Ill give the short version (there have been way longer ) of my 2 cents on mSorc. 30k is very achievable on a target dummy with crafted (non trial/non VMA) gear at max CP. Obviously, you arent at max CP, but I do think that 20k is very achievable with a little work.

The simplest way to do that is with a heavy attack pet build. The pet I am talking about is a volatile familiar. Unless you are dead set against running a pet, I would really suggest trying it out. The DPS is very very strong for a single skill, although not quite as much as it used to be. With that in mind, I would look to get your hands on some necropotence gear. It really isnt that pricey if you dont get the weapons. I would suggest getting the lower 5 armor pieces in divines, and then perhaps saving for the staves when you start running trials. Willpower is the best jewelry to wear until you get trial pieces. You can use your julianos for the head shoulders and weapons until you get a monster set.

Gear:

Easy to get: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 3 Willpower (jewelry), 3 Julianos (Head, Shoulders, Weapons). This can pull 30k at max CP on a dummy.

Little harder: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 3 Willpower (jewelry), 2 Ilambris (head and Shoulders), Random sharp weapons.

Competitive Trial: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Boots, Weapons), 4 Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Master Archictect(Trial Jewelry and any lower armor piece, belt in this example), 2 ilambris (head and shoulders)

Best in Slot: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 4 Moondancer/etc. (Jewelry and front bar weapon), 2 Ilambris, 1 Back bar VMA. Dont run this build unless you have VMA and Trial weapons in perfect traits.

I list these in stages, so it makes it easy to adapt as you get some of the harder dropped gear from trials and VMA. No point in dropping coin on Necro staffs until you have 4 pieces of one of the trial sets. I also do it this way to make it so you have to recraft as little as possible as you move to the next stage.

The beauty of a heavy attack build with necopotence is that your max magic and sustain will no longer be an issue. You shouldnt have to devote anything to regen. All spell damage glyphs and blue magic/health food. The other great thing about a pet is that not only do you get max magic from the necro gear, you also get a nice chunk of health from your sorc passives.

Bars:

This is how I setup my Bars for a heavy attack build. It will clear any piece of content in this game, and can pull about 36k on a dummy with absolutely no help from anyone.

Front: Inner Light, Mages Wrath, Bound Aegis, Volatile Familiar, Hardened Ward, Elemental Rage
Back: Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Bound Aegis, Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey, Meteor

This might not be perfectly Ideal for min/maxing, but i do believe it is ideal for a simplified rotation to hit that 30k barrier. There is no reason to go for an end game meta rotation until you can pull 30kish with a simplier build. If you are not prepared to run spell power potions, than simply drop Mages Wrath for Power Surge. You really dont need an execute on a sorc unless you are in PVP or in a trial. On a target dummy, you can also drop your shield for elemental Drain and switch your ultimates (we need a destro skill on both bars at all times). You should never run elemental drain in group content, that is your tank/healers job to give you those buffs, and on the same note, you should always have a shield in group content. You are your own first line of defense.

Rotation:

Playing a heavy attack sorc is like playing your favorite tune. Everything is a 4 count. 4 back bar skills, 4 front bar skills and repeat. The catch is that a heavy attack counts as 2 skills. So the simplest 30k+ rotation in the game looks like this (LA=Light Attack, HA = Heavy Attack).

Above 20% boss health and All trash fights
LA>Liquid Lighting, LA>Elemental Blockade, LA>Volatile Familiar, LA> Daedric Prey, Bar Swap, HAx2, Bar Swap, repeat.

Below 20% boss health
LA>Liquid Lighting, LA>Elemental Blockade, LA>Volatile Familiar, LA> Daedric Prey, Bar Swap, LA>Mages Wrathx4, Bar Swap, repeat.

You will still weave you back bar DOTs, but its not the end of the world if you miss some. On a 36k parse, the Light attacks do around 3k. Only break this rotation to drop an ultimate, cast a shield if needed, or reapply potions or power surge. If you dont run an execute, than just do the first part. Your single target damage will be strong, and your AOE damage will be insane. Again, I do not claim this to be a meta build nor completely my original work. I personally do not run this in older trials, but it works there just fine. I have been running it in VHOF and it works great there with all the magic drain mechanics. I have had more people than I can count come back to me and thank me after giving this a go.

The best part about this rotation other than the simplicity is that it will infinitely sustain as long as you keep a potion (can be the cheap ones) up at all times. You can see that I gain 1146 magic per second and only spend 1046.

Completely Self Buffed Parse:

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw I run something similar (5x necro, 4x infallible, 2x ilambris) and can confirm that it works. Still trying to improve my rotation and bar setup but the general idea is very simple and effective.

For HotR I want to try out 5x spinner, 5x necro, 1x ilambris with precise weapons and the shadow mundus.

Next patch, infallible might actually be better than moondancer. They are very close either way. I dont want to get too ahead of ourselves about next patch. It will be interesting for sure. Hopefully, it will lead to a scenario where people have a lot more options instead of Sharp Weapons and Thief or GTFO.

