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Are PS4-NA server Guilds really charging members to use Trader?
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KristaVegas✭✭✭KristaVegas wrote: »andreasranasen wrote: »The GM I made my thread about just withdrew 9.5mil from the bank. Probably to buy her a house *sipping that Lipton tea*
Yes, I withdrew 9.5 million. After depositing 10 million. Effectively adding half a million to the trader bid, which all members can see in the bank history. Did you add half a million? Nope, too busy complaining about 15k. Wow, some people love to lie and cause trouble don't they. If you're unhappy in a guild, leave. End of discussion. I wish you the best.
I'm sure you had a good reason but why would someone deposit 10 million gold just to turn around and withdraw 9.5 million?
There's a very good reason. I deposited 10 million so it would be harder to know how much we bid for the spies watching our guild bank. Then after bidding closed, I withdrew the remaining 9.5. Meaning 500k of my own gold went into the bid to strengthen it.11 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the biggest reason guilds have to charge so much is because the population and prices have gone down significantly so they are not making as much money on sales to pay for bids.
My guild recently changed to a $10,000 weekly donation for trader accesss and i'm ok with that. They usually have prime locations, but even still Items are sitting in the trader for much longer because people aren't buying like they used to.
Just like everyone else I have the option to leave the guild if im not happy with the cost, but i'm not the type of person that expects a guild to pay 5mil for a trader and get a freebee. So if you really have a problem paying for a guild the join a free one and see how much stuff you DON'T sell.
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DivinityDay✭✭✭KristaVegas wrote: »KristaVegas wrote: »andreasranasen wrote: »The GM I made my thread about just withdrew 9.5mil from the bank. Probably to buy her a house *sipping that Lipton tea*
Yes, I withdrew 9.5 million. After depositing 10 million. Effectively adding half a million to the trader bid, which all members can see in the bank history. Did you add half a million? Nope, too busy complaining about 15k. Wow, some people love to lie and cause trouble don't they. If you're unhappy in a guild, leave. End of discussion. I wish you the best.
I'm sure you had a good reason but why would someone deposit 10 million gold just to turn around and withdraw 9.5 million?
There's a very good reason. I deposited 10 million so it would be harder to know how much we bid for the spies watching our guild bank. Then after bidding closed, I withdrew the remaining 9.5. Meaning 500k of my own gold went into the bid to strengthen it.
Of which anyone in your guild can see via guild history. So, yeah.@AmariaNaria's chars:
NA - PC
Divinity Day Sorc DPS - AD
Amaria Day DK TANK - AD WW
Talia Shade NB BOW/DW - AD WW
Amaria Naria NB 2H/DW - AD WW
Kali Day Magplar - AD VAMP
Dekaria Bombblade AD2 -
SSlarg✭✭✭I prefer the freedom of choice,
if I want to donate and how much. the moment a guild tells me they Need to charge a weekly fee,
I am gone. I'd rather sell in chat lol.PS4 NA PSN - SSlarg
Currently Looking To Buy:
NoThInG3 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Most active Guilds can make 2 , 3 Million a week if all their Members Sell regularly on the Guildstore
so those people that are forced to Donate are only making the Guildmasters Richer.
The guild master is certainly not getting richer. Everything the guild earns go towards bids and building a small pot to ensure the guild can keep making bids during bidding wars and such. Nothing into the leaders pockets, though I am sure there has been one or two crooked leaders who obviously would not last long. Something some like to profess or just do not understand the bids guilds make to keep their trader.
To OP, some guilds do have required payments but there are many great guilds that merely have a sales requirement which is usually pretty reasonable. The trading guild I am in has a decent location. Not in the top city. I sell what I want and have never had to pay any gold to stay.
This should be pretty constant across the servers.
That's not my point.
Some Guilds make 3 Mil a week.
They use only 1.5 for a Trader.
Which leaves 1.5 Profit for the Guildmaster. So in the end the Donations wasn't needed.
And the next week when the bid needs to be raised? The gold will come from where? If you wait until you bid on the trader to find out you need another million gold and you don't have it in the bank, you lose the bid/trader. Keeping gold in the bank isn't really a bad idea for many reasons.
