When is it safe to do veteran dungeons?

AlMcFly

As a healer, almost every pug I play in Vet mode, I see at least one player whose max health is between 11k - 14k. If you enter Vet with this low health pool, don't get salty if you die a lot. I'm not going to spam BoL, depleting my entire magicka pool, just to keep you at full health when every single hit you take puts you under 10% health.

P.S. It's generally accepted that 16k health is bare minimum you want for Vet.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

AlMcFly wrote: »

As a healer, almost every pug I play in Vet mode, I see at least one player whose max health is between 11k - 14k. If you enter Vet with this low health pool, don't get salty if you die a lot. I'm not going to spam BoL, depleting my entire magicka pool, just to keep you at full health when every single hit you take puts you under 10% health.

P.S. It's generally accepted that 16k health is bare minimum you want for Vet.

I love those guys. Get to watch them get one shot over and over. It is like a little mini game. No wammy, no wammy, stop!! Ohh sorry...

SoLooney

recommended lvl is cp 630 and if you dont light attack or heavy attack spam

Betsararie

After 160 cp for the I dungeons.

After 250 for the II dungeons.

After 300 for the dlc dungeons.

PlagueSD

cp160 for vet dungeons just because it'll be a waste of gear for anything below that. Strive for at least 18k health starting out. If you're going to pug, I'd slot some self heals, or try for at least 20k health.

cp level has nothing to do with being able to run vet dungeons. It's all skill. If you know your rotation and know basic mechanics (don't stand in stupid), you'll be fine. I've run vet dungeons with cp600+ players that sucked. There are plenty of guides out there so you can see the boss fights.

If you don't feel comfortable pugging, run with some friends/guildies. That way you won't feel rushed and they can explain the mechanics to you.

Sunah

Depends on if you are running with friends or not. But if you are pugging.. Make sure you are 160cp+ and have atleast a decent set of gear and have a great understanding on your class and a proper rotation going. Go to someones house with a training dummy and slap that thing with a good rotation till you are atleast 15k+ minimum. Unless you are a healer than just have a good skill set up and enough spell damage to make them heals hit hard enough.

max_only

Because of the loud obnoxious voices of the forum whiners I didn't start pugging until cp300 and didn't really run vets until cp 400. Only to find out every pug whiner I've met in game just wanted to be carried, in my opinion. We can do the content without their sour grapes.

I didnt tell people it's my first time in a dungeon until we were well in.

Then again I either am on my tank or my healer and their roles are pretty standard from game to game in the mmo genre.

Every tank I've ever played: taunt big boys, bring them to a corner, keep them faced away from group, keep an eye on healer health in case adds/ mini-boys take an interest in the healer.

Every healer I've ever played: buff em, heal em, debuff the mobs and keep the team in line of sight. Apply damage only when in the clear. Keep the tank in your pocket, the dps get the scraps from the dinner table.

Dps: don't stand right next to tank or you will get crushed. Keep an eye on healer health so you can burn adds off the healer like a tick off a dog. Keep it moving, standing still kills. Run toward the healer when n trouble not away from the healer. Rez when the big boy is distracted.

This simple logic applies to every single mmorpg in existence.

Individual fights have mechanics that can be learned/figured out on the fly. SOMEONE had to run that dungeon for the first time, it ain't rocket science. Yes, "trial and error" will frustrate the speed runners but who cares about them and their "this game is now my job" attitudes? If they were really concerned they could say, "who hasn't done this fight?" right before and save themselves the headache.


Once I met a cp 200some in CoA and they didn't have the pledge quest. It can't be shared. They went to Grahtwood and wasted our time looking around the whole city for it. only to find out they never did the first Undaunted quest, never opened up the quest mail at lvl 45. So not only were they wasting our time with dolmen light attack fighting technique, they were a brand new player not an alt and never did a single quest. In the entire game.

Cp means nothing to me honestly. I can make a better judgement by the first trash pull. Spin-to-winners always get my stink eye until I see them clean up.

AlMcFly

max_only wrote: »

I didnt tell people it's my first time in a dungeon until we were well in.

I hope you spoke up when people asked.

