CaliMade wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Fear is Overpowered.

it is far too many positives shoved into 1 skill....


-AOE
-Unblockable
-Snare
-Hard CC
-Causes minor maim
-Grants Major Ward and Resolve thanks to a Shadow skill line passive.


Imo it being an AOE Unblockable CC is enough....those other effects are too much.

God forbid your fighting a NB who uses dark cloak...good luck trying to kill someone with two dodge abilities, 23% extra dmg reduction and Major Mitigation. Just so they can turn offensive and ambush Incap you...then they will have 20% more dmg and you will have Major defile

Ok, let's see:

1-AOE: Just affects 3 enemies.
2- Unblockable: inmo pots and CC break rend it useless. Talons afects moar enemies, and works despite CC inmunity (and does dmg too)
3- Snare: It is needed to make it useful. Feared enemies running with major expedition are hard to catch
4- Minor Maim: How does this help the glass cannon that wants you dead in less than 4 secs? Yup, even with a 15% dmg less you can beat the hell of the NB. Minor Maim does not help you survive the counter gank
5- Major Ward + Major Resolve: See above...

As a NB you are a glass cannon that wants to kill fast. That implies running with less than 12k res in cyro (as a Mageblade, I run with 9k res). If you put moar mitigation, your dmg skill are gonna suffer a lot else you regen is gonna be crap.

I hated NBs when I started playing this, so I learnt the class. After that, it became super easy to kill them... their rotation takes a lot, a lot of practice and any thing that breaks that rotation (such as sloting radiant magelight) means death to them.

By the way, what's Major Mitigation?

Not all NBs are glass cannons, i have over 1900 hours on a NB, i know every little inch of that class. Mitigation= Resistance Major resolve and ward= resistance buffs so They are major dmg mitigation.

3 Eneimies is 200%. more than 1, the snare is applied after the cc ends or is broken,, 100% of experienced nightblades use fear>cloak at least once in a fight against other experienced players



5 Draugr hulk/ 5 hundings 1 BS, Orsinium food= decent sustain Great Heals and Great Damage.

16k resistance. with gold gear+ major mits= 21k resist

2500 crit resist+ 21k resist +Great heals +23% dmg reduction( see my prev reply)= a REALLY Tanky NB

no its not all the time but its mitigation. when its up its gonna take quite a bit of dps to kill you.

I think you are getting odd numbers. Neither major ward nor major resolve are major mitigation buffs. Major protection is a major mitigation buff since it caps 30% dmg incoming. The dmg mitigation provided by the 2 mentioned above is less than 10% considering the cap. It reaches similar numbers to minor protection (in a similar way major sorc/brut is similar to minor berserk).

21k res is little resistance. It is less than the 25% incoming dmg. What do wonders in that area is CP stars especially Ironclad and thick skinned but even with that, the mitigation is less than the blocking mitigation.

2500 crit res sounds good but it isn't as good as you might believe since that mitigation doesn't imply a 2500 less dmg, you are just reducing a 36% of the crit dmg. In simple words a 5k hit crits for 7500 (without modifiers). The crit resists only applies to the 2500 extra dmg, so it will mitigate only 900 points of the total dmg. You are still getting 6.6k dmg. But it won't affect base dmg at all.

Experienced players use inmo pots to avoid fear, or have a reduced cst of breaking free. That saves lives.

I agree it is some interesting mitigation, but building a NB towards survaibility in PvP instead of dmg or regen seems the wrong choice to me. The best defense for a stamblade is by far dodge roll + shuffle and those do not affect dmg.

Xvorg wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Fear is Overpowered.

it is far too many positives shoved into 1 skill....


-AOE
-Unblockable
-Snare
-Hard CC
-Causes minor maim
-Grants Major Ward and Resolve thanks to a Shadow skill line passive.


Imo it being an AOE Unblockable CC is enough....those other effects are too much.