The guilds sometimes run raffles to get people to buy tickets; the prizes, if they aren't donated by guildmembers/officers come from where? Gold prizes in raffles come from where? For many guilds I seriously doubt the gm is pocketing millions in "profit".
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DivinityDay✭✭✭
I prefer a GI Joe.@AmariaNaria's chars:
NA - PC
Divinity Day Sorc DPS - AD
Amaria Day DK TANK - AD WW
Talia Shade NB BOW/DW - AD WW
Amaria Naria NB 2H/DW - AD WW
Kali Day Magplar - AD VAMP
Dekaria Bombblade AD0 -
reiverx✭✭✭✭✭KristaVegas wrote: »KristaVegas wrote: »andreasranasen wrote: »The GM I made my thread about just withdrew 9.5mil from the bank. Probably to buy her a house *sipping that Lipton tea*
Yes, I withdrew 9.5 million. After depositing 10 million. Effectively adding half a million to the trader bid, which all members can see in the bank history. Did you add half a million? Nope, too busy complaining about 15k. Wow, some people love to lie and cause trouble don't they. If you're unhappy in a guild, leave. End of discussion. I wish you the best.
I'm sure you had a good reason but why would someone deposit 10 million gold just to turn around and withdraw 9.5 million?
There's a very good reason. I deposited 10 million so it would be harder to know how much we bid for the spies watching our guild bank. Then after bidding closed, I withdrew the remaining 9.5. Meaning 500k of my own gold went into the bid to strengthen it.
Alrighty. Thanks for clarifying.0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »andreasranasen wrote: »Here comes the little white knights defending this. Watch.
Oh you mean the ones that claim this is the best way to have a market place in an mmo compared to the other 99.999999% of mmo's using the same layout?
So, just to get this out of the way, you are saying that no one can legitimately enjoy the current system for what it is? Or that no one can view these donations as worth the benefit?
Any defense is some kind of lie to defend a friend or a lie to preserve self-interest?
The opponents of these donations are objectively correct?
EDIT: Sorry, I quoted you but also included the "white knight" statement above yours when I made my reply. That should have been more clear.Edited by CromulentForumID on July 18, 2017 5:53PM0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »I might have read the OP wrong, but I read it that he is saying that when you use your own trader that they take gold out of the sales price as a fee .
If that's what he is saying, then my answer is they ( ESO ) takes that out of every sale, no matter what guild trader you use.
No... on PS4 NA at least, most of the large trading guilds require their members to pay a weekly fee just to be in the guild. That is on top of the gold they take out of the sales.
Let's be clear that, unless I am really missing something, those guilds cannot choose to eliminate that tax, or change its amount in any way. The guild gets the money, sure, but I think you deliberately chose they above to blur the line between the tax and the Guild leadership.
The person you quoted did it right.
You can disagree with the trader system, and fees, but please be fair about the criticisms.0 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭CromulentForumID wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »I might have read the OP wrong, but I read it that he is saying that when you use your own trader that they take gold out of the sales price as a fee .
If that's what he is saying, then my answer is they ( ESO ) takes that out of every sale, no matter what guild trader you use.
No... on PS4 NA at least, most of the large trading guilds require their members to pay a weekly fee just to be in the guild. That is on top of the gold they take out of the sales.
Let's be clear that, unless I am really missing something, those guilds cannot choose to eliminate that tax, or change its amount in any way. The guild gets the money, sure, but I think you deliberately chose they above to blur the line between the tax and the Guild leadership.
The person you quoted did it right.
You can disagree with the trader system, and fees, but please be fair about the criticisms.
You are completely misunderstanding me. I am not talking about the built-in tax that the game takes out of every sale. I am talking about guilds requiring their members to pay them 5k+ per week just for membership. It is right there in their guild advertisements in chat - "ABC Trading Guild now recruiting, membership dues X gold per week".
There are no built-in membership dues to simply belong to a guild.
You can disagree with my disagreement, but please be fair about what you're actually disagreeing with me about.0 -
DeadlyPhoenix✭✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »CromulentForumID wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »I might have read the OP wrong, but I read it that he is saying that when you use your own trader that they take gold out of the sales price as a fee .
If that's what he is saying, then my answer is they ( ESO ) takes that out of every sale, no matter what guild trader you use.
