Appearance Change: Does This System Punish The User?

Left4Daud · August 2017

Hello ZOS,

First I would like to say that I am very glad that this system exists in the game! It is obvious that a lot of care went into crafting the backdrop where you tweak your appearance and it is really quite nice.

However, as someone who has had to tweak my appearances multiple times across multiple characters I do feel taken advantage of by this system and I will try to explain why.

The Lighting - The lighting is very nice and even when tweaking your appearance with tokens. Unfortunately, not many places in game have this awesome lighting. Anyone who has spent hours creating their character in this game knows how drastically your appearance can change based on the lighting. Some tweaks/changes that look fantastic when altering appearance DO NOT TRANSLATE in game which can lead to burning multiple appearance tokens to get the change you are looking for.
The Static Preview - Again zooming in to your character and rotating them all works very nicely when tweaking appearance with tokens. However not being able to preview your character from differing z axis, in motion, with different expressions (from emotes or actions), in different poses (from weapon idles or non-equipped personalities, or previewed personalities) can cause one to have to spend multiple appearance tokens getting their character "just right."
The Static Options - I think it is very nice that you can preview your character in standard gear, champion gear, and whatever collectibles they are currently using. What if I want to preview how my character would look like as a Vampire though? Or in a costume/skin/personality they are not currently wearing? Being able to do these things would give the creator more knowledge on how their character will look in different circumstances and that is never a bad thing. It would be nice to preview your character with all collectibles on your account, and at least the vampirism skins since these can quite drastically change your appearance.

From a marketing standpoint, these tokens are great! I've had to "waste" plenty of tokens because I can't tell with absolute certainty that the changes I make in the interface will translate in game! I can't see how my character looks under various lighting, I can't compare their body type to NPCs so I have no real gauge on if they are too tall/short, I can't preview them with all my collectibles or see how they may look as a vampire. I can't observe my character in motion, or, I may make a change that looks great in the interface but looks nothing like what was previewed when actually rendered in game. I just think this system could be more user friendly while still being profitable.

The Solution: Before finalizing our changes and consuming our token, allow us to preview our character in a small "barbershop" instance. This way I can move my character around, I can see how they look OUTSIDE of the creation preview. I can see how they look in different emotes or collectibles. Allow me to see how my character looks as a vampire so I can see if those tattoos I like are worth keeping even if they are subtle/washed out. Let me get a real feel for my character before consuming my token and forcing me to possibly burn a handful of tokens just to get my character right! I love this feature, but I don't think I should feel like I am being punished because the system is so limiting in how you can view your character. You could otherwise make appearance changes work on a timer so lets say after I use the token on my character I can go back and freely make changes to that character for a small period of time. This in my opinion would make the system much better and work for the user instead of against them.

Anyways how do you feel about this system?

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Being able to preview my character in an "in game" instance would allow me to make a much more informed decision with my desired appearance changes and tweaks. In my opinion, the more freedom I have in being able to view my character the happier I will be with using this system.

So while I am thankful that this system exists, I do feel like it could be much more user friendly and I have suggested what could improve this system from my perspective. I may be the only one, but I have had to "waste" several appearance change tokens making very small changes to my character because what I was seeing in the interface WAS NOT TRANSLATING IN GAME. I am not complaining about the system or the fact that I had to keep buying/using tokens when really one could have sufficed. I am simply offering my ideas to see if maybe the system could be better, and I'm curious how other users on the forums feel about this.

idk · August 2017

@Left4Daud

Are you on console?

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Left4Daud

Are you on console?

I play on both PC and console. Mostly PC. Why?

idk · August 2017

Left4Daud wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Left4Daud

Are you on console?

I play on both PC and console. Mostly PC. Why?

On PC there is a means to check appearance changes without using a token.

When your characters are copied onto the PTS (which is always available) you can check things out there. Note the settings that you like then make the changes on PTS.

