They made me change my name?

  • Keep_Door
    Keep_Door
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol my sorcs name is Eat your khajiit. Nothing implyed there ;)
  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    Keep_Door wrote: »
    Lol my sorcs name is Eat your khajiit. Nothing implyed there ;)

    Lmao dude best comment
    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Kay1
    Kay1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    This post has been removed.

    Hey, you got me.. maybe he got permission from [snip], I don't know. Isn't [snip] connected to ZOS in some ways, shape, or form.. I don't know. However, look at the last sentence of 2.2 below. This is taken/copied verbatim from ZOS's code of conduct posting.


    2. Behavior

    2.1 You may not create an account name, persona or avatar that is in any way racially or ethnically defamatory, sexually graphic, hateful, and excretory in nature. You will not reference or claim affiliation to any hate groups. Any other names, text or chat that ZeniMax considers offensive is also in violation of the Agreement including the Code of Conduct.

    2.2 You may not create any name, text or chat that negatively references a 'Protected Category' under Federal or Maryland State law. These include any name, text or chat which references or includes Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy or Gender. You may not create an account name that is defamatory, impersonates or attempts to defame the reputation of another account holder, an employee of ZeniMax, property of ZeniMax, or ZeniMax and/or its affiliates.


    Wrobel can't handle the truth they removed my post :joy:

    Stop nerfing solo PvP Wrobel and I will love you again
    K1 The Big Monkey
  • SJD_Phoenix
    SJD_Phoenix
    ✭✭✭
    My magicka Warden is called "Wrobel stole my wallet"
  • notimetocare
    notimetocare
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingJ wrote: »
    There a guy on Xbox who Gamer tag Wrobel.A guild mate Character name Wrobel deez nuts.I dont understand why yours so bad.

    ZoS can't change a gamer tag
  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Wróbel is a common Polish last name that translates to Sparrow. One of Eric Wrobel's ancestors probably came from there. Last time I checked, Zenimax didn't have a monopoly on common bird names. It isn't impossible that someone would actually use that word by accident, I've met a few people in ESO with distinctly Polish character and account names.
  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Да уж... Тут недавно была темка, автору которой на почту пришло письмо от Zenimax Online (или как-то так), в котором какой-то тролль грозил ему баном от лица компании. Получается, использовать Zenimax в имени можно, а Wrobelz - нельзя.
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
    Me is russian little bad in english :b
  • stewhead2ub17_ESO
    stewhead2ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    This is one stupid thread that has gone on too long. Bottom line is it is THEIR game. They can dictate name changes as they see fit. I don't believe for one second that OP's name was coincidental. Pick a new name or move on to another game.
  • tommalmm
    tommalmm
    ✭✭✭
    Rosveen wrote: »
    Wróbel is a common Polish last name that translates to Sparrow. One of Eric Wrobel's ancestors probably came from there. Last time I checked, Zenimax didn't have a monopoly on common bird names. It isn't impossible that someone would actually use that word by accident, I've met a few people in ESO with distinctly Polish character and account names.

    So very true. The name is so common in fact, that right now there is a Wróbel sitting next to me, I know two others and neither are related in any way.
    Eremith wrote: »
    Да уж... Тут недавно была темка, автору которой на почту пришло письмо от Zenimax Online (или как-то так), в котором какой-то тролль грозил ему баном от лица компании. Получается, использовать Zenimax в имени можно, а Wrobelz - нельзя.

    Was it in game mail? I really doubt it (even if, I'm quite sure they've banned the guy, not forced to change the name). When it comes to real life e-mails, they're still way too easy to impersonate/fake because of the way protocol works and the way admins commonly ignore security issues (misconfiguration, like soft fail spf, lack of dkim or any other mail domain protection, let alone any type of signing).

  • MarzAttakz
    MarzAttakz
    ✭✭✭✭
    lol its my first day on the forum and i am low CP level and havent played this game for very long. I didnt care at all about who developers were until today haha.

    My young friend (game-age-wise) you will soon learn to love or hate the name, I'm so very sorry it is somehow related to you, I sincerely hope you have the grit to overcome the challenge.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PC EU
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Qura Scura | Altmer | MagBlade
    Lhylyth | Breton | MagPlar
    Nhynyth | Khajiit | MagDK
    Ghwynyth | Dunmer | MagSorc
    Loots-All-Urns | Argonian | MagDen
    Shades-Of-Gray | Argonian | StamDK
    Or'Chastration | Orc | StamSorc
    Little Miss Famished | Orc | StamCro
    Fhane Sharog | Orc | StamDen
    Dead Moons Rising | Khajiit | StamBlade
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    This is one stupid thread that has gone on too long. Bottom line is it is THEIR game. They can dictate name changes as they see fit. I don't believe for one second that OP's name was coincidental. Pick a new name or move on to another game.

    IK its their game and i had no problem with changing the name, all i wanted to find out was why they made me change my name, thats it.


