Waffennacht wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

@leepalmer95

As someone who has played MMO's since the original Everquest, every single instance I've seen (regardless of MMO) where you start seeing a disproportionate % of the gaming population playing a given class has meant that that class is OP...

Every single instance...

Are you saying that that is not the case here and that we are all overreacting?

Meaning Stam NBs are the most OP class

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

Well we agree to disagree...

And no, I don't have a Mag Sorc, but I know I see more of them than any other class at current...

Ahh i see, you don't have one and have never tried one.

But its OP, also play a magplar i see.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

Well we agree to disagree...

And no, I don't have a Mag Sorc, but I know I see more of them than any other class at current...

Ahh i see, you don't have one and have never tried one.

But its OP, also play a magplar i see.

No, I've never played one, but I've fought against them (as well as every other class combination), and based on those fights I've had against them vs other classes, they are definitely the most difficult for me to defeat...

Adding to that is the sheer volume of them ingame; that, based on my experience in MMO's, is the red flag that a class is OP...

How long have you played MMO's? Can you truthfully say that an ever growing % of one particular class in popularity vs the others isn't a sign that the class experiencing the usage increase isn't OP?

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

Well we agree to disagree...

And no, I don't have a Mag Sorc, but I know I see more of them than any other class at current...

Ahh i see, you don't have one and have never tried one.

But its OP, also play a magplar i see.

No, I've never played one, but I've fought against them (as well as every other class combination), and based on those fights I've had against them vs other classes, they are definitely the most difficult for me to defeat...

Adding to that is the sheer volume of them ingame; that, based on my experience in MMO's, is the red flag that a class is OP...

How long have you played MMO's? Can you truthfully say that an ever growing % of one particular class in popularity vs the others isn't a sign that the class experiencing the usage increase isn't OP?

A lot of people played stam nb last patch, does that mean stam nb is OP? No, stam nb wasn't OP procs was. Now that procs are gone mostly stam nb's will lose popularity. By your logic zos should of nerfed stam nb's last patch because they was 'OP' at the time which would of made the useless this patch.

They're the most difficult because your a magplar. Not sure how you can complain something is OP without actually playing it. Maybe who your fighting is very good, mag sorc is a decent solo/ duo class likely the best now because of mobility/ sustain and burst potential which works good vs noobs. Most mag sorcs are usually good players because of this.

It doesn't matter how long you've played MMO's, each game is different. Maybe the meta re rollers may go mag sorc instead of stam nb but most of them will be easy kills because of lack of proc sets. I've played for a while.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mag Sorcs are not the most common class right now.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

Well we agree to disagree...

And no, I don't have a Mag Sorc, but I know I see more of them than any other class at current...

Ahh i see, you don't have one and have never tried one.

But its OP, also play a magplar i see.

No, I've never played one, but I've fought against them (as well as every other class combination), and based on those fights I've had against them vs other classes, they are definitely the most difficult for me to defeat...

Adding to that is the sheer volume of them ingame; that, based on my experience in MMO's, is the red flag that a class is OP...

How long have you played MMO's? Can you truthfully say that an ever growing % of one particular class in popularity vs the others isn't a sign that the class experiencing the usage increase isn't OP?

But that's also just as often because of the perception of them being overpowered. Especially in light of all the recent 'sorcs are overpowered' threads on here - all created by the same, small number of people - but the sheer volume of those threads start making people believe that they are the current meta - so people start playing them so you see more of them - so you have ammo to say 'sorc op'

To be honest, playing my magsorc, the class I have the biggest problems with are the magplars - the ones who just block-cast everything and purge the only ability I have that goes through block *shrug*. Magsorc also has no heal debuffs. I mean its rare they're a threat to me - but I'm certainly not a threat to them either..

Well we can agree to disagree about Mag Sorc being OP...

I certainly believe they are, and not just based on threads proclaiming they are, but based on what I have seen in game with their numbers and how well they perform...


As for those Magplars that play as you describe, they cant kill anyone...

Mag Sorcs (on the other hand) arguably can have just as much 'unkillability' as the Blocking Magplar, but be lethal as hell at the same time...

The blocking magplar heals everyone around them while surviving.

