Examining Mother's Sorrow - Pre-HotR vs 3.1.4 vs HotR LIVE

dpencil1 · August 2017

In this thread I will show the impact of the Mother's Sorrow crit chance bonuses on hypothetical dps values. There will be 3 parameters to be tested to see how they effect the potential power of Mother's Sorrow:
1. The amount of damage the player would have done with 0 crit chance. This is our Baseline. (10k, 15k, 20k non-crit dps)
2. The amount of crit chance already present before Mother's Sorrow is added. (40%, 50%, 60% crit chance)
3. The amount of crit damage present. (50%, 60%, 70% crit damage)

So plotting from [10k base dps, with 40% crit, and 50% crit damage] up to [20k base dps, with 60% crit, and 70% crit damage] should give us a picture of how Mother's Sorrow generally boosts dps.

We will perform these calculations on Mother's Sorrow Pre-HotR, 3.1.4, and HotR LIVE to see how the set has changed.

Pre-HotR: 688 + 688 + 1643 = 3019 / 219 = 13.7%
3.1.4: 1066 + 1066 + 2470 = 4602 / 219 = 21%
HotR LIVE: 833 + 833 + 1924 = 3590 / 219 = 16.4%

21 - 13.7 = 7.3% gained crit chance from Pre-HotR to LIVE
21 - 16.4 = 4.6% lost crit chance from 3.1.4 to LIVE
16.4 - 13.7 = 2.7% gained crit chance from Pre-HotR to HotR LIVE

This chart shows the additional dps gained by Mother's Sorrow over various baselines:

This is the same data converted into % contribution to overall dps:

Math

----

10000 non-crit dps, 40% crit, 50% crit dmg
0.4 x 0.5 = 0.2
10000 x 0.2 = 2000

Pre-HotR: 40 + 13.7 = 53.7
0.537 x 0.5 = 0.268
10000 x 0.268 = 2680
2680 - 2000 = 680
12680 / 12000 = 5.6%

3.1.4: 40 + 21 = 61
0.61 x 0.5 = 0.305
10000 x 0.305 = 3050
3050 - 2000 = 1050
13050 / 12000 = 8.75%

LIVE: 40 + 16.4 = 56.4
0.564 x 0.5 = 0.282
10000 x 0.282 = 2820
2820 - 2000 = 820
12820 / 12000 = 6.83%

----

15000 non-crit dps, 50% crit, 60% crit dmg
0.5 x 0.6 = 0.3
15000 x 0.3 = 4500

Pre-HotR: 50 + 13.7 = 63.7
0.637 x 0.6 = 0.382
15000 x 0.382 = 5730
5730 - 4500 = 1230
20730 / 19500 = 6.3%

3.1.4: 50 + 21 = 71
0.71 x 0.6 = 0.426
15000 x 0.426 = 6390
6390 - 4500 = 1890
21390 / 19500 = 9.7%

LIVE: 50 + 16.4 = 66.4
0.664 x 0.6 = 0.398
15000 x 0.398 = 5970
5970 - 4500 = 1470
20970 / 19500 = 7.5%

----

20000 non-crit dps, 60% crit, 70% crit dmg
0.6 x 0.7 = 0.42
20000 x 0.42 = 8400

Pre-HotR: 60 + 13.7 = 73.7
0.737 x 0.7 = 0.516
20000 x 0.516 = 10320
10320 - 8400 = 1920
30320 / 28400 = 6.7%

3.1.4: 60 + 21 = 81
0.81 x 0.7 = 0.567
20000 x 0.567 = 11340
11340 - 8400 = 2940
31340 / 28400 = 10.3%

LIVE: 60 + 16.4 = 76.4
0.764 x 0.7 = 0.5348
20000 x 0.535 = 10700
10700 - 8400 = 2300
30700 / 28400 = 8.1%

----

Texecutioner187 · August 2017

Interesting... so while they did nerf it, it doesn't appear as though it was as badly nerfed when HotR actually got deployed?

