#2 Should proc overperforming proc damage gear sets be removed/limited to PvE

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

I find over performing proc damage gear sets to promote a very cheap and narrow gameplay in order to be competitive in PvP.
Part #2 of the discussion

Challenges to PvE due to loss of dps can be addressed by the developers by reducing mobs/bosses HP to achieve desired balance.

Please visit these polls before casting your vote. They might change you opinion
#1 Poll Outhealing, Damage Shield spamming
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356269/1-should-heals-and-damage-shields-have-a-short-casting-duration#latest
#3 Executions
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356271/3-should-execution-abilities-be-nerfed-as-such#latest

Qbiken · June 2017

No because

No because that´s no the way ZOS works. They can´t seperate PvP and PvE, aside from the "Battle Spirit" buff you get when you´re in PvP areas. The best (but also the most time consuming) solution is to change each individual proc-set so that they aren´t overperforming. If ZOS have to nerf some popular sets to the ground then so be it, you can´t make all happy.

* No global fix will solve anyhing regarding proc-sets. It´s a lazy and bad solution.
* Proc-sets won´t be removed. It doesn´t matter how bad design you think it is, ZOS doesn´t remove sets that´s been added to the game. They either change how the sets works or the change the tooltips (or both in some cases) when trying to balance a certain set.
* Global cooldown is also a *** solution. When people suggest global cooldown they think about 3,4 maybe 5 overperforming damage sets (give or take a few sets, I don´t know all sets that are overperforming atm). People underestimate how many sets in this game that are considered proc-sets (both crafted and non-craftable). A global cooldown would destroy some of the sets and drasticly lower build-divirsity. With a global cooldown would have huge effects on PvE as well, and you would see a lot more of those "un-killable" builds in PvP.

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

Yes/yes, but

Qbiken wrote: »

No because that´s no the way ZOS works. They can´t seperate PvP and PvE, aside from the "Battle Spirit" buff you get when you´re in PvP areas. The best (but also the most time consuming) solution is to change each individual proc-set so that they aren´t overperforming. If ZOS have to nerf some popular sets to the ground then so be it, you can´t make all happy.

* No global fix will solve anyhing regarding proc-sets. It´s a lazy and bad solution.
* Proc-sets won´t be removed. It doesn´t matter how bad design you think it is, ZOS doesn´t remove sets that´s been added to the game. They either change how the sets works or the change the tooltips (or both in some cases) when trying to balance a certain set.
* Global cooldown is also a *** solution. When people suggest global cooldown they think about 3,4 maybe 5 overperforming damage sets (give or take a few sets, I don´t know all sets that are overperforming atm). People underestimate how many sets in this game that are considered proc-sets (both crafted and non-craftable). A global cooldown would destroy some of the sets and drasticly lower build-divirsity. With a global cooldown would have huge effects on PvE as well, and you would see a lot more of those "un-killable" builds in PvP.

@Qbiken
I am a PvP player, but since ESO PvP is so casually made, I enjoy mostly PvE. I don't want to ruin the only good aspect of the game.
Since ESO PvP is in such a mess don't you thing that it should be given more attention? That is what people try to do without ruining PvE
Here is a solution to PvE problems caused by PvP, and I'd like you to tell me what you don't like about it, so that I stop using it as an argument. @Qbiken -> Challenges to PvE doe to loss of DPS with the removal/nerfing of proc sets (overperforming) can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mobs/bosses HP in order to achieve desired balance. Please examine this argument with me, so that if it proves weak I will stop using it.

kuro-dono · June 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No because that´s no the way ZOS works. They can´t seperate PvP and PvE, aside from the "Battle Spirit" buff you get when you´re in PvP areas. The best (but also the most time consuming) solution is to change each individual proc-set so that they aren´t overperforming. If ZOS have to nerf some popular sets to the ground then so be it, you can´t make all happy.

* No global fix will solve anyhing regarding proc-sets. It´s a lazy and bad solution.
* Proc-sets won´t be removed. It doesn´t matter how bad design you think it is, ZOS doesn´t remove sets that´s been added to the game. They either change how the sets works or the change the tooltips (or both in some cases) when trying to balance a certain set.
* Global cooldown is also a *** solution. When people suggest global cooldown they think about 3,4 maybe 5 overperforming damage sets (give or take a few sets, I don´t know all sets that are overperforming atm). People underestimate how many sets in this game that are considered proc-sets (both crafted and non-craftable). A global cooldown would destroy some of the sets and drasticly lower build-divirsity. With a global cooldown would have huge effects on PvE as well, and you would see a lot more of those "un-killable" builds in PvP.

