Combat Pets in 3.1.0 Discussion

Transairion · July 2017

As an avid Combat Pet lover, I figured I'd make a topic to discuss all the changes in 3.1.0 thus far...

Combat related changes
Summoned pets from abilities and Item Sets now move 10% faster

Any monster summoned by an Item Set proc now inherits any bonuses you have. The most notable bonuses are damage done and healing done from passive abilities, Major/Minor buffs, or the Champion System.

Shadowrend:
Changed this Item Set’s proc to occur when you take damage instead of when you deal damage.
Increased the proc chance of this Item Set to 15% from 5%.
The Monster summoned by this Item Set’s proc now deals Magic Damage instead of Physical Damage.
Increased the duration of the Minor Maim debuff applied by this Item Set to 10 seconds from 5 seconds.

In an effort to reduce the visual effect noise in group combat situations, we’ve hidden most visual effects from persistent damaging area of effect abilities cast by your allies. Area of effect abilities that have a synergy, healing, or defensive component that can benefit you will still be visible, and area of effect abilities cast by enemies will also still be visible.
Affected player abilities include the following:
- Volatile Familiar Special Ability

Non-combat related changes
Summoned pets will no longer despawn and respawn when attempting to follow you.

Fixed an issue where permanently summoned pets, such as the Unstable Familiar or Wild Guardian, would cause you to unsheathe your weapons every time you zoned into a new area.

Everything seems like an improvement, though I am eager to here about your experiences on the PTS with these changes.

Depending on whether Shadowrend will now proc on damage shields (such as wards) it's either being relegated to tank use as source of Minor Maim (if it only procs on health damage), or buffed to a higher proc rate and a better "damage source" (if it does proc on damage shields). So how I feel about these changes depend on it getting shoehorned into one role or not.

Maw of the Infernal also didn't receive a (direct) damage buff despite being a purely DPS set, nor has Morkuldin (a 9 trait crafted set): should these apply their own debuffs like Shadowrend does? Do more damage? They're still woefully unpopular, I think I've only seen a single other Morkuldin user in the lifetime of ESO and could use buffs.

I am quite confused about this though:

Any monster summoned by an Item Set proc now inherits any bonuses you have. The most notable bonuses are damage done and healing done from passive abilities, Major/Minor buffs, or the Champion System.

Doesn't the CP system already apply to armor sets, IE Maw of the Infernal is boosted by the Mighty CP tree, since the damage tooltip increases as you use the applicable CP options? Major/Minor buffs are self explanatory, as are player passives... what's changed with how CP interacts with them?

Hope to hear your thoughts!

Draqone · July 2017

Transairion wrote: »

Doesn't the CP system already apply to armor sets, IE Maw of the Infernal is boosted by the Mighty CP tree, since the damage tooltip increases as you use the applicable CP options? Major/Minor buffs are self explanatory, as are player passives... what's changed with how CP interacts with them?

Hope to hear your thoughts!

No, the pets do not get your bonuses on live, only the tooltiop changes. Now they will work like you thought they did.

Aedaryl · July 2017

My feedback as a PvP pet sorc :

SORCS PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Now I will explain why :

First problem is pet defense :

When you know the best thing to do for killing a pet sorc is killing their pets, you will lost all fights. Hopefully, most of people don't understand that.

Pets have a 33% less shield than the sorc and they don't have defensive cps, meaning their taking tons of damage. Pets die at the first combo you make on them.

So, you will think I just need to recast them, but in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you play against decent player : cast time is too long, even if you stun your oppenent, he has the time to break, gap close and bash you. Even with streak stunning your opponent while taking distance, other sorcs or any gap closer user can interrupt you.

Protect your pet you will say ? IMPOSSIBLE they take too much damage, even by spamming shield, you can't save your pets.

When you lost pets, you lost 4 slots, including you best damage abillity, and your only heal, you lost necropotence bonus so you have even less damage, and less shield, then you have a curse lasting 6s for nothing.

