Hotr Mag Sorc PVP meta?

MonoAlv96 · August 2017

Hello,i am wondering what will sorcs run right now for cp and no cp.Im currently running 5spinner/5lich/2eg,might just leave it like that and switch sharp for precise but I don't know if its gonna be BiS,i was thinking shackle/amber combo without sharp will have no dmg, idk..im really confused on what to build right now.Any help would be appreciated!

PD:I play no-cp

Biro123 · August 2017

All in the same boat.

Its gonna take some time/experimentation to figure out what works for you.

Hutch679 · August 2017

Torugs pact, infused inferno staff with oblivion enchant, and spinners. 1 Domihaus helm. 2 magic recovery glyphs. 1 spell damage glyph.

Araviel2 · August 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

Torugs pact, infused inferno staff with oblivion enchant, and spinners. 1 Domihaus helm. 2 magic recovery glyphs. 1 spell damage glyph.

Oblivion enchants have poor synergy with spinners, they also can't crit which hurts your burst.
This configuration also means you have spinners on the backbar where it does almost nothing.
Optimal build combo for Spinners now i think is mainly when you have a backbar set like lich and 2 monster pieces with damage effects, such as grothar/infernal that you want to boost with the extra penetration.
and if you are not using proc sets then i believe we can get more balance by using our gear to build for other stats and getting our penetration from other sources to compensate for the lack of sharpen weapons, at least this is true when making a build using 660 champion points.

I personally think a good Torugs destro build is best built with another 2 bar set, ideally a sustain set such as amberplasm/desert rose as that allows you to fetch more from spell damage glyphs/mundos stones.

try this for example -
1 Domihaus, 5 Torugs/5 Desert. 6 max magica, 1 large infused max health. (this allows for Ghastly eye balls instead of witchmothers)
2 spell damage glyphs, 1 magic recovery.
1 Infused Inferno with elemental glyph (whatever suits your racial best)
1 Infused Resto with spell power glyph.
Mundos - whatever floats your boat really, they are pretty well balanced now, but if you would pick the lower you can get the same penetration as you would of get from spinners with just a couple of divines.

Hutch679 · August 2017

Araviel2 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Torugs pact, infused inferno staff with oblivion enchant, and spinners. 1 Domihaus helm. 2 magic recovery glyphs. 1 spell damage glyph.

Oblivion enchants have poor synergy with spinners, they also can't crit which hurts your burst.
This configuration also means you have spinners on the backbar where it does almost nothing.
Optimal build combo for Spinners now i think is mainly when you have a backbar set like lich and 2 monster pieces with damage effects, such as grothar/infernal that you want to boost with the extra penetration.
and if you are not using proc sets then i believe we can get more balance by using our gear to build for other stats and getting our penetration from other sources to compensate for the lack of sharpen weapons, at least this is true when making a build using 660 champion points.

I personally think a good Torugs destro build is best built with another 2 bar set, ideally a sustain set such as amberplasm/desert rose as that allows you to fetch more from spell damage glyphs/mundos stones.

try this for example -
1 Domihaus, 5 Torugs/5 Desert. 6 max magica, 1 large infused max health. (this allows for Ghastly eye balls instead of witchmothers)
2 spell damage glyphs, 1 magic recovery.
1 Infused Inferno with elemental glyph (whatever suits your racial best)
1 Infused Resto with spell power glyph.
Mundos - whatever floats your boat really, they are pretty well balanced now, but if you would pick the lower you can get the same penetration as you would of get from spinners with just a couple of divines.

Run a master resto on back bar. There is no reason to farm or buy a spinner resto and I never suggested as such. You mentioned oblivion enchants not going well with spinners, although it's there because of torugs pact not because of spinners. Go read the pts forum or better yet, test the oblivion enchant on torugs pacts lol. Don't forget that max magic is necessary to gain high enough wards to protect you. Spinners gives 2 max magic bonuses, and amber plasm gives you 0. This isn't a critical build so your point about saying "it can't crit" is moot. Lich is very underwhelming, torugs isn't enough damage on its own to kill anyone with an all out resource set like lich. And desert rose on a sorc? Get outta here lol.

Edited for spelling. Stupid autocorrect.