God forbid your fighting a NB who uses dark cloak...good luck trying to kill someone with two dodge abilities, 23% extra dmg reduction and Major Mitigation. Just so they can turn offensive and ambush Incap you...then they will have 20% more dmg and you will have Major defile

Ok, let's see:

1-AOE: Just affects 3 enemies.
2- Unblockable: inmo pots and CC break rend it useless. Talons afects moar enemies, and works despite CC inmunity (and does dmg too)
3- Snare: It is needed to make it useful. Feared enemies running with major expedition are hard to catch
4- Minor Maim: How does this help the glass cannon that wants you dead in less than 4 secs? Yup, even with a 15% dmg less you can beat the hell of the NB. Minor Maim does not help you survive the counter gank
5- Major Ward + Major Resolve: See above...

As a NB you are a glass cannon that wants to kill fast. That implies running with less than 12k res in cyro (as a Mageblade, I run with 9k res). If you put moar mitigation, your dmg skill are gonna suffer a lot else you regen is gonna be crap.

I hated NBs when I started playing this, so I learnt the class. After that, it became super easy to kill them... their rotation takes a lot, a lot of practice and any thing that breaks that rotation (such as sloting radiant magelight) means death to them.

By the way, what's Major Mitigation?

Not all NBs are glass cannons, i have over 1900 hours on a NB, i know every little inch of that class. Mitigation= Resistance Major resolve and ward= resistance buffs so They are major dmg mitigation.

3 Eneimies is 200%. more than 1, the snare is applied after the cc ends or is broken,, 100% of experienced nightblades use fear>cloak at least once in a fight against other experienced players



5 Draugr hulk/ 5 hundings 1 BS, Orsinium food= decent sustain Great Heals and Great Damage.

16k resistance. with gold gear+ major mits= 21k resist

2500 crit resist+ 21k resist +Great heals +23% dmg reduction( see my prev reply)= a REALLY Tanky NB

no its not all the time but its mitigation. when its up its gonna take quite a bit of dps to kill you.

I think you are getting odd numbers. Neither major ward nor major resolve are major mitigation buffs. Major protection is a major mitigation buff since it caps 30% dmg incoming. The dmg mitigation provided by the 2 mentioned above is less than 10% considering the cap. It reaches similar numbers to minor protection (in a similar way major sorc/brut is similar to minor berserk).

21k res is little resistance. It is less than the 25% incoming dmg. What do wonders in that area is CP stars especially Ironclad and thick skinned but even with that, the mitigation is less than the blocking mitigation.

2500 crit res sounds good but it isn't as good as you might believe since that mitigation doesn't imply a 2500 less dmg, you are just reducing a 36% of the crit dmg. In simple words a 5k hit crits for 7500 (without modifiers). The crit resists only applies to the 2500 extra dmg, so it will mitigate only 900 points of the total dmg. You are still getting 6.6k dmg. But it won't affect base dmg at all.

Experienced players use inmo pots to avoid fear, or have a reduced cst of breaking free. That saves lives.

I agree it is some interesting mitigation, but building a NB towards survaibility in PvP instead of dmg or regen seems the wrong choice to me. The best defense for a stamblade is by far dodge roll + shuffle and those do not affect dmg.

Im an experienced NB and i run this build, it is great defence for a non tank i personally run 3k crit resist and my blade is everything but a glass cannon. these are just stats, cp i run 49 in hardy & elemental defender with 50 in ironclad and resistant.

point is NB are not as squishy as you make them out to be, as a NB you can dodge and shuffle in addition to having the mitigation ive stated. EVERY other class has to slot an additional defensive focused ability to get thier mitigation, NB just run thier cloak and CC.the issue starts here, as a NB you dont have to sacrifice anything to get this mitigation outside of crit-cloak. Fear having multiple effects like this makes a good NB REALLY hard to kill, harder than they should be given their potential dmg output


Major ward and resolve fall under the MAJOR buff catagory, they give resistance. Resistance =Mitigation. Major Mitigation. i dnt see why my personal term for buffs needs to be debated.


