Tanking is totally and completely out of control.

Cathexis · August 2017

Combat is like hitting each other with toothpicks while wearing a panic room.

W T F is going on with pvp. Dial back the tanking holee [Snip]. Like 5 patches now nothing but tanks, when are we going to see some real fighting again? Ever?

I want to have hope for it ZoS, I really do, but you are just blatantly favouring large scale to a point of such excess that you can walk up to a fight, count how many players there are, and walk away based on the numbers.

It is really like that. Its just counting. The strongest pvp strategy you can employ is just to count and come back later when your numbers are better.

Why do you want it to suck like this? I don't understand.

[Edit to remove profanity]

Tigeracer · August 2017

Battlegrounds is designed for those who want to play small scale. It makes perfect sense to need more numbers to take castles.

Waffennacht · August 2017

Not our fault we don't wanna get ganked every 6 seconds

Datolite · August 2017

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Alphaa · August 2017

Join a guild and fight them with organisation.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

Cathexis · August 2017

Alphaa wrote: »

Join a guild and fight them with numbers.

Is what you really mean.

Cathexis · August 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

This what has killed solo play. When you need a whole group of different players to counter possible builds, you are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

This what has killed solo play. When you need a whole group of different players to counter possible builds, you are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

Chess is very strategic. And no that's not an issue if they can't kill you bc on group play they sac damage for utility hopefully. If you're strategically dumb enough to attack the block tank in pvp they did thier job.

My favorite thing to do is kill a group that has a bs tank in it, saving the blazing shield for last so he can run around uselessly while his friends die.

Tanks have a big effect in certain situations and battle types though. Not everyone should be a dps machine that burns out in 15 seconds. That IS good game design imo.

Cathexis · August 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

This what has killed solo play. When you need a whole group of different players to counter possible builds, you are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

Chess is very strategic. And no that's not an issue if they can't kill you bc on group play they sac damage for utility hopefully. If you're strategically dumb enough to attack the block tank in pvp they did thier job.

My favorite thing to do is kill a group that has a bs tank in it, saving the blazing shield for last so he can run around uselessly while his friends die.

Tanks have a big effect in certain situations and battle types though. Not everyone should be a dps machine that burns out in 15 seconds. That IS good game design imo.

Ok great you want to tank fine but tanking is no longer even remotely close to proportionally balanced to damage builds. The team organization may be strategic, but the play itself is not when you can just blockheal indefinitely. Tanking should require more use of skill and should have its weaknesses just like any other strategic focus should. Its the reason nightblades face detect pots and stam sorcs are bashable. Tanks are currently infallible if built certain ways.

idk · August 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Alphaa wrote: »

Join a guild and fight them with numbers.

Is what you really mean.

No, he meant organization. Skill and tactics.

Biro123 · August 2017

Next patch is just over the horizon - with a bunch of stuff already in it to help alleviate the problem the op is having..

See this all the time...

Patch changes Y which indirectly (but intentionally) heavily nerfs X..
Players don't understand the changes and scream for more nerfs on X..

Multiple forum threads ensure for multiple pages.

Er, Oh yeah, "Nerf sorcs, Woo!"

TL;DR Just let the patch play out and settle in and THEN see if you think the nerf-bat needs to swing again.

DeadlyRecluse · August 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

You are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

....not sure I follow your analogy. Chess is pretty great.

But on-topic, I haven't seen many tanks this patch that can't be killed eventually. And those that are out there, are usually safe to ignore.

Kartalin · August 2017

Generally if a tank can't be killed, they're not going to kill you either. This wasn't always the case before. Just use them for ultigen.

SugaComa · August 2017

Tigeracer wrote: »

Battlegrounds is designed for those who want to play small scale. It makes perfect sense to need more numbers to take castles.

While I kind of agree, I think the OP is correct with his sentiment

Tanking is beyond a joke

The other night 12 people where seiging when a team of tanks turned up they were pretty much unkillable, we managed to kill a 2 maybe 3 of them of them if they got separated from group n all 12 of us burst them down but it should not take 12 men to kill one player

That is unbalanced

Especially when all they were doing is spamming sheilds and negate

They basically make you burn your resources until a pothead hankering comes n finishes you

QuebraRegra · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Not our fault we don't wanna get ganked every 6 seconds

nobody likes the current TTK meta, but I have to salute that you build to counter yet another meta. That's far better than those who complain about gankers yet take no precautions in their builds (a L2P issue).

respect.

rimmidimdim · August 2017

The OP is right, tanking is redonkulous. But the answer next patch is, Nerf spell and armor penetration. Wtf? Oh Oblivion glyphs, that's right, the meta, have fun with infused and torugs, a three trait item set. But the real problem has always been block casting. But idk how to fix it cause remove it changes pve balance and shite.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2017

I call them Lead Piñatas and everyone is swinging but nobody is getting candy .

paulsimonps · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Not our fault we don't wanna get ganked every 6 seconds

yea, I laugh when someone try to gank my tank. I usually end up killing them. Unless I get hit by multiple gankers at the same time..... which for some reason is a thing. 3 stam NB at the same time out of nowhere.....