Your last sentence could not be more spot on. DPS is way more about rotation than gear. The difference between crafted gear and BIS in my testing is like 6-8k. The difference between a good rotation and a bad one is like 25k. Haha. Also, always keep it simple. I am not saying you cant do better than this (i can hit right around 40k with a much more complicated rotation), but if you cant be effective at the simple version, no way you will be effective at the harder version. Another thing is that as a general rule, a more complicated rotation is less forgiving to mistakes, which means that you could end up behind a much simpler build unless you are nearly perfect.

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ill give the short version (there have been way longer ) of my 2 cents on mSorc. 30k is very achievable on a target dummy with crafted (non trial/non VMA) gear at max CP. Obviously, you arent at max CP, but I do think that 20k is very achievable with a little work.

The simplest way to do that is with a heavy attack pet build. The pet I am talking about is a volatile familiar. Unless you are dead set against running a pet, I would really suggest trying it out. The DPS is very very strong for a single skill, although not quite as much as it used to be. With that in mind, I would look to get your hands on some necropotence gear. It really isnt that pricey if you dont get the weapons. I would suggest getting the lower 5 armor pieces in divines, and then perhaps saving for the staves when you start running trials. Willpower is the best jewelry to wear until you get trial pieces. You can use your julianos for the head shoulders and weapons until you get a monster set.

Gear:

Easy to get: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 3 Willpower (jewelry), 3 Julianos (Head, Shoulders, Weapons). This can pull 30k at max CP on a dummy.

Little harder: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 3 Willpower (jewelry), 2 Ilambris (head and Shoulders), Random sharp weapons.

Competitive Trial: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Boots, Weapons), 4 Moondancer/Infallible Aether/Master Archictect(Trial Jewelry and any lower armor piece, belt in this example), 2 ilambris (head and shoulders)

Best in Slot: 5 Necro (Chest, Legs, gloves, Belt, Boots), 4 Moondancer/etc. (Jewelry and front bar weapon), 2 Ilambris, 1 Back bar VMA. Dont run this build unless you have VMA and Trial weapons in perfect traits.

I list these in stages, so it makes it easy to adapt as you get some of the harder dropped gear from trials and VMA. No point in dropping coin on Necro staffs until you have 4 pieces of one of the trial sets. I also do it this way to make it so you have to recraft as little as possible as you move to the next stage.

The beauty of a heavy attack build with necopotence is that your max magic and sustain will no longer be an issue. You shouldnt have to devote anything to regen. All spell damage glyphs and blue magic/health food. The other great thing about a pet is that not only do you get max magic from the necro gear, you also get a nice chunk of health from your sorc passives.

Bars:

This is how I setup my Bars for a heavy attack build. It will clear any piece of content in this game, and can pull about 36k on a dummy with absolutely no help from anyone.

Front: Inner Light, Mages Wrath, Bound Aegis, Volatile Familiar, Hardened Ward, Elemental Rage
Back: Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Bound Aegis, Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey, Meteor

This might not be perfectly Ideal for min/maxing, but i do believe it is ideal for a simplified rotation to hit that 30k barrier. There is no reason to go for an end game meta rotation until you can pull 30kish with a simplier build. If you are not prepared to run spell power potions, than simply drop Mages Wrath for Power Surge. You really dont need an execute on a sorc unless you are in PVP or in a trial. On a target dummy, you can also drop your shield for elemental Drain and switch your ultimates (we need a destro skill on both bars at all times). You should never run elemental drain in group content, that is your tank/healers job to give you those buffs, and on the same note, you should always have a shield in group content. You are your own first line of defense.

Rotation:

Playing a heavy attack sorc is like playing your favorite tune. Everything is a 4 count. 4 back bar skills, 4 front bar skills and repeat. The catch is that a heavy attack counts as 2 skills. So the simplest 30k+ rotation in the game looks like this (LA=Light Attack, HA = Heavy Attack).

Above 20% boss health and All trash fights
LA>Liquid Lighting, LA>Elemental Blockade, LA>Volatile Familiar, LA> Daedric Prey, Bar Swap, HAx2, Bar Swap, repeat.

Below 20% boss health
LA>Liquid Lighting, LA>Elemental Blockade, LA>Volatile Familiar, LA> Daedric Prey, Bar Swap, LA>Mages Wrathx4, Bar Swap, repeat.

You will still weave you back bar DOTs, but its not the end of the world if you miss some. On a 36k parse, the Light attacks do around 3k. Only break this rotation to drop an ultimate, cast a shield if needed, or reapply potions or power surge. If you dont run an execute, than just do the first part. Your single target damage will be strong, and your AOE damage will be insane. Again, I do not claim this to be a meta build nor completely my original work. I personally do not run this in older trials, but it works there just fine. I have been running it in VHOF and it works great there with all the magic drain mechanics. I have had more people than I can count come back to me and thank me after giving this a go.

The best part about this rotation other than the simplicity is that it will infinitely sustain as long as you keep a potion (can be the cheap ones) up at all times. You can see that I gain 1146 magic per second and only spend 1046.

