NBs - ZOS and a aberration in balance

Juli'St

It is difficult to punctuate something about a specific class, as this will contradict, and with reasons, those who use this class. But I think it's more than time to rebalance a skill, in particular, used by NBs.

Fear Skill

No other class has anything that stunt their opponent for long, be it DK, Templars, Sorc, Warden. In pvp, for example, it is almost impossible to fight NBs without good preparation with potions. It is not only the absurd DPS (which should suffer nerfs) but a whole range of skills that immobilizes the opponent without any equality parameter or any idea that resembles 'balanced combat' with other classes.

Something like: even my grandmother, blind, playing with a hand behind her back is good with a NB.

Well, not a nice subject, I hope no one will make it personal.

Yakidafi

If one just compare straight of no other thinking like op.
Dk= petrify /talons
Sorc =encase /rune prison
Templar=focused charge/javelin
Wardens = deep fissure

I don't see a problem doing it like that.
Maybe give warden 1 more cc to make it equal to other classes.

Orjix

Negative batman

Maryal

Juli'St wrote: »

It is difficult to punctuate something about a specific class, as this will contradict, and with reasons, those who use this class. But I think it's more than time to rebalance a skill, in particular, used by NBs.

Fear Skill

No other class has anything that stunt their opponent for long, be it DK, Templars, Sorc, Warden. In pvp, for example, it is almost impossible to fight NBs without good preparation with potions. It is not only the absurd DPS (which should suffer nerfs) but a whole range of skills that immobilizes the opponent without any equality parameter or any idea that resembles 'balanced combat' with other classes.

Something like: even my grandmother, blind, playing with a hand behind her back is good with a NB.

Well, not a nice subject, I hope no one will make it personal.

Werewolfs have a skill that causes fear
Fighter's Guild skill circle of protection (the turn undead morph) will fear undead, daedra and werewolfs on cast.

Nobody likes to be stunned or immobilized, but each class has some sort of ability that can do that. I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

MarzAttakz

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Maryal

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Thanks for the info ... I do tend to be on the receiving end of whatever the skill is in PVP ... i can be out of LOS and still be effected by it. For example, I will throw caltraps from atop a keep wall, out of the LOS of enemies below, and shortly thereafter I get 'enveloped' in the bubble. Whatever it is, it certainly takes me out of combat for a fair amount of time. LOL

Gilvoth

everyone i use "fear" skill on almost immediately breaks free from it.

Juli'St

Yakidafi wrote: »

If one just compare straight of no other thinking like op.
Dk= petrify /talons
Sorc =encase /rune prison
Templar=focused charge/javelin
Wardens = deep fissure

I don't see a problem doing it like that.
Maybe give warden 1 more cc to make it equal to other classes.

fear 15 sec.

Others: 5 secound.

Juli'St

Maryal wrote: »

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Thanks for the info ... I do tend to be on the receiving end of whatever the skill is in PVP ... i can be out of LOS and still be effected by it. For example, I will throw caltraps from atop a keep wall, out of the LOS of enemies below, and shortly thereafter I get 'enveloped' in the bubble. Whatever it is, it certainly takes me out of combat for a fair amount of time. LOL

Caltrops: stamina.

break free: stamina

Broke any stunt: stamina

#ZOS_HATE_MAG_CLASSES

Ultimate_Overlord

@Juli'St Dont use caltrops on a magicka build, break free and breaking a stun are the same things, fear lasts less than 5s. Be grateful fear does no dmg unlike most other ccs.
Oh, and if you cc break it doesnt even matter how long a stun lasts

cpuScientist

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Not eclipse, petrify you mean?

cpuScientist

Fear is a strong stun no doubt. But it's IMO balanced. The only time it gets unbalanced is with lag lol. Lag plus fear is a near death sentence.

bubbygink

Whenever I see somebody talk about the "length of a stun" I immediately know that they need to L2P. All stuns in PVP are the exact same time - the approximately 1 second it takes for you to break it. If you aren't breaking it right away, you need to learn to do so. Whether that means getting a better stamina pool/recovery or having better reaction time, the bottom line is that it is a L2P issue, not a balancing issue. They could make the stun time on fear 10 hours for all I care, makes no difference - I'll still break it in one second or less every time.