Every dungeon I join, I ask in the beginning if anyone is new to the dungeon. I usually get nothing but silence. 3 out of 4 times, we get to a mechanics driven boss and I notice there is at least one person in the group who does NOT know said mechanics. I then call them out and ask why they didn't tell us earlier when specifically asked if they were new.

P*sses me off every time. People pretending like they know something hoping to slide by undetected.

ArchMikem

[*] Do you wear gear sets? ✓

[*] Do you have at least 160CP so you can wear level cap gear? ✓

[*] Do you play the game using skill rotations instead of just spamming light attacks? ✓

[*] Do you NOT stand in stupid (red circles)? ✓

If you have those things checked off I think you'll be good.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Well, if you can do 10-15k dps, you can start vet dungeons (its better to pick the ones marked as "1", like Fungal Grotto 1). Some dungeons (most of them, actually) dont have any mechanics or dps checks whatsoever, but veteran bosses typically have a lot of health, especially if someone activates a "hardmode" scroll on the last boss.
And yeah, vet Fungal Grotto 1 is a good place to start, thats probably the easiest one.
It also helps if you are a part of a friendly guild that can teach you the basics.

This is good advise -
You can do vet dungeon as cp 160 and only 10-15k sustained DPS will do on non vet dlc dungeons.

Make sure you you have 17-18k health minimum and you must have AOE DPS, don't be that guy spamming 1 single target move on a big ad pull.

max_only

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I didnt tell people it's my first time in a dungeon until we were well in.

I hope you spoke up when people asked.

Every dungeon I join, I ask in the beginning if anyone is new to the dungeon. I usually get nothing but silence. 3 out of 4 times, we get to a mechanics driven boss and I notice there is at least one person in the group who does NOT know said mechanics. I then call them out and ask why they didn't tell us earlier when specifically asked if they were new.

P*sses me off every time. People pretending like they know something hoping to slide by undetected.

Quote:
If they were really concerned they could say, "who hasn't done this fight?" right before and save themselves the headache

Again, forum whiners made it a much bigger deal than it is. And I know, KNOW, that had I opened each dungeon with "never been here before" it would have been immediate kick in some groups. Which is why I waited so long to do them in the first place. Forum whiners don't see the inherent paradox of asking people to know the dungeon before they play the dungeon. Everyone had a first time, no one went to "Play ESO school". People want the game to have a vibrant population but scoff when it's time to help out new blood. Players shouldn't have to do homework for 4-man content AND even if they did read up on it, reading about a fight is not a substitute for *doing*.

So no, I didn't say it was my first time until asked. It's a game, not a job interview.

AlMcFly

max_only wrote: »

And I know, KNOW, that had I opened each dungeon with "never been here before" it would have been immediate kick in some groups.

Who cares, cry me a river about it. If you want to find helpful people, you have to first portray yourself as being helpful or wanting help. If you're new and honest about it, some people will be mean to you and some people will help you. If you are new and dishonest about it (ie: trying to hide your newness), EVERYONE will be mean to you. I would kick you simply for omitting relevant info that may save us a wipe, when I would have gladly explained the dungeon if you were honest with the group.

Don't respond to selfish players by being selfish yourself. Don't cry about mean players when you're doing nothing yourself to stop the cycle.

PlagueSD

max_only wrote: »

Everyone had a first time, no one went to "Play ESO school".

Umm, I did. MMO mechanics are the same for every game. My "Play ESO school" was EverQuest. Group tactics haven't really changed much since. I did have to take a "remediation" class though when I played Rift as they introduced a "Support" role in that game.

Tank - Keeps big baddies mad at him. Blocks with face.
Healer - Keeps everyone alive. Debuffs/Clenses
DPS - kills the big baddies while avoiding fire/poision/cleaves.

Nothing has changed in the last 5 years.


Now Boss mechanics...That's a different story...

KingYogi415

When you can pull at least 15k dps

max_only

PlagueSD wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Everyone had a first time, no one went to "Play ESO school".

Umm, I did. MMO mechanics are the same for every game. My "Play ESO school" was EverQuest. Group tactics haven't really changed much since. I did have to take a "remediation" class though when I played Rift as they introduced a "Support" role in that game.