Easy

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

On PC there is a means to check appearance changes without using a token.

When your characters are copied onto the PTS (which is always available) you can check things out there. Note the settings that you like then make the changes on PTS.

Easy

I wasn't aware of that so thank you for posting. I may give this a try in the future. However, I do still think the appearance change system could be more user friendly since PTS access isn't universal. While I haven't used the PTS I have created/deleted and re-created characters using how they look in the creation preview and in game as a guide for getting them how I want on console. I have been sticking to the tokens for my established characters on PC, which works but only after I usually waste a token or two. So while there are these options available, they are a bit indirect and I personally would be much happier if the system offered more freedom/control in how you can preview your character.

Like I said in the OP, I don't feel like any of these changes would be a bad thing. Unless of course you want people to have to potentially use multiple tokens to get a desired result because view options are limited by design. Or have to consider buying tokens in the first place because how your character appears in the creation preview is almost NEVER how they appear in game.

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Anymore opinions/feedback on this?

theher0not · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

This should be enabled for creating a new character too. Have a instance with multiple different lighting zones and maybe some NPC so you can see how you look compared to them.

Nestor · August 2017

The simple solution should be to allow us to change our character's appearance for some set time after they are made. Like 30 or 60 minutes.

Unfortunately, that would eat into Crown Sales of Appearance change tokens, so we may never get that feature.

Eiagra · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

I would vote both 1 and 2 here. Better lighting really would be helpful, as the lighting in both initial creation and token use aren't that great. It would also be nice if there was a timer on being able to re-tweak appearance -- I have seen an "unlimited appearance change for x minutes" type token in another MMORPG, and it's not a terrible idea. That might be more dev time heavy to implement, however, so as nice as that would be, I don't see it coming up any time soon.

Taleof2Cities · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

I posted a thread back in May similar to yours in the Crown Store sub-forum ... which didn't get a lot of traction. Hopefully another thread will get ZOS moving on this issue.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4125388#Comment_4125388

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

theher0not wrote: »

This should be enabled for creating a new character too. Have a instance with multiple different lighting zones and maybe some NPC so you can see how you look compared to them.

Yeah, you kind of get that in the tutorial but the changes are already final at that point. And I'm not sure how things are in the Vvardenfell tutorial but Coldharbour is a terrible measuring stick for how your character will look in most of the game. The awful sharp blue lighting doesn't really allow you to observe the definition of your facial features. Also the fact that the first NPC you can measure your character against is the abnormally tall Lyris. I am totally a fan of games that let you re-examine your character after the tutorial, that's just good design right there.

Nestor wrote: »

The simple solution should be to allow us to change our character's appearance for some set time after they are made. Like 30 or 60 minutes.

Unfortunately, that would eat into Crown Sales of Appearance change tokens, so we may never get that feature.

Yep I kind of fear that, which is I why I brought up the marketing component in my initial post. I'd like to have more faith in ZOS and not believe they would intentionally gimp a system to push a component of the crown store but their track record on that issue doesn't inspire confidence in me as a consumer. Which is a bit sad, but I do feel like they could improve the system for the user while still being profitable.

Eiagra wrote: »

I would vote both 1 and 2 here. Better lighting really would be helpful, as the lighting in both initial creation and token use aren't that great. It would also be nice if there was a timer on being able to re-tweak appearance -- I have seen an "unlimited appearance change for x minutes" type token in another MMORPG, and it's not a terrible idea. That might be more dev time heavy to implement, however, so as nice as that would be, I don't see it coming up any time soon.

Personally I think the lighting when tweaking appearance is actually pretty nice. The problem is that lighting is close to non-existent in the game so there is a ton of room for things to get lost in translation. If the "barbershop instance" would take too much time and resources to implement I don't see why they couldn't make tokens work on a timer if they really wanted to...

