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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Give medium armour penetration like light armour does...
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would, but I don't feel like writing a dissertation in order to inform you of what's considered to be common knowledge among experienced players.4 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean - we can discuss the LA/MA issues until our heads turn blue and probably not reach a consensus. I want the Armour lines reworked altogether. The discussion just shows how messed up the balance is. To me, every armour should come with a clear choice.
Light - superior damage but weaker on defenses. If light armour would get reworked and the necessary buffs in place, one could then address perceived issues like Magicka based shields.
Medium - distinctly less damage than LA but much greater survivability.
Heavy - almost no damage but greatest survivability.
It has been too long since there wasn't a clear cut no brainer for Armour choice. The era of Heavy really did a huge amount of damage here. Armour choice should always have its advantages and downsides.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Ever heard of a rolldodge? It offers almost 100% protection against most attacks, only very few attacks can go through it. That IS your shield, your main source of defense if you're not a tank, and you can block more too, btw.. If you don't know how to use it, it's nobody's fault.
Ask for advice to those bunnyblades that can rolldodge from Alessia to BRK and back, avoiding nearly all damage thrown at them, damage that no shield in this game could protect from. That is the defense you are looking for, and if you combine it with Shuffle, it's even more potent - again, a stamina ability.
Hahahaha!
You must be new
Please list all attacks that go through rolldodge. And count how many they are in comparison to the total amount of skills and factor in the fact that not everybody uses them.
Every single Ground Targeted AoE in the game. Soul Assault, Templars Jesus beam, DoTs, Cliff Racer. It also has increasing cost, whereas shields don't.2 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭So I use all three armor sets on my Hybrid NB, in a 5/1/1 configuration, depending on what set I am pairing with Pelinal's and the role/game type I am playing in. Let's breakdown the armors so you get the idea of how its supposed to work
LA - Damage increase is penetration, cost reduction and critical, mitigation is shield
MA - Damage increase is weapon damage increase and weapon critical, mitigation is dodge and active avoidance (dodge roll and sneak)
HA - Damage increase is reactive weapon/spell damage increase (you have to get hit) and easier sustain through heavies, mitigation is damage reduction through armor rating, healing recieved/regen and ease of blocking which pairs with sustain to help you outlast the LA/MA sets
Because of Pelinal's, I spend a majority of my time in MA. IMHO, MA is a armor built around active damage avoidance. If you wanted to buff MA without making it OP you could give a larger dodge roll immunity, say .1-.15s per MA piece worn. This gives more damage avoidance, helps solve the stamina issue most MA wearers have, while not buffing the hunding's rage bombers effectiveness.
Aside from this, you are pushing MA over the top and significantly out of balance with LA. You also have to realize that while there is spinner's to increase spell penetration all the time that there are at least 6-10 sets I can think of right now that give physical penetration on condition and spinner's direct counter-part. Giving physical penetration as part of the armor passives is a HUGE imbalance without nerfing those sets into the ground.
On the other side, there are almost no other sets on the LA side that grant a comparable increase to spell damage the way that MA 5pc does, especially exclusively like the MA penetration on condition sets exist. If anything, you need LA to have more 2-4pc stats to increase spell damage than there currently is. I say that mildly as the sustainability (in magicka pool, cost reduction, and regen) and versatility of magicka is off the charts better than stamina sans on a DK, but they have their own issues.Edited by PS4_ZeColmeia on August 1, 2017 4:10PMPSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just thought I'd mention... If you're talking about swapping the % wpndmg increase for penetration.. it'll only make it worse at tearing through shields..Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭There is no rule that say you have to reach 18k penetration to do good dps.
Tho I would not mind if agility went from % to some raw weapon damage
I would say 12k you should reach for solo playing and 18k you need for trial bosses DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Ever heard of a rolldodge? It offers almost 100% protection against most attacks, only very few attacks can go through it. That IS your shield, your main source of defense if you're not a tank, and you can block more too, btw.. If you don't know how to use it, it's nobody's fault.
