How are Demiprinces formed?

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2017

It is commonly held that the Daedra cannot create, they can only change and imitate. How, then, are they able to reproduce and create Demiprinces? I have a few theories, but nothing I can prove:

A Daedric Prince took an existing embryo (or vestige, or other malleable mortal base) and warped it to be like them. Thus, the act of creation was performed by someone else.
The Demiprinces aren't offspring in the traditional sense, but a sort of fragment that broke off and became a separate entity. (See: Umbriel)
The Daedric Princes are sufficiently different from lesser Daedra that they can ignore the restriction.
Daedra CAN create (they were et'Ada like the Aedra at one point, after all!) they just choose not to most of the time since it costs them power.

Thoughts? Theories?

Tyrobag · August 2017

"Demiprinces" are formed when MK makes up stupid words to describe someone in a book by written by a charicter who's credibility is suspect at best. A "Demiprince" has never been a thing outside the 36 Lessons of Vivec before MA, as far as I'm concerned its still just one of the many things Vivec pulled out of his ***. There are many daedra that preside over small realms of oblivion that aren't Daedric Princes, that does not make them a "Demiprince". As such these daedra are often just more powerful of the lesser daedra, or sometimes (as you said) they could theoretically be a being that has stolen power from a real Daedric Prince.

As far as MA, the Daedra presiding over that particular pocket realm could very well be making fun of Vivec for his incompetence by taking on the title. Or, he is piggybacking on Vivec's power and popularity by humoring him.

starkerealm · August 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Daedra CAN create (they were et'Ada like the Aedra at one point, after all!) they just choose not to most of the time since it costs them power.

As I understand it, they can't without attuning themselves to Nirn first. Which costs power, and then creation costs more.

There's an element of all this that sounds like an attempt at conservation of mass/energy, that doesn't quite make sense, based on some of the things we've seen them do.

But, yeah, Vivec is not a reliable narrator. He's also not the master of metaphysics he sees himself as. There's a rather subversive, but not entirely implausible, read of the Sermons as the product of someone trying to sound far more intellectual and profound than he actually is. They're supposed to be this grand philosophical puzzle, but when you actually sit down and work them out, the result is wholly underwhelming. Given the context, I'm more inclined to say that's on Vivec, rather than a flaw in Kirkbride's writing.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · August 2017

Don't forget we do have one other account of a Daedric Prince producing offspring.

(Lyranth had an Answers Your Questions answer that was relevant, but she runs into the same issue as Vivec, namely: she's a Dremora, and therefore untrustworthy by default.)

starkerealm · August 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Don't forget we do have one other account of a Daedric Prince producing offspring.

(Lyranth had an Answers Your Questions answer that was relevant, but she runs into the same issue as Vivec, namely: she's a Dremora, and therefore untrustworthy by default.)

In this case, I kind of think she's slightly more trustworthy overall.

To be fair, I think the explanation for demiprinces might be as simple as, sexual reproduction with a mortal doesn't count as "creating" something for the purposes of a Daedric Prince.

Dustfinger81 · August 2017

Any "Demi-Prince" would either be a powerful daedra that isn't powerful enough to compete with the Daedric Princes so, works for a Deadric Prince or a Fragment of the Daedric Prince. But, Deadra cannot create. Only change what already exists.

Ankael07 · August 2017

In order to govern their realms easily and more efficiently Daedric Princes ''employ'' demi-princes. They probably follow a handful of powerful lesser daedric entities and when they prove themselves useful and loyal enough, Princes could be giving them the power to become a demi-prince as we call.

Enodoc · August 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

It is commonly held that the Daedra cannot create, they can only change and imitate. How, then, are they able to reproduce and create Demiprinces? I have a few theories, but nothing I can prove:
A Daedric Prince took an existing embryo (or vestige, or other malleable mortal base) and warped it to be like them. Thus, the act of creation was performed by someone else.

The Demiprinces aren't offspring in the traditional sense, but a sort of fragment that broke off and became a separate entity. (See: Umbriel)

The Daedric Princes are sufficiently different from lesser Daedra that they can ignore the restriction.

Daedra CAN create (they were et'Ada like the Aedra at one point, after all!) they just choose not to most of the time since it costs them power.

Thoughts? Theories?

I don't think Demiprinces are derived from the Daedric Princes. If you go back to the Dawn, when the et'Ada formed, there are more Aedric et'Ada than just the Divines - Magnus, Phynaster, Syrabane, Xarxes, Y'ffre, to name a few - so it would be reasonable to assume that there are also more Daedric et'Ada than just the Princes, and that's where I think the Demiprinces came from.