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Enough With the Nightblade Nonsense
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max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »This is all personal conjecture coupled with feelings and raw emotion . Some people can 1 v X on Sorc , some on DK and some on Templar . Everyone thinks they know class balance best because of some personal experience . Try going to the areas the best people play and fight against them . I can gank an unprepared and inexperienced player any day but players you see that know their builds and post info all the time are hardly ever going to fall for it on any class .
In trials and dungeons nightblade has to work hard to keep up with Sorc DPS . It can kept close but it is a lot of work . Most Nightblades are one trick ponies in PVP because the class demands a lot running and repositioning to survive . Diverse builds require endless grinding from PVE that not a lot of people want to do . The class is in no way OP but some gear sets are . But those give all classes a op feeling sometimes not just NB .
I think the average buff nightblade thread comes from players that are average and don't have access to the proper gear and the rest come from knowledgeable players that want old bugged abilities to work properly or some old nerfs that are outdated for the class reverted . Nightblade players on the forums have proven to be some of the most knowledgeable and the least whiney of all players . You should turn on some music and do some Jazzercise for an hour before making these threads and shake off all the pent up emotions
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTpg7-7of-Y
Qft. But that song may be too "active" try something more chill lol
https://youtu.be/qqgz-G5OqXM #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »This is all personal conjecture coupled with feelings and raw emotion . Some people can 1 v X on Sorc , some on DK and some on Templar . Everyone thinks they know class balance best because of some personal experience . Try going to the areas the best people play and fight against them . I can gank an unprepared and inexperienced player any day but players you see that know their builds and post info all the time are hardly ever going to fall for it on any class .
In trials and dungeons nightblade has to work hard to keep up with Sorc DPS . It can kept close but it is a lot of work . Most Nightblades are one trick ponies in PVP because the class demands a lot running and repositioning to survive . Diverse builds require endless grinding from PVE that not a lot of people want to do . The class is in no way OP but some gear sets are . But those give all classes a op feeling sometimes not just NB .
I think the average buff nightblade thread comes from players that are average and don't have access to the proper gear and the rest come from knowledgeable players that want old bugged abilities to work properly or some old nerfs that are outdated for the class reverted . Nightblade players on the forums have proven to be some of the most knowledgeable and the least whiney of all players . You should turn on some music and do some Jazzercise for an hour before making these threads and shake off all the pent up emotionshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTpg7-7of-Y
Qft. But that song may be too "active" try something more chill lolhttps://youtu.be/qqgz-G5OqXM
Or that with some scented non paraffin candles in a warm tub with the bathbeeds 2 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam nb's and Mag nb's are viable in pvp, If they have procs that is. In group play they are horrible compared to what all the other magicka classes can do, a stam nb is basically invisible in terms of helping out. You kill a couple of people but die instantly if the zerg outnumbers your group but since they are magicka sorcs, templars, dk's, and even mag nb's that can be tanky, and spam instant breath's of life and shields they are viable in group play. A stam nb just lays on the ground with *** vigor. Even the stam dk, sorc, and templar stand more of a chance in group play because they get resistances or mobilty.
That's one thing too, not unless you gimp yourself damage wise the stam nb has mediocre mobility. You will be roll dodging and spamming cloak just to get away a few feet meanwhile a mag sorc spams streak three times and they already gained a distance far greater than *** cloak ever will. Also you can stun people as a mag sorc. A mag nb has more mobility because they obviously can spam cloak way more.
Who ever the guy is who made this thread is obviously bias against stam nb's but the sad part is that what he is complaining are procs which are not even a stam nb innate problem just as destro ults are not an innate problem for magicka. Skills such as cloak spam, breath of life spam, shield spam, root spamers however is an innate problem and they are all MAGICKA.4 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭a stam nb is basically invisible in terms of helping out.
Whenever I get grouped in PvP on my StamNB, I feel absolutely awful. Knowing full well, I have to play a selfish turdsandwich and hide if I even want to help out.
By help out I mean cloaking away from my comrades dead bodies and putting up a forward camp. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on July 14, 2017 9:12PM2 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also stam nb got a 600k score because vma first of all we all know is very burst oriented and that is the only thing stam nb excels that. It still doesn't mean just because it got a 600k score on a solo PVE dungeon that the stam nb is viable in other areas such as group play or trials where constant defense and pressure dps is needed.
Do you even play a stam nb? have you ever tried playing without procs? You will be very disappointed at how much skill it requires to play it because you do not have any strong heals apart from rally, which it's not something you can spam one after another the next millisecond like LOL magicka players can with their innate skills and vigor is not an instant 10k heal either, combine that with no procs and there you go, you got yourself a gimped stam nb that all it can do is roll dodge and hope for the best that your enemy has no buffs and your incap crits. Unless you are running one of those high crit stam nb's with camo hunter on the front bar there is just no other way to build a competitive high pressure damage stam nb for pvp.Edited by Kalante on July 14, 2017 8:12PM3 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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Except there are plenty magicka nbs filling trial leaderboards...
