New Appreciation for Tanking

bhagwad · August 2017

So many threads on this forum talk about how a tank doesn't matter. That it's all DPS, DPS. Well as a tank myself, this was discouraging, but my faith in taking is renewed.

I started tanking a month ago, with my "main" being a healer. I quickly realized that while a healer can DPS because spell damage also affects heals, my tank would never DPS. With Ebon, Hulking etc, my job was to be a rock and keep my group safe.

Today while farming an Ebon necklance in Vet Crypt of Hearts, I decided to play my main healer for one game instead of my tank. I figured that with my healer I could also contribute to DPS and make the fights go faster. Let someone else be the tank.

Wow. What a difference a good tank makes!! We wiped over and over to the spider boss because the tank didn't do his job.

The tank we got did none of the following:

1. Didn't keep the boss in one place. Kept kiting him.
2. No Igneous Shield spam
3. No chaining ads

If the tank moves around, none of my AoE damage over time spells are going to hit properly. Without protection from igneous shields, our group was wiping again and again. And I was thinking. "Wow - tanking is underappreciated!" Screw everyone who says "You don't need a tank for dungeon content". You absolutely do! Because I see now that if my groups didn't have me, we would be spending a LOT more time dying constantly and wiping over and over. As a tank, I am an enabler for the DPS to do their jobs in peace.

I feel better about my choice of role now. "Not needed", my ass!

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

You can pretty easily 4-man DPS most dungeons (even no-death speed runs).

Having said that, if I have to pick between a tank and healer, I'll go with tank. Having someone hold aggro while I unload the deeps is great. But the most enjoyable runs are obviously 2/1/1 with each role represented (as long as the second DPS is pulling their weight).

AcadianPaladin · August 2017

I play a healer and simply adore tanks! My friend has worked relentlessly over the last few months to build an Imperial DK tank. She has trained with some real masters in her guild and has become a great tank. She and I often run as a duo for fun and, from what I see and have learned from her, your observations are spot on. It has really given me an appreciation for what should be a tight, trusting relationship between healer and tank. I've had foes chain snapped right out of my face into my tank's shield and, despite some of the horrific punishment that tank has taken, I've kept her fully healed and boosted her stam/mag.

What has really hit me though is the truth of your words about tank damage. My healer can do some respectable dps when needed but my tank friend - when equipped as a tank - literally does negligible dps. Her solution is an add-on that lets her (one key stroke when out of combat) regear/reslot into a dps capable dual wielder with bow.

paulsimonps · August 2017

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

MehrunesFlagon · August 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

paulsimonps · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

Not sure why it would be irritating, a taunt is a taunt. But I also don't get why you would chose the more expensive one to use and never use the other one. Though now that I think about it I guess the lack of the debuffs would be annoying, never mind. Personally I only use the ranged taunt if I need to.

max_only · August 2017

bhagwad wrote: »

So many threads on this forum talk about how a tank doesn't matter. That it's all DPS, DPS. Well as a tank myself, this was discouraging, but my faith in taking is renewed.

I started tanking a month ago, with my "main" being a healer. I quickly realized that while a healer can DPS because spell damage also affects heals, my tank would never DPS. With Ebon, Hulking etc, my job was to be a rock and keep my group safe.

Today while farming an Ebon necklance in Vet Crypt of Hearts, I decided to play my main healer for one game instead of my tank. I figured that with my healer I could also contribute to DPS and make the fights go faster. Let someone else be the tank.

Wow. What a difference a good tank makes!! We wiped over and over to the spider boss because the tank didn't do his job.

The tank we got did none of the following:

1. Didn't keep the boss in one place. Kept kiting him.
2. No Igneous Shield spam
3. No chaining ads

If the tank moves around, none of my AoE damage over time spells are going to hit properly. Without protection from igneous shields, our group was wiping again and again. And I was thinking. "Wow - tanking is underappreciated!" Screw everyone who says "You don't need a tank for dungeon content". You absolutely do! Because I see now that if my groups didn't have me, we would be spending a LOT more time dying constantly and wiping over and over. As a tank, I am an enabler for the DPS to do their jobs in peace.

I feel better about my choice of role now. "Not needed", my ass!

