Wardens suck..( pve and pvp )

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

Yet to fight a good warden in duels or cyrodil. Yes i know they ar me mainly a "support class" but that doesn't mean you shouldnt be able to make a decent pvp dps build. Even pve for that matter they underperform a ton.
Templars are healers but you can get spanked hard by a magplar in pvp.

So what are some suggestions to make warden stam and magicka stronger because we all know they need it.

My only suggestion would be make subterranean assault and deep fissure a ability that casts on target and when blows up does same splash damage as normally.

Like haunting curse can you imagine if haunting curse was like deep fissure?!? It would be the worst skill ever.

So why is it acceptable on a underperforming class?

Plus it will even make pve better since you dont HAVE to be facing where you want it to drop. The damage is nice on it i admit i get 30k ticks on it at times on my stam warden ( pve )

But pvp def needs work. I dont think the change they made that hides the timing of the attack is going to make a difference.

#WardenLivesMatter

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

Spam cliff racer. That's all you need as a warden

ArchMikem · July 2017

I just wanted an Ice Mage. But now she's gathering dust.

Make Ice Great Again....or for once, I dunno. Was it ever good to begin with?

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Spam cliff racer. That's all you need as a warden

Doesnt work against me lol

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

I just wanted an Ice Mage. But now she's gathering dust.

Make Ice Great Again....or for once, I dunno. Was it ever good to begin with?

No haha

Mojmir · July 2017

i like that i can log in and feed my warden's horses for now.

Chilly-McFreeze · July 2017

PvP
1) stand back
2) Spam pigeons
3) ???
4) Profit

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

PvP
1) stand back
2) Spam pigeons
3) ???
4) Profit

Lol that might work against noobs any decent player can heal through and block

Maikon · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Spam cliff racer. That's all you need as a warden

You sir, obviously have no clue what you're talking about, learn the class before you speak.

Floki_Vilgerdarson · July 2017

You can't expect a "jack of all trades" class to excel against classes that are designed to excel at one role primarily.

You can't have it all.

Taleof2Cities · July 2017

The class may underperform in a DPS role ... but outperforms in an off-heals or off-tank role.

How does that "suck" if you can play those roles just fine?

VinyParsley2016 · July 2017

must nerf Warden

O_LYKOS · July 2017

People have been building, playing and mastering the other classes for years now. People have been playing the warden for 2 months. I'm sure one day you will lose to a warden. Give it time.

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

Maikon wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Spam cliff racer. That's all you need as a warden

You sir, obviously have no clue what you're talking about, learn the class before you speak.

I have a damn good warden. Though it is a tank. But from my experience in PvP all wardens seem to do is spam the damn bird.

Waffennacht · July 2017

Lol, you haven't fought me then. I can count on one hand the amount of players I've lost to on my warden.

Even got a bunch of "way to go" whispers.

I got a whole new take on the class too.

Bromburak · July 2017

A stam DK doesn't have burst , so what? Therefor he has other strong advantages.
And this is the key how you should play all classes, focus on their strengths.

Did you play a Warden as a tank while benefit from strong buffs and self heals?
This is might the only class that you could run with almost only class skills on bars.
(I don't mention sorc possibilities because they have too much passive or toggle class skills, and less active skills)

Warden has a bit more to offer than all other classes, what makes him interesting.
Remember when most of us had to play 2H as stamina class for at least some heal and a buff?
Our class morphs were ***, no matter if Sorc, DK or Templar for a very long time
and we had to build workarounds and ended up with 2 class skills on the bar only.

That was really bad design.

I agree that Warden has not much to offer when it comes to DD, but the question
is , do all classes need to cover all roles today?

I think making a choice is not too bad as long ESO supports a class system.
Personally, I like to play a unique class including active and passive abilities
without depending so much on "external" skill lines.

Ihatenightblades · July 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The class may underperform in a DPS role ... but outperforms in an off-heals or off-tank role.

How does that "suck" if you can play those roles just fine?

Because they cant kill cant nothing.. and when you are the only class that struggles to kill in pvp then you suck.. lol this isnt just me im talking about every warden i have encountered along with the problems i have with mine.

And you said "outperforms in off tank and off heals" lmaooo so they cant perform good as normal tanks and normal healers? Answer is no dk are better tanks and templars are better healers.

Lol the class sucks.

idk · July 2017

Cannot speak to PvP but in PvE the Warden does not suck with single target damage. Below I are two links demonstrating such on a test dummy. Both have parses that are completely self buffed.

Watch entire video. parses for two slightly different builds and the second one is best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmSYzISW8Q&feature=youtu.be#t=111.6667917

This is a build with a video parse towards the end. Not a bad parse.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-mirakuru-stamina-warden-morrowind-dlc-ready/

As a tank, Was in a group this week with a Warden tanking the Warrior in HM. Did a great job.

As a healer, have been in clears of vHoF with one of the healers on a Warden. That is not off healing.

