#1 Should Heals and Damage Shields have a short casting duration?

GeorgeBlack

I find that players can out heal/out mitigate incoming damage by spamming heals/damage shields
There are ways to penetrate such defensive targets. This is part #1 of the discussion.

On that note the medium armor skill Evasion and it's morphs should be removed from the game. Passive damage avoidance is very bad in a game which has tools such as Blocking, rolldodging, teleporting, creating distance from incoming attack.
Passive damage avoidance should be a very unique characteristic of a Rogue class such as staminaNB, at the very least.


I play staminaDK, nothing personal against the other builds. Personal opinion on how combat can be improved.

please visit these Polls for a before casting your vote. You might change your mind if you combine them all together.

#2 Poll Procs
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356270/2-should-proc-overperforming-proc-damage-gear-sets-be-removed-limited-to-pve#latest

#3 Poll Executions
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356271/3-should-execution-abilities-be-nerfed-as-such#latest

Yuke

Yes/yes, but

Healing is super weak this patch if you dont use healing springs. Healing springs is the only non-ult heal that has to be nerfed.

Izaki

Yuke wrote: »

Healing is super weak this patch if you dont use healing springs. Healing springs is the only non-ult heal that has to be nerfed.

Nerf Healing Springs for PvE? Thanks.

Yuke

Yes/yes, but

no, im talking about pvp obviously as this is the alliance war forums. Healing springs need additional restriction applied by battle spirit buff.

-> Max number of targets and stacking of multiple

Same goes for purge and rapid

Ragnaroek93

No because

Please not. Cast times are just super annyoing and that would make the game way less smooth.

GeorgeBlack

Yes/yes, but

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Please not. Cast times are just super annyoing and that would make the game way less smooth.

How so? I'd say it would make combat more meaningful, instead of spam spam spam

lolo_01b16_ESO

No because

So if your enemy can interrupt every shield / heal you use combat would be more meaningful? Good luck fighting against some puncture->bash stamsorc.

I expect the only consequece would be, that burst would become even more important (if you can't use heals, you need to kill your enemy before you need heals) or zergs would become bigger, so people could hide behind others to not get interrupted.

GeorgeBlack

Yes/yes, but

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

So if your enemy can interrupt every shield / heal you use combat would be more meaningful? Good luck fighting against some puncture->bash stamsorc.

I expect the only consequece would be, that burst would become even more important (if you can't use heals, you need to kill your enemy before you need heals) or zergs would become bigger, so people could hide behind others to not get interrupted.

@lolo_01b16_ESO
I did not say anything about interrupting.
Please visit the other 2 related Polls in regards to combat and Burst. They are about procs and executions. if you are still conserved tell us why.

Dyride

No because

Healing Springs already has a Target cap of 6. Purge also has a Target cap. Rapids is so buggy right now, it drops from sneezing.

Joy_Division

No because

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I play staminaDK, nothing personal against the other builds.

t's not personal, it's a bias. You don't like not being able to burst down those pesky sorcs and magplars so you want their defenses nerfed, but not your dodge-roll.

GeorgeBlack

Yes/yes, but

Joy_Division wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I play staminaDK, nothing personal against the other builds.

t's not personal, it's a bias. You don't like not being able to burst down those pesky sorcs and magplars so you want their defenses nerfed, but not your dodge-roll.

@Joy_Division

Here's what a logical person would do. They would ask "why are you making these suggestions?"
You just went ahead and asumed that I had an ulterior motivation.
And what you say if I told you that I don't run the Shuffle rolldodge vigor meta?

No my aim is to improve the combat system. Going from 0 HP to full HP in 2 seconds is from. Permanent active Damage Shield is wrong.

Now look at #2 Poll and #3 Poll if you think that i want to nerf defensive mechanisms to be able to burst targets. And come back

Danksta

No because

If it were for PvP only I'd be open to it possibly depending on it's implementation, but ZoS has mostly refused to balance PvP and PvE separately to this point.

timidobserver

No because

Cast times are unacceptable. It's why no one uses healing ritual.

GeorgeBlack

Yes/yes, but

If the danger of PvE killing you before you manage to cast a shield/heal is so great then Developers should reduce PvE mobs/bosses power.
Most mmorpgs have casting times on skills and I must say their dungeon mechanics are a lot harder than Eso. They still survive.
Without PvP fixes the game will never be improved. PvE is easier to fix.