Play group content. If you did and still don't admit that NBs aren't great there, then you either have no idea how groups work/optimized or are outright lying.
Play a NB, you troll, then come back and repeat that they aren't weak again.
@Artis My first Flawless Conqueror was a Nightblade on PC-NA. While my first Stormproof on PS4-NA was a Nightblade. It was also the second class I got a Flawless Conqueror with on PS4-NA. My first being a Sorc. Whenever I want easy AP...? I play 1 of my GankBlades. Beyond easy to kill people. In a 1v1 or multiple people (Bomb-Blade) way.
Now here's the kicker: My MagSorc is my main character. M'kay? Or main I should say for PvE-based things and crafting. My MagDK is my PvP-based main. Yet! I can kill dramatically easier on either my MagBlade or StamBlade, than my MagDK. I can also clear VMA way easier on my Nightblades, than I can my Sorc.
Ok, are you serious right now? Magicka nightblabes pack the strongest burst in the game, period. You need some more practice buddy.Regarding PvP, again, no one was complaining about stamblades not being able to oneshot in PvP. Yes, if they have proc sets they will oneshot. That's true for every class specced to stamina, not just a NB. It's procs and OP stamina skills that kill people. Magicka builds can oneshot people, too, sometimes. But not magicka NB.
1. The leaderboard is not packed yet, so it doesn't matter what it has. People might be playing their NBs because finally they aren't as bad as before. But they are still bad compared to other classes. What counts is what classes there are when the board is dense.
2. No, you are wrong. Also, if practicing more will mean that I will get oneshotted by mNB that would counter-productive, why would I do that? Maybe you need more practice? Because it's any other class that can kill me in seconds with ALL DEFENSES UP but not a magicka NB. So I have no idea what you are talking about. There's absolutely nothing they can that can compare to what others can do.1 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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Play a NB, you troll, then come back and repeat that they aren't weak again.
Artis My first Flawless Conqueror was a Nightblade on PC-NA. While my first Stormproof on PS4-NA was a Nightblade. It was also the second class I got a Flawless Conqueror with on PS4-NA. My first being a Sorc. Whenever I want easy AP...? I play 1 of my GankBlades. Beyond easy to kill people. In a 1v1 or multiple people (Bomb-Blade) way.
Now here's the kicker: My MagSorc is my main character. M'kay? Or main I should say for PvE-based things and crafting. My MagDK is my PvP-based main. Yet! I can kill dramatically easier on either my MagBlade or StamBlade, than my MagDK. I can also clear VMA way easier on my Nightblades, than I can my Sorc.
Nightblades are good for salt mining scrubs in PVP. Their kit is also good for MSA. However that doesn't automatically mean they're also good in endgame group content or dueling. You know the two areas most complaints focus on.
Quick question, how are they not good for dueling? MagBlade or StamBlades. Especially being that there is no 1 to intervene. If anything, I would say Nightblades excel the most in duels from a PvP perspective.
Edit: Autocorrect trolled me. Q_Q
Ooooh I remember him now. It's the guy who ignores comments when you call him out on saying crap, being wrong or lying, and he replies selectively and pretends other comments aren't there.4 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Then its obvious you don't know about dueling.Stam blade is the worst class for dueling unless they are running cheesy setups and most tournaments ban cheesy step ups to keep things fair. Even then a Axe bleed build is really strong on a stamblade on my Stamdk its a monster setup.You lay so many Dots on a magplar they can't keep purge up enough to remove all of the dots.If they do they run out of magic to heal and its GG.
Play a NB, you troll, then come back and repeat that they aren't weak again.
Artis My first Flawless Conqueror was a Nightblade on PC-NA. While my first Stormproof on PS4-NA was a Nightblade. It was also the second class I got a Flawless Conqueror with on PS4-NA. My first being a Sorc. Whenever I want easy AP...? I play 1 of my GankBlades. Beyond easy to kill people. In a 1v1 or multiple people (Bomb-Blade) way.
Now here's the kicker: My MagSorc is my main character. M'kay? Or main I should say for PvE-based things and crafting. My MagDK is my PvP-based main. Yet! I can kill dramatically easier on either my MagBlade or StamBlade, than my MagDK. I can also clear VMA way easier on my Nightblades, than I can my Sorc.
Nightblades are good for salt mining scrubs in PVP. Their kit is also good for MSA. However that doesn't automatically mean they're also good in endgame group content or dueling. You know the two areas most complaints focus on.
Quick question, how are they not good for dueling? MagBlade or StamBlades. Especially being that there is no 1 to intervene. If anything, I would say Nightblades excel the most in duels from a PvP perspective.
Edit: Autocorrect trolled me. Q_Q
Magdk and Magsorc still the top dueling classes.Cloak is so easy to counter if you know what you are doing cloak is a waste against a good players at time.Magblade middle tier and one of the few spots they are decent at in this game.2 -
DrkHunter86✭✭✭I'm so damn tired of reading people complaining and whining about Nightblades. Nightblades are so weak this. Nightblades have trash DPS that. Nightblades too squishy to excel at doing this. My Nightblade can't kill that.