Also they can kill people just fine all they have to do is put the super balanced purifying light on a target and hit them for 12k.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

[Snip]

Seriously, though, magsorcs continue to be a ridiculously OP class. I kill a lot of everyone in pvp. Right now magsorcs are tankier than DKs and more lethal than NBs. Mag sorcs can fend off 6+ experienced players running good builds.

For a long time there's been a community theory that ZOS simply love sorcs, and that Eric Wroebel plays a mag sorc. Mmm...maybe. I think it's more that they don't understand what makes mag sorcs OP currently. The problem is that it's not one ability that is making them over perform. We've had that before...the golden age of wrecking blow. When it's one ability the dev team can identify it and nerf it. With sorcs, it's not a single skill. The problem is that their tool box has been gifted with so many A+ skills that you can build a simple, efficient bar that does absolutely everything for you, as opposed to other classes that have to make trade offs to get a benefit.

Here's one example. Haunting curse is a great dps skill. However, it brings two other invaluable pvp benefits to the table. One, it prevents an enemy from hiding...they're pulled out of sneak after both blasts. This enables a sorc to track an enemy, one of the hardest challenges in pvp. Secondly, it procs a second time. The value in this isn't the damage, it's that the sorc **doesn't have to target the enemy for that hit.** Being able to visually track a player and put an attack on them is a core skill in this game. Unlike other classes, sorcs get a buy-one-get-one-free EVERY time they use this skill. They don't have to land the attack...the computer does it for them.

If Curse were the only A+ skill, it'd be okay. Every class has their golden skill. But sorcs benefit from too many.

Their current meta build starts with hardened ward and harness magicka. If they can keep these up by stacking in constant rotation, each proc is negating one or two incoming hits. Thus the tankiness. Then they add power surge. This is another A+ skill because not only does it grant major damage, it returns a lot of health. So any damage that does get through the wards is being healed behind the next shield cast.

Now we add damage abilities. Curse, mages wrath, crushing shock and crystal frag...all "easy button" skills that allow a point and shoot approach to dispensing mass damage. Because they're so easy, it's pretty simple to keep the wards and buffs up in the background. Throw in boundless storm for an AOE that keeps enemies off them.

Then we have streak. Yet another A+ skill that does quadruple duty. It's useful as an escape, it closes gaps, but it also reveals hidden enemies and IT ALSO SNARES. This is a ridiculous skill. You get a curse on someone, then ten seconds later when they're revealed you can close the gap, find them again, stun them, and start dishing damage. It's not that all of this is unreasonable...it's just that every other class has to slot at least two skills to do all of this. And that's the basic problem with sorcs...when a skill does what two other skills do for other classes, the freed bar space allows for all these amazing abilities with no trade offs. Sorcs can choose from the best of everything.

In theory, this wouldn't be possible if sorcs "ran dry." But here too they've been gifted too much power. Their skills are pretty cheap...but there are also a ton of mechanisms and gear in the game that is returning magic to them constantly. Harness magic is pretty good, but OF COURSE in this area they're gifted another A+ skill...dark exchange, which converts their stamina pool into magic and health at a very good rate. Other classes use their alt resource primarily for defense. But sorcs get to convert it directly into their primary mana. Where my stamblade can convert his magic into invisibility or snares, a magsorcs converts their stamina directly into magic, meaning it becomes whatever they need that second.

The sorc front and back bars then become a very efficient engine: magic ==> shields and damage ==> returned health and magic ==> shields and damage, while any surplus stamina is converted and thrown into the formula.

Think of it like this...sorcs have become like cats. (Which is ironic, I guess, since Khajiit don't make good sorcs). Cats are evolution's super predator. They survive due to utter efficiency. Their claws are relatively simple, but they allow them to shred, to stab, to climb and to snare. Because their claws work so well, they can expend energy on other massive perks...like night vision and balance. Sorcs are not unlike cats. Each slot on their bar can be filled with choice skills that pull double and triple duty, making room for other skills pulling double or triple duty.

