A challenging overworld might also help with the bot problem

Teridaxus · July 2017

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

humpalicous · July 2017

Teridaxus wrote: »

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

While I can see a point for the easy overworld (grinding and questing), I would like to see a difficulty increase in general considering the power creep (even with the new sustain changes). In short, I agree with you in some sense but more in the sense that the bot problem needs to be properly addressed.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2017

It's not going to happen.

It shouldn't happen.

Let it go, go play darksouls.

Teridaxus · July 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It's not going to happen.

It shouldn't happen.

Let it go, go play darksouls.

I found the botter. Lock him up gina.

</s>

MasterSpatula · July 2017

humpalicous wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

While I can see a point for the easy overworld (grinding and questing), I would like to see a difficulty increase in general considering the power creep (even with the new sustain changes). In short, I agree with you in some sense but more in the sense that the bot problem needs to be properly addressed.

Power creep affects the powerful. The overworld is aimed at new players. Stop trying to turn content aimed at someone else into content aimed at you. It's selfish.

fastolfv_ESO · July 2017

without crafted sets in all green dropped junk you can still light attack your way through openworld. If you ever wondered why your being paired with absolutely horrible players in the group finder its because all the new players never needed to learn how any skills worked the game was so easy. Making things more challenging so people have to use skill and learn to use a little strategy would benefit everyone it wouldnt ruin a new players experience having to learn how to play

Khami · July 2017

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

without crafted sets in all green dropped junk you can still light attack your way through openworld. If you ever wondered why your being paired with absolutely horrible players in the group finder its because all the new players never needed to learn how any skills worked the game was so easy. Making things more challenging so people have to use skill and learn to use a little strategy would benefit everyone it wouldnt ruin a new players experience having to learn how to play

Was you around in 2014 when overworld once you got past your factions zones and the main story? The difficulty has been nurfed more than once over the years. The vet zones were created to get people to group, people don't want to group to do overworld content. Craglorn was a 100% group zone, if you didn't know your class and could solo group content, chances are, you didn't get far in Craglorn. Which is why the bulk of Craglorn's story is doable solo.

What you're asking for is how the game launched.

Asardes · July 2017

Should buff the mobs to about what you can find in a normal dungeon. Dolmen bosses and mobs should be about as tough as those in vet dungeons.

Kozai · July 2017

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

Making things more challenging so people have to use skill and learn to use a little strategy would benefit everyone it wouldnt ruin a new players experience having to learn how to play

And some will leave. I've got one friend who routinely burns through a couple dozen soul gems/level while leveling in overworld, and he probably plays 5x the amount I do. He just doesn't find the game easy; he can't really move and shoot at the same time, for example, or spot that he is standing in red while shooting, and so on. He knows he isn't very good, so he doesn't queue for dungeons except with us. If overworld content is made harder, what does he do? I had three other friends who found Guild Wars 2 overland content, which I think is similar in difficulty to ESO's, too hard and quit the game. They never even started ESO.

There is already hard group content, and if you go into it and there is someone else with you who isn't very good, you can just solo it and ignore them, right? If you can't, maybe that hard content is actually harder than you should be in without people you don't know and trust to be effective.

Erraln · July 2017

Simply put, there was a time when the overworld was challenging. Vet Zones in 2014. Y'know what people did when they got there?

They quit. Game nearly died. Bots are a problem, but that's not the solution.

Reverb · July 2017

This will never happen, because every time Zeni makes content even a little challenging, they are flooded with complaints that "it's too hard" and requests to nerf it. Zeni has said that they are developing for players who play for a few weeks at a time then move on. Those types of players usually want to be able to jump into a game without having to spend time learning skills or mechanics. Any barrier to the game being easy and accessible is a dissatisfier to Zeni's target market. Thus, they are reaping what they have sewn, bots and all.

DjMuscleboy02 · July 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It's not going to happen.

It shouldn't happen.

Let it go, go play darksouls.

There's a huge difference between Dark Souls and completing any overworld content with mixed attributes points and bow light attack spamming, lol.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2017

They tried challenging open world content in the very beginning of the game. It made balance issues blatantly apparent so they nerfed the crap out of it.

DMuehlhausen · July 2017

Chadak wrote: »

[snip]

True, but at the same when you don't actually have to use the skills that is a problem too.

