Curiosity Killed the..whatever. ZOS, teach people how to play

kylewwefan · August 2017

Against better judgement, I joined a pug trial yesterday.

Look to the right: Crit rush, wrecking blow executioner.

Look to the left: molten arms, bow light attack, lethal arrow...over and over

Going to assume these strategies have been working well to carry these <500 cp players through all the rest of the game. They've got no clue their combat is ineffective in this environment.

The games teaching system have failed these players miserably. To my surprise, they were both stormproof.

I suppose it's possible they were bought or shared accounts. Who knows

DMuehlhausen · August 2017

Question? Did you, in a good way, try to help them out? If now then you are the failing training system. Go back through all the MMOs and it wasn't a system that was put in a place, or the level of difficulty it was other players that helped people learn how to play.

Even back to my earliest days in EQ. I logged in the first day and struggled to find the way out of a town, this was before minimaps and add ons. I asked out in zone chat where to go. Got like 30 helpful replies. Couple of them even grouped with me and showed me around the town where everything is. That was nearly 25 years ago and we still talk today. If I did that in a new game today...I'd be threaten my first born would be sacrificed and I'd probably be put on every single ignore list of people that saw me ask for help.

You want more people able to do content and do it correctly, people need to help teach each other and not just disband call them noobs and never do a PuG again. I got into a PuG for vWTG once, before I had ever done it. It was with 3 people from an obvious raiding guild. I had no idea what I was doing on some fights. They didn't kick me, they invited me to the chat, walked me through everything and we only had a couple more deaths after that, most of which weren't even my fault as the healer. Now I know how to do the fights and I pass that knowledge along to anybody else who needs the help in hopes they will pay it forward and increase the number of people that know how to do the dungeon.

Waffennacht · August 2017

There is so much to have to teach a player or a trial.

AC
Rotation
Mechanics
Synergies
Etc etc

I don't see someone having the time to help a PuG figure out a trial during a trial lol.

ESO tutorial: "Block, Bash, Light and Heavy Attack, Welcome to ESO, Figure it Out B@#$&"

FloppyTouch · August 2017

Agreed, part of every mmo I ever played was players helping players. The devs gave us the game up to us to figure it out. No need to hold our hands being better at this game is just a message away.

kylewwefan · August 2017

I've no idea how to play a StamPlar or StamDK. How do you nicely tell someone that it's not working and they should google or something. I don't need to get all that hate. You know it's coming. Don't tell me how to play my game you old man.

They'll get advice from some 1vx or expert ganker. Then wander why impregnate and clever alchemist vicious death is crap in dungeons and trials.

ProfesseurFreder · August 2017

You know what? How about you focus on your OWN business, play the way you want to play, and stop being so judgmental of how others play? Not everyone has to play your way.

idk · August 2017

Have yet to see a game that teaches players what really needs to be done.

Reason why is those that designed the game are far from the experts at combat, tanking or healing for both PvE and PvP. Having Zos "teach" new players how to play would be a pitiful experiment in failure. It would make things worse for the new player.

Besides. I respect different choices some players make, which is part of the design for the game. Of course that doesn't mean I will bring them into a vet trial.

FoolishHuman · August 2017

It would be pretty bad if the game would advertise a certain playstyle as "the best". I mean, should all the skills that are not used in popular builds just be greyed out in the interface? Non-optimal weapons not equipable anymore?

SASQUATCH0 · August 2017

I can somewhat agree. Did a pug run on tempest last night with a cp 52 and a level 13. Only attack I saw the level 13 was heavy attacks. Tried to help but the person never responded.

TequilaFire · August 2017

Why I don't do trials, if your not a sorc you are not welcome.

Magdalina · August 2017

That argument gets defeated by existence of group content. Just saying.

Simit · August 2017

PUG no matter the mmo has nigh always been the same, get used to it an try help ppl by offering advice or just grp with guild.

It really is simple, if you dont like the way others play dont pug, there is no reason to come here an cry about how "bad" others are while flexing your epeen about your own imaginary greatness.

Keep_Door · August 2017

If i am in a dungeon or trial and someone is spamming light attacks and we wipe over and over it becomes my business.

IlCanis_LupuslI · August 2017

If id get 1 Gold Everytime i try help helping s newbie and get that answer id be very rich by now lmao. I don't bother, just leave the group and send him a offer, if he notices he sucks and asks good, if not, his problem im not going 2 carry him on any harder content with a crappy build :-(

SydneyGrey · August 2017

You should join a guild group that specifically does trials and dungeons.
If you join a PUG, you KNOW there will be players that are inexperienced or less than optimal.
I agree that the game needs some guide to help players, though.

theamazingx · August 2017

Not everyone has the free time to be bad.

kylewwefan · August 2017

How about a system that teaches you to buff up, drop 2~3 Damage over times abilities and heavy attacks to get a minimum required output.

You don't know me. Jk.

I have very little epeen. I'm trying to get better. I realize my poor performance has and can hold a whole group back. Many player dont realize how poor their performance is. You'll never know in open world. Then you try to do something challenging and hmph. RIP.

max_only · August 2017

Pug trials?

Step 1: clear your schedule, don't schedule anything for the next morning or you'll be testy during that
Step 2: pour a tall one/ inhale deeply
Step 3: have favorite food on hand for banker/merchant breaks
Step 4: do your best, try not to die.

