds? That's HUGE. /s

No, you're correct. Endgame is only "fun" if you follow THE META (no matter how boring, or ridiculous it is.) Create a build that works 98% as well but is tailored to your playstyle? NOPE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

I was trying for the 3rd time to get into "endgame" content, and I just hate this mentality so much I can't do it.
I'm still keeping up stuff for my houses, as that's the only reason I play now. Probably will quit soon if ZOS doesn't up drop rate on purple furnishing plans.

theamazingx · August 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

You can play however you want, if you are going to play solo. If you want to do end game group content then you need to maximizing your character. It's only fair to other people that are also try to progress on content.

I hear this a lot, mainly in the context of PVE. Can someone explain how grinding the same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over so they can get a sword with the perfect meta-approved trait, so they can grind those same 10 dungeons over and over and over and over....

...is progression? Because that is the exact opposite of what that word means in English. What are you progressing towards?

It's not. Getting a decent build together, learning your class and role, and joining a group of other players to *progress* through the hardest content in the game is progression. I don't know what led you to believe that slogging through dungeons was the endgame of ESO pve.

I played the endgame PVE in ESO, that's what led be to believe it. I've been watching y'all do it for years. Slaying the same robots you've already slayed, beating mechanics you memorized in 2015. The mobs aren't getting better you know, you're measuring yourself against the same idiot AIs that you killed last time. You are not progressing through it, you're repeating it...and preaching to others while you do it.

Doing the same dungeon in 1.4 fewer seconds than last time isn't progressing. Unless you feel it is, then-- good on you I suppose. But let's not act like people with experimental builds or "non standard" builds are blocking your progress, you're on a hamster wheel.

If you want to progress through the hardest content in the game, go to Cyrodiil. That's where the enemies learn and adapt, and nobody will sniff your shorts to make sure you have all gold SPC, because ain't nobody got time for that. In Cyrodiil, we respect fighters, not preachers.

It's not repeating the same thing over and over if you haven't completed it before. And, surprise! Less than a fraction of a percent of active players have. And I'm not sure you'll find anyone who had the MoL and HoF mechanics "memorized in 2015".

Honestly, I just wonder what terrible guild put you through enough that you actually believed any of that.

zaria · August 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Rellick1313 wrote: »

Am I perceiving this correctly? I mean I know there will always be a superior build but usually it's only better than the next build by a small percentage not a huge gap. If ESO is going to force me into one option per role in terms of build then I'm good calling it quits.

Wow, you had an option of 2 builds? That's HUGE. /s

No, you're correct. Endgame is only "fun" if you follow THE META (no matter how boring, or ridiculous it is.) Create a build that works 98% as well but is tailored to your playstyle? NOPE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

I was trying for the 3rd time to get into "endgame" content, and I just hate this mentality so much I can't do it.
I'm still keeping up stuff for my houses, as that's the only reason I play now. Probably will quit soon if ZOS doesn't up drop rate on purple furnishing plans.

Are you in an veteran trial group chasing the leaderboard?
In that case I shut up as I don't know the environment.

More causal vtrial groups just have an dps requirements. Yes you might be asked to use some skills because of buff or debuffs especially if the only with skill in run.

Outside of vtrials nobody cares as long as boss droops.

disintegr8 · August 2017

If you are worried about what others think of your build, or want to be accepted into vet trial groups or match it with the 'best' players out there, you probably have it right and need to stay close to an optimum 'meta' build.

If you just want to play the game, do your own thing, switch between PVP/PVE, enjoy yourself, make a few friends and run some content with them - then you have it wrong.

I don't do 'meta' builds (although I Google for gear and skill tips occasionally), aren't interested in vet trials, speed runs, vMA, or being emperor. But I have fun, run with a friend or two, can solo dolmens, some world bosses and some normal dungeons. We 2 man most normal dungeons and world bosses, use group finder to run other dungeons, some vet dungeons and go and join in the mayhem of PVP from time to time.

Being on console, I am yet to play with the new patch changes but on the surface it looks like they are trying to 'broaden' the choices as to traits, mundus stones and gear sets. If this works it will be good, while there may still be 'meta' builds, maybe they won't be too far away from what a sensible player may set themselves up with for a race/role combination.

I might be on a magplar healer today, a stamblade DPS tomorrow, a stamDK tank the next and a magsorc DPS the day after that. I don't need to play each role perfectly to enjoy myself and enjoy the game.

ZiRM · August 2017

If you're not having fun etc. do what ya gotta dew!

Kneighbors · August 2017

The diversity currently is that casual player will be equally bad with any choice of gear. And dedicated player will be equally good with several builds.

If you think this is good, it is not. Before the life of average player was much more easier. Making a sorc with necropotence could have opened the door for casual player to game's hardest content. Right now you will need much more to fit into end game content (vMoL, vHoF, vMA).

The biggest issue with end-game content is that it is really poorly optimized. At vHoF you will most probably get down to 5-25 fps, this is normal there. Seems like low fps is part of the difficulty. Huge amounts of bugs will leave you frustrated.

Tannus15 · August 2017

I'm doing vet trials with my guild and honestly no one cares what gear you're wearing as a DPS. It's the tanks and the healers that everyone cares about.

someone has to have Ebon.
someone has to have worm.
Both healers should have SPC.

Apart from that do whatever makes you happy as long as you can get 25k+ dps on the boss. I don't care if you're a hybrid nord wearing 3 heavy, 2 medium, 2 light, no monster set, powered weapons and 50k health as long as you can do your share of the damage.

Axoinus · August 2017

OP...When you say "max level" what exactly are you referring to?
Level 50 or max CP? Because there is a big difference.

kuma82 · August 2017

I think the dlc has brought the chance to do some things different. As apostate pointed out there is no real progression, it is a hamster wheel. Progression would mean do dungeons to get good starter gear, that allows you to push into trials/veteran dungeons. Which you farm to get the best set items. Which then allows you to push into vet trials, maelstrom arena. That is actual progression.

Here there is no new area that brings needed gear to push forward. Gear from the start of the game still can be used, which can be good or bad on viewpoint. With each dlc, or expansion there is no new level, they up cp points but that doesn't do anything. They are not upping you to level 55 or 60, which would give new attribute points and make you use new gear that came out, once your cp 160 the gear is all the same level essentially. CP is an artificial way to make people feel like they are leveling. It makes you get stronger, and you don't have to get rid of old gear. Its like a stagnant progression lol, your advancing in a way, but you don't need to level to get new gear or get stronger really.

I enjoy eso for the most part, mainly because i dropped hardcore guilds as i left other games. The second job aspect of learning fights, studying online guides, and hours of doing the fight and failing so we could learn it burnt me out. With this patch I can use crafted sets, not bis jewelry and go full DW on both bars and pull 22k dps no problem. Which makes me enjoy myself because I like DW classes. So yes, the dlc, has brought the ability to do off specs better. But If you want to get into the harder end game, it either won't be accepted or you will have to work harder than normal to get by. Those are my thoughts.