humpalicous wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
So I just crafted a set of Torugs for my sorc for nothing?
GG ZOS, why can't you do things right from the beginning, so that this kind of build never hits the PTS?
Well, good thing I didn't equip it, so i can sell it and just use my regular setup with the god damn VMA staff... This game is a joke at times.
ahaha, self-exposed
I had similar thoughts...It looks like some people just dont get what this thread is about.
LOTS of people get what it's about, it's about shield stackers and permablock tanks trying to keep any counters to their playstyle out of the game.
As has been posted, test is bugged. When the bug is fixed, it will be fine.
But I will wager you a shiny internet dollar that shield stackers with astronomical tooltips on their alpha skills because they have no health and no heals will STILL cry and cry and cry. It's the nature of MMO forums. 75% of the players don't give feedback, they rationalize and outright LIE to advocate their particular brand of cheese. Shields need more counters. The company apparently knows this full well and this is how they are addressing it.
People who post nerf vids and nerf holler over a freaking BUG on a test server are laughable and transparent to boot. 1. Report bug. 2. Move on. 3. If bug is not fixed, then report again. Not rocket science, nor is applying the decoder ring to the real intent behind all these threads on this same topic.
Oh and there's also a new tinge of "I don't want average players doing my uber macroed pve dps without programming the same keys I did," which is also transparent. Give it a rest. Not fooling anyone with a brain.
humpalicous wrote: »
So I just crafted a set of Torugs for my sorc for nothing?
GG ZOS, why can't you do things right from the beginning, so that this kind of build never hits the PTS?
Well, good thing I didn't equip it, so i can sell it and just use my regular setup with the god damn VMA staff... This game is a joke at times.
I had similar thoughts...It looks like some people just dont get what this thread is about.
LOTS of people get what it's about, it's about shield stackers and permablock tanks trying to keep any counters to their playstyle out of the game.
As has been posted, test is bugged. When the bug is fixed, it will be fine.
But I will wager you a shiny internet dollar that shield stackers with astronomical tooltips on their alpha skills because they have no health and no heals will STILL cry and cry and cry. It's the nature of MMO forums. 75% of the players don't give feedback, they rationalize and outright LIE to advocate their particular brand of cheese. Shields need more counters. The company apparently knows this full well and this is how they are addressing it.
People who post nerf vids and nerf holler over a freaking BUG on a test server are laughable and transparent to boot. 1. Report bug. 2. Move on. 3. If bug is not fixed, then report again. Not rocket science, nor is applying the decoder ring to the real intent behind all these threads on this same topic.
Oh and there's also a new tinge of "I don't want average players doing my uber macroed pve dps without programming the same keys I did," which is also transparent. Give it a rest. Not fooling anyone with a brain.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »I just hope the fix doesn't only consist of bringing the CD to 1.4 secs...
For pve: 0.8s CD gave roughly 16k dps in Alcast his test, so 1.4s CD should give about 9k dps. Personally I think thats quite a big dmg boost for a 5pc bonus, weapon trait and weapon enchant. I does reduce AOE dps a lot so at least there are some downsides to running this setup.
For pvp its a different story because you cannot mitigate oblivion dmg. Out-healing it will cost a lot of resources while proccing enchants gives resources to the attacker. Magplars and NBs might stand a chance but the rest of the classes will probably have a tough time surviving this.
I think the builds that are going to have it the roughest are Heavy armor builds, and magsorcs.
And all I've got to say about that is:
GOOD
You say that now, but how do you plan to dodge oblivion damage if it comes from undodgeable shock/resto Tho possibly normal enchants will be enough, like disease one that will deal nearly similar damage and will keep you constantly under Major Defile.
I play with medium armor, and you think I'm afraid of undodgeable damage?
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »I just hope the fix doesn't only consist of bringing the CD to 1.4 secs...
For pve: 0.8s CD gave roughly 16k dps in Alcast his test, so 1.4s CD should give about 9k dps. Personally I think thats quite a big dmg boost for a 5pc bonus, weapon trait and weapon enchant. I does reduce AOE dps a lot so at least there are some downsides to running this setup.
For pvp its a different story because you cannot mitigate oblivion dmg. Out-healing it will cost a lot of resources while proccing enchants gives resources to the attacker. Magplars and NBs might stand a chance but the rest of the classes will probably have a tough time surviving this.
I think the builds that are going to have it the roughest are Heavy armor builds, and magsorcs.
