Please consider adding AOE component to Dark Shades morph

GrumpyDuckling · July 2017

Currently the Dark Shades morph only adds a second shade in addition to the regular shade, which is a bit underwhelming as far as morphs go (especially since both shades tend to attack the same target). Perhaps, instead of adding a second shade, the morph could allow the shade to do AOE damage. I think players would respond well to a potential change like this.

GreenSoup2HoT · July 2017

Let 1 shade apply minor defile

Malacthulhu · July 2017

Make it like the shades in fungal 2 and if someone doesnt unchain them they die. In a seriousness I wish they would make it more like a pet.

Maryal · July 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Currently the Dark Shades morph only adds a second shade in addition to the regular shade, which is a bit underwhelming as far as morphs go (especially since both shades tend to attack the same target). Perhaps, instead of adding a second shade, the morph could allow the shade to do AOE damage. I think players would respond well to a potential change like this.

Although this morph of shades can do a decent (not great, just 'decent') amount of damage on a magica build, their 'damage' is not the reason to use them on a stam build (their melee attacks can crit, and, on my stamblade, the tooltip base attack is 500 +/- magic damage).

A few ways the twin shades can be used by a Stamblade:
They debuff the enemy's damage (minor maim = you take less damage), they can be a big help when kiting - if you work with them long enough you should be able to figure out how to get them to keep the mob preoccupied ( i.e., take aggro) giving you a 'breather' to regain some resources, buff yourself, or heal yourself. Unlike the other morph, the twin shades are mobile, so if the mob disappears underground or cloaks invisible, the shades will still follow them (meaning the shades give away the mob's location). And, if this weren't enough, the shades can't be killed, you don't have to double bar them, and you can use 'pet commands with them (attack / retreat) or direct them with a heavy attack.

Underwhelming? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them as is.

If you want meaningful pet damage, or AOE pet damage, you may need to roll a sorc.

GrumpyDuckling · July 2017

Maryal wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Currently the Dark Shades morph only adds a second shade in addition to the regular shade, which is a bit underwhelming as far as morphs go (especially since both shades tend to attack the same target). Perhaps, instead of adding a second shade, the morph could allow the shade to do AOE damage. I think players would respond well to a potential change like this.

Although this morph of shades can do a decent (not great, just 'decent') amount of damage on a magica build, their 'damage' is not the reason to use them on a stam build (their melee attacks can crit, and, on my stamblade, the tooltip base attack is 500 +/- magic damage).

A few ways the twin shades can be used by a Stamblade:
They debuff the enemy's damage (minor maim = you take less damage), they can be a big help when kiting - if you work with them long enough you should be able to figure out how to get them to keep the mob preoccupied ( i.e., take aggro) giving you a 'breather' to regain some resources, buff yourself, or heal yourself. Unlike the other morph, the twin shades are mobile, so if the mob disappears underground or cloaks invisible, the shades will still follow them (meaning the shades give away the mob's location). And, if this weren't enough, the shades can't be killed, you don't have to double bar them, and you can use 'pet commands with them (attack / retreat) or direct them with a heavy attack.

Underwhelming? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them as is.

If you want meaningful pet damage, or AOE pet damage, you may need to roll a sorc.

I like that you tried to defend Dark Shades, but everything you said proves how underwhelming this morph is. Let's dissect this point by point:

1) damage is only "decent" is a point in itself, and greatly suffers because both shades attack 1 target, which happens to be the same target
2) your point on kiting becomes a problem because if you're doing a good enough job kiting, then the shades usually spend most of their time chasing around that single enemy instead of attacking them
3) getting them to "take aggro" often requires you to cloak, which is a skill in itself that allows you to get a "breather" and regain resources, buff, or heal yourself
4) how often are you pulling mobs out of range of the Shadow Image morph? Doesn't seem like a strong point to me.
5) shades can't be killed because they have a timer instead that automatically guarantees their removal from play
6) not having to double bar them is a result of the timer and their guaranteed automatic removal from play
7) not sure what your goal is with the point about directing shades with heavy attack - that is the case with all summons/pets

Why would it be a bad idea to give the Dark Shades morph an AOE pulse while attacking? Surely that would be worth testing.

actosh · July 2017

Just give dark shades a aoe minor maim.

Maryal · July 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Currently the Dark Shades morph only adds a second shade in addition to the regular shade, which is a bit underwhelming as far as morphs go (especially since both shades tend to attack the same target). Perhaps, instead of adding a second shade, the morph could allow the shade to do AOE damage. I think players would respond well to a potential change like this.