But my tank build is specialized in killing magicka toons so I am kind of ok with getting killed by stamina toons. I can kill some of them but I made my tank a mage killer on purpose.

Lexxypwns · August 2017

HotR is going to be hardcore tank meta in PVP too. Most of the best burst tools are getting nerfed.

As it stands you can basically tank forever against several pugs even in light armor on live, next patch TTK will likely be much higher.

TBH, higher TTK is good, we just need to adjust the outliers that allow for stupid things. That includes unbalanced amounts of both tankiness and burst.

I mean, riposte trans bloodspawn with resto ult is as tank as most heavy builds, riposte alone shuts down most gankblades

nCats · August 2017

I have a suggestion which can be added to battle spirit, or maybe even to the whole game though I doubt it. Probably nothing new.

The suggestion is to add ``block fatigue''. The cost of block should increase gradually if there has recently been damage taken under block, with this debuff dropping after 1 second of non-block or so. Alternatively, do the same thing with diminishing the amount of damage blocked.

Honestly, I would add such mechanics to some other abilities as well, like gap closers (some NB should really learn about other skills than spambush) or rework streak (so that triple streak gets even more expensive than double etc). Even the main spammables maybe need some of that, but that I'm undecided on.

Otherwise yes, HoTR will mean Heals on Tanks Rule (in pvp).

Brutusmax1mus · August 2017

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

This what has killed solo play. When you need a whole group of different players to counter possible builds, you are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

Chess is very strategic. And no that's not an issue if they can't kill you bc on group play they sac damage for utility hopefully. If you're strategically dumb enough to attack the block tank in pvp they did thier job.

My favorite thing to do is kill a group that has a bs tank in it, saving the blazing shield for last so he can run around uselessly while his friends die.

Tanks have a big effect in certain situations and battle types though. Not everyone should be a dps machine that burns out in 15 seconds. That IS good game design imo.

Ok great you want to tank fine but tanking is no longer even remotely close to proportionally balanced to damage builds. The team organization may be strategic, but the play itself is not when you can just blockheal indefinitely. Tanking should require more use of skill and should have its weaknesses just like any other strategic focus should. Its the reason nightblades face detect pots and stam sorcs are bashable. Tanks are currently infallible if built certain ways.

This game was built around huge battles, i think that's why tanks are what they are and need to be able to get that way. It does hinder small scale some in cp campaigns but in bg and no cp i haven't encountered a tank my group couldn't kill.

Scyantific · August 2017

SugaComa wrote: »

Tigeracer wrote: »

Battlegrounds is designed for those who want to play small scale. It makes perfect sense to need more numbers to take castles.

They basically make you burn your resources until a pothead hankering comes n finishes you

You literally just described the purpose of a Tank in PvP. If you're dumb enough to burn your resources on a tank then you deserve to get ganked/murked by their teammates.

Hurika · August 2017

rimmidimdim wrote: »

The OP is right, tanking is redonkulous. But the answer next patch is, Nerf spell and armor penetration. Wtf? Oh Oblivion glyphs, that's right, the meta, have fun with infused and torugs, a three trait item set. But the real problem has always been block casting. But idk how to fix it cause remove it changes pve balance and shite.

PVE block = 360 degrees
PVP block = 180 degrees

1v1 the tank can/should still be able to block most things. Against 10 others perma blocking will require positioning and more skill.

The survivability of HA is not so much of a problem as the DPS someone running in HA can do. I'm fine with people that are super tanky but the ones that do crazy damage is where the problem comes in.

Artis · August 2017

OP is right, though. Just like we got sustain nerfed because if we constantly cast apparently we must run out of resources, no tank should be able to tank indefinitely long. They must crack at some point (however long it takes) even if only 1 player is attacking. Faster - if more than 1.

Reverb · August 2017

I play a very tanky Templar sometimes. I have gotten lots of hate, and have been called "unkillable" and been accused of cheating several times. BUT, I can also name a lot of players who have no problem killing me, and do so often.