Thogard · July 2017

stam wardens are OP if built right in PvP. They clean up in the battlegrounds. Their sustain is unreal.

If you want to find a bad warden, just look for the idiots that slot the bear as a stam player. The good wardens are using the healing ult and doing insane dmg with poison injection, flurry, crabs, and some DPS sets.

Kneighbors · July 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The class may underperform in a DPS role ... but outperforms in an off-heals or off-tank role.

How does that "suck" if you can play those roles just fine?

Off heal and off tank? What is this? In my grouping tool I can only choose between Tank, DD and Heal. Please ask ZoS to make a position for off-tank and off-heal and I saw many players with very strong potential for off-DD

qsnoopyjr · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Cannot speak to PvP but in PvE the Warden does not suck with single target damage. Below I are two links demonstrating such on a test dummy. Both have parses that are completely self buffed.

Watch entire video. parses for two slightly different builds and the second one is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmSYzISW8Q&feature=youtu.be#t=111.6667917

This is a build with a video parse towards the end. Not a bad parse.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-mirakuru-stamina-warden-morrowind-dlc-ready/

As a tank, Was in a group this week with a Warden tanking the Warrior in HM. Did a great job.

As a healer, have been in clears of vHoF with one of the healers on a Warden. That is not off healing.

what UI is that?

Trinotops · July 2017

I've played quite a bit of Stam Warden in PvP and I'd say it's the 2nd or 3rd best stam class. Great survivability and huge burst if built properly. I manage to land scorch quite often and have yet to fight someone who has actively tried to avoid it. I'd say that in terms of PvP, Warden is in a very good spot right now.

Thogard · July 2017

BTW guys, trinotops and taleof2cities are both really really good players. Top 1% in BGs in PC NA. If they say something, it's legit.

idk · July 2017

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Cannot speak to PvP but in PvE the Warden does not suck with single target damage. Below I are two links demonstrating such on a test dummy. Both have parses that are completely self buffed.

Watch entire video. parses for two slightly different builds and the second one is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmSYzISW8Q&feature=youtu.be#t=111.6667917

This is a build with a video parse towards the end. Not a bad parse.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-mirakuru-stamina-warden-morrowind-dlc-ready/

As a tank, Was in a group this week with a Warden tanking the Warrior in HM. Did a great job.

As a healer, have been in clears of vHoF with one of the healers on a Warden. That is not off healing.

what UI is that?

@qsnoopyjr

I assume you are speaking of the combat report shown at the end of the parse. I believe both used Combat Metrics which is probably the best tool for reviewing a fight in the game.

One can not only see the details of their damage and buffs they have, but also debuffs on the target such as Fracture and Vulnerability.

Great tool for all roles. Obvious for damage dealers, but for tanks they can see their uptime for debuffs such as maim and healers can see their uptime for Minor Beserk (combat prayer) to know areas they can improve. Great all around addon.

Drdeath20 · July 2017

They rely on world skills

Kneighbors · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Cannot speak to PvP but in PvE the Warden does not suck with single target damage. Below I are two links demonstrating such on a test dummy. Both have parses that are completely self buffed.

Watch entire video. parses for two slightly different builds and the second one is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmSYzISW8Q&feature=youtu.be#t=111.6667917

This is a build with a video parse towards the end. Not a bad parse.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-mirakuru-stamina-warden-morrowind-dlc-ready/

As a tank, Was in a group this week with a Warden tanking the Warrior in HM. Did a great job.

As a healer, have been in clears of vHoF with one of the healers on a Warden. That is not off healing.

what UI is that?

@qsnoopyjr

I assume you are speaking of the combat report shown at the end of the parse. I believe both used Combat Metrics which is probably the best tool for reviewing a fight in the game.

One can not only see the details of their damage and buffs they have, but also debuffs on the target such as Fracture and Vulnerability.

Great tool for all roles. Obvious for damage dealers, but for tanks they can see their uptime for debuffs such as maim and healers can see their uptime for Minor Beserk (combat prayer) to know areas they can improve. Great all around addon.

no he was meaning UI, I also wonder. sorry for offtop

RavenRoxie · July 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Yet to fight a good warden in duels or cyrodil. Yes i know they ar me mainly a "support class" but that doesn't mean you shouldnt be able to make a decent pvp dps build. Even pve for that matter they underperform a ton.
Templars are healers but you can get spanked hard by a magplar in pvp.

So what are some suggestions to make warden stam and magicka stronger because we all know they need it.

My only suggestion would be make subterranean assault and deep fissure a ability that casts on target and when blows up does same splash damage as normally.

Like haunting curse can you imagine if haunting curse was like deep fissure?!? It would be the worst skill ever.

So why is it acceptable on a underperforming class?

Plus it will even make pve better since you dont HAVE to be facing where you want it to drop. The damage is nice on it i admit i get 30k ticks on it at times on my stam warden ( pve )

But pvp def needs work. I dont think the change they made that hides the timing of the attack is going to make a difference.

