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Restoration staff healing ultimate
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
S&B ultimate doesn't give you a crit damage buff. Doesn't heal your teammates giving them major protection, doesn't heal you and lasts for 6 seconds.The resto ult can be extremely overpowered situationally. IMO in general it's godmode on magblades and msorcs and just really good for everyone else.
They need to
1) Increase the cost to at least 140, and
2) Not apply Major/Minor Protection to shields (which is completely broken).
The restostaffult works similar to the 1h+shield ultimate, you shouldnt do pressure, when its active. Just wait until the ultimate effect is away and then you can go with your pressure. This ultimates works very tactical, so you need to play with a counterstrategy.
FOR sure many magicka sorcs and nightblades flame about this ult, because there pressure comes often together in same time this ultimate is up again. When you know this, you shouldnt play with allways same rotation in same time. That is easy to counter with this ultimate. Just make a bit pressure, that your opponent activate this ult. When its over you should go with all your pressure and its much harder to counter it.
PvP isnt like PvE content, where everybody do same rotation everytime and you just need to learn this 1 time.. You can kill people much easier, when you play very tactically. Do lesser pressure you can and go offensive, when your opponent dont calculate with it. This is the key to break against "OP"-ultimates like this. How do you think i can beat much stronger magicka sorcs or nightblades. Without using my brain?
Agreed, you can't keep pressure on a magsorc/magblade while this is up even if you wanted to. As soon as they pop this they go full offensive and you are on your back foot immediately.
The ult mechanic itself is fine IMO, but like I said it does need a cost increase and the Major Protection buff should apply to the player only, not shields.
What's cool is combining maim and protection to get the ultimate shield mitigation (also works additively this way rather than multiplicative muhahaha) so minor maim + minor protection = 23% increase in shield real value (imagine getting major protection or maim involved)
So Riposte + Warden Frost moves can mean a potentially 50.5% increase on an 7-8k shield... Nice
I like reading threads like this. Makes me realise how little I still now about the game after playing it for so long. Thanks for the knowledge people.0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shotI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everybody knows that a 100 cost ultimate which has a healing tooltip for around 40k+, gives major protection and major force and also works on allies is broken and would get hotfixed two weeks after the release of it in any serious pvp game.
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Stop arguing with them mate, it's pointless. These forum sorcs who pretend the ultimate is balanced also pretended that pirate skeleton was totally fine on shield builds. I guess they still think that shields with Major Protection scale bad into their 1vX and that magsorcs can't dodgeroll at all
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.3 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
Gotcha.
If people easily stun and kill you, isn't that true for a HoT like resto ult, as well? DB is instant, good luck stunning me out of it.
I am somewhat familiar with the differences between PvE and PvP, been playing this game for a couple days, thank you.
x'D
And now you admitted it, there are other factors that let you survive with resto ult. Heals, shield, resistances. It is NOT an one-button-wonder. And this is true for all other ultimates, mayyybe except destro. And all those passive buffs like resistance and impen are accounted for in offensive buffs like 15k penetration and concussion and so on.
Again, resto ult is only so appealing because it is cheap enough for 1v1 - which never happens in PvP. We don't need to nerf that. We need more cheap ults like Incap and resto and even Dawnbreaker. Before weapon ultimates were introduced, we pleaded for a cheap instant burst magicka ult. Even Sypher did. We got the destro ult. See what the problem is?2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
I think it´s quite simple tbh.
For normal offensive and defensive abilities it works roughly like this:
It costs between 33 to 50% more to heal/absorb one point of dmg than it costs to deal it.
For ultimates it should work the same.
Resto ult has about the same healing potential as soulassault has dmg potential. But it comes with an offensive buff and a smarthealing function and the strongest defensive buff in the game.
Imo it should cost atleast 50% to 150% more than soulassault/leap/incap - because it does a lot more and defense should cost more than offense.
Meaning it should cost between 150 and 200 ultimate.
1h + shield ultimate is a little tricky because the potential dmg absorb is so hard to measure. It scales incredibly well with number of attackers. It has the potential to save 12k + stamina per use.