I agree tanking is FUNdamental lol

About this:
Igneous Shield Spam
Chaining adds

My tank isn't a dk and I gotten complimented on my tanking... I'm not tanking trials, just vet dungeons and below. I'm a bit jealous of your chains, but I don't feel like they are mandatory for the 4 man content I've run. (Wtb Silver Leash morph that brings the mob to me)

I find that positioning, controlling the fight, ranged taunt, maiming and a proper application of Veil of Blades/Soul Tether works for me. You can tell an experienced tank because they turn the boss away and keep the boss as still as possible.

Morgul667 · August 2017

Tanks are great

A bad tank makes dungeon a bad experience

It is easy to go without tank for simple dungeons but when the fight is real, you need one and a good one

Curragraigue · August 2017

Only really two dungeons where I like having chains. Last boss Selene and the spiders in the dark in Cradle of Shadows. Otherwise if you pull first and the DPS follow the mobs will stack without needing to waste resources pulling them.

akl77 · August 2017

That's how you lean to tank, from a dps perspective you'll know what u want the tanks to do, then do it when u r a tank.
Also, get your resistance up, without it tanks r going to move away from boss's attacks.
With enough resistance none can damage u.

Houshiki · August 2017

To OP, THANK YOU. As of late the mentality that tanks, and sometimes even healers, are not needed and only dps is, is simply becoming more and more common, especially among the newer players I'm guessing. I get the notion that more dps means faster burns and quicker dungeon clears; however, a dead dps does no dps. On the same note, forgoing a tank only really applies if the dungeon has skippable mechanics, AND that the group has enough dps to skip the mechanics.

On a side note, I greatly dislike fakes that just role as tanks for faster queues.

On the other hand, as a dps, I simply adore tanks that know what they're doing and are good at what they do.

idk · August 2017

The lower the groups dps the more important the tank doing their job is. As someone has posted, many dungeons can be one with all dps, I have cleared vCoH in HM without a tank, one of the dps slotted taunt and held the wraiths, however, it does take pretty decent dps.

A bad tank can make things worse and a good tank can greatly improve the groups survival when dps is low, and of course helps the dps actually hit the target by keeping them still.

RizzlyBear · August 2017

"my group was wiping because tank wasnt spamming igneous" god what a bunch of bollocks... Looks like you can't heal instead.

More here: "i can dps as healer" no you don't. If you're going to spam puncturing strikes then why did you sign up as healer? Your team needs buffs, your enemies need debuffs constantly and you need to keep HoTs up at all times. Your dps only comes from burning spears and wall of shocks and you need correct positioning.

Liofa · August 2017

Yeah , tanks should do their jobs , healers should do their jobs whatever .

But more importantly , I don't know which is worse . You having a really bad tank or the team not being able to survive without Igneous Shield spam ? I am sorry but all I see here is a bad team complaining about their bad tank .

TheRealPotoroo · August 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

Not sure why it would be irritating, a taunt is a taunt. But I also don't get why you would chose the more expensive one to use and never use the other one. Though now that I think about it I guess the lack of the debuffs would be annoying, never mind. Personally I only use the ranged taunt if I need to.

Pierce Armor gives Major Fracture, reducing the target's physical and spell resistance by 40% for 12 seconds. I can't understand why a tank wouldn't be keen to use it.

Fuxo · August 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

Not sure why it would be irritating, a taunt is a taunt. But I also don't get why you would chose the more expensive one to use and never use the other one. Though now that I think about it I guess the lack of the debuffs would be annoying, never mind. Personally I only use the ranged taunt if I need to.

Pierce Armor gives Major Fracture, reducing the target's physical and spell resistance by 40% for 12 seconds. I can't understand why a tank wouldn't be keen to use it.

It's because those guys are not tanks. They are DPS who queue as a tank and just slot inner fire.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

3 dps 1 tank for all vet dungeons 4ever

Thalmor-Nordmaster · August 2017

I love tanks. I have the utmost appreciation for the job they do. Thank you, Tanks !

zaria · August 2017

RizzlyBear wrote: »

"my group was wiping because tank wasnt spamming igneous" god what a bunch of bollocks... Looks like you can't heal instead.