PETS NEED A FASTER CAST TIME OR BEING UNTARGETABLE AND UNKILLABLE. UNTIL THAT, PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Second problem is pet UI : they dissapear and never reappear, they don't follow you if you streak, and be stuck in monts, ect.

Simple solution is MAKING PET PORT TO YOUR ENNEMY WHEN YOU COMMAND THEM TO ATTACK and PORT TO YOU WHEN YOU ASKING THEM TO BACK TO YOU.

It's simple and effective.

@ZOS_GinaBruno It's very important to fix that if you want to make pets VIABLE, it's actually a real problem.

Tasear · July 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno fine fine reporting bug... Pets can hold taunt in pts. At least twlight and scamp can. While fixing this consider allowing clanfear and warden bear to hold taunt.

Edit

I would check if they still had the added resistances maybe pts missed an update

Tasear · July 2017

It's interesting to think about how the healing pets got boosted Chokethorn and Sentinel of Rkugamz Set. This is a buff (emberadle moss passive 2% healing per green balance slotted along with major mending)to Dragon knight healers with 25% major mending through class shield, templars healers with minor mending passive, Nightblade healers (3% healing per siphon skill slotted), and lastly warden healers . For the sorrecers healers the only think I could think of is expert mage adding more heals from the pets, 20% health recovery (class wise) and maybe minor vitality and indirect bone shield .

Overall the winners, the Dragon Knights and Nightblades. You would think chokethorn , a plant, would benefit the warden more though same could be set about the pet dwemmer for sorcerers. I suggest sorcerer healers have more base spell power if they use these sets or pick a different monster.

Tasear · July 2017

All the potential buffs from the dragon Knight Class lines for pets... if I am reading this right

Dragon Knight

Combustion

Increases the damage of Burning and Poison status effects by 66%

Burning Heart

Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is active.?

* Pets are know to die, so might be useful

Elder Dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 5% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Scaled Armor

Increases Spell Resistance by 3300

Igneous Shield

Major mending 25% increased healing

Ingenous Weapons

Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery and Major Brutality, increasing your Spell Damage and Weapon Damage by 20% for 30 seconds.

Molten Armaments

Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 30 seconds.
Your own damage with fully-charge Heavy Attacks is increased by 40% while active.

Stone Fist

Minor Resolve

Physical Resistance by 1320 for 18 seconds.

Mamga shell
Damage sheild 100% of health

Edit
Standard of Might

Standing within the standard's area increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken

Harden Amour

Release your inner dragon to gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds. You also gain a Damage Shield equal to 15% of your Max Health for 2.5 seconds.
While active, the armor returns [x] Magic Damage to melee attackers.
You also gain a damage shield for a brief period.

Avran_Sylt · July 2017

It seems that sorc summoned pets do not inherit CP bonuses, or at least they dont inherit the Master-at-arms CP bonus.
The Infernal set does though. (Monster spawned Pet)

Gothren · July 2017

Aedaryl wrote: »

My feedback as a PvP pet sorc :

SORCS PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Now I will explain why :

First problem is pet defense :

When you know the best thing to do for killing a pet sorc is killing their pets, you will lost all fights. Hopefully, most of people don't understand that.

Pets have a 33% less shield than the sorc and they don't have defensive cps, meaning their taking tons of damage. Pets die at the first combo you make on them.

So, you will think I just need to recast them, but in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you play against decent player : cast time is too long, even if you stun your oppenent, he has the time to break, gap close and bash you. Even with streak stunning your opponent while taking distance, other sorcs or any gap closer user can interrupt you.

Protect your pet you will say ? IMPOSSIBLE they take too much damage, even by spamming shield, you can't save your pets.

When you lost pets, you lost 4 slots, including you best damage abillity, and your only heal, you lost necropotence bonus so you have even less damage, and less shield, then you have a curse lasting 6s for nothing.