Imo it should cost between 120 to 170 ultimate.
I don´t even know what to say about the warden healing ult. It should have alteast double the cost given wardens can access major heroism...
The other way around would be to improve and promote cheap efficient offensive ultimates for all classes meaning: Slightly reduced leap costs (add functionality to stam morph).
Improve templar spear ult (nobody uses it whats the name?)
Improve functionality/usability for overload.
Improve soulassault (while also providing better counterplay).
Restore dawnbreaker cost back to original (maybe offer a magic dmg morph).
Reduce cost for 2h and bow ultimate by ~30%.
To me it makes no sense that the game actually followed the pattern of offense being cheaper than defense constantly up to the introduction of weapon line ultimates.
1h + shield ult and restoult (and a little later warden forest) are the first two (3) abilities in the game following a pattern where defense is more costefficient than offense looking at the expense of the used resource. That´s bad for a where the ideal fight outcome has one side dead and not both sides being unable to murder each other.Edited by Derra on August 28, 2017 10:36AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
You what? This must be your PvE tooltip. I've got 35.5k tooltip (18.2k burst + 17.3k dots) on a build with 5.3k weapon dmg in PvP. If that's in PvP I'm realy curious how you achieve such numbers.
I checked it in the UESP Buil Editor. Even with 36.2K stam, 6.4K weapon dmg, 64 in mighty, 72 in thauma and 61 in MaA , the tooltip is still 47.4k. Sceptical McFreeze is skeptic.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
You what? This must be your PvE tooltip. I've got 35.5k tooltip (18.2k burst + 17.3k dots) on a build with 5.3k weapon dmg in PvP. If that's in PvP I'm realy curious how you achieve such numbers.
I checked it in the UESP Buil Editor. Even with 36.2K stam, 6.4K weapon dmg, 64 in mighty, 72 in thauma and 61 in MaA , the tooltip is still 47.4k. Sceptical McFreeze is skeptic.
Pretty sure that´s 20% increase on vamp calculated in.
Funny thing is still one max two ticks of restult is enough to outheal it - and it heals 5 times.Edited by Derra on August 28, 2017 10:43AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
Gotcha.
If people easily stun and kill you, isn't that true for a HoT like resto ult, as well? DB is instant, good luck stunning me out of it.
I am somewhat familiar with the differences between PvE and PvP, been playing this game for a couple days, thank you.
x'D
And now you admitted it, there are other factors that let you survive with resto ult. Heals, shield, resistances. It is NOT an one-button-wonder. And this is true for all other ultimates, mayyybe except destro. And all those passive buffs like resistance and impen are accounted for in offensive buffs like 15k penetration and concussion and so on.
Again, resto ult is only so appealing because it is cheap enough for 1v1 - which never happens in PvP. We don't need to nerf that. We need more cheap ults like Incap and resto and even Dawnbreaker. Before weapon ultimates were introduced, we pleaded for a cheap instant burst magicka ult. Even Sypher did. We got the destro ult. See what the problem is?
If yout 50tolltip dwnbreaker gets me while i am in a resto ulti, it will do: 5k damage, by all the mitigation. And will be healed off in 1 second.Edited by Skander on August 28, 2017 10:48AMI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
I think it´s quite simple tbh.
For normal offensive and defensive abilities it works roughly like this:
It costs between 33 to 50% more to heal/absorb one point of dmg than it costs to deal it.
For ultimates it should work the same.
Resto ult has about the same healing potential as soulassault has dmg potential. But it comes with an offensive buff and a smarthealing function and the strongest defensive buff in the game.
Imo it should cost atleast 50% to 150% more than soulassault/leap/incap - because it does a lot more and defense should cost more than offense.
Meaning it should cost between 150 and 200 ultimate.
1h + shield ultimate is a little tricky because the potential dmg absorb is so hard to measure. It scales incredibly well with number of attackers. It has the potential to save 12k + stamina per use.
