When is it safe to do veteran dungeons?

HorrorShow · August 2017

I have done a few normal dungeons, but they seem to just be run and spam AOE. So not really a learning experience. Was hoping the normal dungeon boss fights would have the same mechanics with reduced damage but they end too fast to pick up on anything meaningful.

I just don't want to hop into a veteran and be causing wipes because I didn't know I had to skip backwards while reciting the Red Diamond song in order to become immune to the Skald Lich's AOE shot.

I am champion level 170 dps.

MercTheMage · August 2017

Imo, cp 300 for dps, tad less for heals or tank.
That being said, I have done dungeons with low cp people who did incredibly well, also it depends on which dungeons.
Like vaults is a cakewalk on vet, as is CoH1 and CoA1. @axbom and I have 2 manned all of the above on vet HM, so if you're itching to try out vets, start with those. They don't have many/any mechanics that are overly complicated to cause frustration.
Only thing that comes to mind, is the first boss on vVaults, when he beams someone, stop all DPS cause it reflects damage, other than that, you should be fine.

Reverb · August 2017

It depends on the dungeon. Vet Wayrest Sewers 1, for example, can be easily completed by low cp groups. Others, including EH1, BC1, COA1, COH1 are slightly more complex but still doable for low cp. Don't try any of the '2' or DLC dungeons on vet difficulty until at least CP 160 with solid, top tier gear - preferably also with some understanding of those mechanics, either from knowing it well on normal, or even from youtube videos.

Many people don't like to group with anyone lower than cp300 for vet dungeons, so that some perspective as well.

SilentRaven1972 · August 2017

If you are running with a group of very experienced, well-geared players, they can burn a normal dungeon in no time. I'm a "play my way" person, so will never have top gear or DPS, but I'm not horrible (usually ). Find people like that, or those with less experience. Friends or guildies that won't judge if things go wrong in a vet dungeon are also good. With the right group, either type of dungeon can be fun and a learning experience.

LadyNalcarya · August 2017

Well, if you can do 10-15k dps, you can start vet dungeons (its better to pick the ones marked as "1", like Fungal Grotto 1). Some dungeons (most of them, actually) dont have any mechanics or dps checks whatsoever, but veteran bosses typically have a lot of health, especially if someone activates a "hardmode" scroll on the last boss.
And yeah, vet Fungal Grotto 1 is a good place to start, thats probably the easiest one.
It also helps if you are a part of a friendly guild that can teach you the basics.

idk · August 2017

Played skill is more relevant than CP. the challenge of normal dungeons are fairly light and so not really do much to prepare oneself.

Considering that the dungeons are more challenging during the first few months of the game and I was clearly the v1-5 dungeons as soon as I reached get level and the v6-10 dungeons well before hitting that's level I wouldn't be to concerned.

Ge a group of friends or guildies together and start doing them. Set this way so they can explain mechanics to help out.

Everstorm · August 2017

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

Saint314Louis1985 · August 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

i roll a tad over 17k but thats on a sorc with access to hardened ward.

LadyNalcarya · August 2017

@Everstorm wrote: »

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

Hp? Around 17-18k is ok. However, if youre pugging, you might be grouped with really... special healers and tanks, so I'd recommend slotting shield (hardened ward, harness magicka) or some kind of self-heal.

zaria · August 2017

CP160 is good enough if you have an decent rotation and decent gear, as in two relevant sets.
Or more relevant if you have no issues in nRoM and nICP you are ready for veteran.

The easier is about as hard as normal ROM or ICP, Wayrest sewer 1 and 2 is very easy.
Some like Banish cell 1 is harder than you expect because an one shot mechanism, 2 is easier.
However overall the easiest in normal are easiest in veteran so work you list down.

Best advice is to run with friends first, I have done most of the non dlc ones, but only pug the easier in vet.
Pug groups tend to fold pretty easy and they can have bad players.