More here: "i can dps as healer" no you don't. If you're going to spam puncturing strikes then why did you sign up as healer? Your team needs buffs, your enemies need debuffs constantly and you need to keep HoTs up at all times. Your dps only comes from burning spears and wall of shocks and you need correct positioning.

Agree on the first.

Disagree on the last, its usually just a few bosses you need to go full heal on, else keep combat prayer up, mutagen before fight, ele drain on boss. wall, if group health is good you can DD, Switch to HA at end so your magic is high before next fight.
Note however that if people die because you DD its your fail.

GreenhaloX · August 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You can pretty easily 4-man DPS most dungeons (even no-death speed runs).

Having said that, if I have to pick between a tank and healer, I'll go with tank. Having someone hold aggro while I unload the deeps is great. But the most enjoyable runs are obviously 2/1/1 with each role represented (as long as the second DPS is pulling their weight).

True.. we have ran certain vet dungeons without a tank or a real healer. When you do that queue via activity/group finder, and supposedly the rumor is when someone queues in as a tank, even though he is a dps, he would queue in faster. Yeah, you would not have the luxury of having an actual tank in the group. Whatever, happened in many occasions. We ran with it though and got through it. However, having an actual tank does make a run a bit easier; when a boss can be kept at bay (whenever possible.)

What quacks me up, though, are those that boast they don't need to block or use shield while tanking. Ha ha. What are they a super tank or something I'm not aware of as a tank? Oh, just plus up your resistance and keep buffing up and you'll be fine; as what are said. I'm sure that would fair just fine with WGT or any of those DLC vet dungeons. Heck, I would like to see a tank not blocking/using shield against the Gargoyle boss pit in Rivenspire, or Rage Claw in Eastmarch.. perhaps the Guar boss at the Bittergreen pit in Deshaan; just a few to mention for example. Not blocking or using shield up while tanking... sheesh, really.. I have a 72k hp tank with resistance in the high 20 and 30k, and certain bosses still eats up my hp while blocking/shield up.

max_only · August 2017

RizzlyBear wrote: »

"my group was wiping because tank wasnt spamming igneous" god what a bunch of bollocks... Looks like you can't heal instead.

More here: "i can dps as healer" no you don't. If you're going to spam puncturing strikes then why did you sign up as healer? Your team needs buffs, your enemies need debuffs constantly and you need to keep HoTs up at all times. Your dps only comes from burning spears and wall of shocks and you need correct positioning.

Liofa wrote: »

Yeah , tanks should do their jobs , healers should do their jobs whatever .

But more importantly , I don't know which is worse . You having a really bad tank or the team not being able to survive without Igneous Shield spam ? I am sorry but all I see here is a bad team complaining about their bad tank .

That's essentially what I was getting at, but I was trying to be deferential lol
Y'all calls em like y'all sees em!

tommalmm · August 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

Not sure why it would be irritating, a taunt is a taunt. But I also don't get why you would chose the more expensive one to use and never use the other one. Though now that I think about it I guess the lack of the debuffs would be annoying, never mind. Personally I only use the ranged taunt if I need to.

Pierce Armor gives Major Fracture, reducing the target's physical and spell resistance by 40% for 12 seconds. I can't understand why a tank wouldn't be keen to use it.

Exactly (it's 5280 though, so almost 30% not 40). And since many templar healers do not run elemental drain nowadays, but radiant aura (repentence is useless now for healers and this morph gives huge area of effect minor magickasteal, plus it aggroes enemies, so if you stack on a tank and use it, pretty much everything comes to him, ready to be taloned

), it becomes even more of an issue. Debuffs are tank's job.

It's even more annoying when tanks use ransack instead of pierce armor. I play as a tank most of the time. Believe me, if this 1k additional resistance makes any difference for you, you're not a tank.