    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    MarzAttakz wrote: »
    lol its my first day on the forum and i am low CP level and havent played this game for very long. I didnt care at all about who developers were until today haha.

    My young friend (game-age-wise) you will soon learn to love or hate the name, I'm so very sorry it is somehow related to you, I sincerely hope you have the grit to overcome the challenge.

    Hsha
    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    tommalmm wrote: »
    Eremith wrote: »
    Да уж... Тут недавно была темка, автору которой на почту пришло письмо от Zenimax Online (или как-то так), в котором какой-то тролль грозил ему баном от лица компании. Получается, использовать Zenimax в имени можно, а Wrobelz - нельзя.

    Was it in game mail? I really doubt it (even if, I'm quite sure they've banned the guy, not forced to change the name). When it comes to real life e-mails, they're still way too easy to impersonate/fake because of the way protocol works and the way admins commonly ignore security issues (misconfiguration, like soft fail spf, lack of dkim or any other mail domain protection, let alone any type of signing).

    Yes, it was in-game mail from 'Zenimax_Online'.
    Here is that thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358899/is-this-a-real-ban-warning-from-zos/p1
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
    Me is russian little bad in english :b
  • Idinuse
    Idinuse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Нет, ты не можешь. Проверьте этот запрет ...
    Just want to confirm this is not a legitimate message from us, and we are taking care of the sender...

    WOjy315.gif
    (Просто хочу подтвердить, что это не законное сообщение от нас, и мы заботимся о отправителе ...)
    <3 Google Translate sometimes :D
    Edited by Idinuse on July 14, 2017 4:12PM
    Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?
  • Artis
    Artis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.
  • Ermiq
    Ermiq
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Idinuse wrote: »
    Нет, ты не можешь. Проверьте этот запрет ...
    Just want to confirm this is not a legitimate message from us, and we are taking care of the sender...

    WOjy315.gif
    (Просто хочу подтвердить, что это не законное сообщение от нас, и мы заботимся о отправителе ...)
    <3 Google Translate sometimes :D

    The truth is, if that guy didn't send those letters he wouldn't be banned. He was banned because he was reported.
    OP here didn't such things and I doubt that someone reported his nickname (well, maybe Wrobel himself would do this :wink: ).
    I mean, that guy with Zenimax nickname would be still playing, because it seems like noone going to check user names in ESO when someone creates new account.
    One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
    Me is russian little bad in english :b
  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    Artis wrote: »
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.

    If you are from that area you would know, sorry bud cant help you
    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    Artis wrote: »
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.

    Wrobelz-Rubels
    pronounce them to yourself in english a couple of times it might get to your head this way.
    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I love ESO and the company that makes it and the new stuff they are coming up with but I got an in-game mail telling me that I am required to change my name. Apparently I can not have aa name "Wrobelz". Could I just please get an explanation why? lol
    Here is a link to the email that I got: https://gyazo.com/31dfe813668798a23a7555d2a10c7fa8

    T-bag any sorcs?
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wait referencing pregnancy in a character name is a breach of the rules?

    WHY?

    is this connected in anyway to the fact that everywhere you turn (in game) there are cradles... but no babies!

    PS im kinda surprised i havent been forced to change any of my character names!
    Edited by bebynnag on July 14, 2017 7:45PM
  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    wait referencing pregnancy in a character name is a breach of the rules?

    WHY?

    is this connected in anyway to the fact that everywhere you turn (in game) there are cradles... but no babies!

    PS im kinda surprised i havent been forced to change any of my character names!
    Negatively referencing pregnancy.
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rosveen wrote: »
    wait referencing pregnancy in a character name is a breach of the rules?

    WHY?

    is this connected in anyway to the fact that everywhere you turn (in game) there are cradles... but no babies!

    PS im kinda surprised i havent been forced to change any of my character names!
    Negatively referencing pregnancy.

    ok why is negativley refrencing pregnancy a breach of the rules.

    Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin or Gender. these are things that are fundemental to a persons identity, being pregnant is the act or reproduction.... dont get why its a banable offence

    i am now having to reconsider making an argonian called Survived-Abortion (huge Marilyn Manson fan)!


  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Megabear wrote: »
    Who the hell is Wrobel.

    Eric Wrobel, Lead PvP designer

    Lead Combat Designer. Lead PvP Designer is Brian Wheeler.

    So wait, if I can't make a Wheeler name as a joke to Joey Wheeler? The Red-Eyes Black Dragon guy with Flame Swordsman. I would name a DragonKnight something with Wheeler in the name, and have him wear the duelist title. :trollface:
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on July 14, 2017 8:30PM
  • Bouldercleave
    Bouldercleave
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭

    i am now having to reconsider making an argonian called Survived-Abortion (huge Marilyn Manson fan)!


    Yes, you should reconsider that.
  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Rosveen wrote: »
    wait referencing pregnancy in a character name is a breach of the rules?

    WHY?

    is this connected in anyway to the fact that everywhere you turn (in game) there are cradles... but no babies!