Imo it should cost between 120 to 170 ultimate.
I don´t even know what to say about the warden healing ult. It should have alteast double the cost given wardens can access major heroism...
The other way around would be to improve and promote cheap efficient offensive ultimates for all classes meaning: Slightly reduced leap costs (add functionality to stam morph).
Improve templar spear ult (nobody uses it whats the name?)
Improve functionality/usability for overload.
Improve soulassault (while also providing better counterplay).
Restore dawnbreaker cost back to original (maybe offer a magic dmg morph).
Reduce cost for 2h and bow ultimate by ~30%.
To me it makes no sense that the game actually followed the pattern of offense being cheaper than defense constantly up to the introduction of weapon line ultimates.
1h + shield ult and restoult (and a little later warden forest) are the first two (3) abilities in the game following a pattern where defense is more costefficient than offense looking at the expense of the used resource. That´s bad for a where the ideal fight outcome has one side dead and not both sides being unable to murder each other.
The templar spear ultimate is called "empowering sweep" (the better morph) i use it everywhere. Don't buff it, or people will cry for a nerf and i will lose the only templar skill in the game that's balanced perfectlyI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
I think it´s quite simple tbh.
For normal offensive and defensive abilities it works roughly like this:
It costs between 33 to 50% more to heal/absorb one point of dmg than it costs to deal it.
For ultimates it should work the same.
Resto ult has about the same healing potential as soulassault has dmg potential. But it comes with an offensive buff and a smarthealing function and the strongest defensive buff in the game.
Imo it should cost atleast 50% to 150% more than soulassault/leap/incap - because it does a lot more and defense should cost more than offense.
Meaning it should cost between 150 and 200 ultimate.
1h + shield ultimate is a little tricky because the potential dmg absorb is so hard to measure. It scales incredibly well with number of attackers. It has the potential to save 12k + stamina per use.
Imo it should cost between 120 to 170 ultimate.
I don´t even know what to say about the warden healing ult. It should have alteast double the cost given wardens can access major heroism...
The other way around would be to improve and promote cheap efficient offensive ultimates for all classes meaning: Slightly reduced leap costs (add functionality to stam morph).
Improve templar spear ult (nobody uses it whats the name?)
Improve functionality/usability for overload.
Improve soulassault (while also providing better counterplay).
Restore dawnbreaker cost back to original (maybe offer a magic dmg morph).
Reduce cost for 2h and bow ultimate by ~30%.
To me it makes no sense that the game actually followed the pattern of offense being cheaper than defense constantly up to the introduction of weapon line ultimates.
1h + shield ult and restoult (and a little later warden forest) are the first two (3) abilities in the game following a pattern where defense is more costefficient than offense looking at the expense of the used resource. That´s bad for a where the ideal fight outcome has one side dead and not both sides being unable to murder each other.
The templar spear ultimate is called "empowering sweep" (the better morph) i use it everywhere. Don't buff it, or people will cry for a nerf and i will lose the only templar skill in the game that's balanced perfectly
Oh yeah the mitigation morph is actually nice. But it functions as both offensive and defensive ultimate not directly killing people.<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
I would like you to try and doing it.
I mean. Killing me with a 1shot
Math already killed you. Unless you have significantly more health than 25k and thus are probably a tank, DB alone is enough to kill you. Unless you have heals active. Or shields.
But okay, I'd like to have you pop resto ult in front of a zerg and survive. Or only use that and kill me. Hell, I wanna see you surviving against two competent players with this ult.
As i Said, you are very welcome to try.
Your tooltip is halved in pvp. You must then count the target phisical resistance, if you he has major/minor protection. If he has a heal overtime, if you have minor or minor maim. Pve setted characters last short in pvp for those reason. People are not dungeon bossess, they will stun you and destroy you.
I think it´s quite simple tbh.
For normal offensive and defensive abilities it works roughly like this:
It costs between 33 to 50% more to heal/absorb one point of dmg than it costs to deal it.
For ultimates it should work the same.