That is one thing that made WoW good at launch. the overland stuff was pretty easy, but not until you learned out to use a few skills properly. You could just go in and take on a group of 3 or 4 enemies and just basic attack. You had to use a stun, and DoT one or a Fear if you could probably a pot as well.

In this you can just go group to group to group spamming light and heavy attacks for the most with almost no down time. The other thing that having use skills does is gets you ready for harder content. Now when people jump into a Vet Dungeon and don't know what basic skills do that is because they literally maybe never used them or almost never used them.

[Edited for removed quoted comment]

CaffeinatedMayhem · July 2017

No, it won't. At launch, leather was worth serious gold, because overland mobs were actually difficult. A VR (CP100+) mud crab would kick your ass. Still had tons of botters.

Also:

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Power creep affects the powerful. The overworld is aimed at new players. Stop trying to turn content aimed at someone else into content aimed at you. It's selfish.

MasterSpatula · July 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

[snip]

True, but at the same when you don't actually have to use the skills that is a problem too.

That is one thing that made WoW good at launch. the overland stuff was pretty easy, but not until you learned out to use a few skills properly. You could just go in and take on a group of 3 or 4 enemies and just basic attack. You had to use a stun, and DoT one or a Fear if you could probably a pot as well.

In this you can just go group to group to group spamming light and heavy attacks for the most with almost no down time. The other thing that having use skills does is gets you ready for harder content. Now when people jump into a Vet Dungeon and don't know what basic skills do that is because they literally maybe never used them or almost never used them.

Which is part of the point of having progressive difficulty in the five zones of your own Alliance. But people wanted their sandbox, wanted to be able to go anywhere at any level. Well, this is what you get.

[Edited for removed quoted comment]

Betheny · July 2017

Nobody liked Craglorn, nobody will like your horrible maps either OP.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

[snip]

True, but at the same when you don't actually have to use the skills that is a problem too.

That is one thing that made WoW good at launch. the overland stuff was pretty easy, but not until you learned out to use a few skills properly. You could just go in and take on a group of 3 or 4 enemies and just basic attack. You had to use a stun, and DoT one or a Fear if you could probably a pot as well.

In this you can just go group to group to group spamming light and heavy attacks for the most with almost no down time. The other thing that having use skills does is gets you ready for harder content. Now when people jump into a Vet Dungeon and don't know what basic skills do that is because they literally maybe never used them or almost never used them.

Which is part of the point of having progressive difficulty in the five zones of your own Alliance. But people wanted their sandbox, wanted to be able to go anywhere at any level. Well, this is what you get.

The old system wasn't great either as you overlevelled the content way too quickly. I was routinely 10 levels above the zone recommendation just because I did all side quests in a zone before moving on.

[Edited for removed quoted comment]

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

I've said it before. This game needs a difficulty slider.

Something that disables CP and downscales your gear. It's a perfect solution because it only affects the individual player. Maybe even create a "New Game+" where you can replay through the entire story at this difficulty setting.

Sure you can disable CP right now, but it's extremely expensive since you'd need to pay 3k a day (or even multiple times a day).

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

While I can see a point for the easy overworld (grinding and questing), I would like to see a difficulty increase in general considering the power creep (even with the new sustain changes). In short, I agree with you in some sense but more in the sense that the bot problem needs to be properly addressed.

Power creep affects the powerful. The overworld is aimed at new players. Stop trying to turn content aimed at someone else into content aimed at you. It's selfish.

The problem is there is less and less challenging content in the game due to constant nerfs. Vet dungeons are so easy that you can solo almost all of them. Vet DLC dungeons, which were the last truly challenging pieces of 4-man content, are getting huge nerfs with the upcoming patch.

Tryxus · July 2017

I wouldn't mind a difficulty increase. I relish the challenge

However, the best way to deal with botters and out of control zone chats would be... Gamemasters or moderators

Megabear · July 2017

This won't fix the issue, but I do like the idea.

Reverb · July 2017

Betheny wrote: »

Nobody liked Craglorn, nobody will like your horrible maps either OP.

That's just not true. Many of us preferred Craglorn before the change.