No... on PS4 NA at least, most of the large trading guilds require their members to pay a weekly fee just to be in the guild. That is on top of the gold they take out of the sales.
Let's be clear that, unless I am really missing something, those guilds cannot choose to eliminate that tax, or change its amount in any way. The guild gets the money, sure, but I think you deliberately chose they above to blur the line between the tax and the Guild leadership.
The person you quoted did it right.
You can disagree with the trader system, and fees, but please be fair about the criticisms.
You are completely misunderstanding me. I am not talking about the built-in tax that the game takes out of every sale. I am talking about guilds requiring their members to pay them 5k+ per week just for membership. It is right there in their guild advertisements in chat - "ABC Trading Guild now recruiting, membership dues X gold per week".
There are no built-in membership dues to simply belong to a guild.
You can disagree with my disagreement, but please be fair about what you're actually disagreeing with me about.
Right and since there is no actual system in game to keep track of dues and fees, who do you think does it? Who watches the guild history for deposits made, updates the ranks, bids on traders, holds raffles, etc etc etc....
Also when you're consistently in the same location, consistently been one of the largest and most profitable guilds on the server, that is going to create enemies. Maybe the rest of Tamriel can get by on 5-10k fees and donations because they don't have the masses trying to snipe their trader location or trying to lock them out of a trader completely out of spite.
You want one of the best trader locations consistently? Pay for it... as I said in that other thread, I would gladly pay the GM themselves for all the work they do keeping the guild operational and consistently having great traders since.... forever....
If you dont want to spend, dont. There are other free guilds. As it is though, the fees will not stop, they will continue to increase and I for one will be more than happy to pay it each time as long as there is profit to be made. At this rate, my profit to donation rate is like 10:1.... for every 1k I spend I make 10k.... it's probably higher than that even.
Go ahead and continue to complain though. I'll sit back and keep racking up money and not worry about that extra 5 "cent" a week....Edited by DeadlyPhoenix on July 18, 2017 6:22PM0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have never seen a guild on PS4 NA with a 'minimum sales' model, all I see are donations or mandatory fees.
A question for those who don't like guild fees, or minimum sales requirements for trader access, why don't you like them?
My suspicion is that people who don't like the fees are those who want to be in a guild and sell the occasional item here or there, but either don't have a lot of game time or are otherwise too busy doing what they want in the game. Unfortunately the in game activities you choose may not bring in either much money or much in the way of goods to sell.
I sacrifice maybe 10-20 minutes of my weekly game time to stock up my trader listings and make anywhere between 200-500k profit a week. I don't care about the fees I pay or calculate how much they get from my trades, I just feel that the guild is doing me a service and I make good money from minimal sales effort, so am happy to donate back.
If I suddenly get bored of selling, or change what I do and stop getting things to sell, I would not bother being in a trading guild.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.0 -
SSlarg✭✭✭I am in FIVE free trade guilds,
I make lots of gold and the best part,
the guilds I am in are Completely Free!
and we get top traders all the time.
(stop the milking of noobs)PS4 NA PSN - SSlarg
Currently Looking To Buy:
NoThInG2 -
Pandorii✭✭✭✭✭
✭I used to sell a lot on PS4/NA. Back then, I would only join 'free guild trader guilds' out of pride. My sales surely generated more than 5k a week for the trader in taxes.
After taking a break, I was shocked to find out that 'free' traders had disappeared and rates had gone up. My reason is a little off tangent though.
First, I noticed that overall prices dropped. Things like tempering alloys had gone from 13k to 8k. In other words, the same farming was earning people less overall (yet guild membership prices went up?).
Second, I noticed that it was getting harder and harder to sell stuff in traders as ZOS kept adding new items and cetegories of items to sell without revising the guild trader system on console. For example, I noticed now that if your motif didn't sell within 2 days of putting it up, it probably wasn't going to sell. Why? Because no human being would sift through 10s of 100s of pages of motifs just to find the exact style that they needed and the right page. Categories like armor and weapons also became saturated, even if you're looking for specific traits.
So that's a double-wammy. Not only is it harder to sell today than before, but it's also going to generate you less money per item compared to before - AND THAT RIGHT costs more?
Doesn't make sense to me.
