A counter criticism of 1vxers

DeHei · August 2017

Nobody, who is running solo should whine about get zerged. When you run solo, you will like to find that situations to beat some random smallscale groups, but the normality is that you can fight 2-3 until the rest of the group arrives you.
I only find this "good" situations for 1vs2 or 1vs3 in IC at this time, but not anymore in cyrodiil.... The feeling is much more to get zerged, but all soloplayer need to accept this actually.

The common cyrodiil map is just much zerging.. There are just some good smalescaleteams, which try to counter that zergs. Soloplaying is nearly not possible on the good populated campaings.

I think that will change again in future. When this new player become better and get more experience, they will try to run solo too. Soloplaying is really fun, can i say. Doesnt matter if you are zerged or not, i like allways to have a good fight

Pastas · August 2017

scrobey wrote: »

I don't whine when I'm zerged down, I find it funny how far a group of 10 will chase one person to be honest.

Yeah, I really enjoy when 10+ people is chasing me. It is really fun too when they drop 3-4 ultis to kill a single player

theamazingx · August 2017

wahoozie wrote: »

I think I'm lost on the point of this thread

OP got killed by a solo player while zerging and is upset about it.

SASQUATCH0 · August 2017

I've done solo, small group, zerging; I've seen it all. At the end of the day it's all about what is fun for you. Has anyone in here actually try to lead a Zerg and change the map? There's only a few leaders Xbox Na that know how to properly run a zerg and I got respect for them. At the same time I got respect for the player going solo and 1vXing noobs.

Countcalorie · August 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

zergs are bad, zergs this, zergs that....blah blah blah ;-)

Small group porponents (1vxer elitists!) who like to 1vx are just folks who can cheese (take advantage of mechanics) the best and dislike that NUMBERS > Abuse of Mechanics. In its own way, zerging has risen to counter the fact that 1 shield stacking, talon spamming, spear chucking, mass hysteria casting can beat 10 casual players.

Consider the progression;
1 guy running circles around a tree has got the attention of random casual player going to attack a castle.

casual player peels from group to get murdered by the 1vxer.

casaul player calls for help (it starts!)

1vxer wins again and continues to win until...

the call for help reaches such proportion that the 1vxer is finally killed...

And so mad that they come to the forums complaining about (insert skill here) and that it needs to be nerfed and zerglings are skill-less potatoes. (not realizing they were superior in skill and experience and mechanic knowledge in the first place...but its not enough, they need MORE power to dominate.)

well, whatcha think?

Has it ever occured to you that most solo players would never label themselves as 1vXers but are just seasoned PvPers who like to roam solo? Why putting people in categories? This whole "us" (poor casual butterflies) versus "them" (angry sociopathic 1vXers) thingy is something you create in your mind to feel better... about what? Wouldn't it be far more interesting and revealing to do some research on your own behavior and why you feel the need to react that way? Pretty sure you would be pretty chill about that issue afterwards.

I am pretty casual, too. But no matter how bad I was I would always choose to go solo over grouping up, because the process of becoming a better player is the most fun for me in gaming and grouping up is not helping in that regard. It is a fact though, that 90% of the people rolling in bigger groups (at least on my server PC EU) don't even try to go out there solo, take the losses, learn from it and finally become a better player.

Thats what makes a potato a potato - the unwillingness to learn how to pvp, instead compensating with numbers and still pointing fingers, labeling people - desperately trying to blame someone for never being brave enough to discover their own pvp capabilities.

Here am I the only dude who runs solo cause I lag out in any group bigger then two

Wreuntzylla · August 2017

MercyKilling wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

legitimate exploitation of mechanics.

There is no such thing. Exploitation is the very definition of cheating.

Well, then I guess that the ZoS vanilla interface combat tip that commands me to "exploit" is telling me to cheat!

Good to know for the future.

Wreuntzylla · August 2017

WhiteMage wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The "meta" also exploits holes in ZoS' scheme, and the result is that there are very few options if you want to remain competitive. It's a side effect of ESO being completely changed at least once a year and balance patches that go way overboard.