Araviel2 · August 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Torugs pact, infused inferno staff with oblivion enchant, and spinners. 1 Domihaus helm. 2 magic recovery glyphs. 1 spell damage glyph.

Oblivion enchants have poor synergy with spinners, they also can't crit which hurts your burst.
This configuration also means you have spinners on the backbar where it does almost nothing.
Optimal build combo for Spinners now i think is mainly when you have a backbar set like lich and 2 monster pieces with damage effects, such as grothar/infernal that you want to boost with the extra penetration.
and if you are not using proc sets then i believe we can get more balance by using our gear to build for other stats and getting our penetration from other sources to compensate for the lack of sharpen weapons, at least this is true when making a build using 660 champion points.

I personally think a good Torugs destro build is best built with another 2 bar set, ideally a sustain set such as amberplasm/desert rose as that allows you to fetch more from spell damage glyphs/mundos stones.

try this for example -
1 Domihaus, 5 Torugs/5 Desert. 6 max magica, 1 large infused max health. (this allows for Ghastly eye balls instead of witchmothers)
2 spell damage glyphs, 1 magic recovery.
1 Infused Inferno with elemental glyph (whatever suits your racial best)
1 Infused Resto with spell power glyph.
Mundos - whatever floats your boat really, they are pretty well balanced now, but if you would pick the lower you can get the same penetration as you would of get from spinners with just a couple of divines.

Run a master resto on back bar. There is no reason to farm or buy a spinner resto and I never suggested as such. You mentioned oblivion enchants not going well with spinners, although it's there because of torugs pact not because of spinners. Go read the pts forum or better yet, test the oblivion enchant on torugs pacts lol. Don't forget that max magic is necessary to gain high enough wards to protect you. Spinners gives 2 max magic bonuses, and amber plasm gives you 0. This isn't a critical build so your point about saying "it can't crit" is moot. Lich is very underwhelming, torugs isn't enough damage on its own to kill anyone with an all out resource set like lich. And desert rose on a sorc? Get outta here lol.

Edited for spelling. Stupid autocorrect.

i tested torugs with oblivion extensively, and to quote a friend "its poop".
since the nerf it hits just as hard as damage enchants of the lower tier on a torugs build with the trade in of being unresistable
other enchants both hit harder and can crit, and crits are not to be neglected on a sorc even if we do not build specifically for that, usually we still roll with 52% crit as most of us stack both major and minor prophecy and its essential in most cases if you want to bring someone down with a curse/pulse/frag/fury combo that at least one of the skills gets a crit.

I have to check up on what a master resto looks like on a torugs build, does it even affect the enchant at all?
even so im under the impression that its still not ideal.

and if your argument for spinners is that it contains 2 max magica bonuses then you kind of missed the point of why i chose to combine Torugs with Desert and Ghastly eye balls in my example.
Desert rose might seem very unorthodox on a sorc build, but its not exactly awful and it shares 2 otherwise useless traits with Torugs.
by combining them they suddenly go from useless to meaningful and allowing us to get more regen and max magica out of drinks, assuming you would run witchmothers otherwise.

Overall we end up in a build with nearly the same max magica as your Torugs/Spinner build, but with a ton more regen and a decent chunk of spell resistance as a bonus.

MonoAlv96 · August 2017

The thing is im not looking to rely and maximize enchants, its not my playstyle,in no cp I think spinners will be a must and I just don't like it.On cp idk really know, amber is getting nerfed,maybe dw nirnohed can be a thing 5jul/5shackle/2monster.
I am really confused on what to go for now, i just don't like to use sets that don't help me at all just to buff enchants.

Araviel2 · August 2017

MonoAlv96 wrote: »

The thing is im not looking to rely and maximize enchants, its not my playstyle,in no cp I think spinners will be a must and I just don't like it.On cp idk really know, amber is getting nerfed,maybe dw nirnohed can be a thing 5jul/5shackle/2monster.
I am really confused on what to go for now, i just don't like to use sets that don't help me at all just to buff enchants.

bis is what fits your playstyle ofc, and with the new balance i think thats more true than ever.
also i was not really saying that Torugs is bis, i was only questioning the Torugs/Oblivion/Spinner build as i see no synergy in that.