Resto ult has about the same healing potential as soulassault has dmg potential. But it comes with an offensive buff and a smarthealing function and the strongest defensive buff in the game.
Imo it should cost atleast 50% to 150% more than soulassault/leap/incap - because it does a lot more and defense should cost more than offense.
Meaning it should cost between 150 and 200 ultimate.
1h + shield ultimate is a little tricky because the potential dmg absorb is so hard to measure. It scales incredibly well with number of attackers. It has the potential to save 12k + stamina per use.
Imo it should cost between 120 to 170 ultimate.
I don´t even know what to say about the warden healing ult. It should have alteast double the cost given wardens can access major heroism...
The other way around would be to improve and promote cheap efficient offensive ultimates for all classes meaning: Slightly reduced leap costs (add functionality to stam morph).
Improve templar spear ult (nobody uses it whats the name?)
Improve functionality/usability for overload.
Improve soulassault (while also providing better counterplay).
Restore dawnbreaker cost back to original (maybe offer a magic dmg morph).
Reduce cost for 2h and bow ultimate by ~30%.
To me it makes no sense that the game actually followed the pattern of offense being cheaper than defense constantly up to the introduction of weapon line ultimates.
1h + shield ult and restoult (and a little later warden forest) are the first two (3) abilities in the game following a pattern where defense is more costefficient than offense looking at the expense of the used resource. That´s bad for a where the ideal fight outcome has one side dead and not both sides being unable to murder each other.
Dont destroy all low cost ultimates... I agree with you, that the bow ultimate need a small costs reduction, but 2H shouldnt get this buff.
And remember, soul assoult, lights champion, drawbreaker work only in smallscale or solo. In groups with more guys they are more and more useless, because of group fight.
I really think we need much more of these low costs ultimates and not less or no ones. Think about impen and the warden healing ultimate, both are very cheap and strong like hell. When other low cost ultimates would destroyed again, then only some classes have access to good solo player ultimates and thats just not like it should be.
BTW i totally agree, that this protection buffs shouldnt work, when a damage mitigation shield is active...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Nope.
Low cost ultimate that is AoE, stuns, procs Implosion, shatters vampires, shatters werewolves, can be timed with allies for inst-nukes, ...
As people pointed out, repeatedly, we need more low-cost ults. It is irrelevant whether that is weapon- or spell-based, ults scale with highest, and last CP update further narrowed the gap.
Got it?
You are certainly missing the point. Dawnbreaker doesn't one-shot you if you play your cards right. Resto ultimate on the other side, heals you full. gets you 30% less dmg for 10 seconds and gives you a damage buff. That's without counting your shielding (or other healing) and your dps
AND: dawnbreaker costs was 100 some time ago. They upgraded it to 120.
Dawnbreaker+DoT certainly kills a vampire without other defenses. Resto ult won't heal you to full when you're taking a lot of damage. 120 ult is higher than resto, but still good. We could use more cheaper ults.
I am a vampire. I don't get 1 shot by dawnbreaker
I've got a 50k tooltip on DBoS, with the DoT. Half of that is enough to kill you in Cyro. Not even counting crits and vampirw bonus damage. You don't get killed by DB alone because you have other defenses up. People survive with resto ult because they combine it with other defenses.
You what? This must be your PvE tooltip. I've got 35.5k tooltip (18.2k burst + 17.3k dots) on a build with 5.3k weapon dmg in PvP. If that's in PvP I'm realy curious how you achieve such numbers.
I checked it in the UESP Buil Editor. Even with 36.2K stam, 6.4K weapon dmg, 64 in mighty, 72 in thauma and 61 in MaA , the tooltip is still 47.4k. Sceptical McFreeze is skeptic.
56k mag. That's with a necro build. Taken outside Cyrodiil, so half it.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BTW i totally agree, that this protection buffs shouldnt work, when a damage mitigation shield is active...
That´s just nonsense imo.
By that logic it also shouldn´t work when you have a hot active.
I don´t want to destroy lowcost ultimates. I want ultimates to work consistent with the rest of the games design. That means defense should cost more than offense.