Tank - Keeps big baddies mad at him. Blocks with face.
Healer - Keeps everyone alive. Debuffs/Clenses
DPS - kills the big baddies while avoiding fire/poision/cleaves.

Nothing has changed in the last 5 years.


Now Boss mechanics...That's a different story...

@PlagueSD Did you read my post? On this page? Above the one line you quoted? You basically repeated exactly what I said..................

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

And I know, KNOW, that had I opened each dungeon with "never been here before" it would have been immediate kick in some groups.

Who cares, cry me a river about it. If you want to find helpful people, you have to first portray yourself as being helpful or wanting help. If you're new and honest about it, some people will be mean to you and some people will help you. If you are new and dishonest about it (ie: trying to hide your newness), EVERYONE will be mean to you. I would kick you simply for omitting relevant info that may save us a wipe, when I would have gladly explained the dungeon if you were honest with the group.

Don't respond to selfish players by being selfish yourself. Don't cry about mean players when you're doing nothing yourself to stop the cycle.

Nah, nope. You don't get to call me selfish. Not going to stand for that nonsense. I never kick someone even after 5 wipes. I patiently explain what they need to know. I gave out free soul gems, food, and repair kits when I came into groups that got stuck and abandoned on Dranos in CoS. I had to rescue 3 groups from CoS before the game queued me for a new group that hadn't already done the first boss just so I can finish my pledge. At anytime I could have said to them "Well your problem is you got a low lvl dps who is apmming light attack and ignoring mechanics so kick them and I'll help you". I never did. I didn't kick the lvl Lvl 19 from ICP, or the healer without resource return or burst healing Darkshade 2, or the lvl 47 robe wearing Argonian sorc who queued as a tank but couldn't even hold their own as a dps in WGT, or the "healer" who only had the first morph of regen in CoA2, and I can go on and on.

I don't need a cookie for being a patient person but I'll be damned if I'm called selfish by someone who doesn't know me.

If you are SO concerned that it might be someone's first time in a dungeon, ask. I will tell you if asked, but otherwise there's no way you'll know from me. I'm not setting myself up for forum whiners who were looking to be carried and babysat with their weak bow builds to kick me back into queue, no sir.

AlMcFly

max_only wrote: »

Nah, nope. You don't get to call me selfish. Not going to stand for that nonsense...lots of charitable stuff blah blah blah...I don't need a cookie for being a patient person but I'll be damned if I'm called selfish by someone who doesn't know me.

I "get" to call anyone, anything I want. Performing 10,000 unselfish acts doesn't erase the negativity of 5 selfish acts.

You said it yourself, you stayed quiet the majority of times you were new to a dungeon. That's information the group could have used, yet you selfishly chose to omit that info for fear of being kicked or looked down upon. All the charitable actions in the world wouldn't lessen the selfishness, and self-interested motive, of those single acts. That would be fallacious.

zaria

AlMcFly wrote: »

As a healer, almost every pug I play in Vet mode, I see at least one player whose max health is between 11k - 14k. If you enter Vet with this low health pool, don't get salty if you die a lot. I'm not going to spam BoL, depleting my entire magicka pool, just to keep you at full health when every single hit you take puts you under 10% health.

P.S. It's generally accepted that 16k health is bare minimum you want for Vet.

Can you have below 14K with dual food? I always look over people. And eat if less than 15 minutes left of old food, its so easy to forget and run out of food on boss.

RANKK7

After a bad experience in my first-time veteran run, I did this when I was unsure if running a dungeon or still wait: took the pledge and entered solo the dungeon, being able to beat the trash and at least the first boss solo, I was confident to enter with group.
Now this is not the best approach, hopefully you get buffs in groups and healing and a tank that bring away the boss attention from you and all the obvious advantage you can get as it should be, since it's 4-men content designed, but surely makes you very confident, if you beat it alone or almost, you certainly won't have a problem in group.