Jamini · August 2017

Vet HM Non-DL - CP160 (You can do it earlier. But this is the minimum CP for geardrops)
Vet HM DLC - CP300 (You can do it earlier. Player ability matters GREATLY for DLC content)

Recommended Minimum Tank HP: 30k+ (Some players recommend meatbag builds. Personally I stick to about 32k with as much support as I can slot as stacking up to 60k health only gives e a 5k team shield. Which is *** and makes my sustain ***. Ult gen or Ebon + Alkosh is sooo much better.)
Recommended Minimum healer HP: 18-19k
Recommended Minimum DPS HP: 16k

Everstorm wrote: »

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

Dear god no. If a DPS is going over 20k health then I'm going to privately question them. If you are up to 25k health I'm going to publicly question you.

MyKillv2.0 · August 2017

16,17k is fine for magic. Shield is a great thing.

Stam, I like to push my health to 18-20k since I do not have shields and if I PUG, I do not know the quality of healer I will get (or if I am stuck with a Mag Sorc who wants to DPS by que as a healer). 20k at very most will keep you alive in all vetDGs sans the DLC ones. For those, I would not attempt to attempt to PUG.

Bladerunner1 · August 2017

It depends on your class, equipment and the build you follow. For instance a CP170 stamblade following end-game dual wield builds will have really bad AOE DPS and a rougher experience overall compared to pretty much any other class and build.

Brrrofski · August 2017

It depends.

I joined the NA server after two years almost on EU server and was doing hard vet dungeons at CP 170. I got to the last round of VMA at cp180 with agility, spriggans and some other crap.

Practice will trump champion points and perfect gear. A combination of both is obviously ideal. As long as you can pull 15k DPS you'll be fine for most. Try to see if a guild members has a target dummy. Practice your rotations on it.

Don't bother before cp160 at all. No point getting a helm that'll be no use shortly.

17k health is usually enough if you know mechanics. Anything up to like 19k is ok to start with while you learn mechanics. Surviving one shot is better than potentially pulling an extra 1k dps but spend half the fight dead because you didn't know the mechanics.

Strider_Roshin · August 2017

Depends on player skill, build, and class.

I logged into my magsorc yesterday for the first time since Morrowind launched, and beat vMA.

After it was all said and done I checked my Champion point distribution, and realized I had 210 CPs waiting to be distributed.

Now am I a skillful player? Yes.

Was my build good? Most definitely.

Was my class innately good at soloing difficult content? Absolutely.

Honestly if I were you I would try vet content as soon as you got CP160. If you do terrible, ask for constructive criticism, look up guides, and try to improve your build/skill.

QuebraRegra · August 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

@Everstorm wrote: »

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

Hp? Around 17-18k is ok. However, if youre pugging, you might be grouped with really... special healers and tanks, so I'd recommend slotting shield (hardened ward, harness magicka) or some kind of self-heal.

luv this... by "speacial" you mean fake right? My favs are tankwolves with no taunt, and healers without resto staff.. or heals.

tommalmm · August 2017

It's less about level and more about general experience and basic game mechanics knowledge. I've seen cp200 players pulling ~30k dps and avoiding damage like a pro (but I'm sure these were either alt accounts or some US or Aus guys playing on EU server).

As for mechanics. Most people will gladly sum it up for you if you openly say it's your first time on vet in this dungeon... If there are any mechanics other than "avoid red, do as much damage as you can". As for DPS - anything above 12k is fine for most vet dungeons. I've completed most of the easier vet dungeons (on a tank) with as low GROUP dps as 12-15k (but all these runs took some time, in some cases even with me soloing the last 20% - what else can you do if people die the moment you ress them to some aoe or oneshots?).