Strictly from a resource perspective it´s always and every time better to use defensive ultimates and spend normal resources on offense. This only gets further amplified that the defensive ultimates work as passive duration one time activation buffs. Soulassault for example requires you to channel it. Remembrance aswell. Why doesn´t restoult?
The closest comparison you´ll get to restoult is actually the bow ulti balista morph. Why does balista cost 50% more ultimate than restoult. It´s dodgeable and does not provide any buffs while having a little less dmg output then resto can heal for.
That means one of the following:
Defensive ultis need to cost more
OR offensive ultis need to cost less
OR offensive ultimates need to "do more" (not necessarily more dmg but debuffs/buffs)Edited by Derra on August 28, 2017 11:38AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭With the sudden rise of resto and shield ult spamers on 1v1s i'll flop and agree that this sucker got to go. Completly removes the fun on otherwise compelling fights.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭BTW i totally agree, that this protection buffs shouldnt work, when a damage mitigation shield is active...
That´s just nonsense imo.
By that logic it also shouldn´t work when you have a hot active.
I don´t want to destroy lowcost ultimates. I want ultimates to work consistent with the rest of the games design. That means defense should cost more than offense.
Strictly from a resource perspective it´s always and every time better to use defensive ultimates and spend normal resources on offense. This only gets further amplified that the defensive ultimates work as passive duration one time activation buffs. Soulassault for example requires you to channel it. Remembrance aswell. Why doesn´t restoult?
The closest comparison you´ll get to restoult is actually the bow ulti balista morph. Why does balista cost 50% more ultimate than restoult. It´s dodgeable and does not provide any buffs while having a little less dmg output then resto can heal for.
That means one of the following:
Defensive ultis need to cost more
OR offensive ultis need to cost less
OR offensive ultimates need to "do more" (not necessarily more dmg but debuffs/buffs)
I just use the restoult because i am able to do others things and dont have wasting time *** like a channeled heal.. for me it doesnt matter to get protection, i would use it when it just would give a heal or much lower heal together with protection... BUT we dont have diversity to choose defending ultimates, that work with every build. I can choose restoult or 1H+S ult. The templarhealing ult is stupid for soloplaying because of the channel and empowering sweep has a very low range..
I just hear that this defending ult is to strong or that, but nobody interested for other options. Why play many templar and Dk very defensive? Because they need to! Its really hard to make burstdamage like other classes, which dont have trouble to use just offensive ultimates! As Templar or DK you need your ultimate for defense against all this [snip]!
[Edited for profanity]Edited by ZOS_Mika on August 30, 2017 2:56PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just hear that this defending ult is to strong or that, but nobody interested for other options. Why play many templar and Dk very defensive? Because they need to! Its really hard to make burstdamage like other classes, which dont have trouble to use just offensive ultimates! As Templar or DK you need your ultimate for defense against all this [snip]!
Then put those ultimates on the respective classes (not that DK does not have a great defensive ulti - but it pales in comparison to resto).
Putting them on universal skilllines leads to classes not needing them using them
[Edited for removed quote]Edited by ZOS_Mika on August 30, 2017 2:56PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭I just hear that this defending ult is to strong or that, but nobody interested for other options. Why play many templar and Dk very defensive? Because they need to! Its really hard to make burstdamage like other classes, which dont have trouble to use just offensive ultimates! As Templar or DK you need your ultimate for defense against all this [snip]!
Then put those ultimates on the respective classes (not that DK does not have a great defensive ulti - but it pales in comparison to resto).
Putting them on universal skilllines leads to classes not needing them using them
We should have many more skills/ultimates for diversity.. And we should have access without a special weapontype. I never was a fan from classes, in the traditional Morrowind we had just races and everything could learned from everybody..
I dont like the way this game is actually going (offensive > defensive). I want tactical gameplay and not just kills like in counterstrike.. When this game just give rewards for that guys, who are able to oneshot the enemies, i will make my next break.