What I also did and this is what I truly suggest you because is actually important: never enter a dungeon before reading about the mechanics (for each boss) in some guide, those 10 minutes (at max) spent in research and reading are well worth!
This will make things incredibly easier for you and your team, you'll get greater enjoyment and greater results, so much time and hassle spared!
At first I always had the page opened on my secondary monitor in case I was forgetting something, until I've learned at heart the places and any mechanics. Those guides are incredibly useful for newcomers.

max_only

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I didnt tell people it's my first time in a dungeon until we were well in.

I hope you spoke up when people asked.

Every dungeon I join, I ask in the beginning if anyone is new to the dungeon. I usually get nothing but silence. 3 out of 4 times, we get to a mechanics driven boss and I notice there is at least one person in the group who does NOT know said mechanics. I then call them out and ask why they didn't tell us earlier when specifically asked if they were new.

P*sses me off every time. People pretending like they know something hoping to slide by undetected.

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Nah, nope. You don't get to call me selfish. Not going to stand for that nonsense...lots of charitable stuff blah blah blah...I don't need a cookie for being a patient person but I'll be damned if I'm called selfish by someone who doesn't know me.

I "get" to call anyone, anything I want. Performing 10,000 unselfish acts doesn't erase the negativity of 5 selfish acts.

You said it yourself, you stayed quiet the majority of times you were new to a dungeon. That's information the group could have used, yet you selfishly chose to omit that info for fear of being kicked or looked down upon. All the charitable actions in the world wouldn't lessen the selfishness, and self-interested motive, of those single acts. That would be fallacious.

Me: If they were really concerned they could say, "who hasn't done this fight?" right before and save themselves the headache.

You: I hope you spoke up when people asked.

Me: I will tell you if asked,


How are you effectively communicating with strangers when you don't read their whole response? We are essentially agreeing and you are dead set on maligning the character of a complete stranger over what exactly?

It's either that or Wow! I'm so glad your parents gave you baby books on ESO dungeons. That kind of privilege is enviable.

Let me ask you something, what are Normal mode dungeons FOR, if not learning the things before wasting people's time on vet?

MLGProPlayer

Level I vet = CP 1
Level II vet = CP 160
DLC vet = CP 300

Tasear

With me

But really, not that bad if you know mechs most things can be done. Get proper gear, food, potions,...soul gems.

AlMcFly

max_only wrote: »

We are essentially agreeing and you are dead set on maligning the character of a complete stranger over what exactly?

I agreed with one of your points, thus I chose not to mention that point because I had nothing to refute. I disagreed with the rest of your points, so I responded to those. Just because our conclusions align, does not mean we are in agreement about the premises.

max_only wrote: »

I'm so glad your parents gave you baby books on ESO dungeons. That kind of privilege is enviable.

I knew there was something in your writing style that I didn't like. This little ad hominem quote solidified that feeling. I simply stated that I considered your viewpoint an act of selfishness. I never sought out to belittle and contemptuously mock you as seems to be your intention.

max_only wrote: »

Let me ask you something, what are Normal mode dungeons FOR, if not learning the things before wasting people's time on vet?

You are exactly correct, and your pug teammates more than likely already know the Normal mode strategies. Thus the quickest way to learn a dungeon is to ask those who are more experienced in the group with you. If 100% of your goal was to learn this dungeon, you would have mentioned you were a first-timer, and asked for explanation. However, you neither announced nor asked, by your own admission. We can only conclude that your goal was not to learn the dungeon in the most efficient way possible. You chose to remain silent until conflict forced you to admit you didn't know the dungeon, thus being an overall drag on a party who assumed you knew, and assumed this would be an efficient no-nonsense run.

99.9% of the people in your group are usually just wanting to complete the dungeon for Undaunted daily quest. You are hindering their desire by pretending you know the dungeon (by virtue of not saying otherwise), and ultimately being a selfish teammate. Normal dungeons are to learn, yes. You obviously cared more about your image in front of a few strangers than you did about learning the dungeon, or you would have spoken up.

max_only

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

We are essentially agreeing and you are dead set on maligning the character of a complete stranger over what exactly?

I agreed with one of your points, thus I chose not to mention that point because I had nothing to refute. I disagreed with the rest of your points, so I responded to those. Just because our conclusions align, does not mean we are in agreement about the premises.

max_only wrote: »

I'm so glad your parents gave you baby books on ESO dungeons. That kind of privilege is enviable.