I think Spinners in nCP is really good, but not sure if its a must. we have the lover option too.
it all depends on how you like to build up your regen i guess.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

How do you slot 2x 5 piece crafted sets (julianos and shackle) with 2 piece monster?

jroc699_burr · August 2017

dual wield

thankyourat · August 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How do you slot 2x 5 piece crafted sets (julianos and shackle) with 2 piece monster?

You can't because crafted sets don't come in jewelry

DHale · August 2017

After reading every post above me I am relieved there will be no threats in Cyrodil. Carry on.

Araviel2 · August 2017

DHale wrote: »

After reading every post above me I am relieved there will be no threats in Cyrodil. Carry on.

*** off A-hole, you are not constructive.

back to topic -
for defensive/balanced nCP builds i think @Hexy has the best builds right now.
offensive builds i can't say for sure, but i like stacking spell power in nCP over magica, and then you generally get more by fetching your dmg from spell power enchants/mundos stones and using the armor for sustain rather than vice versa.

swarzenegger · August 2017

Non cp this patch is fine without lich/ or other magic regen if you take the atronoch mundus and dark conversion on back bar/overload bar.

I run 5 julio, 3 willpower jewelry (spell power enchant), the full slimecraw (heavy/medium). I now have 1 armor place without a set, so maybe I should replace my willpower with a full set on back bar but I really like the spell damage from willpower.

I still run the defending resto and sharpened fire staff, prob should go nirn/precise fire staff.
I really enjoy slimecraw because it gives a relayable dps increase of 8%. Other possible sets are : molag kena, it makes your Magicka go down to fast, but gives a bigger burst, illambris or infernal guardian both give a decent amount of extra burst, but you need to snare/stun them for hitting it. Or Pirate skeleton, penetration is nerfed so getting more defense will be harder to deal with (mostly on CP campaigns, or if you are a vampire, the 15% health reduction isn't really bothering for vampires

)

You could also run 5 spinner 5 julio 1 monster(with max magicka or magicka regen) with mundus and spell power jewelry. the spell pen from spinners might be more useful then the spell dmg from willpower and the 8% dps increase from slimecraw, but I haven't tried this out yet

Malamar1229 · August 2017

My build is working fine still, just a few minor tweaks. Changed out my max magicka piece for dom shoulders.
Builds in my YouTube link

Scyantific · August 2017

I've been running 5x Shadow Dancer 5x Shacklebreaker 1x Domihaus. Pretty damn effective build in noCP and BGs, tristat food puts me at around 43k-ish magicka, 17k stamina, 20k health on a Dunmer. Sharpened/Nirnhoned inferno staff on front bar, Infused resto staff on back bar with weapon damage enchant.

You could also swap out Shadow Dancer with either Necropotence and throw a vMA fire staff on your front bar and a random infused resto on your back bar. Or you can do Amberplasm, both sets are still very effective.

Credit to @Irylia for the Necro/Shackle setup.

bardx86 · August 2017

Scyantific wrote: »

I've been running 5x Shadow Dancer 5x Shacklebreaker 1x Domihaus. Pretty damn effective build in noCP and BGs, tristat food puts me at around 43k-ish magicka, 17k stamina, 20k health on a Dunmer. Sharpened/Nirnhoned inferno staff on front bar, Infused resto staff on back bar with weapon damage enchant.

You could also swap out Shadow Dancer with either Necropotence and throw a vMA fire staff on your front bar and a random infused resto on your back bar. Or you can do Amberplasm, both sets are still very effective.

Credit to @Irylia for the Necro/Shackle setup.

Not a bad build but it still doesn't look to out damage my current build.

Biro123 · August 2017

Necro/shackle IS a solid build. Was using it with 2-hander/bow for a while - just cos I can.

Biro123 · August 2017

Necro/shackle IS a solid build. Was using it with 2-hander/bow for a while - just cos I can.

Irylia · August 2017

bardx86 wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

I've been running 5x Shadow Dancer 5x Shacklebreaker 1x Domihaus. Pretty damn effective build in noCP and BGs, tristat food puts me at around 43k-ish magicka, 17k stamina, 20k health on a Dunmer. Sharpened/Nirnhoned inferno staff on front bar, Infused resto staff on back bar with weapon damage enchant.