Although this morph of shades can do a decent (not great, just 'decent') amount of damage on a magica build, their 'damage' is not the reason to use them on a stam build (their melee attacks can crit, and, on my stamblade, the tooltip base attack is 500 +/- magic damage).

A few ways the twin shades can be used by a Stamblade:
They debuff the enemy's damage (minor maim = you take less damage), they can be a big help when kiting - if you work with them long enough you should be able to figure out how to get them to keep the mob preoccupied ( i.e., take aggro) giving you a 'breather' to regain some resources, buff yourself, or heal yourself. Unlike the other morph, the twin shades are mobile, so if the mob disappears underground or cloaks invisible, the shades will still follow them (meaning the shades give away the mob's location). And, if this weren't enough, the shades can't be killed, you don't have to double bar them, and you can use 'pet commands with them (attack / retreat) or direct them with a heavy attack.

Underwhelming? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them as is.

If you want meaningful pet damage, or AOE pet damage, you may need to roll a sorc.

I like that you tried to defend Dark Shades, but everything you said proves how underwhelming this morph is. Let's dissect this point by point:

1) damage is only "decent" is a point in itself, and greatly suffers because both shades attack 1 target, which happens to be the same target
2) your point on kiting becomes a problem because if you're doing a good enough job kiting, then the shades usually spend most of their time chasing around that single enemy instead of attacking them
3) getting them to "take aggro" often requires you to cloak, which is a skill in itself that allows you to get a "breather" and regain resources, buff, or heal yourself
4) how often are you pulling mobs out of range of the Shadow Image morph? Doesn't seem like a strong point to me.
5) shades can't be killed because they have a timer instead that automatically guarantees their removal from play
6) not having to double bar them is a result of the timer and their guaranteed automatic removal from play
7) not sure what your goal is with the point about directing shades with heavy attack - that is the case with all summons/pets

Why would it be a bad idea to give the Dark Shades morph an AOE pulse while attacking? Surely that would be worth testing.

1.) As I said, using them is NOT for the damage they do. Sorcs are the ones with the pets that do meaningful damage (and now Wardens with their bears).
2.) It seems like you are referring to a kiting a single mob. I don't need the shades to kite a single mob (minor maim, however, is very useful on single-mob boss fights). I don't use the shades for vanilla content, nor in public dungeons. I do solo 4-man dungeons ... places where there are lots of trash mobs .... places where bosses / sub-bosses spawn lots of trash mobs. Some dungeons have game mechanics that spawn wave after wave of mobs ... 15-20 per wave with all eyes on you. LOL! The twin shades can attack and keep one or more mobs occupied while I am dealing with others.
3.) I suppose using cloak is one way to get the twin shades to take agro, except when facing mobs that have true sight.
Personally, I don't slot cloak when I have my shades slotted. As far as them taking agro, it's a matter of timing ... knowing what attack to use and when to use it, etc.,
4.) Pulling mobs? I don't 'pull mobs' in the traditional sense. I solo. It's not unusual to find mobs within a room or area spread out in clusters or small groups, with each group having its own agro area. I am careful to confine the area I am fighting in so as to not trigger too many of these clusters at a given time. That being said, there are some places where fighting 1 mob triggers all of them and you just have to deal with it.
5.) Yes, they are on a timer, however, you can recast them before they despawn, thus keeping them up for however long your resources allow.
6.) Of course they are on a timer ... with each hit, they cause minor maim! Can you imagine the outcry from the community if it were otherwise?
7.) The directing a pet via a heavy attack was introduced with Morrowind. Not everyone realizes that the shades are considered 'pets,' much less that these 'pets' can be directed. As a side note - some pets can't be directed with a heavy attack ... such as every pet the Warden has except the bear. LOL!

GrumpyDuckling · July 2017

Maryal wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Currently the Dark Shades morph only adds a second shade in addition to the regular shade, which is a bit underwhelming as far as morphs go (especially since both shades tend to attack the same target). Perhaps, instead of adding a second shade, the morph could allow the shade to do AOE damage. I think players would respond well to a potential change like this.

Although this morph of shades can do a decent (not great, just 'decent') amount of damage on a magica build, their 'damage' is not the reason to use them on a stam build (their melee attacks can crit, and, on my stamblade, the tooltip base attack is 500 +/- magic damage).