GeorgeBlack

Yes/yes, but

timidobserver wrote: »

Cast times are unacceptable. It's why no one uses healing ritual.

Your statement is unacceptable without going into details. You gave us your vote. Plz be constructive now.

kuro-dono

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cast times are unacceptable. It's why no one uses healing ritual.

Your statement is unacceptable without going into details. You gave us your vote. Plz be constructive now.

its all because of animation cancelling. templar kit isnt very convenient for animation cancelling in very active environment, expecially the sort where you combat other players. channeling abilities restricts your actions quite lot while nightblades and sorcs have it fecking easy mode when they have gazillion amount of things going at sametime when they wreck your arses. for that reason, magica templar is mostly used in combat as an healbot and then jesus beaming nasty and pesky targets. i mean jesus crist jesus beam is joke. whenever at cyro i just cry inside when i have on close range 2-10 ppl hitting me and one uses jesus beam, i just cant resist and go and bash the guy. i would like to shout to him aswell : "Is that your idea of smart move? jesus beaming when the target is couple meters away from you.

ppl talk about animation cancelling that it doesnt bypass cooldowns and such, but here is the funny thing> you can activate variety of actions pretty much same time and they land/ do the effect same time, while, magicatemplar cant really do anything else except healing springs and breath of life spam with barswap or blockcast.

IF. cast times were added into nightblades and sorcs setups similarly, then suddenly magica templar pvp would not sound so bad.

ps : i noticed this annoying weird change on my stamina templar when i used to spam my light attack button while jabbing my life away. ANYWAY, i used on my gear setup essence thief, set that was wonderful to me. while jabbing, i spammed the light button and pew pew! my set proced and dropped me runes all over the place. then suddenly zenimax made change somewhere and ewww no more runes for me while jabbing. i played hours after hours but no runes appeared. so i had to actually stop jabbing to do light attacks to get again runes, then continue jabbing. sad times

timidobserver

No because

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Cast times are unacceptable. It's why no one uses healing ritual.

Your statement is unacceptable without going into details. You gave us your vote. Plz be constructive now.

Enough details were given. Cast times are bad. Find a new nerf approach.

CyrusArya

No because its a terrible idea.

The entire point of heals and shields is to mitigate damage. If you struggle to kill people, I suggest you try building for more damage before suggesting sweeping and unnecessary game changes. ESO is dynamic and engaging, thats what makes it good. Your ideas would make for a dull and static game.

kuro-dono

CyrusArya wrote: »

No because its a terrible idea.

The entire point of heals and shields is to mitigate damage. If you struggle to kill people, I suggest you try building for more damage before suggesting sweeping and unnecessary game changes. ESO is dynamic and engaging, thats what makes it good. Your ideas would make for a dull and static game.

this here is the reason why we got these unkillable tanks and and monster 3 set procblades. EVERYTHING started from unkillable targets, zenimax try fix it with procblades, this all hurts normal beings who dont cheese around.

similarly how stupid idea was from zenimax to fix ppl blobbing, by adding detonation bomb. they try fight fire with fire and it just keeps piling up and fails BADLY.

1000 dollar question!!! which set was meant to counter unkillable sorcs? yeah. well done you. again stupid hardcounter which just ended up hurting normal players.

kuro-dono

i find it very sad when ppl talk about pew pew tards need more buff to be more competive in pve, but sadly, that would make them same pew pew tards just stupidly op in pvp. ppl dont pay attension to the both side of the coin. no compromises, just cheesing and griefing.

Irylia

Mag sorcs would become extinct.
Shields scale poorly vs increasing number of enemies. Adding a cast time would guarantee they could never leave shield bar until they ultimately died. There ward would also not be able to mitigate long enough for the player to swap bars. Do damage. Swap back and cast time another ward.

Wards for sure would need to be revisited and changed if that implementation were the case.
HoTs with rng chance is where it's at because Stam classes also have outside options for mitigating or negating incoming damage on top of what I already mentioned.

kuro-dono

Irylia wrote: »

Mag sorcs would become extinct.
Shields scale poorly vs increasing number of enemies. Adding a cast time would guarantee they could never leave shield bar until they ultimately died. There ward would also not be able to mitigate long enough for the player to swap bars. Do damage. Swap back and cast time another ward.