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I posted a thread back in May similar to yours in the Crown Store sub-forum ... which didn't get a lot of traction. Hopefully another thread will get ZOS moving on this issue.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4125388#Comment_4125388

Thanks for posting that! I'm glad to see that this has been talked about on the forums before. I am thankful that there is a system to allow us to tweak appearance after creation but I do think the system could be improved from a user standpoint. Sadly I think the biggest problem keeping these changes from happening is that in improving the system for the user, they would not need to use the system as often or even at all. Therefore, the monetary aspect of the system would become less efficient and sadly I don't see that as a goal the company would consider pushing. But hey, we can dream right?

lasertooth · August 2017

Unfortunately the OP is right, the character you see in the preview window looks way different than the actual character in the game.

Instead of wasting multiple tokens i used 1 token and an extra character slot. I kept deleting and then re-creating an extra character and then would log in to see what the character looked like in the game. Once I had the facial features just right then I used the change appearance token on the test character but instead of making any changes I just took a screen shot of each of my settings with my phone and then canceled the change appearance (no token used) and then copied those changes exactly over to my main character.

I used up fewer "change appearance" tokens this way.

It's a small detail but it would be nice if the preview character screen matched up better with the in game appearance.

StormWylf · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Left4Daud wrote: »

Being able to preview my character in an "in game" instance would allow me to make a much more informed decision with my desired appearance changes and tweaks. In my opinion, the more freedom I have in being able to view my character the happier I will be with using this system.

So while I am thankful that this system exists, I do feel like it could be much more user friendly and I have suggested what could improve this system from my perspective. I may be the only one, but I have had to "waste" several appearance change tokens making very small changes to my character because what I was seeing in the interface WAS NOT TRANSLATING IN GAME. I am not complaining about the system or the fact that I had to keep buying/using tokens when really one could have sufficed. I am simply offering my ideas to see if maybe the system could be better, and I'm curious how other users on the forums feel about this.

Very well said, nothing to add.

ProfessorKittyhawk · August 2017

I'm surprised they haven't updated the character creation process to provide different settings with different lighting effects similar to the character creator in FFXIV.

phaneub17_ESO · August 2017

I figure its all about money, they intentionally give bad lighting in the character creation window and the appearance change window so those who are constantly trying to perfect their character's appearance will keep buying tokens until they get it exactly right. It's also why I think they won't give us "Vampire Appearance" in the creation window, you'll just have to see what you look like once you're out. Same applies to time limited sales on the crown store to attract impulsive buyers who don't want to miss out on something that won't be available later on.

Reverb · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

We've said all along that the character creation doesn't accurately represent what a toon looks like in the game. This is unfortunately true for appearance changes as well. It would be great if you could preview your created or changed character in a game setting before committing.

msetten · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Another alternative would be to allow us to freely change our appearance in our homes and once we leave they fully apply.

red_emu · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

I would even be happy to be able to use emotes and personalities (ones I have already got in my collections) since a lot of personalities come with unique idle poses. And maybe some buttons for attack/weapon sheathe animations.

I am sure at some stage in the future there will be a graphical update of the original content with new character textures so maybe implement a few changes to the character creator as well? We'll wait and see.

theher0not · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Left4Daud wrote: »

theher0not wrote: »

This should be enabled for creating a new character too. Have a instance with multiple different lighting zones and maybe some NPC so you can see how you look compared to them.

Yeah, you kind of get that in the tutorial but the changes are already final at that point. And I'm not sure how things are in the Vvardenfell tutorial but Coldharbour is a terrible measuring stick for how your character will look in most of the game. The awful sharp blue lighting doesn't really allow you to observe the definition of your facial features. Also the fact that the first NPC you can measure your character against is the abnormally tall Lyris. I am totally a fan of games that let you re-examine your character after the tutorial, that's just good design right there.

What has the tutorial to do with what I said? I suggested a way to allow us to see how our characters look in game before we finish creating them. So we don't have to use one of our limited deletes because it looks worse in game than in the creator

abigfishy · August 2017

Make tokens work on a timer so after consuming them I can freely make changes for a small amount of time.