PETS NEED A FASTER CAST TIME OR BEING UNTARGETABLE AND UNKILLABLE. UNTIL THAT, PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Second problem is pet UI : they dissapear and never reappear, they don't follow you if you streak, and be stuck in monts, ect.

Simple solution is MAKING PET PORT TO YOUR ENNEMY WHEN YOU COMMAND THEM TO ATTACK and PORT TO YOU WHEN YOU ASKING THEM TO BACK TO YOU.

It's simple and effective.

@ZOS_GinaBruno It's very important to fix that if you want to make pets VIABLE, it's actually a real problem.

iv had success in just using ball of lightning away immediately when they start attacking pets. I also carry some invisble speed pots if others use that tactic and totally ignore you. my philosphy in open world is to engage on your terms and if not ill just disappear and reset. storm atronach is great for recasting summonings and replensing resources as most stamina builds will just run away until the spell disappears.

GoodFella146 · July 2017

Pets definitely need help right now. The scamp damage nerf was annoying because I don't give a crap in the slightest about trials, but ignoring that the main issues are as follows:

- Pets don't know where to go now. They are CONSTANTLY getting trapped inside of buildings and walls. Then if I'm fighting a player I have to literally stun them, shield spam, hit an immovable, then open the window to manually desummon them while hoping I didn't get killed. It's ridiculous.

- If there is another player around, even at full health, I can't heal the scamp NO EXCEPTIONS. So basically the scamp will always die because I can't heal him, also because now he doesn't regen health (which was a wtf change). It's garbage.

Those two issues are the biggest problems I'm having, though I wish they instead nerfed the goofy pet curse rather than the scamp for all the trial ppl.

Transairion · July 2017

No, the pets do not get your bonuses on live, only the tooltiop changes. Now they will work like you thought they did.

Are you sure? I still need to get an addon to test it directly, but at least Sorc Pets (Scamp/Matriach) seem to benefit from Master at Arms and Elemental Expert. Armor-based summons seem to go up with Mighty.

But if that's true doesn't it mean these Armor-based summons have been BROKEN since CP was introduced??

Morvane · July 2017

Transairion wrote: »

As an avid Combat Pet lover, I figured I'd make a topic to discuss all the changes in 3.1.0 thus far...

Combat related changes
Summoned pets from abilities and Item Sets now move 10% faster

Any monster summoned by an Item Set proc now inherits any bonuses you have. The most notable bonuses are damage done and healing done from passive abilities, Major/Minor buffs, or the Champion System.

Shadowrend:
Changed this Item Set’s proc to occur when you take damage instead of when you deal damage.
Increased the proc chance of this Item Set to 15% from 5%.
The Monster summoned by this Item Set’s proc now deals Magic Damage instead of Physical Damage.
Increased the duration of the Minor Maim debuff applied by this Item Set to 10 seconds from 5 seconds.

In an effort to reduce the visual effect noise in group combat situations, we’ve hidden most visual effects from persistent damaging area of effect abilities cast by your allies. Area of effect abilities that have a synergy, healing, or defensive component that can benefit you will still be visible, and area of effect abilities cast by enemies will also still be visible.
Affected player abilities include the following:
- Volatile Familiar Special Ability

Non-combat related changes
Summoned pets will no longer despawn and respawn when attempting to follow you.

Fixed an issue where permanently summoned pets, such as the Unstable Familiar or Wild Guardian, would cause you to unsheathe your weapons every time you zoned into a new area.

Everything seems like an improvement, though I am eager to here about your experiences on the PTS with these changes.

Depending on whether Shadowrend will now proc on damage shields (such as wards) it's either being relegated to tank use as source of Minor Maim (if it only procs on health damage), or buffed to a higher proc rate and a better "damage source" (if it does proc on damage shields). So how I feel about these changes depend on it getting shoehorned into one role or not.