Completely Self Buffed Parse:

a couple questions:

wondering if i would be able to run julianos + willpower + llambris gear and run your rotation only instead of familair, substitute clench? any idea if it would be close to as effective?

does the extra magicka + pet make the rotation what it is?

would netch set be better than julianos? or netch + julianos instead of llambris?

So I have run the second setup I mentioned, but replaced Necro with Julianos. (5 julianos, 2 ilambris, 3 Willpower, random sharp weapons). You can pull right around 30k on a target dummy with a pet and the same HA rotation I listed.

And yes, you can do what you are suggesting. In VHOF, the forth boss is just not very pet friendly. They get stuck in the traps and die. On that fight, I replace Necro with Netch, and my Familiar with Clench and Boundless Storm (both shock damage). I also swap my back bar staff from fire to lighting. It works just fine, but its certainly a DPS loss. The build I run is the BIS build I listed, but just switching necro for netch.

The reality is that all 3 sets (julianos, Netch, Necro) are all pretty close. A couple things to think about. If you could only have one, Julianos might actually be your best bet. It is going to boost all your skills and doesnt require anything special to make it effective.

Necro is more damage because of all the magic you get. Necro gives you a total of 6901 max magic if you have a pet. That is equivalent to approximately 657 spell damage (10.5:1), which is def better than julianos. The other upside is that shields scale of max magic which is really nice. The Downside is that your Heavy attacks only scale of spell damage, so they are actually weaker with necro, and of course, you need to run a pet. I dont love the pet AI in this game, but the damage is just too go to pass up. And like I said, the extra health is really nice.

Netch IMO is the most narrow of the three. It gives 400 Spell damage with the 5th piece bonus, compared to 300 with julianos, and 380 for necro (just the 5th piece), BUT it only applies to shock damage. So things like Frags, Curse, your pet, Meteor, fire blockade, 2/3rds of your force pulse, etc, dont get any real benefit from it. Now you can certainly build to maximize your shock damage abilities, but it really narrows your options.

If a brand new sorc comes to me and asks what gear to run. I will probably tell them to start with julianos as its super easy to get and then work towards getting necro. Like I said, the armor pieces arent that bad anymore. I have 3 full gold sets of it. Haha. I would then say that if you are really pushing score for trials then go farm Netch for the handful of fights that arent pet friendly.

EDIT: As to a Pet vs Clench while wearing Julianos, I want to say that clench is usually like 1.5-2k with julianos, a little more with netch (assuming its shock clench). My pet in that parse did 5.1k. You can certainly run clench instead of a pet, but you are gonna lose about 3k DPS at least. Heck just LL and my Pet pull 11k.

The other day, I wanted to see what you could do on a sorc without bar-swapping. I ran the BIS setup (with double lighting) and my bar was: Curse, LL, Blockade, Pet, Elemental Drain, Elemental Rage, and it pulled 32k. Didnt bar swap once. IMO, if you arent using all those skills (save for drain in group stuff), you are leaving a lot of DPS on the table.

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Ill give the short version (there have been way longer ) of my 2 cents on mSorc. 30k is very achievable on a target dummy with crafted (non trial/non VMA) gear at max CP. Obviously, you arent at max CP, but I do think that 20k is very achievable with a little work.

The simplest way to do that is with a heavy attack pet build. The pet I am talking about is a volatile familiar. Unless you are dead set against running a pet, I would really suggest trying it out. The DPS is very very strong for a single skill, although not quite as much as it used to be. With that in mind, I would look to get your hands on some necropotence gear. It really isnt that pricey if you dont get the weapons. I would suggest getting the lower 5 armor pieces in divines, and then perhaps saving for the staves when you start running trials. Willpower is the best jewelry to wear until you get trial pieces. You can use your julianos for the head shoulders and weapons until you get a monster set.

I don't want to change the character I started this thread about to a pet build, but I did try it out on a different character, also a MagSorc who has been languishing for a while. She misses out on some stats because like many of my original characters she's an RP build and as such not a magicka race (she's Imperial) but it has indeed improved her. Some of the skills still need levelling because she's never used them before, so that's still a work in progress. Thanks for the idea and the detailed information.

Surely. They are many ways to accomplish the same goal (kill stuff before it kills you). I simply like to point people to this build because of it's simplicity. I do not believe there is an easier way in this game to hit 30k+ on a target dummy, and I have a magic and stam DPS of every class. Sorcs are no longer the king of single target DPS, but they are very much in the running for king of AOE DPS. They have 2 class skills, liquid lighting and volatile familiar, that do a TON of aoe damage (and the single target aint bad either). I get not wanting to run a pet, but boy they sure are powerful. I still suggest giving it a go for the afternoon. Haha

The only other thing I might suggest, there are more than enough skill points in this game to unlock all the skills for both builds, and it only takes an extra 5 slots of inventory to carry necro. Both of my magic sorcs always carry Necro, Netch, Julianos, and PVP gear. You never know what the situation might call for. No reason that you would need to try it on a different toon. One toon can have many builds. Altmer is certainly the best race for a magic sorc, you will feel the difference on any other race except perhaps a Dunmer which is a pretty close second.