I knew there was something in your writing style that I didn't like. This little ad hominem quote solidified that feeling. I simply stated that I considered your viewpoint an act of selfishness. I never sought out to belittle and contemptuously mock you as seems to be your intention.

max_only wrote: »

Let me ask you something, what are Normal mode dungeons FOR, if not learning the things before wasting people's time on vet?

You are exactly correct, and your pug teammates more than likely already know the Normal mode strategies. Thus the quickest way to learn a dungeon is to ask those who are more experienced in the group with you. If 100% of your goal was to learn this dungeon, you would have mentioned you were a first-timer, and asked for explanation. However, you neither announced nor asked, by your own admission. We can only conclude that your goal was not to learn the dungeon in the most efficient way possible. You chose to remain silent until conflict forced you to admit you didn't know the dungeon, thus being an overall drag on a party who assumed you knew, and assumed this would be an efficient no-nonsense run.

99.9% of the people in your group are usually just wanting to complete the dungeon for Undaunted daily quest. You are hindering their desire by pretending you know the dungeon (by virtue of not saying otherwise), and ultimately being a selfish teammate. Normal dungeons are to learn, yes. You obviously cared more about your image in front of a few strangers than you did about learning the dungeon, or you would have spoken up.

That's not an ad hominem attack. I never called you names. I made a ridiculous statement to call attention to how absurd it is to expect people to know a game before playing a game. It is absurd to expect people to do homework for their entertainment. Especially if they haven't decided yet if they are going to commit to that hobby. It takes no time to get to cp160 anymore so yeah, many have not decided to commit yet.

I don't choose to remain silent. It says right in all the responses you've evidently skimmed over that if someone ASKs, I will say I am new. If no one ASKs they don't care. If they don't care, it could be because they could pretty much solo the whole thing anyway.

99.9% of time statistics in forum debates are pulled from thin air. I can say that with confidence because I have been in several dungeons where not 1 person of the 4 of us had done it before. I looked up the quick guide and taught the group and we learned together.

"We can only conclude that your goal was not to learn the dungeon in the most efficient way possible". We can only conclude that you haven't read what I wrote, our aren't comprehending what I wrote.

Have you played the same game I'm playing? This is a casual rpg. The only difficulty is coordinating between strangers in fights like Planar Inhibitor and Dranos Velandor. Literally nothing else is mind meltingly difficult. Stay out of red and dodge when the boss turns in your direction is the vast majority of fights.

AlMcFly

max_only wrote: »

That's not an ad hominem attack. I never called you names.

Ad Hominems are not simply relegated to name calling. Implied personal attacks fall into the category of ad hominem. You claim you're instead committing hyperbole, as if that is something less negative? Hilarious.

It's ironic you have more than once balked at my comprehension skills (an ad hominem attack by itself), yet clearly do not understand this simple fallacious act you have now multiple times committed, even though I am politely stating my opinion. Nobody will take your actual opinions seriously when they are saturated with tactics attempting to mock and demean my own arguments.

max_only

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

And I know, KNOW, that had I opened each dungeon with "never been here before" it would have been immediate kick in some groups.

Who cares, cry me a river about it. If you want to find helpful people, you have to first portray yourself as being helpful or wanting help. If you're new and honest about it, some people will be mean to you and some people will help you. If you are new and dishonest about it (ie: trying to hide your newness), EVERYONE will be mean to you. I would kick you simply for omitting relevant info that may save us a wipe, when I would have gladly explained the dungeon if you were honest with the group.

Don't respond to selfish players by being selfish yourself. Don't cry about mean players when you're doing nothing yourself to stop the cycle.

AlMcFly wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

That's not an ad hominem attack. I never called you names.

Ad Hominems are not simply relegated to name calling. Implied personal attacks fall into the category of ad hominem. You claim you're instead committing hyperbole, as if that is something less negative? Hilarious.

It's ironic you have more than once balked at my comprehension skills (an ad hominem attack by itself), yet clearly do not understand this simple fallacious act you have now multiple times committed, even though I am politely stating my opinion. Nobody will take your actual opinions seriously when they are saturated with tactics attempting to mock and demean my own arguments.