EDIT: Plus, minimum sales model doesn't work on console without addons, because there's no way to really track how much someone sells.Edited by Pandorii on July 18, 2017 11:25PM1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »In answer to your original inquiry - yes, yes they are. Which is why I don't belong to any of them. And when I made a post on this forum pointing out how absurd that was, I got shot down by a half a dozen people defending their cliquey little elitist system and accusing me of being an impoverished low level pleb simply because I advocated an open market. This is why we can't have nice things.
The market is open. It just costs gold to maintain a trader in a high traffic location.
You are going to sell a lot more with a trader in Rawl'kha or Mournhold than you will with one in Anvil or Marbruk. You can literally make millions per week in the prime destinations. There is no way you'll make even a fraction of that in other locations. As such, the traders in desirable destinations have ridiculously high bidding prices (since everyone wants to be there). This is where the fees come in. You pay a fee so your guild can stay there.
You thus have a choice to make
Join a guild with no fee but sell very few items, or join a guild with a fee but sell a lot of items.
It sucks they do it this way on console, but without add-ons to monitor sales, it's the only way.
I fully understand that it costs gold to bid on prime spots, and thus trading guilds need to charge a fee to be able to bid on those spots... that part I get. But I don't consider that an "open" market. It's only open if those guilds have openings for new members and if you can afford and/or want to pay the fees. Let's say I pay 5k a week for the privilege of being able to sell stuff in a guild, but I only actually sell 10k worth of items... minus the listing fees, in-game tax, the guild's cut of those sales, and the cost of being in that guild... how much money do I actually get to keep after all of that? Is it even worth the effort? Your definition of "open market" seems to be based on a system of brick-and-mortar storefronts, operated by established businesses who pay rents and taxes and business operation fees, etc. When I say open market, I mean more along the lines of internet open market, where anyone can sell anything to anyone at any price, without having to belong to some self serving cartel *ahem* I mean trading guild.
Zone chat exists.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
FelixTheCatt✭✭✭disintegr8 wrote: »I have never seen a guild on PS4 NA with a 'minimum sales' model, all I see are donations or mandatory fees.
A question for those who don't like guild fees, or minimum sales requirements for trader access, why don't you like them?
My suspicion is that people who don't like the fees are those who want to be in a guild and sell the occasional item here or there, but either don't have a lot of game time or are otherwise too busy doing what they want in the game. Unfortunately the in game activities you choose may not bring in either much money or much in the way of goods to sell.
I sacrifice maybe 10-20 minutes of my weekly game time to stock up my trader listings and make anywhere between 200-500k profit a week. I don't care about the fees I pay or calculate how much they get from my trades, I just feel that the guild is doing me a service and I make good money from minimal sales effort, so am happy to donate back.
If I suddenly get bored of selling, or change what I do and stop getting things to sell, I would not bother being in a trading guild.
Man you couldn't be more wrong. All I do is farm as I actually enjoy gathering mats and fishing etc. Literally. You can assume all you like. I don't like guilds , find them to he quite useless and can't think of one thing being in the biggest Ps4 NA trade guild ever did for !e that I couldn't do myself. Only thing is a trader and taking more and more dues. Except for their little clique could care less about members. Having access to a global ah would serve same purpose , just cut out trader.
Xbox - Kuchini07
Eso - FaCoffinDye (EP)1 -
bloodthirstyvampire✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just sell in chat, sure you get less but you get paid faster I just put things like motifs and high level gear sets in the traderEdited by bloodthirstyvampire on July 19, 2017 12:26AM0 -
dotme✭✭✭✭✭
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For me, it's not the fact there's a fee - it's the cost. It keeps increasing (while the locations and sales revenue keep getting worse).disintegr8 wrote: »A question for those who don't like guild fees, or minimum sales requirements for trader access, why don't you like them?
I've seen a 300% hike in "dues" over the past 7 months and sales are down. Maybe that's in part because our Guildmaster doesn't seem to log on for days at a time now. That's strange because when I first joined it seemed the guild was really active - I don't know if he's lost interest or what. Members are still paying top-tier rates and it seems lately we often end up scrambling for a trader anywhere at all on Sunday nights. I don't know how to "apply" to other trading guilds though, so I'm a kinda stuck with the one I'm in at the moment.PS5NA0 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭#BOYCOTTGUILDSTHATCHARGEDUES
"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Most active Guilds can make 2 , 3 Million a week if all their Members Sell regularly on the Guildstore
so those people that are forced to Donate are only making the Guildmasters Richer.
