Buffing Warden DPS in PvE - Please read @ZOS

cpuScientist · August 2017

ZOS put all the problems from other classes into this one. A ground dot that doesn't sync up with other abilities timing like twisting path, no execute like the DK, and a 3 second burst tool like the old curse, that's too good not to use but is a main issue with the classes low dps.

I have some specific ideas on how the DPS could be increased. This could be wildly unbalanced disclaimer. The groundhog needs something either a lingering dot or a second firing. I vote a lingering dot equal to the damage of the burst but over 5-7 seconds, recasting early removes the dot, in pvp you would want the burst not the dot, so that wouldn't give them too much of a bonus there. The ice ground dot have the damage be increased and the tine shortened to 10 seconds. Again this would be meaningless in PvP as you can just move and the better morph for PvP is the root which goes of health for no real good reason. And finally just for the last 15% of health let all pet skills do 15-25% more damage. This would give it enough of a bumb to put it on par dps wise probably too much but balance it out.

Artic wind skill is trash why is it there? 20% health over 10 seconds in small bursts WTF is that? Winters embrace, every single skill is crappy almost.

Vaoh · August 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

A few things, I love the class for PvP and vMA but I don't bring it anywhere near trials, and for the first time in this game when I see one I rather leave that group than go through it. For those saying it's a good tank or a good healer. Sure in vet dungeons where warhorn is not necessary it's just fine, because of the tree. But a tank with shields or a magplar with breath is still better. But in a trial that tree is a no go and the ice ulti pales in comparison to Nova which can be placed cause a healer is not gonna always be able to stack with group. This is not enough to say meh they should have horrid dps.

Now they are good in PvP, nowhere near the best and they have some very hard counters such as roots stopping them from aiming the groundhog and invisibility being able to cancel their burst mid combo. They can put out big burst but then you have time to recover since they lack an execute and rely very heavily on ult to finish like a DK does. They have good survivability, but still not the best of the magic classes a magSorc still wins there. They are a solid class and shine in groups with classes that can finish for you.

To get the best possible do you need the bear. Which is really bad to bring in trials as a destro ult is better, and it's also bad in open world. The bear is essentially only ever good in the "fake" "meaningless" parts of the game skeleton parses and duels. In open world and trials it's nearly trash. Can't even be shielded so it's dead alot as well.

All great points and completely true. This is truly how it plays out. I agree with everything here having experienced it exactly as you have.

ZOS_Ragnar · August 2017

We have removed some comments that we purely baiting and the responses that they generated. Please ensure that your posts are adding something constructive to the discussion.

Vaoh · August 2017

Just uploaded Morrowind DPS tests @Artis hope you like em

lucky_Sage · August 2017

I think they should turn the winters embrace into a range frost dd skill line having them be crappy tank is stupid

cpuScientist · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Just uploaded Morrowind DPS tests @Artis hope you like em

Of the magden? And where?

Vaoh · August 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Just uploaded Morrowind DPS tests @Artis hope you like em

Of the magden? And where?

In the original post at the top.

Created a fourth Spoiler Tag and named it Morrowind DPS Tests.

The results basically showed that the most simple and weak non-pet Mag Sorc rotation slightly outparsed my best possible Magicka Warden parses under the same circumstances. If I added something like Curse/Boundless Storm it'd increase Sorc DPS even further over a Mag Warden. If I used a Pet Sorc (the build I run for all content in this game except for a few bosses) it makes the Magicka Warden look really, really bad.

Sums up to a hefty "OVERHAUL WINTER'S EMBRACE" cry from me.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Amazing read Voah, I don't have much to say besides that I agree with pretty much all your points, and that I think a solid step in the right drection would be to allow us to single bar the bear, this way:

SanTii.92 wrote: »

I think the first priority got to be to let the bear be single bar it. Cause it's functionality is too straight forward to occupy both ult slots, and can't really compete with the utility that brings a second ult for pvp nor the aoe for pve.

Increase proc cost to 85, move some dmge from the basic attacks to the proc, so you got to choose aoe/utility or single dmge, split the dmge into 2 hits, so it's not too oppresive for pvp, and allow us to single bar it.

Gan Xing · August 2017

I read your whole list of changes and I couldn't agree more. I really like the warden, and would like to build her closer to my playstyle. Changes such as the change to Winter's revenge would be excellent (and allow many of us who want to utilize that Ice Furnace to a better extent). I like how you changed the screaming cliff racer to hit, and go through the enemy to the one behind (kind of like the throwing dagger morph). I desperately want to have my warden be more competitive especially when I build her to be more like a hybrid. Despite that, due to her lack of competitiveness, I had to make her into a Magicka warden, and she still struggles against other classes like the sorcs (then again, I'm still getting used to a magicka build).