It is a trial. Court is rarely fun lol

Trashkan · August 2017

Imo trials have been lame lately and I think the o.p hit the nail on the head. ESO does not implement a help system for rotations and animation canceling leaving most strats for trials ineffective.Trials are not that hard when you have 12 players who move good together and actually show up on time and here's the key KNOW ALL THE MECHANICS. Shouldn't be that way when trials first dropped they were hard but could be pugged now days good luck with that. End game guilds still had leaderboards and hard modes to keep them entertained now it's just beating the trial it most cases.

DMuehlhausen · August 2017

There you go embrace the the reason why PuGs can be so bad in this game. Sure play the way you want, but at the same time light attacking with a bow, if that is your style, doesn't work in a Trial.

So while people need to be more helpful in this game, others need to stop thinking every skill or, just light attacking is viable for DPS in a vet dungeon or trial, cause yeah it's not.

RANKK7 · August 2017

This game is lacking any kind of tutorial and the worst thing are the tooltips that make things even more difficult for newcomers, vague as hell since there is no explanation, I remember reading them at first and getting very confused about all kind of damage like the direct one or the magic one, physical and spell resistance can be mistakenly related to shields too. There is no explanation whatsoever.

The character tab as well should be way more complete and explanatory, I had to download an addon to see my spell and physical pen, this is just ridiculous.

A sort of appendix (like an expanded glossary) would be needed in one tab where any kind of damage, how mitigation works and penetration are clearly explained along with anything else. Of course to be updated once significant changes are made.

New players must heavily rely on users personal websites and posts (having the time and the will to do so, not everyone have have the time or the will to check the forums and external websites, learning from an in-game section something about how the game works seems to me pretty logical and something that definitely should be present).

Feanor · August 2017

You know what? How about you play SOLO then where your performance doesn't matter to anyone but YOURSELF?

BrightOblivion · August 2017

What addon are you using to show your penetration values? Been trying to find a good one for awhile now.

zaria · August 2017

This, add another issue, low level player are only doing LA, he do normal dungeons, he get in with an lvl 40 alts with crafted sets and know how to play, an cp190 farming some set and an cp400 doing quest on his warden.
the level 13 learn nothing.
Somethings he do dungeons with other LA and they fails but mostly he is carried.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2017

I only see one possible solution. Time to make dungeons and trials balanced around dps only light attacking. It has worked to boost players on quest content.

Rainraven · August 2017

It's not being mean or insulting to note that something works or it doesn't work.

It's a nice idea to leave people to play as they want and not scrutinize, but do you think the guy spamming light attacks and dying over and over again is having a lot of fun? It doesn't just suck for the group that has to find a way to deal with him, it sucks for him too. Figuring out how to get some information across without a million personalized, spontaneous lessons would be kinder than just leaving him to flail.

OC_Justice · August 2017

Everything one needs to learn to play the game is already in the game. Descriptions of skills, tutorials as you level and encounter new objects. Tutorials on becoming better and on excellence and strategy already exists and they are developed by players and the people who want to achieve excellence and are kind enough to pass it on.
What the OP wants is for everyone to "have" to learn to play serious.
What the OP isn't taking into account is that there are thousands upon thousands of people playing this game, some might even say millions and with that comes thousands upon thousands of personalities. Guess what, not all of them want to be the best of the best of the best. Some don't even want to be mediocre and no amount of whining and complaining about random dungeon pugs is going to change the people that just don't take video games serious. Being a jerk will not change them, writing countless posts about bad players will not change therm and kicking people from pugs will not change them.

I have run WGT with a pug and cleared it. Earlier this week I ran it with a pug, we couldn't get past the 1st boss. It happens and oh well. I said, "hey guys it doesn't look like it is going to happen thanks for group, but I got to bail I have real life calling."

You know there are the casual chess players too. Just because one is not Gerry Kasparov or Magnus Carlsen, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to play a game of chess in the park.

If you are going to join a pug, don't come crying on the forums complaining about pugs.
If you have a problem with pugs, don't join them.

kylewwefan · August 2017

That just totally misses the point. High end players; maybe elite. Well anyways they're pushing the ceiling astronomical high. And that is good for them. The regular and casual that don't have such great skill are falling way between the cracks.

Many think they're doing good, have more like a street fighter combo than a repeatable rotation. I have rotation but executed poorly doesn't yield very much. I'm getting better though.

Game performance in dungeons/ trials also majorly affects the rotation yields. Then gear and CP. they're all over the place.

The game is so incredibly Damage centric at higher levels, but doesn't really teach you how to get there. That's what it desperately needs. Play style adaptation. Hit skill 123 swap bar skill 123, heavy attack, heavy attack start over. Do it again.

It sounds lame, but could maybe help players get better or even güd.

OC_Justice · August 2017

One could say the same to you as well. If you are going complain about bad players, then play alone, then there is no one to complain about.

PlagueSD · August 2017

Did the boss die? Yes? Did anyone in group die? No? What's the problem?

Simit · August 2017

Zos could simply tweak a solo arena an much like in world of warcraft have bronze, silver and gold difficulty, upon entering u choose a roll, if you choose DD the arena via pop ups tells you you need to do 2 things, basically stay alive an kill what spawns, a healer gets a npc companion they need to keep alive and same with tank, you cannot enter normal dungeon unless completed bronze an silver for vet.

You would obviously base the scenarios on seeing if players can burst down target, stay out thr fire, keep agro, keep npc alive etc etc this is basic example .

Zos can only an should only do so much, end of the day it down to the player to want to learn and improve an us as a playerbase to encourage the growth.

But it 2017 an tbh ppl would rather ridicule, humiliate an bully players out grp content