You could also swap out Shadow Dancer with either Necropotence and throw a vMA fire staff on your front bar and a random infused resto on your back bar. Or you can do Amberplasm, both sets are still very effective.

Credit to @Irylia for the Necro/Shackle setup.

Not a bad build but it still doesn't look to out damage my current build.

What is your build

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Necro/shackle IS a solid build. Was using it with 2-hander/bow for a while - just cos I can.

@Biro123
You what? Is that some kind of hybrid or does the weekend take its toll on me?

Biro123 · August 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Necro/shackle IS a solid build. Was using it with 2-hander/bow for a while - just cos I can.

@Biro123
You what? Is that some kind of hybrid or does the weekend take its toll on me?

No, it does work.. It started as a DW/Resto build - but those sets needed the 5-piece active all the time, so the extra sword didn't really add to any set bonuses (downside = no monster set)..

I looked at the 2-hander passives and looked at the weapon dmg and found that a gold 2-hander gives 1 less spelldmg than 2 gold swords.. and the heavy-weapons passive does the same as twin blade and blunt..
So for this build, lost nothing by using a 2-hander. Now I never levelled it enough, but was toying on trying the 2-hander ulti with it.. Besides. 2-handers for magica sets are a LOT cheaper than 1-handers.. Bought the necropotence 2-hander for peanuts.

Now for the bow.. I was using the twilight matriarch for heals - so didn't use any of the resto abilities at all. I looked through the passives and found I wasn't really benefitting from any of those either.

So I thought bow.. free major expedition after dodging! That would be nice since I can't fit boundless on my bar. Ranged still to proc wpn-dmg enchant.. and again, cheap to buy.

Again, thought about trying the ballista ulti alongside a DW burst rotation - but didn't level bow enough..

Switched to infused desto now for the enchants - but may go back to it. That necropotence sword is HUGE and looks awesome!

Thogard · August 2017

Wouldn't ballista ultimate scale on magicka since it's an ultimate? I'm intrigued.

Betsararie · August 2017

Made some minor tweaks to my build still working very well after the update.

One thing I did is drop oblivion damage on the front bar, so ineffectual after the nerf and a waste of an enchant.

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Necro/shackle IS a solid build. Was using it with 2-hander/bow for a while - just cos I can.

@Biro123
You what? Is that some kind of hybrid or does the weekend take its toll on me?

No, it does work.. It started as a DW/Resto build - but those sets needed the 5-piece active all the time, so the extra sword didn't really add to any set bonuses (downside = no monster set)..

I looked at the 2-hander passives and looked at the weapon dmg and found that a gold 2-hander gives 1 less spelldmg than 2 gold swords.. and the heavy-weapons passive does the same as twin blade and blunt..
So for this build, lost nothing by using a 2-hander. Now I never levelled it enough, but was toying on trying the 2-hander ulti with it.. Besides. 2-handers for magica sets are a LOT cheaper than 1-handers.. Bought the necropotence 2-hander for peanuts.

Now for the bow.. I was using the twilight matriarch for heals - so didn't use any of the resto abilities at all. I looked through the passives and found I wasn't really benefitting from any of those either.

So I thought bow.. free major expedition after dodging! That would be nice since I can't fit boundless on my bar. Ranged still to proc wpn-dmg enchant.. and again, cheap to buy.

Again, thought about trying the ballista ulti alongside a DW burst rotation - but didn't level bow enough..

Switched to infused desto now for the enchants - but may go back to it. That necropotence sword is HUGE and looks awesome!

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

Thogard wrote: »

Wouldn't ballista ultimate scale on magicka since it's an ultimate? I'm intrigued.

It does scale with wathever resource and dmg attribute is higher. But it only takes physical penetration, weapon crit and the respective physical dmg CP into account. So you loose out a bit on dmg compared to a stamina build.

Betsararie · August 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

I've seen this run before.

I think it would work a lot better in Cyro than BGs, in all fairness. It is not something I have tried, but something that has intrigued me. If you could manage to get shock off your bar you would free up so much space and open up so many possibilities. But it is hard to eliminate shock, it is very effective.