Ask for advice to those bunnyblades that can rolldodge from Alessia to BRK and back, avoiding nearly all damage thrown at them, damage that no shield in this game could protect from. That is the defense you are looking for, and if you combine it with Shuffle, it's even more potent - again, a stamina ability.
Hahahaha!
You must be new
Please list all attacks that go through rolldodge. And count how many they are in comparison to the total amount of skills and factor in the fact that not everybody uses them.
Hi, here's a list (listing skills that actually see use in PvP):
Warden: Birds, Shalks, Swarm DoT ticks, Northern Storm, Soul Assault, Destro Ulti, Meteor - pretty much everything except Light/Heavy attacks in case of Warden
Templar: Jabs/Sweeps, Explosive Charge, Spear, Sun Fire DoT ticks, Purifying Light, Unstable Core, Jbeam, Soul Assault, Destro Ulti, Meteor, Empowering Sweep - pretty much everything except Javeling & Light/Heavy attacks (and Dank Flare for gankplar builds)
Dragonknight: All DoT ticks, Leap, Soul Assault, Talons, Fossilize, Meteor, Destro Ulti, Soul Assault - pretty much just Inferno, Whip & Light/Heavy attacks dodgeable
Sorcerer: Curse, Wrath explosion, Soul Assault, Meteor, Atronach, Destro Ulti, Mines, Streak - pretty much just Frags, Pet Attacks & Light/Heavy attacks dodgeable
Nightblade: Soul Harvest, Soul Tether, Lotus Fan DoT ticks, Cripple DoT ticks, Soul Assault, Meteor, Destro Ulti, Magicka Detonation, - Assassin's Will, Concealed Weapon, Funnel Health, Shadow Image attacks & Light/Heavy Attacks are dodgeable
Honorary mentions: Skoria procs, Wall of Elements, Grothdar
Most of the stamina skills are dodgeable (somewhat ironically), with notable exceptions being Hurricane, Jabs, Caltrops & Cutting Dive (and Dawnbreaker next patch).
Not so sure "most attacks" is an appropriate term for what dodge roll covers.
Oh, and most of those "bunnyblades" you mentioned are free AP, even to my stamblade with zero undodgeable skills - no one can dodge forever (not sure why you'd even want to, given that most damage just goes through) and most of them are god awful, just relying on procs which will be gone next patch.Edited by DDuke on August 1, 2017 5:23PM4 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Medium deserves a penetration passive just like light armor does. The 12% weapon damage is eff all compared to 1/3 of pen coming from an armor passive.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That is not rule. Penetration is simply another damage boosting stat like wep dmg, cp, crit. There is no advantage in getting 18k penetration if you could get more damage with something else. It is just in most cases the most cost effective. Current sharpened is super cost effective, patched sharpened not so much (or should I say not at all). TFS is still super cost effective, nerfed spriggan maybe not so much. I could go on and on...Edited by SodanTok on August 1, 2017 8:57PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Ever heard of a rolldodge? It offers almost 100% protection against most attacks, only very few attacks can go through it. That IS your shield, your main source of defense if you're not a tank, and you can block more too, btw.. If you don't know how to use it, it's nobody's fault.
Ask for advice to those bunnyblades that can rolldodge from Alessia to BRK and back, avoiding nearly all damage thrown at them, damage that no shield in this game could protect from. That is the defense you are looking for, and if you combine it with Shuffle, it's even more potent - again, a stamina ability.
Hahahaha!
You must be new
Please list all attacks that go through rolldodge. And count how many they are in comparison to the total amount of skills and factor in the fact that not everybody uses them.
Every single Ground Targeted AoE in the game. Soul Assault, Templars Jesus beam, DoTs, Cliff Racer. It also has increasing cost, whereas shields don't.
