Does Half magica Half Stamina builds work in this game ?

Zordrage · July 2017

or its an eternal handycap and im forever stuck in playing a Mage or melee fighter and no inbetween ?

made a new char ( got bored of my Sorc and blood mage nightblade )...... Trying something like:

Templar , heavy Armor , 2H Sword ( no staff at all ) , 50/50 stam,Magic.

Would it work at all ? especialy in max level PvP ? or its a HUGE handycap im throwing on myself ?

my favorite chars in MMOS are allways the ones that use Both mixed up and not pigeon holled into one side to be effective....

bassicaly what im trying to do is Play an effective bit tanky melee character with magic....

paulsimonps · July 2017

Damage scale of Max resources as well as weapon/spell power, which means hybrids as they are right now will always underperform.

Zordrage · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Damage scale of Max resources as well as weapon/spell power, which means hybrids as they are right now will always underperform.

Whats the point of all these Skill "freedom" then ? when your pigeon holled into either full stam or full magic ? there is no freedom at all here....

GrumpyDuckling · July 2017

Attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide needs to go. Healing needs to be its own category that isn't governed by spell damage.

Beardimus · July 2017

People say no, but technically most Magika builds in PvP are hybrid..

Not 50/50 maybe 80/20 but most run Stam to help with CC break so arguably Tri stat food, Pots etc is hybrid id say..

But yeah true hybrid is other wise a big comprimise.

Zordrage · July 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide needs to go. Healing needs to be its own category that isn't governed by spell damage.

Also heavy attacks should restor BOTH magica and Stamina NO matter what weapon are you using for heavy attacking....

Stovahkiin · July 2017

I think it is best to go either all stam or mag, but I am currently playing a stamplar who uses dual wield abilities for stam, but also uses a gap closer and healing ability that both use magicka.

For me, using a little mix of stam and mag abilities helps me manage my resources a bit more since I don't have an entire skill bar that uses only one kind of resource. I don't put points into getting extra magicka though since I still mostly use stamina, and therefore need more of it.

Zordrage · July 2017

Stovahkiin wrote: »

I think it is best to go either all stam or mag, but I am currently playing a stamplar who uses dual wield abilities for stam, but also uses a gap closer and healing ability that both use magicka.

For me, using a little mix of stam and mag abilities helps me manage my resources a bit more since I don't have an entire skill bar that uses only one kind of resource. I don't put points into getting extra magicka though since I still mostly use stamina, and therefore need more of it.

not the same when you want to use the attack abilities from both sides.....

want to use Magic ? then here get a staff
Want to be melee ? here have a Melee weapon

Want to be a Dark Knight or Paladin something using Melee weapons and Magic at once to kill your targets ? ha... NO your screwed forever and not allowed to have fun.. without gimping yourself.......

this was the major reason i left the game some time after release..... came back because the World and cyrodil because i enjoy them ALLOT especialy the world design in this game and all the stories....

but after a week this same issue allready slowly driving me away.......

i mean what kind of Logic dictates just because you use a sword that you cant use effectively magic ? lorewise nothing....

Nemesis7884 · July 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide needs to go. Healing needs to be its own category that isn't governed by spell damage.

they could just start introducing diminishing returns again or give hybrids some kind of bonus...

the problem is also that hybrid sets are usually underpowered

another option would be to give more stamina options or give 3 morphs instead of 2 for more stamina diversity

Zordrage · July 2017

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Attribute scaling and weapon/spell damage divide needs to go. Healing needs to be its own category that isn't governed by spell damage.

they could just start introducing diminishing returns again or give hybrids some kind of bonus...

the problem is also that hybrid sets are usually underpowered

another option would be to give more stamina options or give 3 morphs instead of 2 for more stamina diversity

actualy giving allmost all the abilities a Stam/magica Morph could prety much fix all of these issues....

Meh just Unsubbed anyway..... Like this game allot but cant enjoy it when i have no char i enjoy gameplay wise like this....

Hope this will change in the future tough..... will come back in an instant....

The_Smilemeister · July 2017

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

Zordrage · July 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

The_Smilemeister · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

That's what they want you to believe!