Ugh! Enough!
If Nightblades are so damn weak, then why is it that Nightblades were the first class to hit a 600k score in VMA? Why is it that the whole: Viper, Selene, etc. proc nonsense spiraled out of control from ProcBlades? Why do I always see more Nightblades in Cyrodiil and asking to duel people, than any other class? Why is it that VMA is dramatically more easier with a Nightblade than any other class? Why does a Nightblade have access to: High mobility with NO penalty, an execute, the ability to go in and out of stealth at will causing crap to miss, the highest burst damage whether magicka or stamina, etc. if they are so bad? Why are people STILL as of July 2017 still recommending to new players to make Nightblades, if they are such a weak and trashy class? Why can I sustain dramatically better on a Nightblade, than I can on a Sorc or DK? And heal better? Why are Nightblades able to have access to pets, when they already have numerous tools to deal with things? Meanwhile DK's and Templars don't even have mobility and or an execute. Yet Nightblades have them in spades? Why doesn't any other class have any berserk buffs? Why are Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild DLC's pretty much aimed at strictly Nightblades, because of their stealth benefits?
Right. Because at the end of the day, Nightblades are not in that bad of a shape as the forums like to parrot and whine about that they are in. Be it PvE or PvP. What it is, is that there are more Nightblades than anyone else. And because it is the assassin/rogue class, it gains it's popularity. Thus attracting more people to it. And because it is such a favorite, you want it constantly buffed and buffed until the point it gets completely out of hand.
In other words... You Nightblade whiners are literally the D.VA and Genji players, if this were Overwatch. You whine all day on the forums about how weak you are, and how certain things are so op until they get killed off entirely like Roadhog. Or in this case, Dragonknights or Sorcs. You will not be satisfied until those 2 classes are dead. Completely null and void of any type of fields of success. And I hate it. I don't dislike it. I hate it. And I'm thoroughly disgusted by the bs. It's been going on for months, and the devs have been back after back entertaining that crap for far too long. You want to whine and complain about something? Whine and complain about why it is that Wardens are a brand new class, and how all three tantrum after tantrum until the devs made them trash damage dealers. And sub-optimal healers to Templars. Whine about that. /EndRant /Logoff
You had me until heal better lol, better than a templar or even warden lol. Smh2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Triggered !
Will slot poison and vipers the rest of the day .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_mej5wS7viw
Holy smack Roh, upvotes for Prodigy!
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »Triggered !
Will slot poison and vipers the rest of the day .https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_mej5wS7viw
Holy smack Roh, upvotes for Prodigy!
Better Prodigy lol
https://youtu.be/rmHDhAohJlQ
Is it odd that I can see the Devs singing this song? 0 -
Shardan4968✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember some time ago a day in Cyrodiil when during siege, two nightblades almost killed our whole zerg. I was checking area when I saw corpse of my m8. I started resurecting him when two nbs came from nowhere and killed me. I wrote on chat that we have enemies behind. So other guy came to rez me and he of course died. It happend many times and caused our siege fail. The same day, our zerg was at the mine. There were 7 guys vs 1 magsorc who was spreading traps and making himself invisible. We were chasing him like bunch of brainless idiots and he always had enough stamina to break free and propably magicka to heal himself and be invisible. We were fighting with him for 5 minutes and I was ressurecting my mates half of this time when he was killing us one by one. Small amount of nightblades are perfect for zergs and who other can kill you by one shot? So go kill whole zerg by your mighty and immortal magsorc.PC/EU1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP's ignorance is astonishing. I couldn't make it past the 3rd line he wrote. I thought he might actually bring up some good points, and was ready to go ahead and read the wall of shít he smeared all over the forums, but after reading some of his replies I don't really need to. Not even the biggest "l2p" can save him from the hole he's in.
"Nightblades are beginner friendly" lmfao I won't even go into how wrong that is. Have fun OP, I'm sure the nightblade that annihilated and humiliated you had plenty of it.5 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblades are strong at burst but not sustained damage, if you played one especially in both pve and pvp you would know that.
VMA point is mute because it wasn't a NB that did it first and further more the bosses are fairly quick to burst down provided you know the mechanics well and have ran the place an absurd amount of times.
They're weak because they are a spam class, their ults either require them to be withing melee range or close in fact 1/2 of the assassin skill line requires that. Their healing is actually weak (for magblades at least in pve) and their damage is lack luster compared too the almighty sorc (dont even get my started on that). Not sure if its still the case but rotations on magblades and stamblades are often the hardest rotations as well and even well mess up can lose you a ton of damage in the process.