A few ways the twin shades can be used by a Stamblade:
They debuff the enemy's damage (minor maim = you take less damage), they can be a big help when kiting - if you work with them long enough you should be able to figure out how to get them to keep the mob preoccupied ( i.e., take aggro) giving you a 'breather' to regain some resources, buff yourself, or heal yourself. Unlike the other morph, the twin shades are mobile, so if the mob disappears underground or cloaks invisible, the shades will still follow them (meaning the shades give away the mob's location). And, if this weren't enough, the shades can't be killed, you don't have to double bar them, and you can use 'pet commands with them (attack / retreat) or direct them with a heavy attack.

Underwhelming? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them as is.

If you want meaningful pet damage, or AOE pet damage, you may need to roll a sorc.

I like that you tried to defend Dark Shades, but everything you said proves how underwhelming this morph is. Let's dissect this point by point:

1) damage is only "decent" is a point in itself, and greatly suffers because both shades attack 1 target, which happens to be the same target
2) your point on kiting becomes a problem because if you're doing a good enough job kiting, then the shades usually spend most of their time chasing around that single enemy instead of attacking them
3) getting them to "take aggro" often requires you to cloak, which is a skill in itself that allows you to get a "breather" and regain resources, buff, or heal yourself
4) how often are you pulling mobs out of range of the Shadow Image morph? Doesn't seem like a strong point to me.
5) shades can't be killed because they have a timer instead that automatically guarantees their removal from play
6) not having to double bar them is a result of the timer and their guaranteed automatic removal from play
7) not sure what your goal is with the point about directing shades with heavy attack - that is the case with all summons/pets

Why would it be a bad idea to give the Dark Shades morph an AOE pulse while attacking? Surely that would be worth testing.

1.) As I said, using them is NOT for the damage they do. Sorcs are the ones with the pets that do meaningful damage (and now Wardens with their bears).
2.) It seems like you are referring to a kiting a single mob. I don't need the shades to kite a single mob (minor maim, however, is very useful on single-mob boss fights). I don't use the shades for vanilla content, nor in public dungeons. I do solo 4-man dungeons ... places where there are lots of trash mobs .... places where bosses / sub-bosses spawn lots of trash mobs. Some dungeons have game mechanics that spawn wave after wave of mobs ... 15-20 per wave with all eyes on you. LOL! The twin shades can attack and keep one or more mobs occupied while I am dealing with others.
3.) I suppose using cloak is one way to get the twin shades to take agro, except when facing mobs that have true sight.
Personally, I don't slot cloak when I have my shades slotted. As far as them taking agro, it's a matter of timing ... knowing what attack to use and when to use it, etc.,
4.) Pulling mobs? I don't 'pull mobs' in the traditional sense. I solo. It's not unusual to find mobs within a room or area spread out in clusters or small groups, with each group having its own agro area. I am careful to confine the area I am fighting in so as to not trigger too many of these clusters at a given time. That being said, there are some places where fighting 1 mob triggers all of them and you just have to deal with it.
5.) Yes, they are on a timer, however, you can recast them before they despawn, thus keeping them up for however long your resources allow.
6.) Of course they are on a timer ... with each hit, they cause minor maim! Can you imagine the outcry from the community if it were otherwise?
7.) The directing a pet via a heavy attack was introduced with Morrowind. Not everyone realizes that the shades are considered 'pets,' much less that these 'pets' can be directed. As a side note - some pets can't be directed with a heavy attack ... such as every pet the Warden has except the bear. LOL!

1) So... why not NIghtblades? Why does it have to exclusively be Sorcs and Wardens?

2) You're referring to one specific playstyle (soloing 4 man dungeons).

3) Okay, however aggro occurs that's fine. Why would AOE damage affect that?

4) Again, you're referring to one specific playstyle (soloing 4 man dungeons).

5) Each recast takes time and resources from your magicka pool.

6) I didn't argue that they shouldn't be on a timer. Not sure what your point is.

7) Not sure how directing pets fits into your argument against AOE damage.

How do any of your points strongly counter adding AOE damage?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · July 2017

I have played a main Nightblade with 4 other Nightblades since launch. I can tell you that Shades need a buff. Not a big one cause they can't be attacked or CC but something more. For now they serve as a semi-unpurgable debuff (you can purge it but they will reapply).

The damage is weak period, the debuff is great but they are really only good for fighting blockers as the drain stamina.