There are just few skills and ultimates against this evolution of the game..
So again, pls dont destroy the only way for tactical fights... Else Sorcs and nightblades will go superior again, because of the most possible burst with cc...
[Edited for removed quote]Edited by ZOS_Mika on August 30, 2017 2:57PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Derra defensive ults should be cheaper than offensive ults. Cheaper defensive ults are counters to Offensive ones. If they become more expensive than offensive ults, the TTk decreases and EoTs etc have even less counter play.
You should be able to Panacea against EotS reliably and consistently3 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most offensive ults have more counters than just using a defensive ult. And your EotS example is pretty bad, because that ult costs 250 and therefore more than twice as much as resto ult, so even if you double the cost of resto ult, you could still use it to counter destro ult "reliably and consistently".
Those defensive ultimates with low cost make it imo too easy to stalemate even numbered fights even with non tank builds and stalemates are boring. Offense should always exceed defense for this reason.Edited by Rianai on August 28, 2017 7:38PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@Derra defensive ults should be cheaper than offensive ults. Cheaper defensive ults are counters to Offensive ones. If they become more expensive than offensive ults, the TTk decreases and EoTs etc have even less counter play.
You should be able to Panacea against EotS reliably and consistently
No game i´ve ever played had cheaper defense than offense (and eso didn´t either up until resto 1hshield and wardenult got introduced). Cooldown based games had longer defensive CDs than offensive ones.
Why?
Prefering offense over defense leads to people dying - which happens to be the desired outcome of pvp encounters.Edited by Derra on August 28, 2017 7:55PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just hear that this defending ult is to strong or that, but nobody interested for other options. Why play many templar and Dk very defensive? Because they need to! Its really hard to make burstdamage like other classes, which dont have trouble to use just offensive ultimates! As Templar or DK you need your ultimate for defense against all this [snip]!
Then put those ultimates on the respective classes (not that DK does not have a great defensive ulti - but it pales in comparison to resto).
Putting them on universal skilllines leads to classes not needing them using them
We should have many more skills/ultimates for diversity.. And we should have access without a special weapontype. I never was a fan from classes, in the traditional Morrowind we had just races and everything could learned from everybody..
I dont like the way this game is actually going (offensive > defensive). I want tactical gameplay and not just kills like in counterstrike.. When this game just give rewards for that guys, who are able to oneshot the enemies, i will make my next break.
There are just few skills and ultimates against this evolution of the game..
So again, pls dont destroy the only way for tactical fights... Else Sorcs and nightblades will go superior again, because of the most possible burst with cc...
Defense is stronger than offense.
Offense is cheaper than defense (even figuring in their potency).
That´s the way the game works for normal abilities.
Defensive ultimates are cheaper than offensive ones and stronger than offensive ones.
Can you see the error in that?
Offense needs to be > than defense. It´s a pvp game. You want people to die. Nothing about people not dying is tactical. Nothing about channeling heavyattacks while restoulting is tactical. That´s asinine gameplay - because everyone doing it knows damn well they can go on with that until their opponents get bored or help arrives.
[Edited for removed quote]Edited by ZOS_Mika on August 30, 2017 2:58PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭The main iusse people fail to see is: With a Healing ultimate i can be zerged down, but i won't die. Even if 4 people are hitting on me. Any other ultimate doesn't do this. Even the templar even ultimate (which got a nerf) can't do this. So. It's overperforming. A sorc with shields when he gets low can't just negate all my damage in a click. With a ceap ultimate. A templar in heavy can't just stay alive forever, becouse of this ultimate. It's just broken, who fails to admit it probably fails at the game.
Corrosive Armor.......
.XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭The main iusse people fail to see is: With a Healing ultimate i can be zerged down, but i won't die. Even if 4 people are hitting on me. Any other ultimate doesn't do this. Even the templar even ultimate (which got a nerf) can't do this. So. It's overperforming. A sorc with shields when he gets low can't just negate all my damage in a click. With a ceap ultimate. A templar in heavy can't just stay alive forever, becouse of this ultimate. It's just broken, who fails to admit it probably fails at the game.