In any event, there is a solid argument for balancing under an imperfect balance scheme. I'll see if I can find the video of the guy explaining the philosophy. ZoS uses a rock/paper/scisors version, ostensibly because it's much easier to make changes. If you are being 1vx'd, and you want to obliterate that player, find the rock to their scissors. One thing I can give ZoS positive credit for is a continuous effort to have a counter for everything.

I am more interested in ZoS addressing cheating than legitimate exploitation of mechanics.

I believe you are completely wrong in the bolded portion, and then further wrong about the entire paragraph it lies in. ZOS does not use rps balancing, and zergs>1vXers>casuals does not constitute a rps situation.

Also, @badmojo standing and fighting in an outnumbered situation is a good way to get yourself killed.

I'm all ears. What mechanic can't be countered?

Malmai · August 2017

generalmyrick wrote: »

zergs are bad, zergs this, zergs that....blah blah blah ;-)

Small group porponents (1vxer elitists!) who like to 1vx are just folks who can cheese (take advantage of mechanics) the best and dislike that NUMBERS > Abuse of Mechanics. In its own way, zerging has risen to counter the fact that 1 shield stacking, talon spamming, spear chucking, mass hysteria casting can beat 10 casual players.

Consider the progression;
1 guy running circles around a tree has got the attention of random casual player going to attack a castle.

casual player peels from group to get murdered by the 1vxer.

casaul player calls for help (it starts!)

1vxer wins again and continues to win until...

the call for help reaches such proportion that the 1vxer is finally killed...

And so mad that they come to the forums complaining about (insert skill here) and that it needs to be nerfed and zerglings are skill-less potatoes. (not realizing they were superior in skill and experience and mechanic knowledge in the first place...but its not enough, they need MORE power to dominate.)

well, whatcha think?

I think we need to nerf Mag Sorcs!

generalmyrick · August 2017

SASQUATCH0 wrote: »

I've done solo, small group, zerging; I've seen it all. At the end of the day it's all about what is fun for you. Has anyone in here actually try to lead a Zerg and change the map? There's only a few leaders Xbox Na that know how to properly run a zerg and I got respect for them. At the same time I got respect for the player going solo and 1vXing noobs.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

br0steen · August 2017

generalmyrick wrote: »

zergs are bad, zergs this, zergs that....blah blah blah ;-)

Small group porponents (1vxer elitists!) who like to 1vx are just folks who can cheese (take advantage of mechanics) the best and dislike that NUMBERS > Abuse of Mechanics. In its own way, zerging has risen to counter the fact that 1 shield stacking, talon spamming, spear chucking, mass hysteria casting can beat 10 casual players.

Consider the progression;
1 guy running circles around a tree has got the attention of random casual player going to attack a castle.

casual player peels from group to get murdered by the 1vxer.

casaul player calls for help (it starts!)

1vxer wins again and continues to win until...

the call for help reaches such proportion that the 1vxer is finally killed...

And so mad that they come to the forums complaining about (insert skill here) and that it needs to be nerfed and zerglings are skill-less potatoes. (not realizing they were superior in skill and experience and mechanic knowledge in the first place...but its not enough, they need MORE power to dominate.)

well, whatcha think?

Sounds like you get 1vXed alot

generalmyrick · August 2017

br0steen wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

zergs are bad, zergs this, zergs that....blah blah blah ;-)

Small group porponents (1vxer elitists!) who like to 1vx are just folks who can cheese (take advantage of mechanics) the best and dislike that NUMBERS > Abuse of Mechanics. In its own way, zerging has risen to counter the fact that 1 shield stacking, talon spamming, spear chucking, mass hysteria casting can beat 10 casual players.

Consider the progression;
1 guy running circles around a tree has got the attention of random casual player going to attack a castle.

casual player peels from group to get murdered by the 1vxer.

casaul player calls for help (it starts!)

1vxer wins again and continues to win until...

the call for help reaches such proportion that the 1vxer is finally killed...