Zordrage · July 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

That's what they want you to believe!

i fallen for it twice.......

Stovahkiin · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

That depends on how you want to play. If you want to be a "l33t hardcore" endgame player that has a perfect build, then yeah you can't really play how you're wanting to. But when you just take your time through the lower content and play in the less serious PvP campaign(s) then you can still have fun with hybrid builds as long as you make them right.

You can even do the higher level content and the high level PvP campaigns with the kind of build you have in mind, just don't expect to be up to par with whatever the crowd calls "the meta" at the time.

The_Smilemeister · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

That's what they want you to believe!

i fallen for it twice.......

Diddums.

GrumpyDuckling · July 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

Careful, when you start talking about making health an option while dividing attributes people start throwing insults and saying that putting points into health is "stupid" and/or "not how the game works." Some people are so locked into this stamina/magicka divide that they fail to see that health should be a near-equal option.

Zordrage · July 2017

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

That depends on how you want to play. If you want to be a "l33t hardcore" endgame player that has a perfect build, then yeah you can't really play how you're wanting to. But when you just take your time through the lower content and play in the less serious PvP campaign(s) then you can still have fun with hybrid builds as long as you make them right.

You can even do the higher level content and the high level PvP campaigns with the kind of build you have in mind, just don't expect to be up to par with whatever the crowd calls "the meta" at the time.

i dont want to be Meta... i never want to be Meta in any game just selfsufficient and not a free target with 50% nerfed dmg....
and i dont realy like to hold back others too much like in dungeos etc....

The_Smilemeister · July 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

Careful, when you start talking about making health an option while dividing attributes people start throwing insults and saying that putting points into health is "stupid" and/or "not how the game works." Some people are so locked into this stamina/magicka divide that they fail to see that health should be a near-equal option.

Oh I wasn't talking about making health a viable option. Just poking fun about it being left out in the title.

As for the insults, f**king let them come at me. It'll take more than some triggered keyboard warrior on a war path to bring down the Smilemeister!

MrBetadine · July 2017

Yes, for a tank

Zordrage · July 2017

MrBetadine wrote: »

Yes, for a tank

dont want to be forced into a shield......

Royaji · July 2017

If you wan't to go hybrid you are not supposed to have the same damage output as a pure build. This is called balance.

Pure builds have more damage because they are designed to maximize damage output of one resource. Hybrids have an advantage of being able to use both resources and have access to a more diverse set of skills including self-buffs.

If I spend my whole life training to be good with a sword I should definitely hit harder than a guy who decided to go "jack-of-all-trades" and learn a bit of swordfighting and a bit of magic. But he has access to that magic he learned and I'm only good at hitting guys with a sword. Build choices have consequences.

Hybrids are viable. Especially in PvP. They might not be good in organized PvE groups with dedicated damage and support roles but there is a lot of viable PvP hybrid builds.

Zordrage · July 2017

Royaji wrote: »

If you wan't to go hybrid you are not supposed to have the same damage output as a pure build. This is called balance.

Pure builds have more damage because they are designed to maximize damage output of one resource. Hybrids have an advantage of being able to use both resources and have access to a more diverse set of skills including self-buffs.

If I spend my whole life training to be good with a sword I should definitely hit harder than a guy who decided to go "jack-of-all-trades" and learn a bit of swordfighting and a bit of magic. But he has access to that magic he learned and I'm only good at hitting guys with a sword. Build choices have consequences.

Hybrids are viable. Especially in PvP. They might not be good in organized PvE groups with dedicated damage and support roles but there is a lot of viable PvP hybrid builds.

allot of Defensive abilities are magica.... so going pure DMG also gives you way better defense abilities mainly Absorbs and heals......

its not just dmg.... you prety much globaly nerfing yourself if your not going pure or almost pure into 1 stat...

Funny thing is tough looking Templars abilities and passives it seems like they tried to design it to be a hibrid tough...

Stovahkiin · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

If you wan't to go hybrid you are not supposed to have the same damage output as a pure build. This is called balance.