Let me know the person who makes these immovable pots that last more than 16 seconds....and breaking free isnt the issue seeing as the bufs/debuffs in question are apllied after the CC ends wether you cc break or not...

bubbygink wrote: »

Fear is a very good skill, only a crazy person would say it isn't. But there is nothing wrong with having some good class skills as long as they aren't OP in the context of the class. While fear is indisputably the best non-ult AoE CC in the game, there are actually better CCs depending on the situation. Take Fossilize for example - ranged, does damage, leaves a little talon snare after it is CC broken, and through passives gives minor brutality to your group, restores 3 ultimate, and restores 1000 stamina. So like fear it does A TON of good things. If you only have 1 or maybe even 2 enemies on you then Fossilize outshines fear. NBs lack defensive mechanics so it fits well that they have a "get off me" AoE CC to survive. Meanwhile DKs lack a class execute so it makes sense they have a great single target CC to use to be able to finish off an enemy and get the kill. So I think both CCs are perfectly balanced with their classes and despite being the best AoE and single target CC respectively, neither are OP.

i get your point
As a current Mag DK main though, Fossilize is terrible at granting a kill if not followed up by an Ult. You dont have to break free unless in that specific situation. The CC has a very very small dmg threshold. After the affected player takes around 2.8k dmg the Hard CC ends. You will NEVER kill a magsorc using fossilize nor a magplar unless its followed by a 14k + leap or meteor. Most Mag dks whips hit like wet noodles anyway. I rarely die to them outside of long drawn out duels in the stormhaven lagfest, Despite the fact that they counter my Mag DK Build heavily.

CaliMade wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

Fear is Overpowered.

it is far too many positives shoved into 1 skill....


-AOE
-Unblockable
-Snare
-Hard CC
-Causes minor maim
-Grants Major Ward and Resolve thanks to a Shadow skill line passive.


Imo it being an AOE Unblockable CC is enough....those other effects are too much.

God forbid your fighting a NB who uses dark cloak...good luck trying to kill someone with two dodge abilities, 23% extra dmg reduction and Major Mitigation. Just so they can turn offensive and ambush Incap you...then they will have 20% more dmg and you will have Major defile

Ok, let's see:

1-AOE: Just affects 3 enemies.
2- Unblockable: inmo pots and CC break rend it useless. Talons afects moar enemies, and works despite CC inmunity (and does dmg too)
3- Snare: It is needed to make it useful. Feared enemies running with major expedition are hard to catch
4- Minor Maim: How does this help the glass cannon that wants you dead in less than 4 secs? Yup, even with a 15% dmg less you can beat the hell of the NB. Minor Maim does not help you survive the counter gank
5- Major Ward + Major Resolve: See above...

As a NB you are a glass cannon that wants to kill fast. That implies running with less than 12k res in cyro (as a Mageblade, I run with 9k res). If you put moar mitigation, your dmg skill are gonna suffer a lot else you regen is gonna be crap.

I hated NBs when I started playing this, so I learnt the class. After that, it became super easy to kill them... their rotation takes a lot, a lot of practice and any thing that breaks that rotation (such as sloting radiant magelight) means death to them.

By the way, what's Major Mitigation?

Not all NBs are glass cannons, i have over 1900 hours on a NB, i know every little inch of that class. Mitigation= Resistance Major resolve and ward= resistance buffs so They are major dmg mitigation.

3 Eneimies is 200%. more than 1, the snare is applied after the cc ends or is broken,, 100% of experienced nightblades use fear>cloak at least once in a fight against other experienced players



5 Draugr hulk/ 5 hundings 1 BS, Orsinium food= decent sustain Great Heals and Great Damage.

16k resistance. with gold gear+ major mits= 21k resist

2500 crit resist+ 21k resist +Great heals +23% dmg reduction( see my prev reply)= a REALLY Tanky NB

no its not all the time but its mitigation. when its up its gonna take quite a bit of dps to kill you.