Until they do something about sorc (which I hope they do) I will NEVER take my magblade into pve, it just feels utterly pointless. As for NB's in pvp I see mostly stamblades not magblades (appreciate the distinction) and further more I actually see more sorcs and templars in pvp than nightblades generally.
as for sustaining longer, sure nightblades can sustain for quite some time with the right set ups but there is so much ranged burst on the field that most stamblades get utterly destroyed by sorcs as for magblades our only real option is to go bombblade or some wierd hybrid right now, sure we could go single target and run elgeant or some rediculous crap we come up with but we dont have much and hell even bombblade is kinda lack luster now with all the mitigation around from templars and wardens. Remember PvP is all about burst now.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Any class can be OP in the hands of someone who knows how to play it.
That said, #NERFSORCS! lmao1 -
Balsagna✭✭✭✭Bonzodog01 wrote: »We need to clarify things a bit - magblades are EASY mode gank and spank players. Press a couple buttons, he's dead. No real thought required.
However, try to do the same on a Stamblade, and its a VERY different experience. There, one slip and you are DEAD. That one slip gives the enemy a chance to respond, and thats all they need.
Stamblades are amazingly squishy - I run mine with Dubious Camoran throne - and I still only have 13K health.
In PvE, a Magblade can faceroll the content. They don't even need to stealth or anything.
Uh....not so with a stamblade. Stamblades HAVE to run from stealth, those crits can make or break a multi-mob fight.
So, Magblades = No Skill
Stamblades = for the most experienced and determined to learn players only. Lots of skill required.
I think you're high.2 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah OP you have no idea what you are talking about. At least READ those threads you are whining about?
No one is saying stamblades are weak. Yes, they oneshot. Well, it's not them, it's the procsets that oneshot. Every class specializing in stamina and wearing those sets can oneshot.
On the other hand, magicka nightblades - not so much. I got oneshotted by every class in a BG except for magicka NB. They just don't have the tools for that. And bringing up bombs and procs is not helping your case. Not everyone wants to gank, most players actually don't.
Now moving to PvE - NB is still in a bad spot. Once again, there is no reason to pick a NB if you can pick another DPS. They have no considerable group synergy. All the have is DPS, which is not the greatest. And to make up for the lack of synergy their DPS would need to be much higher than what other classes have.
Oh, and about maelstrom? VMA is absolutely irrelevant here, since it's solo content. It doesn't matter which class gets what score there - they only compete within the same class. Yes, NB have access to minor berserk that other classes don't have and have a little bit of self healing while attacking which is just enough for vMA. However, in group content minor berserk and heals are provided by healers anyway. And in PvP those hots won't save you from the burst damage.
Top raid groups are running multiple stam toons (2 in recent Hodor runs, pretty sure MC is running 4). Nightblades give the group Minor Savagery. So, NBs do actually provide some group utility. And magblades have off heals via their spammable, which is really useful especially up top in HoF.
Magblades have excellent DPS (no problem hitting 40k self-buffed on the skeleton with no cheese and inferno wall), and stamblades have the best single-target DPS in the game (I've seen 48k solo on the skeleton).
And it is and always has been useful to have Minor Berserk 100% of the time because there are plenty of PvE fights that aren't pure stack and burn so you aren't standing in Combat Prayer the whole fight.2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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@Ch4mpTW This post is ridiculous. You're over-exaggerating things in every single sentence of your post. And you straight up make some things up (the first class to get 600k in vMA was Stam Sorc, Streak One, look it up). Not even going to bother telling you what's wrong with the rest of your post, because it will be a waste of time.Edited by Izaki on July 15, 2017 12:36AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade5 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭...Edited by Izaki on July 15, 2017 12:38AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
wildbear247✭✭✭Why do people gank crafters and other defenseless people that post NO CHALLENGE and require NO SKILL just going about their day doing what THEY find fun? Not because they're skilled or enjoy skilled paly. Why do people camp quest givers? Why do people spam duel invites to tank builds or people obviously not set up to PVP? Why do people go out of their way to find ANY way they can to grief?
Because lots of people just suck, and in 10 years of MMO's I have found that 90% of these people are PVP players. Objective and honest, take it with a grain of salt.
@Phinix1
LOL...let the salt flow!
First normally I really like your reasoned and articulate posts on these forums (and your Master Recipe add-on is awesome!). But here with your harsh critique of PvP'rs you come off as someone that's been crushed in PvP environments in the past and now is irrationally bitter about PvP in general.
As far as skillful gameplay, until AI becomes self-aware, engaging a human opponent will always be more dynamic and challenging than the robotic battles that occur in PvE environments. It's one of the reasons that PvP has become my end-game playground...in the long run, repetitive PvE battle just don't engage the brain cells as much as frenetic and fast-paced PvP battles do.
Ultimately I appreciate both modes of play and see how both are a vital part of ESO...those who can't have lost objectivity along the way and need to regain their balance...return to the light friend
Edited by wildbear247 on July 15, 2017 12:56AMPC NA
The Ironwood Clan (all DC): Karbal Ironwood (Stamblade, PvP); Galtan Ironwood (Magblade, crafter, PvE, some PvP)
MY #1 ESO REQUEST: An overhauled way in which ZOS gathers, assesses, responds to, and incorporates player feedback on the current and future state of the game.0 -
Bonzodog01✭✭✭✭✭Do you even play a stam nb? have you ever tried playing without procs? You will be very disappointed at how much skill it requires to play it because you do not have any strong heals apart from rally, which it's not something you can spam one after another the next millisecond like LOL magicka players can with their innate skills and vigor is not an instant 10k heal either, combine that with no procs and there you go, you got yourself a gimped stam nb that all it can do is roll dodge and hope for the best that your enemy has no buffs and your incap crits. Unless you are running one of those high crit stam nb's with camo hunter on the front bar there is just no other way to build a competitive high pressure damage stam nb for pvp.