I did my first vet when I was ~cp250. It was vCOA2 (got a perfect heavy divine skoria helmet then). We were doing normal pledge. Heal asked if I wanted to do vet, because we're doing good. I wrote that I've never done anything vet yet, so the healer explained what to do before every fight. We wiped only twice at skoria then (not due to the lack of platforms). Healer explained to tank things like chaining adds to the boss to make it easier, tanking near the end of a platform, etc. Then we did it no prob. I was doing only ~23-24k dps then.

The next time I was low CP (when I started on PS4), I started with vet dungeons the moment I've turned vet (cp10). But I had no issues getting 20k dps even a little bit before lv50. It must've been odd to see a cp50 with ilambris procing

(though I've died very spectacularily in the first few seconds of the fight once in vVOM HM - the guys didn't bother to ress me then - felt bad - I've played it cool though with "That was sure a very short fight for me").

SirCritical · August 2017

The former version no.2 dungeons are harder than the others (non-DLC), so they need some CP, sure, but the others are doable from CP10.

Saturn · August 2017

HorrorShow wrote: »

I have done a few normal dungeons, but they seem to just be run and spam AOE. So not really a learning experience. Was hoping the normal dungeon boss fights would have the same mechanics with reduced damage but they end too fast to pick up on anything meaningful.

I just don't want to hop into a veteran and be causing wipes because I didn't know I had to skip backwards while reciting the Red Diamond song in order to become immune to the Skald Lich's AOE shot.

I am champion level 170 dps.

Honestly I'd say 160 since then you wouldn't be at a gear disadvantage. People usually want max cp players in their groups, but honestly, what makes you a good dps isn't the number next to your name, since I've been with several max level players who had no clue what they were doing.

In terms of mechanics, if it's something you're not famliar with just ask your group, most people are usually cool with telling you what things to avoid, and those who aren't, well f**k those guys, lol.

I think instead of fretting about what could potentially happen you should just take the chance and try it out. Although, if you can, try to avoid the dlc dungeons to begin with since they are pretty rough if you don't have any experience with other vet dungeons.

I kind of hate the split to normal and veteran dungeons they did a while back, since it's creating scenarios like these where people are too afraid of being berated if they try out the harder content. Like some people just feed off of making new players feel bad, forgetting that they were in that position once.

drakhan2002_ESO · August 2017

It's usually safe if you have a well balanced party of 300+ CP players. A tank, a healer, and 2 DPS. Your mileage may vary depending on the skill of the players involved, but most vet content, other than trials, can be successfully completed with that group make up.

Feel free to awesome me.

neal_brasier · August 2017

Like everyone has said you're prob fine to go in now if you half know what you're doing. I definitely agree run with guildies first if you can it's just a much more enjoyable experience than pugging.
I was in a vet dungeon once and we had a cp80 tank come in someone started a vote kick which I ignored at first not going to kick someone without giving them a chance, I'll tell you what this cp80 tank was amazing held agro on everything no problem at all. Then I've been in dungeons with max cp players that are awful.go in give it a try and if you pug tell people at the start it's your first time doing this dungeon on vet and hopefully they'll be understanding.

Magdalina · August 2017

Imo they're fine to try at cp 10 if you have a grasp on game mechanics(10k+ dps if dps, healing skills if healer, taunt and s&b if tank, know how to block, dodge and bash) and relevant gear(crafted gear of your level/10-20 cp behind will do, Julianos for magicka dps, NMG/Hunding's for stam, Seducer for healer, perhaps Hist Bark for tank...something along these lines). They're definitely fine at cp 160+.

Thing is the way to learn to do vet dungeons is, well, to do vet dungeons. As you noticed, normals don't prepare you whatsoever and nothing in the open world does either. Well you could try soloing WB but this is not a very good test of possible group performance, though it generally is a good situational awareness test.

I'd strongly advise you to find a guild or group of friends(through game or forums) that wouldn't mind running with you for your first few runs til you get the hang of it. Some people can be pretty mean when instead of speedrun gear farm they have to wait for others and explain stuff to them, though personally I love explaining stuff to those willing to listen.