Juli'St

Simple, base breakefree/block, etc in mag too, not only in istam.

End all of problems.

ZOS_MattL

Hey there,
We have removed a few posts in this thread as they were off topic and inflammatory. In the future please make sure that posts are not directed at an individual and contribute to the topic being discussed.
Thanks,
Matt

fred4

Juli'St wrote: »

Something like: even my grandmother, blind, playing with a hand behind her back is good with a NB.

Has your grandmother played NB? Have you? Because otherwise you honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Using Immovability potions, open world or in BG, is par for the course. Most useful potion effect, full stop. Let me tell you some interesting things about Fear: It fails. It fails randomly. It fails when just one person being feared already has CC immunity: it won't fear any target then. Yes, all CC sometimes bugs out when you're trying to break it. Even mentioning the length, though, it is as others have said: You must break any CC immediately, unless you're wearing Reactive Armor. You don't break CC, you're dead. That's just PvP. You don't manage your stamina, you're dead. Best way to manage your stamina: Immovability pots, not stam pots.

Yes, some stamblades have insane burst. If they are very good they know how to defend or back off as well. You will notice very quickly though when they're not very good. They spam Ambush just a little too often, for example. Then they die. One burst from my mag warden and they are near death. NB takes skill to play well.

ChandraNalaar

Juli'St wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

If one just compare straight of no other thinking like op.
Dk= petrify /talons
Sorc =encase /rune prison
Templar=focused charge/javelin
Wardens = deep fissure

I don't see a problem doing it like that.
Maybe give warden 1 more cc to make it equal to other classes.

fear 15 sec.

Others: 5 secound.

I don't know what nightblade you've been ganked by, but fear does not last for fifteen seconds at all.

ItsDyvim

Maryal wrote: »

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Thanks for the info ... I do tend to be on the receiving end of whatever the skill is in PVP ... i can be out of LOS and still be effected by it. For example, I will throw caltraps from atop a keep wall, out of the LOS of enemies below, and shortly thereafter I get 'enveloped' in the bubble. Whatever it is, it certainly takes me out of combat for a fair amount of time. LOL

Sorc: Defensive Rune. They cast it on themselves and it bubbles the first person to damage them.

Juli'St

ItsDyvim wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Thanks for the info ... I do tend to be on the receiving end of whatever the skill is in PVP ... i can be out of LOS and still be effected by it. For example, I will throw caltraps from atop a keep wall, out of the LOS of enemies below, and shortly thereafter I get 'enveloped' in the bubble. Whatever it is, it certainly takes me out of combat for a fair amount of time. LOL

Sorc: Defensive Rune. They cast it on themselves and it bubbles the first person to damage them.

Yes, is very good. I use this in my sorc. But templars dont have nothing. (one friend talk about 'purge', but, what is this?)

ZOS_MattL

Hey there,
We had to remove more posts from this thread as they were combative. If this happens again the thread will be closed. Keep the thread on topic and if you disagree with someone do so civilly.
Thanks,
Matt

Juli'St

ZOS_MattL wrote: »

Hey there,
We had to remove more posts from this thread as they were combative. If this happens again the thread will be closed. Keep the thread on topic and if you disagree with someone do so civilly.
Thanks,
Matt

That is the idea, @ZOS_MattL close my topic, bcause this certain guys come here to offend me.

Brrrofski

Learn to manage your stamina better. Put more CP in break free. Use immovable pots.

Plenty of counters.

Juli'St

Brrrofski wrote: »

Learn to manage your stamina better. Put more CP in break free. Use immovable pots.

Plenty of counters.

Exacly, but, like a 'natural' skill (Sorc and rune) i think templars and Wardens need something like it.

Juli'St

(exemple, mage light, 'light', this can back work for all the time, - like in past - not just for 5 secounds)

Hurika

Try not running completely out of stamina for starters.

Fear is a counter for perma block and perma shield spam but only against people that don't manage their resources or forget to go into settings and set up a "break free" key.

cpuScientist

ChandraNalaar wrote: »

Juli'St wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

If one just compare straight of no other thinking like op.
Dk= petrify /talons
Sorc =encase /rune prison
Templar=focused charge/javelin
Wardens = deep fissure

I don't see a problem doing it like that.
Maybe give warden 1 more cc to make it equal to other classes.

fear 15 sec.