Revelation Online gives you HOURS after you create your character to go back and edit their appearance. This is just sensible so you can see your character in a variety of situations and with a variety of gear. This should be the standard.

Everstorm · August 2017

Make tokens work on a timer so after consuming them I can freely make changes for a small amount of time.

theher0not wrote: »

This should be enabled for creating a new character too. Have a instance with multiple different lighting zones and maybe some NPC so you can see how you look compared to them.

This would be very handy for those times you think a lady with long hair goes well with two handed weapons... Clipping drama.

Annalyse · August 2017

Make tokens work on a timer so after consuming them I can freely make changes for a small amount of time.

The last game I played had "makeover scrolls" that lasted for one hour, so that you could play for a bit and see your character in different lights and make more changes if necessary. I like that idea.

They also need a time limit to make changes on a brand new character, for the same reason.

Megabear · August 2017

Make tokens work on a timer so after consuming them I can freely make changes for a small amount of time.

I agree. I have trashed so many characters before settling on each because what I see during creation is NOT what I get on his/her birth. I have deleted two leveled characters too, that was painful. I have never used a character token because it's clearly a rip off.

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

theher0not wrote: »

What has the tutorial to do with what I said? I suggested a way to allow us to see how our characters look in game before we finish creating them.

Being allowed and informed that you can change your character creation decisions AFTER an in game tutorial accomplishes just that. You can see your character in game, in combat, in collectibles, get a feel for how they look under different lighting and compared to different NPCs...you get a much better idea on if what you were going for was successful. If it WASN'T you would be given the chance to change these things BEFORE they become final...

I'm sorry but we're really saying that we want the same thing here.

Left4Daud · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

abigfishy wrote: »

Revelation Online gives you HOURS after you create your character to go back and edit their appearance. This is just sensible so you can see your character in a variety of situations and with a variety of gear. This should be the standard.

Annalyse wrote: »

The last game I played had "makeover scrolls" that lasted for one hour, so that you could play for a bit and see your character in different lights and make more changes if necessary. I like that idea.

They also need a time limit to make changes on a brand new character, for the same reason.

I agree that having a timer is a very sensible and fair option. Which now begs the question, are the character creation interface previews and appearance change tokens limited by design?

Why isn't there an in game counterpart to the style parlor? You can buy mounts with gold or crowns, houses with gold or crowns but you can only change appearance with crowns? It only starts to make sense to me if I imagine that the limitations in the system are intentionally kept in place to push the crown element.

Kanar · August 2017

Make tokens work on a timer so after consuming them I can freely make changes for a small amount of time.

I don't use these tokens but understand the complaint. I think best solution would be to just allow you a time window where you can change appearance for free after using a token.

xaraan · August 2017

Only thing I'd like to see is the ability to turn off Vampirism on the creation screen.

If there is a way, I missed it.

But when I did one on a vamp character I couldn't see his skin color. This might not matter much on some races, but on beast races with the skin color and patterns varying greatly, I have no idea what the original color of my argonian was until I got back into the game and put on a disguise.

I mean, it's fine, I'm gonna stay vamp on him, so in this situation it didn't hurt me much. But sucked I spent money and couldn't tell what his base color was without having the ability to see the future and know to cure myself or jump through some random fix to show it in the creation screen.

jcaceresw · August 2017

Allow us to preview our characters in a small "barbershop" instance before consuming the token.

Not just a barbershop but on a open sunny place too. Interiors use a specific lightning while the outside is another one.

Sheyta · August 2017

Other.

Here is my idea let us recreate for free or let us clone or save apperiance as in final fantasy

Prof_Bawbag · August 2017

The premium tokens, at the very least, should have at least a one hour timer on it.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Appearance Change: Does This System Punish The User?

Appearance Change: Does This System Punish The User? 109 votes