Maryal · August 2017

Initially, I made a short response to your (GrumpyDuckling) proposed suggestion. You tried to pick apart my response, I believe you used the term "dissect." Your 'dissection' produced 7 separate points, and I responded to each of them. You didn't like what I had to say and came back with 7 more counter points. You know, this is quite a little dance we are doing here, one that could go on for some time and I wouldn't doubt that a few readers might even find it amusing, but I would not be one of them. The long and short of it is I've said what I said and I stand firm on that. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but, perhaps it is just one of those situations where we should "agree to disagree."

That being said, I do have some additional comments/suggestions that were not previously discussed:

When operating 'in the shadows,' a person is usually focused on a single target (or, to a lesser extent, a small group of 2-3), preferably drawing as little attention as possible from others in the area. Unfortunately, having a pair of AOE spamming shades would be very counter intuitive to that type of play style.

I know, I know ... someone is bound to say "What about Path of Darkness, that's AOE!" Well, since it was brought up, let's look at that for a moment. For the rare (LOL) occasion we might need a quick escape ... or for those 'just in case' moments ... Path of Darkness is our friend. Casting it gives us minor expedition (very helpful in our endeavor to escape) while simultaneously leaving behind a little AOE surprise for those 'hot on our trail' ... LOL! And, yes, the AOE component of this particular skill actually goes with the play style. (Translation: because we already have an AOE skill in the Shadow skill tree, we really don't "need" another).

But, hypothetically, let's suppose that we actually needed 2 AOE skills under the Shadow skill tree. The justification for changing the Dark Shades morph was based on its underwhelming damage . If, hypothetically, we change the morph that does the least amount of damage per cast, then we would have to change the Shadowy Image morph. Shadowy Image already wields a bow, so the bow could easily rain down multiple arrows, or perform a scatter shot for the AOE damage.

Dark Shades - in 1 cast they hit the target 20 times
Shadowy Image - in 1 cast it hits the target 10 times
Despite the tool tip damage for shadowy image being a bit higher, when taking into account the damage done per cast, the damage done by the Shadowy Image falls far behind that of the Dark Shades.

IMO, changing either morph to wield an AOE attack runs counter to the play style, and runs even more counter to the skill tree. However, if the proposal was to change the Shadowy Image morph from a single target bow attack to an AOE bow attack, I wouldn't go out of my way to object to it.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2017

Maryal wrote: »

When operating 'in the shadows,' a person is usually focused on a single target (or, to a lesser extent, a small group of 2-3), preferably drawing as little attention as possible from others in the area. Unfortunately, having a pair of AOE spamming shades would be very counter intuitive to that type of play style.

How and why would AOE damage be counter intuitive when attacking 1 to 3 total targets? You are aware that AOE attacks can be used against single targets, right?

Jim_Pipp · August 2017

Hmm. Interesting discussion. Here are my two cents.

Night blade shades are one of the coolest abilities in the game but it clearly is (and has been for a long time) underperforming. There are almost no set-ups were it is the best possible ability to use unless you wear necropotence and then the shade is mainly for the 5pc bonus.

So would an aoe attack be OK? I hope it wouldn't replace the second shade because that looks cool. But if the aoe required a second activation (similar to how shadow image or sorc summons work) then it would be OK.

I'm not sure adding damage will help shades. They are not a damage ability. I would prefer that they had more utility added on. For example making one shade apply minor lifesteal and the other apply minor magicka steal would be amazing for a huge range of builds, but would be a bit overpowered.

Maryal · August 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

When operating 'in the shadows,' a person is usually focused on a single target (or, to a lesser extent, a small group of 2-3), preferably drawing as little attention as possible from others in the area. Unfortunately, having a pair of AOE spamming shades would be very counter intuitive to that type of play style.

How and why would AOE damage be counter intuitive when attacking 1 to 3 total targets? You are aware that AOE attacks can be used against single targets, right?

As I said before, when you are in a room or area (of a 4 man dungeon, for example), often times there are small mob clusters dotted around the area/room. Each cluster has its own area of agro ... having a shade spam an AOE would likely trigger or agro a cluster (or clusters) I didn't want or wasn't ready for. The twin shades are mobile, and I can direct their single target damage where I want, when I want. The precision is useful. An AOE attack, or Area Of Effect attack, would not give me the precision I need or am looking for.