The guild master is certainly not getting richer. Everything the guild earns go towards bids and building a small pot to ensure the guild can keep making bids during bidding wars and such. Nothing into the leaders pockets, though I am sure there has been one or two crooked leaders who obviously would not last long. Something some like to profess or just do not understand the bids guilds make to keep their trader.
To OP, some guilds do have required payments but there are many great guilds that merely have a sales requirement which is usually pretty reasonable. The trading guild I am in has a decent location. Not in the top city. I sell what I want and have never had to pay any gold to stay.
This should be pretty constant across the servers.
That's not my point.
Some Guilds make 3 Mil a week.
They use only 1.5 for a Trader.
Which leaves 1.5 Profit for the Guildmaster. So in the end the Donations wasn't needed.
1.5 mil for what trader? One guild I'm in lost our trader on a 6 mil bid. You guys are funny. Sales would have to be incredibly high to cover bids. Pretty simple, don't like the traders or guilds then don't use them. And if you are selling that much dues shouldn't be a problem.1 -
AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is pretty standard on PC NA for trader guilds. The most I've seen is 5kG per week to stay in guild. There are a lot of players in-game who would bring money into guilds through sales, and players who are afk/never sell/have left the game are only a waste of space and loss of income. Charging for membership maintains an easy and competitive way of ensuring active membership. I see no problem with this.1 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is pretty standard on PC NA for trader guilds. The most I've seen is 5kG per week to stay in guild. There are a lot of players in-game who would bring money into guilds through sales, and players who are afk/never sell/have left the game are only a waste of space and loss of income. Charging for membership maintains an easy and competitive way of ensuring active membership. I see no problem with this.
on ps4/na 1.5 can't win the worst spots in daggerfall."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
Im in the Best Trading Guilds on PS4-European server and they are FREE for all members
but most people still donate weekly out of fear
however,
I seriously don't understand why Guildleaders become this greedy to charge their members to use a Guildstore (which will earn the Guildleaders from Tax)
I hope more Guildleaders will make their Guilds FREE for members that want to Trade their stuff on the Traders
You're in the best guilds on eu?
Reg don't lie you're not allowed in any of our guilds
Edited by project-2501-84neb18_ESO on July 24, 2017 4:47PM2 -
Anne13✭✭✭✭Reg... c'mon. I mean really... you and your 30 alt accounts are not allowed in any of the top tier guilds... you must be mistaken.
1.5m for " the best trading locations "
Rawkla isn't in the top 4 pal..
The maths is simple. Contribute 5k a week. With a top location earn much, much more. Call it rent.
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Anne13✭✭✭✭Isn't this your guild reg? I'll just leave this here....
https://ibb.co/dGH69kEdited by Anne13 on July 28, 2017 8:59PM0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
For me, it's not the fact there's a fee - it's the cost. It keeps increasing (while the locations and sales revenue keep getting worse).disintegr8 wrote: »A question for those who don't like guild fees, or minimum sales requirements for trader access, why don't you like them?
I've seen a 300% hike in "dues" over the past 7 months and sales are down. Maybe that's in part because our Guildmaster doesn't seem to log on for days at a time now. That's strange because when I first joined it seemed the guild was really active - I don't know if he's lost interest or what. Members are still paying top-tier rates and it seems lately we often end up scrambling for a trader anywhere at all on Sunday nights. I don't know how to "apply" to other trading guilds though, so I'm a kinda stuck with the one I'm in at the moment.
howdy @dotme ...check out the ps4/na guild recruitment section of the forums...
I would highly recommend two awesome EP guilds I am in for low cost, excellent trader options: Morning Star and SVER True Bloods...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭Anne, Project, and Reggie, the big three on PS4 EU, all in the same thread?! Someone change the name of the thread to Yalta Conference: ESO Edition!
Let's face it, this is all talk and no action too, except one of them runs away without uttering a word. Wonder who that could be, Reggie?0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BDM1oBRJ8#t=36s