Chadak · July 2017

I like the idea of a personal difficulty slider, but changing the entire game to be more difficult would appeal only to an increasingly small minority.

G'head. Ask people why they play sometime. I guarantee you'll get virtually nobody telling you that its because they want it to be painful and tedious to perform basic functions, like going form Point A to Point B

MasterSpatula · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

While I can see a point for the easy overworld (grinding and questing), I would like to see a difficulty increase in general considering the power creep (even with the new sustain changes). In short, I agree with you in some sense but more in the sense that the bot problem needs to be properly addressed.

Power creep affects the powerful. The overworld is aimed at new players. Stop trying to turn content aimed at someone else into content aimed at you. It's selfish.

The problem is there is less and less challenging content in the game due to constant nerfs. Vet dungeons are so easy that you can solo almost all of them. Vet DLC dungeons, which were the last truly challenging pieces of 4-man content, are getting huge nerfs with the upcoming patch.

If you're using two solid sets and have the right CP allocation, sure, these things have gotten easy. If you don't, then it's a big difference. You want more stuff aimed at those whose power has "creeped" into godlike status? I support you. But don't think for a minute that everyone is as powerful as you and that newbies (and their content) should be judged by the same standard as you.

ZOS_Bill · July 2017

A few comments have been removed from this thread for baiting and flaming. While you may disagree with someone, there is no need to insult them as that violates the forum rules. Keep your comments civil and constructive going forward.

ThePrinceOfBargains · July 2017

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

A few comments have been removed from this thread for baiting and flaming. While you may disagree with someone, there is no need to insult them as that violates the forum rules. Keep your comments civil and constructive going forward.

Are these thread warnings really necessary? The people violating the rules know they're doing so when you remove the post. I mean seriously, you guys keep making me think you actually said something important and addressed the issue of the topic.

Tyrobag · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The problem is there is less and less challenging content in the game due to constant nerfs. Vet dungeons are so easy that you can solo almost all of them. Vet DLC dungeons, which were the last truly challenging pieces of 4-man content, are getting huge nerfs with the upcoming patch.

That is a grotesque overstatement. The "nerfs" going into the dungeons barely qualify as QoL changes. Stop making Red Mountain out of a fletcherfly nest.

Betheny · July 2017

Reverb wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Nobody liked Craglorn, nobody will like your horrible maps either OP.

That's just not true. Many of us preferred Craglorn before the change.

Hardly "many", more like a handful liked it vs the many who hated it.

MLGProPlayer · July 2017

MasterSpatula wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

humpalicous wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

Overworld can be steamrolled with even bow light attack spam.
You know who else is using light/heavy attacks and spamable attacks like jabs only? Bots.

I recently saw a video of an imperial city exploit and i basicly gasped what i saw. The whole area was basicly build for botting unlike the first months.
Zos shouldn't be surprised if a paraside for bots is populated by bots.

While I can see a point for the easy overworld (grinding and questing), I would like to see a difficulty increase in general considering the power creep (even with the new sustain changes). In short, I agree with you in some sense but more in the sense that the bot problem needs to be properly addressed.

Power creep affects the powerful. The overworld is aimed at new players. Stop trying to turn content aimed at someone else into content aimed at you. It's selfish.

The problem is there is less and less challenging content in the game due to constant nerfs. Vet dungeons are so easy that you can solo almost all of them. Vet DLC dungeons, which were the last truly challenging pieces of 4-man content, are getting huge nerfs with the upcoming patch.

If you're using two solid sets and have the right CP allocation, sure, these things have gotten easy. If you don't, then it's a big difference. You want more stuff aimed at those whose power has "creeped" into godlike status? I support you. But don't think for a minute that everyone is as powerful as you and that newbies (and their content) should be judged by the same standard as you.

But that's what dungeon difficulty settings are for. We have normal mode for a reason.

ADarklore · July 2017

Reverb wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Nobody liked Craglorn, nobody will like your horrible maps either OP.

That's just not true. Many of us preferred Craglorn before the change.

Interesting, ZOS even joked about how only about 12 people accessed it, and they have the statistics. So they know how horrible and rarely used it was before, which is why they made the changes to make it accessible for ALL people and they also stated they would never introduce another 'group only' zone again because of how rarely Craglorn was accessed.