THIS ^^^^
I play a non proc Stam NB, high crit build. Staying alive, even in PvE, is a challenge.
I will add that Leeching Strikes got a decent buff sometime recently and its being sorely overlooked as the goto heal for a stam NB. I now use it, and can restore to full health in 3 or 4 LA's. However, time this wrong, and you will die.
My build is Khajiit with 5 Hundings/4 NMG/3 Agility.
She runs two precise daggers on the DW bar, and has 71% crit, 2920 Weapon Damage, 33K stamina.
I actually had to go all divines on the armor, and then used the max stamina mundus to give her that extra stam.
I do indeed slot camo hunter on both bars, and use another much overlooked DW skill called Shrouded daggers which behaves like an AoE (aim at one mob, daggers bounce to a max of further two mobs.)
And like you said, get into a sustained boss fight, and it becomes a huge struggle to stay alive and keep critting the boss. Anything from a Public Dungeon boss upwards is a challenge.Edited by Bonzodog01 on July 15, 2017 1:19AMXbox One - EU - EP/DCTrying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 20151 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bonzodog01 wrote: »Do you even play a stam nb? have you ever tried playing without procs? You will be very disappointed at how much skill it requires to play it because you do not have any strong heals apart from rally, which it's not something you can spam one after another the next millisecond like LOL magicka players can with their innate skills and vigor is not an instant 10k heal either, combine that with no procs and there you go, you got yourself a gimped stam nb that all it can do is roll dodge and hope for the best that your enemy has no buffs and your incap crits. Unless you are running one of those high crit stam nb's with camo hunter on the front bar there is just no other way to build a competitive high pressure damage stam nb for pvp.
THIS ^^^^
I play a non proc Stam NB, high crit build. Staying alive, even in PvE, is a challenge.
I will add that Leeching Strikes got a decent buff sometime recently and its being sorely overlooked as the goto heal for a stam NB. I now use it, and can restore to full health in 3 or 4 LA's. However, time this wrong, and you will die.
My build is Khajiit with 5 Hundings/4 NMG/3 Agility.
She runs two precise daggers on the DW bar, and has 71% crit, 2920 Weapon Damage, 33K stamina.
I actually had to go all divines on the armor, and then used the max stamina mundus to give her that extra stam.
I do indeed slot camo hunter on both bars, and use another much overlooked DW skill called Shrouded daggers which behaves like an AoE (aim at one mob, daggers bounce to a max of further two mobs.)
And like you said, get into a sustained boss fight, and it becomes a huge struggle to stay alive and keep critting the boss. Anything from a Public Dungeon boss upwards is a challenge.
It's not a struggle to stay alive on a stam NB in any content, honestly.
With Mirage + Shadow Barrier you're hitting 19-20k resistance in medium armor, with Major Evasion, and Deadly Cloak for 25% AoE mitigation.
Don't feel squishy at all, even in vHoF.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »@Strider_Roshin Could tell you a couple of things StamNB is lacking. They lack quite a few things compared to other classes in PvE and are not nearly as desirable in group play.
StamNB gets the most mileage out of those proc sets we can agree on that. However I guarantee you they have quite the learning curve when it comes to PvP, and not using those proc sets. Me personally, I've been there, done that even in PC patch 1.5! Was horrid honestly.
I do believe StamNB and MagNB need their soap boxes to debate and discuss the problems the class has. Because they are numerous and we need to make these play styles better in all aspects of play.
Nightblades have a lot of strengths to them. We don't need to equip a means of major defense buffs due to Shadow Barrier, we have a great (although expensive) gap closer, a means of minor Berserk, and great spammables.
Now that I've listed their strengths, I'm going to discuss their negatives. Other than their major defense buffs via Shadow Barrier they have no reliable defense. You could say cloak is a great defense; which is true when it works, but overall it's pretty undependable. For instance if the majority of the abilities in the game ignored damage shields would you still consider shields to be a strong defense? Of course not. You could also argue that the minor protection you gain from Dark Cloak helps with mitigation; which would've been a valid argument if the duration wasn't pathetically small.
Nightblades also horribly lack group utility. Now magblades do offer off-healing but since the heal is small, and it only affects one additional person; it's really not worth mentioning. You could argue that Sap Essence is a solid heal, but a magblade wouldn't use this in any serious DPS role, and why use a magBlade healer when both Templars and wardens are far superior, and offer more group support. Now Nightblades do have strong ST damage in PvE but so do Sorcs, except they can achieve strong DPS from a distance as well, and with better Survivability.