Others: 5 secound.

I don't know what nightblade you've been ganked by, but fear does not last for fifteen seconds at all.

He lagged so it seemed worst than it was. Only explanation.... Unless he EXAGGERATED!!!!!

Xvorg

Juli'St wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

If one just compare straight of no other thinking like op.
Dk= petrify /talons
Sorc =encase /rune prison
Templar=focused charge/javelin
Wardens = deep fissure

I don't see a problem doing it like that.
Maybe give warden 1 more cc to make it equal to other classes.

fear 15 sec.

Others: 5 secound.

WUT?

4 secs man. With Dark veil is 4.6 secs

Where did you get those 15 secs?

Maryal

ItsDyvim wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

MarzAttakz wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

I forget the name of the skill, but sorcs have a skill that brings you to your knees and puts you in a bubble and you can't move .. at all .. and it lasts much longer than the effect of fear. I'm not picking on sorcs or their skill / ability ... I'm just saying every class has something and, sure, being on the receiving end of any stun or immobilization really sucks, but you have to learn to work around it.

Encase: Just like Talons but less so.
Rune Prison: Just like Eclipse but less so.

Go ahead, they seldomly slot them anyway...

Thanks for the info ... I do tend to be on the receiving end of whatever the skill is in PVP ... i can be out of LOS and still be effected by it. For example, I will throw caltraps from atop a keep wall, out of the LOS of enemies below, and shortly thereafter I get 'enveloped' in the bubble. Whatever it is, it certainly takes me out of combat for a fair amount of time. LOL

Sorc: Defensive Rune. They cast it on themselves and it bubbles the first person to damage them.

YES! That's it!! Let me tell you, it is effective... LOL! Now THAT's a skill I wish my NB had (just kidding .... but seriously ... naaaa, just kidding) Thanks for the info.

CaliMade

Fear is Overpowered.

it is far too many positives shoved into 1 skill....


-AOE
-Unblockable
-Snare
-Hard CC
-Causes minor maim
-Grants Major Ward and Resolve thanks to a Shadow skill line passive.


Imo it being an AOE Unblockable CC is enough....those other effects are too much.

God forbid your fighting a NB who uses dark cloak...good luck trying to kill someone with two dodge abilities, 23% extra dmg reduction and Major Mitigation. Just so they can turn offensive and ambush Incap you...then they will have 20% more dmg and you will have Major defile

Xvorg

CaliMade wrote: »

Fear is Overpowered.

it is far too many positives shoved into 1 skill....


-AOE
-Unblockable
-Snare
-Hard CC
-Causes minor maim
-Grants Major Ward and Resolve thanks to a Shadow skill line passive.


Imo it being an AOE Unblockable CC is enough....those other effects are too much.

God forbid your fighting a NB who uses dark cloak...good luck trying to kill someone with two dodge abilities, 23% extra dmg reduction and Major Mitigation. Just so they can turn offensive and ambush Incap you...then they will have 20% more dmg and you will have Major defile

Ok, let's see:

1-AOE: Just affects 3 enemies.
2- Unblockable: inmo pots and CC break rend it useless. Talons afects moar enemies, and works despite CC inmunity (and does dmg too)
3- Snare: It is needed to make it useful. Feared enemies running with major expedition are hard to catch
4- Minor Maim: How does this help the glass cannon that wants you dead in less than 4 secs? Yup, even with a 15% dmg less you can beat the hell of the NB. Minor Maim does not help you survive the counter gank
5- Major Ward + Major Resolve: See above...

As a NB you are a glass cannon that wants to kill fast. That implies running with less than 12k res in cyro (as a Mageblade, I run with 9k res). If you put moar mitigation, your dmg skill are gonna suffer a lot else you regen is gonna be crap.

I hated NBs when I started playing this, so I learnt the class. After that, it became super easy to kill them... their rotation takes a lot, a lot of practice and any thing that breaks that rotation (such as sloting radiant magelight) means death to them.

By the way, what's Major Mitigation?

Izaki

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

everyone i use "fear" skill on almost immediately breaks free from it.

Seems like aside from hating on Sorcs there's isn't much you can do ;P