And all I've got to say about that is:
GOOD
You say that now, but how do you plan to dodge oblivion damage if it comes from undodgeable shock/resto Tho possibly normal enchants will be enough, like disease one that will deal nearly similar damage and will keep you constantly under Major Defile.
I play with medium armor, and you think I'm afraid of undodgeable damage?
Wait till you try to attack someone with that standing in wall of elements.
Every tick proccs it. Gl trying to melee.
Strider_Roshin wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »I just hope the fix doesn't only consist of bringing the CD to 1.4 secs...
For pve: 0.8s CD gave roughly 16k dps in Alcast his test, so 1.4s CD should give about 9k dps. Personally I think thats quite a big dmg boost for a 5pc bonus, weapon trait and weapon enchant. I does reduce AOE dps a lot so at least there are some downsides to running this setup.
For pvp its a different story because you cannot mitigate oblivion dmg. Out-healing it will cost a lot of resources while proccing enchants gives resources to the attacker. Magplars and NBs might stand a chance but the rest of the classes will probably have a tough time surviving this.
I think the builds that are going to have it the roughest are Heavy armor builds, and magsorcs.
And all I've got to say about that is:
I had similar thoughts...It looks like some people just dont get what this thread is about.
LOTS of people get what it's about, it's about shield stackers and permablock tanks trying to keep any counters to their playstyle out of the game.
As has been posted, test is bugged. When the bug is fixed, it will be fine.
But I will wager you a shiny internet dollar that shield stackers with astronomical tooltips on their alpha skills because they have no health and no heals will STILL cry and cry and cry. It's the nature of MMO forums. 75% of the players don't give feedback, they rationalize and outright LIE to advocate their particular brand of cheese. Shields need more counters. The company apparently knows this full well and this is how they are addressing it.
People who post nerf vids and nerf holler over a freaking BUG on a test server are laughable and transparent to boot. 1. Report bug. 2. Move on. 3. If bug is not fixed, then report again. Not rocket science, nor is applying the decoder ring to the real intent behind all these threads on this same topic.
Oh and there's also a new tinge of "I don't want average players doing my uber macroed pve dps without programming the same keys I did," which is also transparent. Give it a rest. Not fooling anyone with a brain.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Juhasow I just want to mention. Disease status is minor defile. Out of date addons will say major once you have befoul cp allocated.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Juhasow I just want to mention. Disease status is minor defile. Out of date addons will say major once you have befoul cp allocated.
So if I have no befoul CP allocated and ZoS own combat buff/debuff that was implemented last patch says it is Major Defile and I cannot apply my own major defile (without rewriting it) and addons tracking debuffs (which they track by ID and not names) say the major defile debuff was lost when I rewrite it with new source of Major Defile (which would not happen if they both have different ID)
what should I believe?
Because it either applies Major Defile or it rewrites Major Defile with itself. Making it impossible to stack normal major defile and disease. In any case it should not be happening unless intended.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Juhasow I just want to mention. Disease status is minor defile. Out of date addons will say major once you have befoul cp allocated.
So if I have no befoul CP allocated and ZoS own combat buff/debuff that was implemented last patch says it is Major Defile and I cannot apply my own major defile (without rewriting it) and addons tracking debuffs (which they track by ID and not names) say the major defile debuff was lost when I rewrite it with new source of Major Defile (which would not happen if they both have different ID)
what should I believe?
Because it either applies Major Defile or it rewrites Major Defile with itself. Making it impossible to stack normal major defile and disease. In any case it should not be happening unless intended.
Must be a bug for pts. I could grab pics right now from console stating minor defile.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Juhasow I just want to mention. Disease status is minor defile. Out of date addons will say major once you have befoul cp allocated.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Juhasow I just want to mention. Disease status is minor defile. Out of date addons will say major once you have befoul cp allocated.
So if I have no befoul CP allocated and ZoS own combat buff/debuff that was implemented last patch says it is Major Defile and I cannot apply my own major defile (without rewriting it) and addons tracking debuffs (which they track by ID and not names) say the major defile debuff was lost when I rewrite it with new source of Major Defile (which would not happen if they both have different ID)
what should I believe?
Because it either applies Major Defile or it rewrites Major Defile with itself. Making it impossible to stack normal major defile and disease. In any case it should not be happening unless intended.
Must be a bug for pts. I could grab pics right now from console stating minor defile.
Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
The logic is quite obvious. Nearly all proc sets were for stamina while we know the devs only play magSorcs. The fact they removed stamina proc sets and introduced a proc set that magicka sorcs can use makes perfect sense.
frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
The logic is quite obvious. Nearly all proc sets were for stamina while we know the devs only play magSorcs. The fact they removed stamina proc sets and introduced a proc set that magicka sorcs can use makes perfect sense.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
The logic is quite obvious. Nearly all proc sets were for stamina while we know the devs only play magSorcs. The fact they removed stamina proc sets and introduced a proc set that magicka sorcs can use makes perfect sense.
And how are mSorc going to shield stack through oblivion dmg every 1.4 seconds? Sorcs will probably suffer the most from Torugs infused oblivion combo because it completely bypasses their shields and they dont have strong heals.
I wonder if blazplar builds will be a thing again..
Massive health pool (takes longer to die from oblivion)
Health based dmg shields... (to protect from non-oblivion)
Does next to no damage (apart from infused oblivion and the odd burst)
Will simply outlast opponent due to healthpool
Septimus_Magna wrote: »frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
The logic is quite obvious. Nearly all proc sets were for stamina while we know the devs only play magSorcs. The fact they removed stamina proc sets and introduced a proc set that magicka sorcs can use makes perfect sense.
And how are mSorc going to shield stack through oblivion dmg every 1.4 seconds? Sorcs will probably suffer the most from Torugs infused oblivion combo because it completely bypasses their shields and they dont have strong heals.
Nah.
The classes that are going to suffer the most are those that rely on block or dodge.
Shields acutally cope best with oblivion dmg because they spread incoming dmg between two pools (shield and hp). That means having shields requires minimal healing compared to a build only working with HP. Shield builds also don´t rely on dmg reduction but have the ability to shield the dmg unmitigated (meaning the dps increase against them is actually not that drastic).
Stamblades are probably going to suffer the most. Their healing is abysmal and they work with dmg avoidance rather than taking and healing. Problem is there is no way to avoid this dmg when it´s used with wall of elements or channeled attacks (they´ll eat 6k dmg passively just from jumping someone who´s aware of them).
Block builds also get hit hard(er than shield builds). They´re usually setup to outheal blocked damage easily. They can´t block this dmg resulting in massive (and i´m talking more than doubled) incoming dps they have to outheal.
It´s worst for medium armor. Then heavyarmor block builds. Then heavyarmor heal (magplar and magblade). Shield builds will adapt the easiest (with magblade being an absolute charm as their whole toolkit counters this kind of spread dmg).
Ranged is always going to have an edge over melee.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »frostbreeze wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »I went to the future and took this screenshot for you guys.
I sure do look forward to more of this in two weeks. If you can't understand why everyone having essentially free access to the 5 piece shieldbreaker set as part of their normal build is a problem... then I really don't think there is anything for us to discuss.
Shields are strong, but they are an extremely proactive defense, and failing to upkeep it results in death quite often. Now everyone can basically just bypass ALL of your defenses that aren't just raw heals.
this is nothing man.With torugs,even IF fixed, ull get hit by 3k oblivion damage per weave. Thats ludacris.Its like proccing viper on you every 1.4 secs that u cant shield.Good job u nerfed proc sets and gave us something 2xtimes strongers :P The logic is beyond me :P
The logic is quite obvious. Nearly all proc sets were for stamina while we know the devs only play magSorcs. The fact they removed stamina proc sets and introduced a proc set that magicka sorcs can use makes perfect sense.
And how are mSorc going to shield stack through oblivion dmg every 1.4 seconds? Sorcs will probably suffer the most from Torugs infused oblivion combo because it completely bypasses their shields and they dont have strong heals.
Nah.
The classes that are going to suffer the most are those that rely on block or dodge.
Shields acutally cope best with oblivion dmg because they spread incoming dmg between two pools (shield and hp). That means having shields requires minimal healing compared to a build only working with HP. Shield builds also don´t rely on dmg reduction but have the ability to shield the dmg unmitigated (meaning the dps increase against them is actually not that drastic).
Stamblades are probably going to suffer the most. Their healing is abysmal and they work with dmg avoidance rather than taking and healing. Problem is there is no way to avoid this dmg when it´s used with wall of elements or channeled attacks (they´ll eat 6k dmg passively just from jumping someone who´s aware of them).
Block builds also get hit hard(er than shield builds). They´re usually setup to outheal blocked damage easily. They can´t block this dmg resulting in massive (and i´m talking more than doubled) incoming dps they have to outheal.
It´s worst for medium armor. Then heavyarmor block builds. Then heavyarmor heal (magplar and magblade). Shield builds will adapt the easiest (with magblade being an absolute charm as their whole toolkit counters this kind of spread dmg).
Ranged is always going to have an edge over melee.