Maw of the Infernal also didn't receive a (direct) damage buff despite being a purely DPS set, nor has Morkuldin (a 9 trait crafted set): should these apply their own debuffs like Shadowrend does? Do more damage? They're still woefully unpopular, I think I've only seen a single other Morkuldin user in the lifetime of ESO and could use buffs.

I am quite confused about this though:

Any monster summoned by an Item Set proc now inherits any bonuses you have. The most notable bonuses are damage done and healing done from passive abilities, Major/Minor buffs, or the Champion System.

Doesn't the CP system already apply to armor sets, IE Maw of the Infernal is boosted by the Mighty CP tree, since the damage tooltip increases as you use the applicable CP options? Major/Minor buffs are self explanatory, as are player passives... what's changed with how CP interacts with them?

Hope to hear your thoughts!

so, I havent noticed does CP improve familiar or not but seems it was in previous pathes, isnt it? At least sorcs pets take ur max mana and spell critical.

What about my favorite and useless set, Maw the Infernal and Sorcerer:

So crocodile would be buffed from both MAgic and Physical bonuses cause he deal both types of damage:

- altmer/dunmer fire passives
- sorcerer increasement of the physicall damage
- mana from Rebate passive
- 8% bonus health
- 55% increase from Daedric Prey
-

Questionable options:
- we dont know does it take advantages from mana or stamina pool or necropotence. If do that is crazy thing, at least it makes him a bit more compatible to other sets. + in heavy attack build we can see 80-100% uptime of this pet.
- also we dont konw does it take advantage from spell/wep critical as base pets do. If yes that great

More options:
- does Daedroth will be viable in stam builds?

Ragnaroek93 · July 2017

Aedaryl wrote: »

My feedback as a PvP pet sorc :

SORCS PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Now I will explain why :

First problem is pet defense :

When you know the best thing to do for killing a pet sorc is killing their pets, you will lost all fights. Hopefully, most of people don't understand that.

Pets have a 33% less shield than the sorc and they don't have defensive cps, meaning their taking tons of damage. Pets die at the first combo you make on them.

So, you will think I just need to recast them, but in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you play against decent player : cast time is too long, even if you stun your oppenent, he has the time to break, gap close and bash you. Even with streak stunning your opponent while taking distance, other sorcs or any gap closer user can interrupt you.

Protect your pet you will say ? IMPOSSIBLE they take too much damage, even by spamming shield, you can't save your pets.

When you lost pets, you lost 4 slots, including you best damage abillity, and your only heal, you lost necropotence bonus so you have even less damage, and less shield, then you have a curse lasting 6s for nothing.

PETS NEED A FASTER CAST TIME OR BEING UNTARGETABLE AND UNKILLABLE. UNTIL THAT, PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Second problem is pet UI : they dissapear and never reappear, they don't follow you if you streak, and be stuck in monts, ect.

Simple solution is MAKING PET PORT TO YOUR ENNEMY WHEN YOU COMMAND THEM TO ATTACK and PORT TO YOU WHEN YOU ASKING THEM TO BACK TO YOU.

It's simple and effective.

@ZOS_GinaBruno It's very important to fix that if you want to make pets VIABLE, it's actually a real problem.

Just ignore the fact that you steamroll over every medium armor builds at duels with your pet sorc and pretend that it's undpowered

Morgul667 · July 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

My feedback as a PvP pet sorc :

SORCS PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Now I will explain why :

First problem is pet defense :

When you know the best thing to do for killing a pet sorc is killing their pets, you will lost all fights. Hopefully, most of people don't understand that.

Pets have a 33% less shield than the sorc and they don't have defensive cps, meaning their taking tons of damage. Pets die at the first combo you make on them.

So, you will think I just need to recast them, but in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you play against decent player : cast time is too long, even if you stun your oppenent, he has the time to break, gap close and bash you. Even with streak stunning your opponent while taking distance, other sorcs or any gap closer user can interrupt you.

Protect your pet you will say ? IMPOSSIBLE they take too much damage, even by spamming shield, you can't save your pets.