@Qbiken
I am a PvP player, but since ESO PvP is so casually made, I enjoy mostly PvE. I don't want to ruin the only good aspect of the game.
Since ESO PvP is in such a mess don't you thing that it should be given more attention? That is what people try to do without ruining PvE
Here is a solution to PvE problems caused by PvP, and I'd like you to tell me what you don't like about it, so that I stop using it as an argument. @Qbiken -> Challenges to PvE doe to loss of DPS with the removal/nerfing of proc sets (overperforming) can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mobs/bosses HP in order to achieve desired balance. Please examine this argument with me, so that if it proves weak I will stop using it.

you dont understand eso community very well GeorgeBlack.

they want to keep cheesing so they feel godmode or they can solo stuff and think that omfg i am op i killed this mega boss or i soloed this group of ppl on my own. ppl have no honour, ppl have no pride in themself, ppl just have poor egos which they try to boost via cheesing and some ppl enjoy griefing/trolling with passion.

obviously not everyone is like that, but after following these forums for 3 year its pretty obvious that vast majority of forum warriors love their cheese and salt.

salt mining/griefing/trolling is modern life indicator to describe how happy / unhappy people are.

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

Yes/yes, but

kuro-dono wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No because that´s no the way ZOS works. They can´t seperate PvP and PvE, aside from the "Battle Spirit" buff you get when you´re in PvP areas. The best (but also the most time consuming) solution is to change each individual proc-set so that they aren´t overperforming. If ZOS have to nerf some popular sets to the ground then so be it, you can´t make all happy.

* No global fix will solve anyhing regarding proc-sets. It´s a lazy and bad solution.
* Proc-sets won´t be removed. It doesn´t matter how bad design you think it is, ZOS doesn´t remove sets that´s been added to the game. They either change how the sets works or the change the tooltips (or both in some cases) when trying to balance a certain set.
* Global cooldown is also a *** solution. When people suggest global cooldown they think about 3,4 maybe 5 overperforming damage sets (give or take a few sets, I don´t know all sets that are overperforming atm). People underestimate how many sets in this game that are considered proc-sets (both crafted and non-craftable). A global cooldown would destroy some of the sets and drasticly lower build-divirsity. With a global cooldown would have huge effects on PvE as well, and you would see a lot more of those "un-killable" builds in PvP.

@Qbiken
I am a PvP player, but since ESO PvP is so casually made, I enjoy mostly PvE. I don't want to ruin the only good aspect of the game.
Since ESO PvP is in such a mess don't you thing that it should be given more attention? That is what people try to do without ruining PvE
Here is a solution to PvE problems caused by PvP, and I'd like you to tell me what you don't like about it, so that I stop using it as an argument. @Qbiken -> Challenges to PvE doe to loss of DPS with the removal/nerfing of proc sets (overperforming) can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mobs/bosses HP in order to achieve desired balance. Please examine this argument with me, so that if it proves weak I will stop using it.

you dont understand eso community very well GeorgeBlack.

they want to keep cheesing so they feel godmode or they can solo stuff and think that omfg i am op i killed this mega boss or i soloed this group of ppl on my own. ppl have no honour, ppl have no pride in themself, ppl just have poor egos which they try to boost via cheesing and some ppl enjoy griefing/trolling with passion.

obviously not everyone is like that, but after following these forums for 3 year its pretty obvious that vast majority of forum warriors love their cheese and salt.

salt mining/griefing/trolling is modern life indicator to describe how happy / unhappy people are.

@kuro-dono

Nobody in the internet can stop me from posting. I can always discuss. My aim is to make the game better. These people are not my audience. They don't repressed the greater amount of online gamers. Not even close. I am looking for logical people to further discussions. The problems is some people that have different opinions that the forum majority tent to stop joining the forums and discussing the game due to grief. Online trolls feel good about that. They don't realize that without ongoing discussion about the game, the game will lose.
I'd also like to believe (never stop dreaming) that ZOS does take in consideration some Topics on the forums.

People used to try to give me grief when I wanted:
Heavy armor buff
Shorter animation to Flurry to make it PvP relevant
Longer duration of Major Brutality from Flying Dagger
Fiery animations for stamDKs instead of vomit when they changed them in DB

Gonna keep discussing stuff which I think that need work. No bias. Ty for your supportive comment

Danksta · June 2017

Yes/yes, but

Realistically, they won't be removed. I like the ideas of either turning the damage into a DoT or putting a universal cooldown on proc set damage. I prefer the coolodwn, making it not beneficial to stack proc sets, which I think is their major issue.