Wards for sure would need to be revisited and changed if that implementation were the case.
HoTs with rng chance is where it's at because Stam classes also have outside options for mitigating or negating incoming damage on top of what I already mentioned.

that there would make minmaxing less trouble in the whole game. magica sorcs, they are super mobile, super dps and highly resistant and their grief/trolling rate is high as ***. its your own choise if you want to trigger herd of zombies to chase you and then you dare to whine about it? sounds very entitled. this is fecking MMO not solo vs rest of the world, or aoe choo choos vs rest of the world.

that means that magica sorcs would have to balance their kit little bit more! NO MORE GOD MODE OMFG I AM IN TEARS MOMMY I CANT ANYMORE SOLO REST OF THE WORLD AND LOOK LIKE POPSTAR.

all thats left to fix here then is nightblades and we have almost balanced pvp environment.
i mean unkillable tanks should get fixed by this fix aswell right?

NordJitsu

No because

Damage shields need to be instant cast to be worth a damn.

Jawasa

No because

Just no you dont seem to understand eso combat at all. We want it to be fast and Intresting Thats why there are no cd on skills and you can cancel animations. In this fast combat casting time is a huge nerf and most skills that have a cast timer are useless.

kuro-dono

Jawasa wrote: »

Just no you dont seem to understand eso combat at all. We want it to be fast and Intresting Thats why there are no cd on skills and you can cancel animations. In this fast combat casting time is a huge nerf and most skills that have a cast timer are useless.

this is the reason why magica templar is either trollbar or healpot. not anything between. and stamina templar...? ha ha haa.

Jawasa

No because

@kuro-dono dude is there anything in this game you dont call chees? Two hander is chees, bow is chees and dw aswell if one should look at your post history. Sorcs also because you cant kill them.

kuro-dono

aww you are cute. i think you dont see past your own nose and your nightblade/sorc.

there is no effing balance anywhere, unkillable monsters, proctards and aoe choo choo:s girefing non stop ppl, do you see balance there somewhere? all you get to hear from others is, just stay away, ignore them. yeah good game.

ps: cyrodiil been continuously going downhill, i hope you can see atleast that? less campaigns with each passing year and less and less updates and the forum rage getting worse.

Danksta

No because

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

If the danger of PvE killing you before you manage to cast a shield/heal is so great then Developers should reduce PvE mobs/bosses power.
Most mmorpgs have casting times on skills and I must say their dungeon mechanics are a lot harder than Eso. They still survive.
Without PvP fixes the game will never be improved. PvE is easier to fix.

Some trial mechanics require block casting, specifically for the support roles. Block casting doesn't work on skills that have a cast time.

In my opinion, one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) improvements for the game would be to balance PvP and PvE separately. It's pretty obvious and I'm clueless to why ZoS refuses to do so.

RinaldoGandolphi

yeah this would not be a good idea

These changes would most certainly tip things even farther in favor of those who outnumber you.

ESO combat isn't perfect, balance still needs some wrk too, but this isn't the way to go about it

Jawasa

No because

@kuro-dono actually i main a la templar but i play all classes at Max lvl. I'd say if you removed procs this patch would be one of the better. sadly nb proc builds are ruining solo play in cyro because you allways get hit by 2 from stealth. But please show me a non chees build. Because to me it seems that you think everything is chees.

IlCanis_LupuslI

No because

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I find that players can out heal/out mitigate incoming damage by spamming heals/damage shields
There are ways to penetrate such defensive targets. This is part #1 of the discussion.

On that note the medium armor skill Evasion and it's morphs should be removed from the game. Passive damage avoidance is very bad in a game which has tools such as Blocking, rolldodging, teleporting, creating distance from incoming attack.
Passive damage avoidance should be a very unique characteristic of a Rogue class such as staminaNB, at the very least.


I play staminaDK, nothing personal against the other builds. Personal opinion on how combat can be improved.

please visit these Polls for a before casting your vote. You might change your mind if you combine them all together.

#2 Poll Procs
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356270/2-should-proc-overperforming-proc-damage-gear-sets-be-removed-limited-to-pve#latest

#3 Poll Executions
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356271/3-should-execution-abilities-be-nerfed-as-such#latest

One word= OBLIVIONDAMAGE