P.S. Spoiler's looking good!

idk · August 2017

What mundus are you using? Also, should be compared without raid buffs and with full raid buffs such as WH, puncture, etc.

dpencil1 · August 2017

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Your questions are not pertinent to the analysis. I said that I am starting with a baseline non-crit dps, crit chance, and crit damage. These values were assigned independent of any sort of imagined "build." Nothing is said about how you would achieve these sorts of values. They are a guideline for the sort of dps contributton you could reasonably expect with similar stats. If you have a particular setup you are interested in, open the Math section and plug in your own total damage without Mother's Sorrow (Base Damage x (Crit Chance x Crit Damage), and then add the additional crit chance into the formula to see the set's impact.

dpencil1 · August 2017

@jgruberman
It was only nerfed relative to the PTS. For Live it was always going to have been a buff, the question was just by how much.

Megabear · August 2017

Thank you dpencil1! Generally speaking, would you say Sorrow's performance is in close competition to other sets such as Juliano, Spinner and Necropotence?

dpencil1 · August 2017

@Megabear
Mother's Sorrow is a dps ENABLER not a dps CREATOR. It will be pretty lackluster in a situation where you have low dps, low crit chance, and low crit damage. And it does better, the more you are able to pump up those factors. So it will generally be part of a double 5-piece build, and really should probably not ever be the only 5-piece set you use.

In a way, Mother's Sorrow and Spinner's function in opposite ways. As you get closer to the penetrarion cap, Spinner's contributes less, so it is more favorable for lower level/CP chcarcters, since they are unlikely to be close the the pen cap. Conversely, Mother's Sorrow would be bad for lower level/CP characters, since they would not be generating enough innate dps to make MS provide a significant contribution. Meanwhile, Julianos basically remains the same in all circumstances.

Is the contribution of MS good when paired with another strong set and good overall stats? Yes, absolutely.

Is it as good as it was in 3.1.4? No.

At this point it is seems more reasonably balanced to not necessarily be the automatic BiS, but a good set among other good sets.

Texecutioner187 · August 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

@jgruberman
It was only nerfed relative to the PTS. For Live it was always going to have been a buff, the question was just by how much.

I mean nerfed as far as from today on console versus today on PC. For example, my Mothers Sorrow pieces now on Xbox are going to have higher stats at this present moment than yours on PC with HotR released, correct?

Megabear · August 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Megabear
Mother's Sorrow is a dps ENABLER not a dps CREATOR. It will be pretty lackluster in a situation where you have low dps, low crit chance, and low crit damage. And it does better, the more you are able to pump up those factors. So it will generally be part of a double 5-piece build, and really should probably not ever be the only 5-piece set you use.

In a way, Mother's Sorrow and Spinner's function in opposite ways. As you get closer to the penetrarion cap, Spinner's contributes less, so it is more favorable for lower level/CP chcarcters, since they are unlikely to be close the the pen cap. Conversely, Mother's Sorrow would be bad for lower level/CP characters, since they would not be generating enough innate dps to make MS provide a significant contribution. Meanwhile, Julianos basically remains the same in all circumstances.

Is the contribution of MS good when paired with another strong set and good overall stats? Yes, absolutely.

Is it as good as it was in 3.1.4? No.

At this point it is seems more reasonably balanced to not necessarily be the automatic BiS, but a good set among other good sets.

Thank you for the detailed explanation

dpencil1 · August 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@jgruberman
It was only nerfed relative to the PTS. For Live it was always going to have been a buff, the question was just by how much.

I mean nerfed as far as from today on console versus today on PC. For example, my Mothers Sorrow pieces now on Xbox are going to have higher stats at this present moment than yours on PC with HotR released, correct?

No. You are living in Pre-HotR. It is a buff moving from Pre-HotR to HotR LIVE.

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2017

jgruberman wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@jgruberman
It was only nerfed relative to the PTS. For Live it was always going to have been a buff, the question was just by how much.

I mean nerfed as far as from today on console versus today on PC. For example, my Mothers Sorrow pieces now on Xbox are going to have higher stats at this present moment than yours on PC with HotR released, correct?

no

Texecutioner187 · August 2017

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

no

This doesn't help.

dpencil1 wrote: »

No. You are living in Pre-HotR. It is a buff moving from Pre-HotR to HotR LIVE.

This does, thank you. I forgot that I wasn't in 3.1.4, and that was the most recent PTS version before the actual update.