Polite? I see Invalidation and baseless accusations.

It seems to me you are spoiling for a fight over something I have repeatedly agreed upon. Cherry picking out of context quotes for what purpose I can't fathom.

I'm not sure I comprehend where you want to take this debate, perhaps in circles?

Let's try again.

If they ask, I would say I'm new.

You want people to respond to the question of being new when you ask.

How is this not the same?

I've boiled down this concept earlier in the thread and yet for some reason, you continue to skip over it.

AbysmalGhul

HorrorShow wrote: »

I have done a few normal dungeons, but they seem to just be run and spam AOE. So not really a learning experience. Was hoping the normal dungeon boss fights would have the same mechanics with reduced damage but they end too fast to pick up on anything meaningful.

I just don't want to hop into a veteran and be causing wipes because I didn't know I had to skip backwards while reciting the Red Diamond song in order to become immune to the Skald Lich's AOE shot.

I am champion level 170 dps.

My best suggestion is to join an active guild and let the more experienced players show you the ropes. Groups like these will most likely be more patient, give tips, and help you farm better gear.

Priyasekarssk

Jamini wrote: »

Vet HM Non-DL - CP160 (You can do it earlier. But this is the minimum CP for geardrops)
Vet HM DLC - CP300 (You can do it earlier. Player ability matters GREATLY for DLC content)

Recommended Minimum Tank HP: 30k+ (Some players recommend meatbag builds. Personally I stick to about 32k with as much support as I can slot as stacking up to 60k health only gives e a 5k team shield. Which is *** and makes my sustain ***. Ult gen or Ebon + Alkosh is sooo much better.)
Recommended Minimum healer HP: 18-19k
Recommended Minimum DPS HP: 16k

Everstorm wrote: »

What's recommended minimum hps for non-tanks for veteran dungeons these days? 25k-ish?

Dear god no. If a DPS is going over 20k health then I'm going to privately question them. If you are up to 25k health I'm going to publicly question you.

I know a dps with 30K health and solo dlc vet dungeon bosses with dps of sustained 30K single target & 60K multi target. He is at max CP and solo more or less all vet dungeons on hard mode. Its pretty much doable, but requires skill.

He also does PVP with 40k health & 35k stamina with stamina recovery above 1500+ & weapon damage 3500+ . He just kills 10 poeple with ease without barely getting scratched.High health doesnt mean anything.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

The beautiful thing about ESO as a DPS is that it's easy to quantify, thanks to target dummies. I would avoid Vet dungeons entirely until you can pull at least 15k DPS on a 3 million health dummy for the whole duration, and that should be a bare minimum. At 20k, almost all vet content is doable if you pay attention to mechanics (most of them arent rocket science), but you will certainly struggle with some dungeons. At 30k, you will start to notice that you skip most mechancis in non DLCs, and at 40k (prob a long way off), most everything becomes essentially a stack and burn in 4-man content.

People well talk about gear, builds, CP level, blah blah blah. I have run with CP 1200 that cant break 10k on a dummy, and people at 200 that are breaking 30k. End of the day, the only thing that matters are results. Get a dummy, pound on it until your fingers bleed, and when you feel comfortable, give vet dungeons a shot.

You are correct that normal dungeons do essentially NOTHING to prepare your for vet dungeons. There is a very large power gap, arguably much too large.

BejaProphet

I'd say to feel free to start them at any time.

But, don't just do randoms, select them specifically in an order similar to how they are unlocked on normal. For example, start off trying Fungal Grotto 1. And move up from there. If you are doing well on normal its not going to be too big of a disaster unless you dive into the harder dungeons first.

sudaki_eso

CP160 and you are ready for your first vet dungeons. As others have already said, wait till 300 before going into the dlc ones - with the changes that are coming with summerset you wont be able to join dlc dungeon using the activity finder under cp300 anyway.

And since normal doesnt prepare you for whats coming in vet i suggest to watch a quick run through of the dungeon and the mechanics involved. There are two guys on youtube who do very good vet dungeon guides, take a look at them: Emphatic Static and Xynode Gaming