I think you are getting odd numbers. Neither major ward nor major resolve are major mitigation buffs. Major protection is a major mitigation buff since it caps 30% dmg incoming. The dmg mitigation provided by the 2 mentioned above is less than 10% considering the cap. It reaches similar numbers to minor protection (in a similar way major sorc/brut is similar to minor berserk).

21k res is little resistance. It is less than the 25% incoming dmg. What do wonders in that area is CP stars especially Ironclad and thick skinned but even with that, the mitigation is less than the blocking mitigation.

2500 crit res sounds good but it isn't as good as you might believe since that mitigation doesn't imply a 2500 less dmg, you are just reducing a 36% of the crit dmg. In simple words a 5k hit crits for 7500 (without modifiers). The crit resists only applies to the 2500 extra dmg, so it will mitigate only 900 points of the total dmg. You are still getting 6.6k dmg. But it won't affect base dmg at all.

Experienced players use inmo pots to avoid fear, or have a reduced cst of breaking free. That saves lives.

I agree it is some interesting mitigation, but building a NB towards survaibility in PvP instead of dmg or regen seems the wrong choice to me. The best defense for a stamblade is by far dodge roll + shuffle and those do not affect dmg.

Im an experienced NB and i run this build, it is great defence for a non tank i personally run 3k crit resist and my blade is everything but a glass cannon. these are just stats, cp i run 49 in hardy & elemental defender with 50 in ironclad and resistant.

point is NB are not as squishy as you make them out to be, as a NB you can dodge and shuffle in addition to having the mitigation ive stated. EVERY other class has to slot an additional defensive focused ability to get thier mitigation, NB just run thier cloak and CC.the issue starts here, as a NB you dont have to sacrifice anything to get this mitigation outside of crit-cloak. Fear having multiple effects like this makes a good NB REALLY hard to kill, harder than they should be given their potential dmg output


Major ward and resolve fall under the MAJOR buff catagory, they give resistance. Resistance =Mitigation. Major Mitigation. i dnt see why my personal term for buffs needs to be debated.


Let me know the person who makes these immovable pots that last more than 16 seconds....and breaking free isnt the issue seeing as the bufs/debuffs in question are apllied after the CC ends wether you cc break or not...

Ok, the build "works" for you but by no way it meas it works on everyone else.

Regarding the "major mitigation" issue, despite major ward and major resolve are labelled as "major" buffs, in terms of mitigation they are far from being "major mitigation buffs".

Consider this: 33k resitance mitigates arount 30% of the incoming dmg. 6k resistance borders the 7~8% mitigation, and that's nothing. on its own. If you use it in a 20k builds, yeah you're not gonna be a glass cannon, but neither you are gonna kill as fast as a NB is supposed to kill.

I guess your SA tooltip barely reaches 8k, that's the price you get for using HA. Regarding regen, I caculate like 1,3k stam, and 600 mag (too low for a class that rely on 3 magicka skills to kill/escape)

So, as a seasoned NB as you present yourself, how do you address those problems that arise when looking for (mediocre) mitigation? Just waiting the buffs do their work? And what do you do against oblivion/crushing glyphs, CC, res poison, major breach/fracture? And moar important than that, as a NB, how do you kill with a wet noodle?

<sigh>
Nerf NB's damage abilities!!! They do too much damage!!!
No- nerf NB's non-damage abilities!!!! They offer utility!!

Please pick which half you want to nerf this patch cycle. You can vote on a new way to gut them next patch cycle but FFS people pick 1 nerf topic at a time!

NB trades survivability for damage. Cloak itself is a sacrifice of mag if it's broken, but has the benefit of being spammable.

The only thing that miffs me is that fossilise only hits one target but is then broken by damage, fear isn't. Fossilise isn't worth running imo unless you are using meteor. Its outclassed by talons.

I don't see a point nerfing anything based upon 1v1 situations while pvp content is a team effort.
If pvp groups would rule with a huge majority of one class, then that would be a balance problem, I remember a game that had such, but 1v1 really isn't unless 1v1 arenas are implemented.