Biro123 · August 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

Standard DW play, really. You don't lose on burst - in fact you gain it. - but you do lose on sustained pressure (which could make ballista a good addition, despite doing less dmg than a stam build would with it). Also a reason I've been trying a staff just for light attacks/glyph to give a bit of sustained pressure between bursts - but it just makes the pet run off too much... I HATE that change.

Betsararie · August 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

Standard DW play, really. You don't lose on burst - in fact you gain it

Your burst damage is actually higher with the dw/endless fury setup vs crushing shock? If so, is it by a significant amount?

I have seen a couple people running this and honestly, it has sparked my interest, but I have not felt inclination to switch. I do like the idea of eliminating crushing shock from the bar to free up space for other possibilities.

RadRzRg · August 2017

MonoAlv96 wrote: »

Hello,i am wondering what will sorcs run right now for cp and no cp.Im currently running 5spinner/5lich/2eg,might just leave it like that and switch sharp for precise but I don't know if its gonna be BiS,i was thinking shackle/amber combo without sharp will have no dmg, idk..im really confused on what to build right now.Any help would be appreciated!

PD:I play no-cp

The meta is Shieldbreaker. Every stamina class runs it. Sorcs are currently hiding/streaking away.

Biro123 · August 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

Standard DW play, really. You don't lose on burst - in fact you gain it

Your burst damage is actually higher with the dw/endless fury setup vs crushing shock? If so, is it by a significant amount?

I have seen a couple people running this and honestly, it has sparked my interest, but I have not felt inclination to switch. I do like the idea of eliminating crushing shock from the bar to free up space for other possibilities.

Honestly, the gap is getting smaller and smaller each patch as they make staff more and more attractive - and DW (often indirectly) less so.

It boils down to..:
1. DW (or 2-hander) has more base wpn/spell dmg than a staff
2. DW (or 2-hnader) sword passives increases damage too (but staves now get it too - at a slightly higher amount)
3. DW can give access to set combo's that staves can't
4. Losing CS makes your rotation much less resource-intense so you can spec less in sustain and more in raw dmg
5. Rotation (and bar) often has space to fit in a degeneration to empower your frag for more burst

The downside is that if the frag gets dodged/blocked, the burst only tickles - which happens much more often on PC imho than on console cos Miats. Well, there a few downsides, actually - but the burst IS higher - and its great at quickly taking down those who don't know how to avoid it. I just like the playstyle.

And the biggest advantage for me at the mo is that, since I run the twilight matriarch, using a staff (and therefore heavy attacks to add to the burst) always causes my passive pet to run off into the zerg and get killed... Doesn't happen with DW :-)

MonoAlv96 · August 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

That's interesting. So you use Wrath for a spammable? Doesn't that make you loose out a bit on burst without Force Pulse? However, that's very insightfull. Thanks for the explanation.

Standard DW play, really. You don't lose on burst - in fact you gain it

Your burst damage is actually higher with the dw/endless fury setup vs crushing shock? If so, is it by a significant amount?

I have seen a couple people running this and honestly, it has sparked my interest, but I have not felt inclination to switch. I do like the idea of eliminating crushing shock from the bar to free up space for other possibilities.

Honestly, the gap is getting smaller and smaller each patch as they make staff more and more attractive - and DW (often indirectly) less so.

It boils down to..:
1. DW (or 2-hander) has more base wpn/spell dmg than a staff
2. DW (or 2-hnader) sword passives increases damage too (but staves now get it too - at a slightly higher amount)
3. DW can give access to set combo's that staves can't
4. Losing CS makes your rotation much less resource-intense so you can spec less in sustain and more in raw dmg
5. Rotation (and bar) often has space to fit in a degeneration to empower your frag for more burst

The downside is that if the frag gets dodged/blocked, the burst only tickles - which happens much more often on PC imho than on console cos Miats. Well, there a few downsides, actually - but the burst IS higher - and its great at quickly taking down those who don't know how to avoid it. I just like the playstyle.

And the biggest advantage for me at the mo is that, since I run the twilight matriarch, using a staff (and therefore heavy attacks to add to the burst) always causes my passive pet to run off into the zerg and get killed... Doesn't happen with DW :-)

I think using DW against any player with a brain is just impossible, block dodge frag and u are useless.Also gl if ur having to spam 6 endless fury to proc it.On the other side, the pressure destro gives is amazing.

DW play style sexy af tho.