So there are few direct attacks that will go through dodge roll. Nice list.
Dodge roll is subject to cost reduction from the start via two different means. 28% via armor passive and more from CP It also offers a moment of continued protection after the dodge roll completes.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean - we can discuss the LA/MA issues until our heads turn blue and probably not reach a consensus. I want the Armour lines reworked altogether. The discussion just shows how messed up the balance is. To me, every armour should come with a clear choice.
Light - superior damage but weaker on defenses. If light armour would get reworked and the necessary buffs in place, one could then address perceived issues like Magicka based shields.
Medium - distinctly less damage than LA but much greater survivability.
Heavy - almost no damage but greatest survivability.
It has been too long since there wasn't a clear cut no brainer for Armour choice. The era of Heavy really did a huge amount of damage here. Armour choice should always have its advantages and downsides.
i think this breakdown is way too simplified for the game and its scope.
One of the reasons we got the increases in hvy arm dmg was from folks who did not want hvy arm pigeon-jholed into no-damage roles - unable to even try for many of the DPS group roles. For some the concept of the toothless knight is not a good meme to have locked down in game mechanics.
Right now, each drives you to wherever you want to go thru different routes.
if i were going to make a change, it would be to improve medium survivability with a boost to AOE resistance - maybe a flat-out reduction against AOE damage. To me the increase in armor for medium could even be dropped to provide more circumstantial defense weight. The problem with "half way" armor value is anybody geared to penetrate boss or hvy will just be ignoring it.
So re-imagine "medium" not as "hard to cut thru" but "better coverage in vital spots" for key reductions and dodge empowerment.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with the 12% wep dmg passive, is its based off your wep dmg. If you have a sustain build, that passive gets worse, and you kinda have to run a sustain build these days unless you run only in a big group.
It needs to work differently so it gives more reward even to ppl running high sustain builds. 12% wep dmg + 1200 armor penetration and 8% extra damage to shields/wards. Just an example.
PC EU
PvP only3 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭I get that the devs are trying to bring penetration buffs in line with other options. Nerfed Spriggan's is about as strong as Hundings, a piece of nerfed Kragh is about as strong as a piece of Veledrith. Options are great when they're balanced, but all this is doing is nerfing builds that didn't already have a full set of Twice fang, which is basically 5% stronger than everything else.
If TFS is a must-have that you pick up in a 12 person trial, make it a must-have for vet trial speed runs. Why does every 4 person vet dungeon mob have 18,200 resistance? From wimpy magic caster mobs wearing skirts to tanky bosses, they're all packing 18k resistance and it's up to a tiny group of 4 to break through it all.
A 4 person group is too casual to keep tabs on who has a crushing glyph, and whether someone has NMG. The Stam DPS is usually paired with a magica DPS so it's a solo effort to get to 18k pen. All the Stam DPS classes are pressed to wear TFS the whole time, slot the Lover and put points into piercing. Cookie cutter max DPS builds are so boring, I'd love to see 4 person dungeons with reduced mob resistances, either that or swap in penetration for the medium armor as the OP suggests.
4900 penetration >> +12% weapon damage for DPS2 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the issue is as simple as the WD increase from 5 medium can't be buffed with major brutality, just increase the buff to 14-15%. There. Now the WD increase will behave as if buffed.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Add penetration to medium but maybe like half what light adds since we spam around on dw double sharpen gear0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the issue is as simple as the WD increase from 5 medium can't be buffed with major brutality, just increase the buff to 14-15%. There. Now the WD increase will behave as if buffed.
15% weapon damage is still nothing compared to 1/3rd of a bosses penetration limit. In todays age you need to hit 18.2k pen or you are severely handicapping yourself, period.0 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Please list all attacks that go through rolldodge. And count how many they are in comparison to the total amount of skills and factor in the fact that not everybody uses them.
you cant use the 'fact that not everybody uses them' as a factor. because its irrelevant to the equation.0