In this regard, it's not that sorcs need a true nerf. Their hits don't land THAT hard. What they need, I believe, is for several of their skills to reduce the number of things they accomplish. (Yes I understand that's still a nerf). Give them access to major sorcery, but don't make it a massive heal as well. Let them get magic or health from exchange, but not both. Eliminate the second cast of curse. Simplify streak. And increase the cost of some of their skills. But do any or all of these with the goal of forcing mag sorcs to choose between perks, which is something that feels like a major challenge for the other classes, but not sorcs.

[Edited to remove non-constructive intro]

1000000% agreed; excellent, excellent, post...

Proof of what you say can be seen ingame as I see soooooo many d@mn Magicka Sorcs in game nowadays; I was in a large group earlier where two guys logged off the character they were playing to log on their Magicka Sorcs...

When you see sooooo many people using a given class in an MMO, you can bet your life savings that that particular class is OP in some significant fashion...

Mag Sorcs are OP at current...

Anyone with their eyes open can see this...

" i was in a large group earlier " lmao.

Anyway maybe those guy were bored?

Yeah, a large group; I typically run solo or with a small group...

And no, they weren't bored, the group leader wanted more dps in the group, so...they both said we'll be back on our Mag Sorcs.

If they wanted the most burst dmg they would of went with mag nb's.

And by burst dmg he likely mean't destro ults.

Dps is a pve term as dps isn't useful in pve.

Once again, they went with Mag Sorcs and the group leader wanted more dps...

That's what happened in game and it showcases the point that Mag Sorcs are very popular right now...

Sure, you can argue that a Mag NB can do more burst, but they choose Mag Sorcs for a reason; from top to bottom they are the best...

The sheer quantity of Mag Sorcs you see ingame showcases that...


And what are you trying to get at anyway? Are you trying to say that the OP doesn't know what he's talking about and that Mag Sorcs are not OP?

What view point are you trying to get across?

Mag sorc's aren't OP. Like i said any 2 good players will melt a mag sorc.

Shields are strong in 1v1 yeah, but what isn't strong in 1v1? Game isn't designed around 1v1 either.

They could of chose mag sorc because it's not too hard to play. But they could of chose it because the forum is full of people crying wolf of how OP mag sorc is.

Do you have a mag sorc? Does OP have a mag sorc becauze i find most of these mag sorc are OP pls Nurf threads are created by people who don't have mag sorc's.

Well we agree to disagree...

And no, I don't have a Mag Sorc, but I know I see more of them than any other class at current...

Ahh i see, you don't have one and have never tried one.

But its OP, also play a magplar i see.

No, I've never played one, but I've fought against them (as well as every other class combination), and based on those fights I've had against them vs other classes, they are definitely the most difficult for me to defeat...

Adding to that is the sheer volume of them ingame; that, based on my experience in MMO's, is the red flag that a class is OP...

How long have you played MMO's? Can you truthfully say that an ever growing % of one particular class in popularity vs the others isn't a sign that the class experiencing the usage increase isn't OP?

But that's also just as often because of the perception of them being overpowered. Especially in light of all the recent 'sorcs are overpowered' threads on here - all created by the same, small number of people - but the sheer volume of those threads start making people believe that they are the current meta - so people start playing them so you see more of them - so you have ammo to say 'sorc op'

To be honest, playing my magsorc, the class I have the biggest problems with are the magplars - the ones who just block-cast everything and purge the only ability I have that goes through block *shrug*. Magsorc also has no heal debuffs. I mean its rare they're a threat to me - but I'm certainly not a threat to them either..

Well we can agree to disagree about Mag Sorc being OP...

I certainly believe they are, and not just based on threads proclaiming they are, but based on what I have seen in game with their numbers and how well they perform...


As for those Magplars that play as you describe, they cant kill anyone...

Mag Sorcs (on the other hand) arguably can have just as much 'unkillability' as the Blocking Magplar, but be lethal as hell at the same time...

The blocking magplar heals everyone around them while surviving.

Also they can kill people just fine all they have to do is put the super balanced purifying light on a target and hit them for 12k.

That's not them really killing anyone...

That's them setting the target up to be killed by everyone else; afterall Purifying Light doesn't do much damage unless the target is being bombarded by damage, and the blocking Magplar sure isn't adding much on his/her own...

One on one that blocking Magplar isn't killing anyone; a Mag Sorc can be arguably as tanky as that Magplar, but have a lot of killing potential one on one in comparison...