Hopefully the Devs will take this post into consideration, and crossing my fingers that they implement some (if not all) of your ideas, as they sound excellent.

On a side note, I feel like they can adjust one of the green tree skill lines into an attack (So we can have a poison ivy build

)

On another side note, If and when they do bring out skill crafting the warden will likely have the highest diversity of skills to potentially build, and I will have a lot of fun creating skills for my warden.

Wreuntzylla · September 2017

I can't speak to a mag warden. Post-Horns I can match the highest sorc parse with a stam warden using non-optimal gear. Very limited playstyle, though.

SanTii.92 · September 2017

Thread deserves a bump, after yet another patch where wardens seems to be left in the dust.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I can't speak to a mag warden. Post-Horns I can match the highest sorc parse with a stam warden using non-optimal gear. Very limited playstyle, though.

Sorcs are pretty bad currently, lagging behind mnbs. But it isn't them who you should be compairing stam wardens with, well unless you are running a full range build, and instead other stam, melee classes, which definetly outparses wardens, although for not that much, and at least stam wardens bring something unique to parties, aoe major breach and fracture. But it's the state of mag wardens dps which is in dire need of help.

Vaoh · September 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I can't speak to a mag warden. Post-Horns I can match the highest sorc parse with a stam warden using non-optimal gear. Very limited playstyle, though.

All Stamina DPS characters inherently have access to a bunch of powerful skills which aren't tied to their class. Magicka DPS all use skill setups which are almost entirely based on their class.

So essentially you'll find that Stam Warden is the worst Stamina class and the least wanted, though perhaps they aren't too far behind a Stam Sorc since they provide some group utility with Subterranean Assault. All Stam DPS outparse Magicka DPS but are melee-based rather than ranged so you can't really bring a full group of them to raid.

Magicka Wardens are the primary concern. Not only do they provide zero group support unless casting non-DPS skills to feel useful in some way..... they are far below any other DPS class spec. Worst DPS by a large margin+zero passive group support = completely horrendous.

Gan Xing · September 2017

Which is why I changed my Magicka Warden to a PvE tank. There I can provide the best for my team, without requiring a lot of assistance (cause I have my own self heals)

Artis · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Just uploaded Morrowind DPS tests @Artis hope you like em

No idea how I missed this. The numbers are very different, yes. I only read the text, can't watch the video atm.

That definitely needs to be fixed and I'm sure it will be. The question is - when. It definitely should be done in the next update, but I don't recall anything in patch notes..

That being said

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Sorcs are pretty bad currently, lagging behind mnbs.

NBs won't hit those numbers that sorcs hit unless 1) they themselves go lighting and support, 2) they have sorcs and healers doing lightning stuff for them being fire fire 3) they go melee grothdar etc fire-fire where they can't compete with many others anyway. Those 39k that sorcs can hit in a ranged setup on a dummy? not really. Outdpsing them in trials being fire-fire? Still requires sorc, so who cares who dps more if both will be in group. And if a choice is between one mnb or one sorc, I don't see why anyone would choose a nb. Without high minor vulnerability provided reliably only if there are sorcs..

Both are bad though compared to others.

Arbit · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Just uploaded Morrowind DPS tests @Artis hope you like em

No idea how I missed this. The numbers are very different, yes. I only read the text, can't watch the video atm.

That definitely needs to be fixed and I'm sure it will be. The question is - when. It definitely should be done in the next update, but I don't recall anything in patch notes..
That being said

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Sorcs are pretty bad currently, lagging behind mnbs.

NBs won't hit those numbers that sorcs hit unless 1) they themselves go lighting and support, 2) they have sorcs and healers doing lightning stuff for them being fire fire 3) they go melee grothdar etc fire-fire where they can't compete with many others anyway. Those 39k that sorcs can hit in a ranged setup on a dummy? not really. Outdpsing them in trials being fire-fire? Still requires sorc, so who cares who dps more if both will be in group. And if a choice is between one mnb or one sorc, I don't see why anyone would choose a nb. Without high minor vulnerability provided reliably only if there are sorcs..

Both are bad though compared to others.

ya, i was really disappointed when i excitedly went to see the warden part of the patch notes and saw what was there.