Okay I could've been a lot more extensive with both of those sections, but I'm trying to avoid writing a book.
So I'm going to do a quick synopsis of their performance in both PvP and PvE.
PvP:
Stamblades are great noob slayers, but are easy AP for any experienced PvPer.
Magblades are annoying to fight, and great kiters, but are easily shut down by Templars, DKs, and Now Wardens since their main spammable can be reflected.
Nightblades in general are great at 1vX noob slaying, and have an amazing CC (without that CC that class would probably be dead in PvP).
PvE:
Nightblades are great damage dealers, but...
Magblades are outshined by sorcs in every way.
Stamblades outshine sorcs in melee range, but are out-DPS'd by sorcs at range, and have worse survivability.
And as a whole Nightblades probably have the most difficult rotation since it requires nothing short of perfection.
TL:DR Nightblades are essentially a worse version of a sorc.
My suggestions:
Increasing their survivability is easy. For one double the duration of Minor protection from Dark Cloak, Allow Consuming Darkness (and its morphs) to follow your character, and allow the heal from Siphoning Strikes and its morphs to scale from their respective attributes. Also increase the heal from Strife and its morphs.
Increasing group utility is also easy. Rather than Nightblades passively providing their group minor Savagery, make it Major. This with free up a slot from everyone's bar, and save on potions. Increase the number of group members healed from Funnel Health to 3, and have Power Extraction inflict enemies with Minor Vulnerability. On top of this make Death Stroke, and its morphs cause Major Vulnerability instead of a personal damage buff.
Also make Strife non-reflectable.
As far as how difficult it is to play a Nightblade goes. Magblades are cake in PvE, but difficult in PvP. Stamblades are very tough to be successful with in PvE, but it's pretty easy to be a procblade/gankblade; remove cloak, and proc sets and it's hard mode.
The NB rotation, on both stam and magicka variants, is dead simple. What's difficult?
Magblade: Blockade, swap, Twisting, Cripple, Shock Clench, swap, Assassin's Will, Funnel x 3, Blockade, Assassin's Will, swap. Every other, reapply buffs and do just 1 funnel. Drop Meteor/Destro/Soul Harvest when ready. 40k DPS, dead simple.
Stamblade: Trap, Hail, Caltrops, Poison Injection, swap, Incap, Assassin's Will, Rending Slashes, Surprise Attack x 3, Assassin's Will, Deadly Cloak, swap. Sprinkle in heavy attacks when needed. 43k+ DPS, dead simple.
Nightblades are not a worse version of a sorc. Did you forget to download the Morrowind patch? That's Homestead-era stuff.Edited by LiquidPony on July 15, 2017 4:21AM2 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Bonzodog01 wrote: »Do you even play a stam nb? have you ever tried playing without procs? You will be very disappointed at how much skill it requires to play it because you do not have any strong heals apart from rally, which it's not something you can spam one after another the next millisecond like LOL magicka players can with their innate skills and vigor is not an instant 10k heal either, combine that with no procs and there you go, you got yourself a gimped stam nb that all it can do is roll dodge and hope for the best that your enemy has no buffs and your incap crits. Unless you are running one of those high crit stam nb's with camo hunter on the front bar there is just no other way to build a competitive high pressure damage stam nb for pvp.
THIS ^^^^
I play a non proc Stam NB, high crit build. Staying alive, even in PvE, is a challenge.
I will add that Leeching Strikes got a decent buff sometime recently and its being sorely overlooked as the goto heal for a stam NB. I now use it, and can restore to full health in 3 or 4 LA's. However, time this wrong, and you will die.
My build is Khajiit with 5 Hundings/4 NMG/3 Agility.
She runs two precise daggers on the DW bar, and has 71% crit, 2920 Weapon Damage, 33K stamina.
I actually had to go all divines on the armor, and then used the max stamina mundus to give her that extra stam.
I do indeed slot camo hunter on both bars, and use another much overlooked DW skill called Shrouded daggers which behaves like an AoE (aim at one mob, daggers bounce to a max of further two mobs.)
And like you said, get into a sustained boss fight, and it becomes a huge struggle to stay alive and keep critting the boss. Anything from a Public Dungeon boss upwards is a challenge.
It's not a struggle to stay alive on a stam NB in any content, honestly.
With Mirage + Shadow Barrier you're hitting 19-20k resistance in medium armor, with Major Evasion, and Deadly Cloak for 25% AoE mitigation.
Don't feel squishy at all, even in vHoF.Strider_Roshin wrote: »Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »@Strider_Roshin Could tell you a couple of things StamNB is lacking. They lack quite a few things compared to other classes in PvE and are not nearly as desirable in group play.
StamNB gets the most mileage out of those proc sets we can agree on that. However I guarantee you they have quite the learning curve when it comes to PvP, and not using those proc sets. Me personally, I've been there, done that even in PC patch 1.5! Was horrid honestly.