When you lost pets, you lost 4 slots, including you best damage abillity, and your only heal, you lost necropotence bonus so you have even less damage, and less shield, then you have a curse lasting 6s for nothing.

PETS NEED A FASTER CAST TIME OR BEING UNTARGETABLE AND UNKILLABLE. UNTIL THAT, PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Second problem is pet UI : they dissapear and never reappear, they don't follow you if you streak, and be stuck in monts, ect.

Simple solution is MAKING PET PORT TO YOUR ENNEMY WHEN YOU COMMAND THEM TO ATTACK and PORT TO YOU WHEN YOU ASKING THEM TO BACK TO YOU.

It's simple and effective.

@ZOS_GinaBruno It's very important to fix that if you want to make pets VIABLE, it's actually a real problem.

Just ignore the fact that you steamroll over every medium armor builds at duels with your pet sorc and pretend that it's undpowered

Open world is quite different from duel. I dont remember one time I got in danger from a pet sorcerer in PVP recently. All you need is to CC the pet, it cant break from it.

PVE they are quite strong, PVP I wouldnt slot pets anymore.

Aedaryl · July 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

My feedback as a PvP pet sorc :

SORCS PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Now I will explain why :

First problem is pet defense :

When you know the best thing to do for killing a pet sorc is killing their pets, you will lost all fights. Hopefully, most of people don't understand that.

Pets have a 33% less shield than the sorc and they don't have defensive cps, meaning their taking tons of damage. Pets die at the first combo you make on them.

So, you will think I just need to recast them, but in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE if you play against decent player : cast time is too long, even if you stun your oppenent, he has the time to break, gap close and bash you. Even with streak stunning your opponent while taking distance, other sorcs or any gap closer user can interrupt you.

Protect your pet you will say ? IMPOSSIBLE they take too much damage, even by spamming shield, you can't save your pets.

When you lost pets, you lost 4 slots, including you best damage abillity, and your only heal, you lost necropotence bonus so you have even less damage, and less shield, then you have a curse lasting 6s for nothing.

PETS NEED A FASTER CAST TIME OR BEING UNTARGETABLE AND UNKILLABLE. UNTIL THAT, PETS ARE NOT VIABLE.

Second problem is pet UI : they dissapear and never reappear, they don't follow you if you streak, and be stuck in monts, ect.

Simple solution is MAKING PET PORT TO YOUR ENNEMY WHEN YOU COMMAND THEM TO ATTACK and PORT TO YOU WHEN YOU ASKING THEM TO BACK TO YOU.

It's simple and effective.

@ZOS_GinaBruno It's very important to fix that if you want to make pets VIABLE, it's actually a real problem.

Just ignore the fact that you steamroll over every medium armor builds at duels with your pet sorc and pretend that it's undpowered

Pet sorc is strong and not viable at the same time : if you know you need to kill pets and you are able to interrupt, pet sorc is not viable.

But as I said, only few people know that. Pet sorc is easely counterable, hard counterable, and as a pet sorc, you can only die when people know.

It shouldn't happen. Killing the pet being a counter is ok. But you should have a window to recast it, even a short one. Actually, you can only die and cry....

cschwingeb14_ESO · July 2017

As I understand it, sorc pets damage is relative to the caster magicka and crit, so they are indirectly buffed by CP.

But none of the defensive/offensive CP or impen affect them. That should happen. Not that I care, I hate the visuals of sorc matriarch so much I never use them

If item set pets are going to inherit CP, then sorc pets definitely should

Aedaryl · July 2017

In fact, there is 2 kind of "damage" from sorc pets

active skills : familar damage pulse and the heal fAom the matriarch these active are used by the player and affected by CPs.

And pets light attacks from matriarch and scamp + defensive side are not affected by Cps.

Making the matriarch offense affected by cps would make it like old OP scamp. But defensive side should be nice for make them more viable.

Also pets take the critical chance from the caster and their damage (active and passive) scales only with max magicka.