Pure builds have more damage because they are designed to maximize damage output of one resource. Hybrids have an advantage of being able to use both resources and have access to a more diverse set of skills including self-buffs.

If I spend my whole life training to be good with a sword I should definitely hit harder than a guy who decided to go "jack-of-all-trades" and learn a bit of swordfighting and a bit of magic. But he has access to that magic he learned and I'm only good at hitting guys with a sword. Build choices have consequences.

Hybrids are viable. Especially in PvP. They might not be good in organized PvE groups with dedicated damage and support roles but there is a lot of viable PvP hybrid builds.

allot of Defensive abilities are magica.... so going pure DMG also gives you way better defense abilities mainly Absorbs and heals......

its not just dmg.... you prety much globaly nerfing yourself if your not going pure or almost pure into 1 stat...

Funny thing is tough looking Templars abilities and passives it seems like they tried to design it to be a hibrid tough...

I'm not sure you're completely understanding what people are saying. Hybrid builds are viable, so why does it matter if a lot of defensive abilities are mag based? That's the whole point, you take what you need out of magicka skills, as well as whatever you're planning to use for stam. If you think it thru and make it right then they can work out pretty well.

Royaji · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

If you wan't to go hybrid you are not supposed to have the same damage output as a pure build. This is called balance.

Pure builds have more damage because they are designed to maximize damage output of one resource. Hybrids have an advantage of being able to use both resources and have access to a more diverse set of skills including self-buffs.

If I spend my whole life training to be good with a sword I should definitely hit harder than a guy who decided to go "jack-of-all-trades" and learn a bit of swordfighting and a bit of magic. But he has access to that magic he learned and I'm only good at hitting guys with a sword. Build choices have consequences.

Hybrids are viable. Especially in PvP. They might not be good in organized PvE groups with dedicated damage and support roles but there is a lot of viable PvP hybrid builds.

allot of Defensive abilities are magica.... so going pure DMG also gives you way better defense abilities mainly Absorbs and heals......

its not just dmg.... you prety much globaly nerfing yourself if your not going pure or almost pure into 1 stat...

Funny thing is tough looking Templars abilities and passives it seems like they tried to design it to be a hibrid tough...

The only defensive abilities that scale with max resources are damage shields. All the other defensive buffs are not reliant on your max resource.

Healing is reliant on respective resource because once again, a dedicated magicka healer should have better heals than a half-stam half-magicka paladin. Because the healer is not able to hit stuff with swords.

Hybrids are not weak. They come with trade-offs. You can't have high damage and high defense and use both resources. Because otherwise everyone would just run a hybrid and pure builds will be forgotten.

KochDerDamonen · July 2017

If you split yourself up, you're getting 'all' the utility but half of the damage. Shields, heals, buffs, rolls, blocks, breakfrees. There's not enough utility, or magicka/stamina spells that buff the opposite sort, to make this playstyle anything more than a novelty. If you are absolutely deadset on making such a large use of both Magicka and Stamina, try working with a tank build. Generally tank builds are hybrids by necessity for the tools they need. ^^

Though really, I've never understood the obsession with 'hybrids'. Every class in this game has a bunch of magical-looking spells in their classes, whether you morph them stamina or not they still look like a spell aesthetically. If it's just for the sake of wanting one's cake and eating it too, well...

That being said, a 'novelty' build is still capable of dealing with a majority of the content in the game. Just don't expect to be invited to a veteran trial, or asked to come along on some of the harder dungeons.

Zoliru wrote: »

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

all the diversity and freedom we have here is all Fake.....

@Zoliru @OpponentSmile66 So, let me get this straight.

Do you think you can't do a build with 1/3rd in each because it won't work? If so, false. That's a perfectly fine spread for a tank, you just have to build enchantments around where you need more of each resource.

Or.... do you think you can't build like that because it won't do big DPS? If so... ahaha. Stop it, stop it. The game doesn't have to be balanced around a dps fetish anymore than it already is. Not every build has to be a dps build. If you pick a bunch of arbitrary traits like your invisible attribute points, literally a statistical buff to yourself only, before you pick what your build does, expect to be dissapointed in how your build performs.