I do believe StamNB and MagNB need their soap boxes to debate and discuss the problems the class has. Because they are numerous and we need to make these play styles better in all aspects of play.
Nightblades have a lot of strengths to them. We don't need to equip a means of major defense buffs due to Shadow Barrier, we have a great (although expensive) gap closer, a means of minor Berserk, and great spammables.
Now that I've listed their strengths, I'm going to discuss their negatives. Other than their major defense buffs via Shadow Barrier they have no reliable defense. You could say cloak is a great defense; which is true when it works, but overall it's pretty undependable. For instance if the majority of the abilities in the game ignored damage shields would you still consider shields to be a strong defense? Of course not. You could also argue that the minor protection you gain from Dark Cloak helps with mitigation; which would've been a valid argument if the duration wasn't pathetically small.
Nightblades also horribly lack group utility. Now magblades do offer off-healing but since the heal is small, and it only affects one additional person; it's really not worth mentioning. You could argue that Sap Essence is a solid heal, but a magblade wouldn't use this in any serious DPS role, and why use a magBlade healer when both Templars and wardens are far superior, and offer more group support. Now Nightblades do have strong ST damage in PvE but so do Sorcs, except they can achieve strong DPS from a distance as well, and with better Survivability.
Okay I could've been a lot more extensive with both of those sections, but I'm trying to avoid writing a book.
So I'm going to do a quick synopsis of their performance in both PvP and PvE.
PvP:
Stamblades are great noob slayers, but are easy AP for any experienced PvPer.
Magblades are annoying to fight, and great kiters, but are easily shut down by Templars, DKs, and Now Wardens since their main spammable can be reflected.
Nightblades in general are great at 1vX noob slaying, and have an amazing CC (without that CC that class would probably be dead in PvP).
PvE:
Nightblades are great damage dealers, but...
Magblades are outshined by sorcs in every way.
Stamblades outshine sorcs in melee range, but are out-DPS'd by sorcs at range, and have worse survivability.
And as a whole Nightblades probably have the most difficult rotation since it requires nothing short of perfection.
TL:DR Nightblades are essentially a worse version of a sorc.
My suggestions:
Increasing their survivability is easy. For one double the duration of Minor protection from Dark Cloak, Allow Consuming Darkness (and its morphs) to follow your character, and allow the heal from Siphoning Strikes and its morphs to scale from their respective attributes. Also increase the heal from Strife and its morphs.
Increasing group utility is also easy. Rather than Nightblades passively providing their group minor Savagery, make it Major. This with free up a slot from everyone's bar, and save on potions. Increase the number of group members healed from Funnel Health to 3, and have Power Extraction inflict enemies with Minor Vulnerability. On top of this make Death Stroke, and its morphs cause Major Vulnerability instead of a personal damage buff.
Also make Strife non-reflectable.
As far as how difficult it is to play a Nightblade goes. Magblades are cake in PvE, but difficult in PvP. Stamblades are very tough to be successful with in PvE, but it's pretty easy to be a procblade/gankblade; remove cloak, and proc sets and it's hard mode.
The NB rotation, on both stam and magicka variants, is dead simple. What's difficult?
Magblade: Blockade, swap, Twisting, Cripple, Shock Clench, swap, Assassin's Will, Funnel x 3, Blockade, Assassin's Will, swap. Every other, reapply buffs and do just 1 funnel. Drop Meteor/Destro/Soul Harvest when ready. 40k DPS, dead simple.
Stamblade: Trap, Hail, Caltrops, Poison Injection, swap, Incap, Assassin's Will, Rending Slashes, Surprise Attack x 3, Assassin's Will, Deadly Cloak, swap. Sprinkle in heavy attacks when needed. 43k+ DPS, dead simple.
Nightblades are not a worse version of a sorc. Did you forget to download the Morrowind patch? That's Homestead-era stuff.
I'd be bored to tears if that were my rotation. Sounds like you're playing magblade like a sorc tbh.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom1 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭OMG stop whining and just go play the game. I honestly don't see how you get anything done in game with as much time you spend on here bringing up unnecessary drama.
I bring unneeded drama? Have you not seen the Nightblade whine threads back after back?
Answer this. And not just you, anyone here.
Vicious Death and Eye of the Storm got out of hand because of which class...? Actually, before Eye of the Storm. Just VD. It was because of which class nuking groups? Nightblades. Yep. That's right. Wasn't Sorcerer doing it. Damn sure wasn't DK's or Templars. And Wardens weren't out yet. It was Nightblades. Even had a term created just for them called "Bomb-Blades". They're still at an all-time high. And with Eye of the Storm also having been released, they really are everywhere. Yes or no?
Proc sets. Got out of hand, because of which class? Sure Sorcs got annoying with the whole Infernal Guardian, yes, yes. Very cute. But which class really took advantage of proc sets the most, and ultimately had proc sets hit hard? Nightblades. Why? Because Viper being able to crit alongside other proc sets was too much. And even with proc sets being able to crit, Selene and Viper on ProcBlades are still at beyond the standard play for StamBlades. Yes or no? And don't you dare sit there and lie, and say it was because of: StamBlades, StamDK's, StamPlars, or StamDens making the most out of the proc sets. Because they weren't. Were they using them? Absolutely. But were those classes anywhere NEAR as lethal with them as Nightblades? No.