Mondini · August 2017

For vet dungeons, you won't be needed when you (or your team mates) l2p.
You'll see

tommalmm · August 2017

Mondini wrote: »

For vet dungeons, you won't be needed when you (or your team mates) l2p.
You'll see

Tanks nor healers were never needed for vet dungeons. You can complete most of the dungeons much faster with 4xDD team. It's not as fun anymore though. Tanks bring order to the battle, healers bring comfort. I'd rather take tank and healer to have much more fun than compete the dungeon 5 minutes faster (really, with two good DDs hardmode bosses die in about a minute most of the time, mini bosses die in like 30-40 seconds tops, so moving between bosses often takes more time than killing them).

zaria · August 2017

tommalmm wrote: »

Mondini wrote: »

For vet dungeons, you won't be needed when you (or your team mates) l2p.
You'll see

Tanks nor healers were never needed for vet dungeons. You can complete most of the dungeons much faster with 4xDD team. It's not as fun anymore though. Tanks bring order to the battle, healers bring comfort. I'd rather take tank and healer to have much more fun than compete the dungeon 5 minutes faster (really, with two good DDs hardmode bosses die in about a minute most of the time, mini bosses die in like 30-40 seconds tops, so moving between bosses often takes more time than killing them).

It was some players who tested it farming dungeons, vtrial group so they was good.
Having an tank and healer role was faster as DD did not have to worry about health and slot self heal nor having to kite boss.
Yes here it was rolles, assume healer did damage almost all the time and tank might be more of an fake tank.

tommalmm · August 2017

zaria wrote: »

It was some players who tested it farming dungeons, vtrial group so they was good.
Having an tank and healer role was faster as DD did not have to worry about health and slot self heal nor having to kite boss.
Yes here it was rolles, assume healer did damage almost all the time and tank might be more of an fake tank.

It pretty much matches my results. Taking two more DDs (4xDD run) gives most of the time only like 30-60% more dps (so it's nowhere near double). Especially if there are magsorcs in a group. Their most hard hitting ground ability (liquid lightning) has an awfully small radius. If a DD that has an aggro even as much as dodges an attack, the boss is out of it.

DocFrost72 · August 2017

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

I Tank 95% of the time, Tanked since Beta of ESO. The few times I go on my Healer or DPS it can be extremely noticeable when you get a bad tank or a less than great one. Things are not always taunted, things are not stacked or CC'ed, not as much support. I like Tanking, and seeing how bad it can be sometimes without a good tank makes me stay on my main a lot more, though I do on occasion train new tanks in Trials where there can be 2 tanks, so they can watch and learn while I show.

One thing I'm noticing alot of tanks doing lately is never using the sword and board taunt.Only inner fire.This gets extremely irritating.

If you see a 17k health medium armor bosmer taunt then hold the boss in place without ever dying, using dual wield and bow you found my alt account. Cheers.

paulsimonps · August 2017

bhagwad · August 2017

RizzlyBear wrote: »

"my group was wiping because tank wasnt spamming igneous" god what a bunch of bollocks... Looks like you can't heal instead.

More here: "i can dps as healer" no you don't. If you're going to spam puncturing strikes then why did you sign up as healer? Your team needs buffs, your enemies need debuffs constantly and you need to keep HoTs up at all times. Your dps only comes from burning spears and wall of shocks and you need correct positioning.

I don't use puncturing sweeps as a healer. I only place down DoTs and heavy attacks. We were wiping on the spider fight because everyone was moving around too much since the AoE moves with you and if you get close to your teammates, they get one shotted by "Creeping winter".

So why were people moving around so much (including the tank)? Because they're following the boss who was following the tank. And because they were kiting ads that were not being chained in or otherwise aggroed by the tank. That included me!

Bottom line. The tank reduces the need for people to move around a lot, kite adds, or follow/evade the boss. This ups their DPS, not to mention keeping the boss and adds in a nice tight AoE circle for everyone to burn down.

Edit: Oh, and also if everyone is moving around, my job as a healer becomes much harder since I can't spam cheap AoE heals like Healing Springs efficiently and have to rely on expensive BoL casts. Actually, many end game healers don't like to use Rapid Regen/Mutagen, but I'm thinking that for groups that scatter all over the place, it's really an excellent option...

A tank brings stability to a fight. Predictability. Order.

Tan9oSuccka · August 2017

It's truly a Group effort for group content.

The best groups know their role, class and do it well.

Sadly, most Vet pugs are light bow spammers or 2h executioner using Mag Sorcs.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2017

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

I love tanks. I have the utmost appreciation for the job they do. Thank you, Tanks !

^This. I have no patience for being a tank myself, but I can recall at least one Trial run saved because a good tank was willing to jump in when people were dropping.