"Pets steal group buffs" solution?

Transairion · July 2017

For a long time combat pets have been the bane of groups, at least those that can be healed and buffed (like Sorc Summons, Warden Bear): even though a change was eventually put through where pets only took heals/buffs if there was no players otherwise in range to receive it, there's still a big misconception they can "steal heals and buffs" from players. And perhaps I have the solution:

Any monster summoned by an Item Set proc now inherits any bonuses you have. The most notable bonuses are damage done and healing done from passive abilities, Major/Minor buffs, or the Champion System.

This got me thinking: what if we extended this to all types of combat pets? What if they can no longer be buffed or debuffed directly (perhaps even healed?), but instead they share the status of their summoner?

If the summoner has a buff, they have that same buff.

If the summoner has a debuff, they also have that debuff.

They already vanish when the summoner dies, and it seems like this system is being tested with the above patch note. Is this a buff or a nerf? I can't speak for PvP (where killing the summoner removes them, and killing them cripples the summoner), but at least in PvE it seems like a buff and makes things consistent: any group buffs will apply to the summoner and then be passed on to the pets. Minor Force, Minor Resolve, Minor Ward all those things. Likewise, if a player is debuffed by Major Fracture, their pets will all have that debuff for the duration as well. Self buffing and cleansing negative effects will empower the combat pets, without any "stolen procs" like SPC.

Combat Pet damage might have to be adjusted to balance out the possibility of "perma-buffed pets" if the summoner has those buffs (IE Scamp suddenly having near constant Minor Force active), but apart from that I'm not sure if there's any major downsides of broken overpowered results of interactions with a change like this. I am pretty bias towards pets though, I love em!

Good change? Bad? Gamebreakingly broken and I should be ashamed for thinking it?

Dymence · July 2017

This is pretty much the best solution available.

dpencil1 · July 2017

You couldn't have player heals be tied to the pets. That would make pets basically invincible and the whole strategy of killing off the pets when fighting a Sorc to even the field and force them to waste time and resources to resummon worthless.

Pets are already the bottom priority in terms of receiving buffs and heals. This solved the problem. People still thought they did steal them for a while after, but the pet Sorc meta helped to educate most of the player base.

At this point I think the combat pets do benefit from CP, Major Sorcery, etc. already.

What they really need is to not be tied only to Magicka. They need to look at Spell Damage too.

Beardimus · July 2017

I think this is trying to fix something for a niche area, trials, and it would break it for other pet users I'm afraid.

DPS for trials was fine before pets got a buff, scamp gets another pulse and everyone loses their mind to run one. I think.its good they have a downside for trials etc.

Transairion · July 2017

You couldn't have player heals be tied to the pets. That would make pets basically invincible and the whole strategy of killing off the pets when fighting a Sorc to even the field and force them to waste time and resources to resummon worthless.

Pets are already the bottom priority in terms of receiving buffs and heals. This solved the problem. People still thought they did steal them for a while after, but the pet Sorc meta helped to educate most of the player base.

Fair point about the healing, so I left that as more of a maybe. I am partial to letting them recieve more buffs though, such as having Bound Armor's buff/s applied to pets as well (Bound armor remains the only part of the Summoning Skill-line thats only affect on the summons is +% magicka to the owner).

At this point I think the combat pets do benefit from CP, Major Sorcery, etc. already.

What they really need is to not be tied only to Magicka. They need to look at Spell Damage too.

I was going to dispute this after testing in game, but evidently the Sorc Summons at least DO have their basic attacks scale with the appropriate CP (which I was under the impression they lacked completely, making me feel very stupid indeed) of Master at Arms and Elemental Expert.

Armor-based combat pets, Morkuldin Maw of Infernal and Shadowrend seemingly scale with Mighty CP tree, but I've seen a post here on PTS forums that they don't actually gain that tooltip boost in combat so... I don't know what to think until I can test that =X

Morgul667 · July 2017

Seems like the natural and easy solution

Septimus_Magna · July 2017

Good suggestion, lets hope ZOS is listening

STEVIL · July 2017

it was only a short time ago that i recall seeing multiple posts that pets only draw in group buffs IF there are no more players... that is to say they snag the surplus buffs but do not steal them from those other pcs.

has this changed recently?

dpencil1 · July 2017

No, but misinformation dies hard.

Tasear · July 2017

I thought @Wrobel said this isn't happening anymore? Though a twlight matirach can heal another twlight matirach if for reason there's two in a group.

Pastas · July 2017

Pet builds don't need more buffs