Rickter · June 2017

Yes/yes, but

I am in favor of a cooldown on proc sets as well. but i voted for them to be completely removed because honestly I'd rather have completely removed if the cool downs cant be implemented.

Beardimus · July 2017

Yes/yes, but

100% yes, agree with you here. Proc sets are stupid, take away skill and offer free damage no resource cost. They are also less realistic.

And in PvP there is a huge Stamina bias with the popular prox setups.

Weopons or magic should kill people not Armour.

Original proc seta are fine its all the new OP ones. Dull as dishwater.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

Yes/yes, but

Beardimus wrote: »

100% yes, agree with you here. Proc sets are stupid, take away skill and offer free damage no resource cost. They are also less realistic.

And in PvP there is a huge Stamina bias with the popular prox setups.

Weopons or magic should kill people not Armour.

Original proc seta are fine its all the new OP ones. Dull as dishwater.

@Beardimus

It's all a chain. And they all start from the first bad designs.

Some people are of the opinion that everything is fine, and there shouldn't be a need for suggestions.
I find that outhealing/Damage shield stacking is too powerful and by adding a short casting time (something a bit longer than the current instacast) it would make the game better. Then in order to protect thos who got nerfed by this change I recommend that execution skills should not be spammable, but actually more "artistic" and more tactical.

Procs are a reaction that the Devs came up with in order to address the frustration of people that could not penetrate through outhealing/Damage Shielding.

I think that such changes would make the game THE PLACE IN WHICH PEOPLE GET GOOD, instead of all the out of game factors which make the top tier PvPers.

idk · July 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No because that´s no the way ZOS works. They can´t seperate PvP and PvE, aside from the "Battle Spirit" buff you get when you´re in PvP areas. The best (but also the most time consuming) solution is to change each individual proc-set so that they aren´t overperforming. If ZOS have to nerf some popular sets to the ground then so be it, you can´t make all happy.

* No global fix will solve anyhing regarding proc-sets. It´s a lazy and bad solution.
* Proc-sets won´t be removed. It doesn´t matter how bad design you think it is, ZOS doesn´t remove sets that´s been added to the game. They either change how the sets works or the change the tooltips (or both in some cases) when trying to balance a certain set.
* Global cooldown is also a *** solution. When people suggest global cooldown they think about 3,4 maybe 5 overperforming damage sets (give or take a few sets, I don´t know all sets that are overperforming atm). People underestimate how many sets in this game that are considered proc-sets (both crafted and non-craftable). A global cooldown would destroy some of the sets and drasticly lower build-divirsity. With a global cooldown would have huge effects on PvE as well, and you would see a lot more of those "un-killable" builds in PvP.

@Qbiken
I am a PvP player, but since ESO PvP is so casually made, I enjoy mostly PvE. I don't want to ruin the only good aspect of the game.
Since ESO PvP is in such a mess don't you thing that it should be given more attention? That is what people try to do without ruining PvE
Here is a solution to PvE problems caused by PvP, and I'd like you to tell me what you don't like about it, so that I stop using it as an argument. @Qbiken -> Challenges to PvE doe to loss of DPS with the removal/nerfing of proc sets (overperforming) can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mobs/bosses HP in order to achieve desired balance. Please examine this argument with me, so that if it proves weak I will stop using it.

you dont understand eso community very well GeorgeBlack.

they want to keep cheesing so they feel godmode or they can solo stuff and think that omfg i am op i killed this mega boss or i soloed this group of ppl on my own. ppl have no honour, ppl have no pride in themself, ppl just have poor egos which they try to boost via cheesing and some ppl enjoy griefing/trolling with passion.

obviously not everyone is like that, but after following these forums for 3 year its pretty obvious that vast majority of forum warriors love their cheese and salt.

salt mining/griefing/trolling is modern life indicator to describe how happy / unhappy people are.

@kuro-dono

Nobody in the internet can stop me from posting. I can always discuss. My aim is to make the game better. These people are not my audience. They don't repressed the greater amount of online gamers. Not even close. I am looking for logical people to further discussions. The problems is some people that have different opinions that the forum majority tent to stop joining the forums and discussing the game due to grief. Online trolls feel good about that. They don't realize that without ongoing discussion about the game, the game will lose.
I'd also like to believe (never stop dreaming) that ZOS does take in consideration some Topics on the forums.