You go get me ANY class that can nuke someone as fast as a Nightblade. Any class. Magicka or stamina. And is extremely beginner friendly while doing so. And I'll happily take back my words. Because I know for a fact, and I know that you know Nightblades excel at it and forever will. They are based on it.
Call it like you see it. Stop playing favorites. Deadass disgusted by it. Let me actually logout before I snap, and start wilding and cussing.
Lololol dude you are ridiculous.2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »Yeah OP you have no idea what you are talking about. At least READ those threads you are whining about?
No one is saying stamblades are weak. Yes, they oneshot. Well, it's not them, it's the procsets that oneshot. Every class specializing in stamina and wearing those sets can oneshot.
On the other hand, magicka nightblades - not so much. I got oneshotted by every class in a BG except for magicka NB. They just don't have the tools for that. And bringing up bombs and procs is not helping your case. Not everyone wants to gank, most players actually don't.
Now moving to PvE - NB is still in a bad spot. Once again, there is no reason to pick a NB if you can pick another DPS. They have no considerable group synergy. All the have is DPS, which is not the greatest. And to make up for the lack of synergy their DPS would need to be much higher than what other classes have.
Oh, and about maelstrom? VMA is absolutely irrelevant here, since it's solo content. It doesn't matter which class gets what score there - they only compete within the same class. Yes, NB have access to minor berserk that other classes don't have and have a little bit of self healing while attacking which is just enough for vMA. However, in group content minor berserk and heals are provided by healers anyway. And in PvP those hots won't save you from the burst damage.
Top raid groups are running multiple stam toons (2 in recent Hodor runs, pretty sure MC is running 4). Nightblades give the group Minor Savagery. So, NBs do actually provide some group utility. And magblades have off heals via their spammable, which is really useful especially up top in HoF.
Magblades have excellent DPS (no problem hitting 40k self-buffed on the skeleton with no cheese and inferno wall), and stamblades have the best single-target DPS in the game (I've seen 48k solo on the skeleton).
And it is and always has been useful to have Minor Berserk 100% of the time because there are plenty of PvE fights that aren't pure stack and burn so you aren't standing in Combat Prayer the whole fight.
dont compare nb dps skeleton if you talking about nb in raids.....ns will have always the best ST dps in skeleton selfbuffed because of just minor bersek....take away it from nb or give minor berserk buff to other classes and you wont see more only nb the best in dps in skeleton lol
and then if youstarted abour raid dps then vompare it to other raid's dps other classes which Im sure will not only get similiar dps to nb but some classes will without bigger problem (easier rotation etc) get higher dps and magnb is the hardest dps rotation as I remember because his every almost every dot have different duration time and you need to have perfect rotaton to achieve very good dps while at other clasess...almost every dont have same duration, easier to learn rotation and less problematic rotation with better damage ofc in raid group1 -
Bonzodog01✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
It's not a struggle to stay alive on a stam NB in any content, honestly.
With Mirage + Shadow Barrier you're hitting 19-20k resistance in medium armor, with Major Evasion, and Deadly Cloak for 25% AoE mitigation.
Don't feel squishy at all, even in vHoF.
Stam NB - suggests using Magicka skills.
No, sorry, almost the entire Shadow tree is useless to a Stam NB.
MY Stam NB has <10K Magicka, using any of these skills would drain it immediately.Xbox One - EU - EP/DCTrying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 20150 -
Kihamai✭✭✭✭Bonzodog01 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »
It's not a struggle to stay alive on a stam NB in any content, honestly.
With Mirage + Shadow Barrier you're hitting 19-20k resistance in medium armor, with Major Evasion, and Deadly Cloak for 25% AoE mitigation.
Don't feel squishy at all, even in vHoF.
Stam NB - suggests using Magicka skills.
No, sorry, almost the entire Shadow tree is useless to a Stam NB.
MY Stam NB has <10K Magicka, using any of these skills would drain it immediately.
Surprise Attack is stamina and can be used.Edited by Kihamai on July 15, 2017 9:22AMpc na | trash tier2 -
Bonzodog01✭✭✭✭✭Bonzodog01 wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »
It's not a struggle to stay alive on a stam NB in any content, honestly.
With Mirage + Shadow Barrier you're hitting 19-20k resistance in medium armor, with Major Evasion, and Deadly Cloak for 25% AoE mitigation.
Don't feel squishy at all, even in vHoF.
Stam NB - suggests using Magicka skills.
No, sorry, almost the entire Shadow tree is useless to a Stam NB.
MY Stam NB has <10K Magicka, using any of these skills would drain it immediately.
Surprise Attack is stamina and can be used.
Yeah, I know, Surprise attack is my main spammable. But thats why I said almost. Xbox One - EU - EP/DCTrying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 20150