#WardenLivesMatter

I don't know who you've been playing against but I usually dunk on people with my warden, even harder then my mag sorc so.... :P Warden is AWESOME in Cyrodiil, so much fun too!

Vaoh · July 2017

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

You can't expect a "jack of all trades" class to excel against classes that are designed to excel at one role primarily.

You can't have it all.

Every class except Warden can DPS. It is also not desired for other roles.

You don't need to have it all, you just need to be made good enough to be considered effectively. Right now all classes that are seen at all as truly "bad" at one role are seen as BiS for another.

Here is how it all plays out for trial group composition in Morrowind:
• DKs are the very best Tanks, and also make great Mag and Stam DPS builds. One Magicka DK is mandatory in raids to maintain Engulfing Flames (10% group flame dmg buff). Stamina DKs put out amazing DPS with very little effort. They make for poor Healers.
• Sorcs are great at Mag and Stam DPS, and put out higher AoE DPS than other classes, though they do have to heavy attack a lot due to sustain issues. They make poor tanks and okay healers.
• NBs are like Sorcs, except they put out a bit less AoE DPS. However, Magicka NBs provide nice offheals. NBs as a whole provide decent group utility, access to high Major Expedition uptime which can help with positioning, and easier sustain. They aren't really worth taking for Tanks, and make okay Healers.
• Templars are the very best Healers. They are also pretty strong Tanks. Magicka Templars put out high DPS especially in execute Range. It can be useful to have a one finish off low health targets as the group transitions to attack a new target since their DPS jumps so high in execute. As a whole, it is more useful in Morrowind to take a Sorc or NB for Magicka DPS, though it is highly recommended to bring one Stamina Templar due to PotL and them pulling high DPS.

• Wardens make okay Healers and okay tanks. It is better to bring a Templar for healing or a DK for tanking, as Wardens sadly do not touch either of them in those roles. When it comes to DPS, Warden is absolutely terrible, with a gap in efficiency you won't find between any other classes for any other role. Their DPS is abysymally low, as they have few passives to support DPS, few actives to deal DPS, and a class DPS focus (Frost) which was changed mid-development into a tanking tree. Wardens currently suck at everything until they are given major, major DPS buffs.

A true "jack of all trades" would mean that a raid would go great if you brought 12 Wardens, since although they aren't truly best at any one role, they should be strong. If you tried this rn you would cry at how low the group DPS is.

Hybrid builds deal as much DPS as Magicka Wardens....

idk · July 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Cannot speak to PvP but in PvE the Warden does not suck with single target damage. Below I are two links demonstrating such on a test dummy. Both have parses that are completely self buffed.

Watch entire video. parses for two slightly different builds and the second one is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlmSYzISW8Q&feature=youtu.be#t=111.6667917

This is a build with a video parse towards the end. Not a bad parse.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-mirakuru-stamina-warden-morrowind-dlc-ready/

As a tank, Was in a group this week with a Warden tanking the Warrior in HM. Did a great job.

As a healer, have been in clears of vHoF with one of the healers on a Warden. That is not off healing.

what UI is that?

@qsnoopyjr

I assume you are speaking of the combat report shown at the end of the parse. I believe both used Combat Metrics which is probably the best tool for reviewing a fight in the game.

One can not only see the details of their damage and buffs they have, but also debuffs on the target such as Fracture and Vulnerability.

Great tool for all roles. Obvious for damage dealers, but for tanks they can see their uptime for debuffs such as maim and healers can see their uptime for Minor Beserk (combat prayer) to know areas they can improve. Great all around addon.

no he was meaning UI, I also wonder. sorry for offtop

@Kneighbors and @qsnoopyjr

If you are referring to the health and resource bars of the one that is just a video I think that is LUI Extended or Foundry Tactical Combat. I prefer LUI so I can see individual health bars when there are multiple bosses in a fight.

The buffs and debuffs with the bars counting down remaining time is Srendarr.

The upper left corner is Combat Log Statistics

The two I did not link the two add-ons where the original add-on is required and someone has created a patch to update it to a the current API.

I think I covered everything visible in the first link.

Drdeath20 · July 2017

Wardens need world skills for damage but the have great secondary skills for individual fights. The wardens that spam cliff racer in a 1v1 fight are terrible

paulsimonps · July 2017

This thread is funny. While yes their PvE DPS is lacking. They are not lacking in the roles of PvE Healer or Tank. And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to them being bad in PvP. They rock. They get lots of utility and undodgable spamable. Oh, and you can only block for so long unless you are a tank so good luck getting sustained down to hell, especially if they combo that with resource poisons. And they got good burst with the shalks, if they line it up well. And while not used too often, the Frozen Gate can be devastating in seige fights. Its range is devastating, pull em out one by one and watch them get nuked.