And so mad that they come to the forums complaining about (insert skill here) and that it needs to be nerfed and zerglings are skill-less potatoes. (not realizing they were superior in skill and experience and mechanic knowledge in the first place...but its not enough, they need MORE power to dominate.)

well, whatcha think?

Sounds like you get 1vXed alot

hands down! how'd you know? i think i actually die 20 times to 1 kill? how do i git gud, elite master?

the_man_of_steal · August 2017

People don't complain about 1vXing... they complain about zergs because in PVP today the biggest zerg always wins by lagging the server out so much that numbers will always win regardless of skill. This issue actually doesn't affect the wise solo player because he or she will not fight in the middle of a freaking zerg. It affects way more small group play of 2-6 man groups.

Subversus · August 2017

The problem isn't really the fact that zergs can kill me; I'm fine with that. The problem lies in the fact that zergs spamming eye of the storm are killing the servers.

And regarding that "abusing broken builds" statement, it's plain wrong. I play with 2 skoria 5 shackle 3 willpower on my magblade and 5 shackle 5 alteration mastery on my sorc and I can 1vX on both. What's broken on them, can you explain to me? Only reason I can 1vX is because the enemies are BAD, not because my build is some secret exploit.

Waffennacht · August 2017

.

generalmyrick wrote: »

br0steen wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

zergs are bad, zergs this, zergs that....blah blah blah ;-)

Small group porponents (1vxer elitists!) who like to 1vx are just folks who can cheese (take advantage of mechanics) the best and dislike that NUMBERS > Abuse of Mechanics. In its own way, zerging has risen to counter the fact that 1 shield stacking, talon spamming, spear chucking, mass hysteria casting can beat 10 casual players.

Consider the progression;
1 guy running circles around a tree has got the attention of random casual player going to attack a castle.

casual player peels from group to get murdered by the 1vxer.

casaul player calls for help (it starts!)

1vxer wins again and continues to win until...

the call for help reaches such proportion that the 1vxer is finally killed...

And so mad that they come to the forums complaining about (insert skill here) and that it needs to be nerfed and zerglings are skill-less potatoes. (not realizing they were superior in skill and experience and mechanic knowledge in the first place...but its not enough, they need MORE power to dominate.)

well, whatcha think?

Sounds like you get 1vXed alot

hands down! how'd you know? i think i actually die 20 times to 1 kill? how do i git gud, elite master?

Read some guides. I suggest mine, The Shepherd of the Frozen Valley. It's in my link

WhiteMage · August 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The "meta" also exploits holes in ZoS' scheme, and the result is that there are very few options if you want to remain competitive. It's a side effect of ESO being completely changed at least once a year and balance patches that go way overboard.

In any event, there is a solid argument for balancing under an imperfect balance scheme. I'll see if I can find the video of the guy explaining the philosophy. ZoS uses a rock/paper/scisors version, ostensibly because it's much easier to make changes. If you are being 1vx'd, and you want to obliterate that player, find the rock to their scissors. One thing I can give ZoS positive credit for is a continuous effort to have a counter for everything.

I am more interested in ZoS addressing cheating than legitimate exploitation of mechanics.

I believe you are completely wrong in the bolded portion, and then further wrong about the entire paragraph it lies in. ZOS does not use rps balancing, and zergs>1vXers>casuals does not constitute a rps situation.

Also, badmojo standing and fighting in an outnumbered situation is a good way to get yourself killed.

I'm all ears. What mechanic can't be countered?

It's not about counters existing, it's about how powerful and effective those counters are. ESO is all over the place with counters. The best one is channeled attacks. Channeled attacks cannot be dodged, but then are punishable when used improperly by bashing, which inflicts a stun. Perhaps the worst example is evasion, which grants a passive dodge chance that has no passive offensive counter and is not punishable. Blocking has a very lousy attempt at a counter in oblivion damage and cost poisons but those have far less stopping power than a true RPS-style counter.

EDIT: Removed poor badmojo from the quote so he doesn't keep getting notified for this.