    PS im kinda surprised i havent been forced to change any of my character names!
    Negatively referencing pregnancy.

    ok why is negativley refrencing pregnancy a breach of the rules.

    Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin or Gender. these are things that are fundemental to a persons identity, being pregnant is the act or reproduction.... dont get why its a banable offence

    i am now having to reconsider making an argonian called Survived-Abortion (huge Marilyn Manson fan)!

    It's one of the categories protected against discrimination by federal law. The usual application of this law is to protect pregnant women in a work environment, but ZOS is being extra careful and uses the same guidelines to forbid any ingame discriminatory remarks.
  • Artis
    Artis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Artis wrote: »
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.

    If you are from that area you would know, sorry bud cant help you

    Ahahah GTFO no one is buying your crap.

    Роблс - Рублс. Nothing alike. O and У are two completely different sounds, when the only vowel sounds different the words don't even rhyme.

    Besides, if you were just trying to mimic "rubles", there would be absolutely no reason to add a silent "W" in the beginning. You could go with Robelz, for example.

    I call BS on this one. You are lying.
  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    i am now having to reconsider making an argonian called Survived-Abortion (huge Marilyn Manson fan)!


    Yes, you should reconsider that.

    oh you mis understand - i dismissed it as a name - i am now considering making a character on NA server with that name!

  • bebynnag
    bebynnag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rosveen wrote: »
    Rosveen wrote: »
    wait referencing pregnancy in a character name is a breach of the rules?

    WHY?

    is this connected in anyway to the fact that everywhere you turn (in game) there are cradles... but no babies!

    PS im kinda surprised i havent been forced to change any of my character names!
    Negatively referencing pregnancy.

    ok why is negativley refrencing pregnancy a breach of the rules.

    Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin or Gender. these are things that are fundemental to a persons identity, being pregnant is the act or reproduction.... dont get why its a banable offence

    i am now having to reconsider making an argonian called Survived-Abortion (huge Marilyn Manson fan)!

    It's one of the categories protected against discrimination by federal law. The usual application of this law is to protect pregnant women in a work environment, but ZOS is being extra careful and uses the same guidelines to forbid any ingame discriminatory remarks.

    ok then!

    the fedral law protecting the imprgnated in their work places - good!

    a game developer saying you cant refrence pregnancy when naming a character in an mmo - weird!

    but bk to the OP - since wrobel is a surname -
    i think its pathetic that anyone can be forced to change their character name just because one of the developers is called wrobel.

  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    Artis wrote: »
    Artis wrote: »
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.

    If you are from that area you would know, sorry bud cant help you

    Ahahah GTFO no one is buying your crap.

    Роблс - Рублс. Nothing alike. O and У are two completely different sounds, when the only vowel sounds different the words don't even rhyme.

    Besides, if you were just trying to mimic "rubles", there would be absolutely no reason to add a silent "W" in the beginning. You could go with Robelz, for example.

    I call BS on this one. You are lying.

    Слушай ты, пид**** **аный. Мне по*** че ты думаешь. Еслиты думаешь, что роблс и рублс не похожи, сходи к доктору, так же открой учебник Русского языка и посмотри, что в нем твою мать сказано, что У и О связаны и много кто их путает. ***арас **ядь Русский выучи

    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


  • Drpsychoball
    Drpsychoball
    ✭✭✭
    Artis wrote: »
    Artis wrote: »
    I think i explained it above but Wrobelz sounds like Rubles which currency in Russia (I am from Russia so i would know) and i changed some letters to make it sound coool

    Yeah no, not buying this. I'm from that area and speak the language too. Not similar, not something you'd come up with by accident.

    Wrobel is a Polish last name, that's all. Wrobelz doesn't sound like Rubles ( "o" vs "у") either. We all see what you are trying to do here.

    If you are from that area you would know, sorry bud cant help you

    Ahahah GTFO no one is buying your crap.

    Роблс - Рублс. Nothing alike. O and У are two completely different sounds, when the only vowel sounds different the words don't even rhyme.

    Besides, if you were just trying to mimic "rubles", there would be absolutely no reason to add a silent "W" in the beginning. You could go with Robelz, for example.

    I call BS on this one. You are lying.

    По*** мне че ты думаешь, ПО***
    -PC/NA/DC/AD-
    CP 350
    Drkrazyball - CP160 HealthDK [PVE]
    -Song of Lamae, Engine Guardian, Endurance, Alessia's Bulwark
    Revenganaut - CP160 StamSorc [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Velidreth
    Snikerdoodle - CP160 StamIna NB [PVE]
    -Twice Fanged Snake, Vicious Ophidian, Valkyn Skoria
    Sir-Garfield - CP160 StamIna NB [PVP]
    -Clever Alchemist, Spriggan, Valkyn Skoria, Spriggan
    Don-quixote - CP160 StamIna Thief [PVE]
    -Night's silence, Jailbreaker, Valkyn Skoria
    Wardens of Winterhold


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