Corrosive Armor.......
.
Corrosive armor doesn't heal you. You can still be damaged. It costs the double of resto ulti. You can't use it for your friends. The dot is so little you won't ever use it for itI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The main iusse people fail to see is: With a Healing ultimate i can be zerged down, but i won't die. Even if 4 people are hitting on me. Any other ultimate doesn't do this. Even the templar even ultimate (which got a nerf) can't do this. So. It's overperforming. A sorc with shields when he gets low can't just negate all my damage in a click. With a ceap ultimate. A templar in heavy can't just stay alive forever, becouse of this ultimate. It's just broken, who fails to admit it probably fails at the game.
Corrosive Armor.......
.
That´s actually the perfect example for a balanced defensive ultimate.
Ironically no DK is using corrosive anymore because resto and 1h+shield are so much better - because they do more for half the cost. YAY BALANCE.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭The main iusse people fail to see is: With a Healing ultimate i can be zerged down, but i won't die. Even if 4 people are hitting on me. Any other ultimate doesn't do this. Even the templar even ultimate (which got a nerf) can't do this. So. It's overperforming. A sorc with shields when he gets low can't just negate all my damage in a click. With a ceap ultimate. A templar in heavy can't just stay alive forever, becouse of this ultimate. It's just broken, who fails to admit it probably fails at the game.
Corrosive Armor.......
.
Corrosive armor doesn't heal you. You can still be damaged. It costs the double of resto ulti. You can't use it for your friends. The dot is so little you won't ever use it for it
yeah it does heal igneous sheild> corrosive will be a 10k heal.
Magma shell gives a 50% sheild to your teammate. and your OP never mentioned any teammate, you were talking about yourself. 10+ ppl hitting on me with is up and I won't die....it cost twice as much yeah but it also lasts over twice as long nearly three times as long if you run Elfs bane
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭The main iusse people fail to see is: With a Healing ultimate i can be zerged down, but i won't die. Even if 4 people are hitting on me. Any other ultimate doesn't do this. Even the templar even ultimate (which got a nerf) can't do this. So. It's overperforming. A sorc with shields when he gets low can't just negate all my damage in a click. With a ceap ultimate. A templar in heavy can't just stay alive forever, becouse of this ultimate. It's just broken, who fails to admit it probably fails at the game.
Corrosive Armor.......
.
Corrosive armor doesn't heal you. You can still be damaged. It costs the double of resto ulti. You can't use it for your friends. The dot is so little you won't ever use it for it
yeah it does heal igneous sheild> corrosive will be a 10k heal.
Magma shell gives a 50% sheild to your teammate. and your OP never mentioned any teammate, you were talking about yourself. 10+ ppl hitting on me with is up and I won't die....it cost twice as much yeah but it also lasts over twice as long nearly three times as long if you run Elfs bane
The heal is from battle roar, which is a passive. You recive it even from resto ulti as dk
Magma shell is so *** everything else is better. The shield on allies is ok. Magma shell per se is 200 of cost and doesn't work well. You won't retaliate using it. What you do with resto ultiI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@Derra defensive ults should be cheaper than offensive ults. Cheaper defensive ults are counters to Offensive ones. If they become more expensive than offensive ults, the TTk decreases and EoTs etc have even less counter play.
You should be able to Panacea against EotS reliably and consistently
No game i´ve ever played had cheaper defense than offense (and eso didn´t either up until resto 1hshield and wardenult got introduced). Cooldown based games had longer defensive CDs than offensive ones.
Why?
Prefering offense over defense leads to people dying - which happens to be the desired outcome of pvp encounters.
I completely disagree, the fact people have such a short TTK is the LEADING complaint of this game, and is almost always the reason for a nerf. FAR more offensive oriented abilities and sets have been nerfed over defensive ones.
Most games have more costly defensive abilities because their TTK is long already, in this game TTK is WAY shorter than any other. TTK needs to be increased in this game not shortened.2