My point, every build in pvp will work well against some builds, and not against others. There's room for gankers, bomb-blades, tanks, high mobility damage dealers, healers, and other roles in Cyrodiil, and there people filling all of those roles. You can't expect to do well against all of them.

SugaComa · August 2017

Scyantific wrote: »

SugaComa wrote: »

Tigeracer wrote: »

Battlegrounds is designed for those who want to play small scale. It makes perfect sense to need more numbers to take castles.

They basically make you burn your resources until a pothead hankering comes n finishes you

You literally just described the purpose of a Tank in PvP. If you're dumb enough to burn your resources on a tank then you deserve to get ganked/murked by their teammates.

You're right ... but in dungeons it's like 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DDs

In PvP it's 22 man group

With 2 healers 2 DDs and 18 tanks

It's just *** and boring, especially when there seems to be no balancing ratio to combat it

Personally I feel there should be speed penalties

Heavy armour users should move slow and and increase skill cast time.but have higher health regen

Medium users get medium speed but can sustain stamina regen longer and light user while can run fastest will be getting Magicka regen so won't be able to sustain long runs this means light and medium players could at least out manuevre the thanks to get some damage bursts in

It isn't an exact fix but it's an idea cos something does need to change

Durham · August 2017

Almost perma block Tanks = no threat ...

Meanwhile people complain less about night blade proc builds ... Or a Sorc that seems like he endlessly streak across the map and damage shield himself constantly making himself crazy hard to kill ... or stacking of Destro -Ultimates ...Gap closing with destro ults.. Or stacking of healing to the point the server starts show latency... or block casters that can block for a while but still do very good damage without compromising themselves....

There are so many PVP issues in the game... I literally cant list all of them but the tanking issue is way back on my list... why ....because they dont affect anything except potatoes that want to beat on them for some reason.....

Why do we want to look at a build that can do very little to the outcome of a fight or kill anyone ... They just troll around and pick flowers .... IGNORE THEM KILL EVERY ONE AROUND THEM THEN KILL THE TANK! its not that hard to do! use fear and focus your DPS ... if you cant kill him after that let him go troll around who cares ........he cant do anything ...

a1i3nz · August 2017

Tanking out of control? How? Don't fight tanks duh.

I don't understand what people like about playing that way. Scrubbiest playstyle. If you wanna cheese out make a bomber it's way more fun making groups explode than doing nothing but holding block.

MurderMostFoul · August 2017

This is likely one of the main reasons ZOS is leaning towards no-CP.

Cathexis · August 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It does make you scratch your head when 3 of you are bursting some impregnable dude and he just stands there blocking and casting the odd heal/shield.

Stop fighting him or have your group be diversified enough to handle this.

This what has killed solo play. When you need a whole group of different players to counter possible builds, you are basically playing chess with people and that has sucked all the joy out of combat.

Chess is very strategic. And no that's not an issue if they can't kill you bc on group play they sac damage for utility hopefully. If you're strategically dumb enough to attack the block tank in pvp they did thier job.

My favorite thing to do is kill a group that has a bs tank in it, saving the blazing shield for last so he can run around uselessly while his friends die.

Tanks have a big effect in certain situations and battle types though. Not everyone should be a dps machine that burns out in 15 seconds. That IS good game design imo.

Ok great you want to tank fine but tanking is no longer even remotely close to proportionally balanced to damage builds. The team organization may be strategic, but the play itself is not when you can just blockheal indefinitely. Tanking should require more use of skill and should have its weaknesses just like any other strategic focus should. Its the reason nightblades face detect pots and stam sorcs are bashable. Tanks are currently infallible if built certain ways.

This game was built around huge battles, i think that's why tanks are what they are and need to be able to get that way. It does hinder small scale some in cp campaigns but in bg and no cp i haven't encountered a tank my group couldn't kill.

Thats sort of a false assumption though its initial inception showed a comparatively more balanced dynamic between roles and it only in recent design shifted to a more tank orriented dynamic where you musy run tank or some sort of group utility build.

I think the problem is that a lot of play styles hinge on the group now because fighting tanks, especially tank groups, is so draining, and that this has destroyed most potential for non-tank solo engagement.

Not only that but the dynamic highly discourages making attempts to engage in combat - the thing I think we can agree we are generally all here to do.

I think the most accurate words I can put it in is that tanking is out of control in that it is disproportionately making grouping a must-do to derive enjoyment from pvp.