Magdalina · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

I think it is best to go either all stam or mag, but I am currently playing a stamplar who uses dual wield abilities for stam, but also uses a gap closer and healing ability that both use magicka.

For me, using a little mix of stam and mag abilities helps me manage my resources a bit more since I don't have an entire skill bar that uses only one kind of resource. I don't put points into getting extra magicka though since I still mostly use stamina, and therefore need more of it.

not the same when you want to use the attack abilities from both sides.....

want to use Magic ? then here get a staff
Want to be melee ? here have a Melee weapon

Want to be a Dark Knight or Paladin something using Melee weapons and Magic at once to kill your targets ? ha... NO your screwed forever and not allowed to have fun.. without gimping yourself.......

this was the major reason i left the game some time after release..... came back because the World and cyrodil because i enjoy them ALLOT especialy the world design in this game and all the stories....

but after a week this same issue allready slowly driving me away.......

i mean what kind of Logic dictates just because you use a sword that you cant use effectively magic ? lorewise nothing....

Actually you can use swords. DW swords due to one of their passives provide a % dmg buff on top of a nice spelldamage increase over a staff. It's argueably a very strong setup for certain PvP and even some PvE(specifically Templar) magicka builds. You'd still be putting all your attributes into magicka and only using magicka abilities though and you'd have to be relying on purely class skills for damage. It's a somewhat interesting setup where you're sacrificing some flexibility and heavy attacks resource restore for a rather noticeable damage/healing boost+an extra set slot. Also cool looks

That aside, hybrids will always underperform. With a lot of gold and effort you could make one viable, possibly even for endgame content(Pelinal's , tri-glyphs on everything, etc), but never optimal(well unless tank which is a whole different story). It's just how the game works, for better or for worse.

Juhasow · July 2017

Zoliru wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Damage scale of Max resources as well as weapon/spell power, which means hybrids as they are right now will always underperform.

Whats the point of all these Skill "freedom" then ? when your pigeon holled into either full stam or full magic ? there is no freedom at all here....

Yes there is freedom. You can play as You want but noone said that every build will be same effective. That's the thing people dont understand.

Didaco · July 2017

Pvp? Absolutely yes. Build them well, and you won't have a regret.

Pve? Meh. They can pull decent numbers but way below the typical value of a full stam/mag spec.

idk · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Damage scale of Max resources as well as weapon/spell power, which means hybrids as they are right now will always underperform.

and crit is divided between weapon and stam though that is less of an issue in PvP where hyrbrids would do better vs PvE.

There are quite a few player that make hybrids work in PvP and solo PvE though there is not a hybrid build that can compete pure builds in PvE. Hybrids get carried in group content.

hamgatan · July 2017

OpponentSmile66 wrote: »

You've forgotten health. What if I want a third of health, a third of stamina and a third of magicka build?

#Diversity

That would be, I'm sorry to say a bad bad choice of attribute distribution.. unless you're planning on substantial gear to buff the health.

The ONLY reason tanks diversify between stats is because they are running two bars, one stamina and one magicka , primarily using Pierce as the stamina taunt and Inner as thr magicka taunt?

Why this method? Because of the nerfs to Permablocking and stamina regeneration a couple of years back. No longer could tanks stack solely on two stats (stam and health) and block their way through Mantikoras slash.

The only solution viable was switching to a dual setup where BOTH resource pools got used as this would even the load and distribution. Back then in order to be viable I ran about 14 in health, 30 in stam and 20 in mag. With Armor Master/Footman's I was doing 39k resists with a ton of mitigation slapped in CP trees and cost reduction. It worked.

Even to this day I still run my setups like that. But the Vvardenfell changes have meant we need to tighten our belt even more with resource management.. and with the axe to cost reduction as well it's no longer viable to manage two resources, and you're focused on optimising one only to keep your sustain going.

Right now I'm 54 health, 10 in mag and using Balance for my resource management. I'm tanking better than ever before, so no 21, 21, 22 is not ideal for high level endgame tanking at all and It hasn't been ideal for a long time either..