Dungeons I/no number are generally easiest mechanics wise, dungeons II tend to be harder and dlc dungeons are the most mechanics heavy ones. Good luck!

If you're pc na I could run something with you if you don't find anyone and don't feel like trusting a full pug, I've barely been doing any dungeons lately so getting rusty here

Asardes · August 2017

CP160 for the base game ones
CP300 for DLC ones

Bbsample197 · August 2017

as Long as you know the mechanics of the dgn youre fine, ive run with ppl which are 160+ and theyre more than capable carrying out their own weight, heck ive met more 630+ ppl who dont know what the hell to do on WGT (just what the hell did they do to their cp)
Hardmode is in differently level tho, if youre a dps, probably a minimun of 15k dps, could get you through some rough patches

Integral1900 · August 2017

Why bother, stick to normal and play builds that are fun, not those boring as heck meta things

The loot is mostly vendor trash and as far as monster sets go... well... I ran hundreds of vet dungeons and never got devines or infused on anything! Including the 5 piece sets! Just let that settle in... thousands of items and not one was divines or infused!!!

Stuff it, I'm playing my way and leaving the masochists to bang their heads on the walls of rng

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Why bother, stick to normal and play builds that are fun, not those boring as heck meta things

The loot is mostly vendor trash and as far as monster sets go... well... I ran hundreds of vet dungeons and never got devines or infused on anything! Including the 5 piece sets! Just let that settle in... thousands of items and not one was divines or infused!!!

Stuff it, I'm playing my way and leaving the masochists to bang their heads on the walls of rng

While I agree with you, loot and dungeon finder issues are mostly why i quit running dungeons almost of the time. But Normal dungeons are just way to boring on a well built character.

Even off meta. unless you go out of your way to make a truely horrible build you really shouldn't have much issue in a normal. But I guess they are normally quick and painless.

Ihatenightblades · August 2017

When i join random groups i wont stay in group unless everybody is atleast CP160.

So you are good as long as you use cp160 gear.
My friend just started playing hes a CP230 hes a stam NB and hes done everybvet dungeon with me besides ICP ROM and COS.

My main suggestions would be make sure to get down a full rotation that does good aoe and single target damage.

For example if you are stam build dont forget to drop caltrops endless hail deadly cloak whirlwind. Aoe's are important because ver dungeons mobs have high health sometimes so you want good aoe damage.

If you are magicka sorc or another mage run 2 destro .

I can hook you up with a nice pve build what class are you?

rotaugen454 · August 2017

I've made it through vet dungeons with people who are sub-100 CP but it was a real grind with a few wipes. HM is another animal entirely, and you really wanna be pushing CP cap to put out the numbers necessary without wiping over and over on the final boss.

idk · August 2017

And to put into perspective how little CP actually means. With a complete random group in a vet dungeon the healer dropped after no one voted with him to kick the CP100 deeps. We queued for a replacement healer and moved on. The other deeps was not CP capped but pretty high and ran regen for heals.

So CP 110, CP 530 and myself as a true tank build at the CP cap. Cleared the dungeon without getting a healer replacement with only one death. Oh, BtW, that low CP deeps has never done the dungeon.

As long as peeps are decent with avoiding damage and handling the mechanics it's fine. Expect some players looking for high CP to kick you from random groups. It's not really a statement about you but more that the probably need to chance getting an extreemly solid player to carry them. The forums are full of threads by these types.

O_LYKOS · August 2017

Probably mentioned but I'd recommend sticking to ones such as Wayrest sewers I, Darkshade Caverns I, and so on. Avoid the II versions and DLC versions for now.

WuffyCerulei · August 2017

I think you're ready. However, do a little digging around on builds and stuff. Do research. If you're a DPS, practice your rotation some. Vet dungeons require more than spamming the 3 abilities over and over. I wouldn't start any DLC vet dungeons yet, cuz they're a bit more tedious that non-DLC ones.