You know, Mr.(Ms.?), GrumpyDuckling, from everything you've said, I can tell you really really want another AOE in the Shadow skill tree, which is why I offered a perfectly viable alternative ... select the Shade's OTHER morph --> Shadowy Image. As I said before, that morph is stationary, currently wields significantly less single target damage per cast than the Dark Shades, and, IMO, has far less utility than the Dark Shades.

If the Shadowy Image went from a single target bow attack to an AOE bow attack, it could rain down arrows from the sky, OR spam an arrow barrage. In fact, why not both ... have the AOE attack randomly alternate between the an endless hail type of attack and an arrow barrage .... one AOE can drain health (as previous suggestion by another commenter) and the other AOE can include a poison effect, or whatever effect you think would be appropriate. Heck, you could even have the Shadowy Image emit a poisonous gas from its location, (kinda like a silent, but deadly fart) ... (why do I think of my brother when I say that ... LOL). (... while I'm on the subject, my brother went so far as to light a match and hold it up to his derriere while emitting HIS poisonous gas ... wanted to see if the 'gas' would ignite .... it didn't).

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2017

I would call myself a true Nightblade. I have played every single role in this game as a Nightblade (Still have 5/12 characters are Nightblades kinda love the class). Changes to Siphoning Attacks has killed my Tank.

But no matter the role, set and play style. Shades have never stood out. They are not for damage but can deal damage. They don't proc damage sets at least the ones I have tested. They debuff but it's wasted when two shades hit one guy with a debuff that can't stack.

Shadow Image is great to keep them running in circles.

Dark Shades is the premorph with more damage the second image is only useful in PvP as a stamina drain.

Another debuff added to Dark Shades for the second Shade and increase the fire rate of Shadow Image to make actually a damage increase.

RavenSworn · August 2017

Imo Dark Shades should be on shorter duration but have the secondary ability, much like it's other counterpart shadow image, which will make each shade, where ever they are, to do a spin attack that will deal minor maim to any enemy they hit. The shades will disappear after 6s, down from 15s, to deal with the tremendous utility an aoe minor maim does.

This way you have two distinct effects, for two different game plays. You have a one time aoe minor maim, which deals lesser damage than the single target, higher damage escape mechanic shade.

As it stands there is absolutely no reason you want to run dark shades over shadow image, if you run it at all.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2017

RavenSworn wrote: »

Imo Dark Shades should be on shorter duration but have the secondary ability, much like it's other counterpart shadow image, which will make each shade, where ever they are, to do a spin attack that will deal minor maim to any enemy they hit. The shades will disappear after 6s, down from 15s, to deal with the tremendous utility an aoe minor maim does.

This way you have two distinct effects, for two different game plays. You have a one time aoe minor maim, which deals lesser damage than the single target, higher damage escape mechanic shade.

As it stands there is absolutely no reason you want to run dark shades over shadow image, if you run it at all.

As mentioned if you PvP the twin shades are great for a stamina drain even more with the cooldown on block cost lowered.

But yes they are unless outside of this.

BohnT · August 2017

The dark shade morph is very very underwhelming, shadow image gets, range more damage and one of the best kiting moves in the game.
Dark shade needs either significantly more damage or much better utility,

Maryal · August 2017

ESO is a game that lets you play the way you want, more or less. To accomplish this, there are going to be some skills that won't have much value to some play styles, while at the same time having a lot of value to other play styles. Value isn't always measured by numbers, but by the utility of the skill (such as juking out other players with Shadowy Image in pvp). Well, Dark Shades provides a great deal of utility soloing more difficult content (pve). Is it an 'easy button' skill? No. It takes a fair amount of practice, including positioning and timing, but that skill has become invaluable to me and is a 'must have' skill I always have slotted when I solo certain types of content ( I spent some time detailing its usefulness in a few places earlier in this thread).

End game players tend to view the value of a skill based on 'end game' content, pvp'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pvp content; pve'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pve content; solo'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on soloing content; groupers tend to view the value of a skill based on the value of the skill to the group. All skills won't be equally valuable to all play styles.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2017

Maryal wrote: »

ESO is a game that lets you play the way you want, more or less. To accomplish this, there are going to be some skills that won't have much value to some play styles, while at the same time having a lot of value to other play styles. Value isn't always measured by numbers, but by the utility of the skill (such as juking out other players with Shadowy Image in pvp). Well, Dark Shades provides a great deal of utility soloing more difficult content (pve). Is it an 'easy button' skill? No. It takes a fair amount of practice, including positioning and timing, but that skill has become invaluable to me and is a 'must have' skill I always have slotted when I solo certain types of content ( I spent some time detailing its usefulness in a few places earlier in this thread).