People used to try to give me grief when I wanted:
Heavy armor buff
Shorter animation to Flurry to make it PvP relevant
Longer duration of Major Brutality from Flying Dagger
Fiery animations for stamDKs instead of vomit when they changed them in DB

Gonna keep discussing stuff which I think that need work. No bias. Ty for your supportive comment

You are absolutely correct that you have the right to express your views and opinions. However, so does everyone else. Just because they disagree does not mean their thoughts are not logical.

Expressing an opinion either way does not mean it is logical or lacks nor does it make them a troll.

A couple weeks ago Zos stated that they were planning to make changes with proc sets. I would expect they are looking more at the over performing changes.

IxskullzxI · July 2017

Cool down is the best option I think. Imo, stacking proc sets is the problem, not individual ones. There are a couple that could maybe toned down, but it's when someone hits you with one ability and you take 2-3 procs in damage as well. If they just individually tone down proc sets that won't fix people stacking them and you taking 10k instant damage.

Gederic · July 2017

No because

No they should be fixed, I've heard many solutions ranging from universal procs cool downs, to reduced damage or changing certain sets to dots etc. They don't need to be removed entirely, they need to be balanced.

First off the fundamental problem with this proposition is that ZOS has made it clear that they have no intention of seperating PvP and PvE in the manor that this suggestion would require. Secondly there are just better less drastic solutions. I'm all for a universal cooldown. It would make wearing three proc sets utterly useless but it would still allow those who need it the extra boost of damage from one proc set. The problem zenimax has with balancing is that they do it every few months and make huge changes instead of gradual adjustments. Don't let this be another one. I hate proc sets, and generally don't use them, but they can be balanced and work well in the game without being completely stripped from it.

Nihili · July 2017

#fuckprocs

Derra · July 2017

No because

Removing is never the answer. Rework them so they aren´t lost but no longer overperforming.

Sharee · July 2017

No because

Proc sets are a currently a problem, don't get me wrong, but removing them will reduce options, that's not good. There are lots of ways to make sure they fit in PvP without straight out removal.

Morgul667 · July 2017

No because

Id rework the few proc-sets that create trouble and that's it.

Ling · July 2017

the only solution what would work is that zos makes the proc sets affected from "battle spirit" (example: proc sets make -50% dmg), so for pve player it would be no change and pvp player can not 1shot you anymore!

MaximillianDiE · July 2017

In a perfect world, yes but then they would also have to deal with the ridiculous amount of mitigation and healing in this game at the same time. Every patch is like a game of jenga where everytime they add or remove, nerf or buff parts of the game other parts fall down.

Waylander · July 2017

Problem with procs is stacking burst with little investment in weapon damage.

Proc sets don't over perform in PvE because burst doesn't matter in most pve content, damage over time matters.

Change the proc from dealing its damage in a burst to damage over time.

Without the burst there is counterplay in pvp.

Magus · July 2017

Yes/yes, but

They already can separate it. Case in point, Vicious Death only procs on players not NPCs. You could very easily make viper/red mountain/valkyn/etc only proc on NPCS and not players. Those are pretty bad sets for PVE anyway but they could easily separate the gear procs between PVE and PVP if they really wanted to. VD already does it.

Angi · July 2017

just send to *** off selene, viper , velidreth and tremorscale ,i dont care about the rest

Biro123 · July 2017

This thread still going? Zos have already mentioned more balancing to them, in the next patch, which hits pts very soon... Which means that whatever changes they are doing were decided some time ago, built internally, tested internally and are now being readied for release...

Basically, they've already made up their mind and no discussion here will change it.

Hempyre · July 2017

Nope.

Proc sets are the only thing that can burst down the super healer ***.

Heal builds are broken af. When they get that crap under control then they can turf proc sets.

Just sucks for those stuck in the middle.

Rikkof · July 2017

Yes/yes, but

I think they are already planning on nerfing some of proc stamina builds, after their last talk show
All you see in PVP right now are OP Gankers sporting viper -tremoir-skoria.....NB who kill you in the stun even before you have time to break free XD
I think all the stamina proc sets should get same treatment as TBS and BWS

Grand_Jury · July 2017

No because

Honestly, I don't even understand why this is a question. ZOS will never limit the use of an item for use in one segment of the game or the other. Also, why throw them into PVE? Proc sets do terrible damage in PVE and your solution seems like PVE is going to be used as some sort of dumping ground for proc sets.

The Elder Scrolls Online

#2 Should proc overperforming proc damage gear sets be removed/limited to PvE

#2 Should proc overperforming proc damage gear sets be removed/limited to PvE 56 votes