End game players tend to view the value of a skill based on 'end game' content, pvp'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pvp content; pve'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pve content; solo'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on soloing content; groupers tend to view the value of a skill based on the value of the skill to the group. All skills won't be equally valuable to all play styles.

So you could just not morph it and have essentially the same skill, minus one of the shades (you said their damage isn't valuable so it's not like you need two of them). Then the morph could do AOE.

Everyone wins.

Maryal · August 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

ESO is a game that lets you play the way you want, more or less. To accomplish this, there are going to be some skills that won't have much value to some play styles, while at the same time having a lot of value to other play styles. Value isn't always measured by numbers, but by the utility of the skill (such as juking out other players with Shadowy Image in pvp). Well, Dark Shades provides a great deal of utility soloing more difficult content (pve). Is it an 'easy button' skill? No. It takes a fair amount of practice, including positioning and timing, but that skill has become invaluable to me and is a 'must have' skill I always have slotted when I solo certain types of content ( I spent some time detailing its usefulness in a few places earlier in this thread).

End game players tend to view the value of a skill based on 'end game' content, pvp'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pvp content; pve'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pve content; solo'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on soloing content; groupers tend to view the value of a skill based on the value of the skill to the group. All skills won't be equally valuable to all play styles.

So you could just not morph it and have essentially the same skill, minus one of the shades (you said their damage isn't valuable so it's not like you need two of them). Then the morph could do AOE.

Everyone wins.

It's been a long time since I used the unmorphed version ...on my toon, the Dark Shades morph deals roughly 5K damage per cast (in addition to everything else) .... that's enough damage to get / maintain agro. However, if I went with the un-morphed version (which is only 1 shade), it may not generate enough damage to get / hold agro like the morphed version (Dark Shades) can.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2017

Maryal wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

ESO is a game that lets you play the way you want, more or less. To accomplish this, there are going to be some skills that won't have much value to some play styles, while at the same time having a lot of value to other play styles. Value isn't always measured by numbers, but by the utility of the skill (such as juking out other players with Shadowy Image in pvp). Well, Dark Shades provides a great deal of utility soloing more difficult content (pve). Is it an 'easy button' skill? No. It takes a fair amount of practice, including positioning and timing, but that skill has become invaluable to me and is a 'must have' skill I always have slotted when I solo certain types of content ( I spent some time detailing its usefulness in a few places earlier in this thread).

End game players tend to view the value of a skill based on 'end game' content, pvp'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pvp content; pve'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pve content; solo'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on soloing content; groupers tend to view the value of a skill based on the value of the skill to the group. All skills won't be equally valuable to all play styles.

So you could just not morph it and have essentially the same skill, minus one of the shades (you said their damage isn't valuable so it's not like you need two of them). Then the morph could do AOE.

Everyone wins.

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

ESO is a game that lets you play the way you want, more or less. To accomplish this, there are going to be some skills that won't have much value to some play styles, while at the same time having a lot of value to other play styles. Value isn't always measured by numbers, but by the utility of the skill (such as juking out other players with Shadowy Image in pvp). Well, Dark Shades provides a great deal of utility soloing more difficult content (pve). Is it an 'easy button' skill? No. It takes a fair amount of practice, including positioning and timing, but that skill has become invaluable to me and is a 'must have' skill I always have slotted when I solo certain types of content ( I spent some time detailing its usefulness in a few places earlier in this thread).

End game players tend to view the value of a skill based on 'end game' content, pvp'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pvp content; pve'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on pve content; solo'ers tend to view the value of a skill based on soloing content; groupers tend to view the value of a skill based on the value of the skill to the group. All skills won't be equally valuable to all play styles.

So you could just not morph it and have essentially the same skill, minus one of the shades (you said their damage isn't valuable so it's not like you need two of them). Then the morph could do AOE.

Everyone wins.

It's been a long time since I used the unmorphed version ...on my toon, the Dark Shades morph deals roughly 5K damage per cast (in addition to everything else). That is enough damage to get / maintain agro ... not sure, but if the damage were cut in half, 1 shade may not be able to get / hold agro like the Dark Shades can.

Not 100% on the shades and agro but they attack as two different things so if two can attack only one has agro they can but rarely do attack different things.